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Wow, Echo! That is great news! It must have felt so good to be validated like this, and to know you can go forward from here. I'm really happy for you. And who knows how many other of his (present and future) patients you've helped by speaking out and influencing him to learn how to handle transference issues. Good job!

SG

Hi Echo,
That's awesome! It was very brave of you to speak up like that and I'm very impressed that your T did the work he needed to do to be able to help you heal. The fact that he was willing to admit to you that he felt like he messed up and that he values you as a patient because you challenge him are much more important qualities then what he knows about any one subject or problem. The relationship is solid and that is the most important part.

And I don't think you need to worry about him reading here. The similarities spring from the fact that he's telling the truth! So no worries! Although I'm flattered that you think I would be quotable.

AG

Echo, thanks for updating us and sharing your good news! I think you are awesome for being strong enough to speak your mind to your T, all 3 times! It is reassuring that he was willing to take your criticism non-defensively and learn from it, because now you know it is also safe to be honest with him in the future. And now you've helped him to not only better help you, but others as well. Good for you!!!

Hi echo
Best of luck with your new beggining with your T! It's good that things are taking better shape and you don't have be in pain and try to get him out of your head.
What happens next? I suppose that next the therapy takes on life of its own. I think things are getting more interesting next. Well, if living through your emotions and crying your eyes out (that's what I do) can be called interesting.
Anyway, good luck with your sessions. Keep posting with what happens next, cause I'm also kind of curious (if you don't mind)

Sorry Echo, I have been quite all over the shop recently and have missed out on posting here.

I'm so so happy for you and I am in utter awe of your bravery. It was so much more than I could do. Please keep us updated on how it goes but you've probably taught your T a lot through your strength and I hope he can continue learning from you and you him.

HB... welcome back. You have been missed! Hope all is well with you and you are all settled in again.

Echo...I'm glad you vented here because we do understand exactly how you are feeling. My T and I have so much in common and we have some wonderful conversations and I am so drawn to him. Now, that is not to say the he self-discloses to me, unless it's strictly related to my therapy and my benefit but I do know a lot about him. I am eternally frustrated that I did not meet him somewhere else in life, while in school, or at a cafe, or even the grocery store... but I didn't. And I often wonder if I had met him in those venues...would I have been so attracted to him? He is not my usual type that I fall for and so I have to think some of this is because of therapy. Because of the very intimate nature of therapy and of my being safe enough with him to tell him things I have never told anyone. And because I am his sole focus for those hours it makes everything, all my emotions and feelings, much more intense. I often wish we could be together in some alternate world so that it would not hurt anyone in this world, or cause him to violate his principles/morals. But alas, this cannot happen. What I try to do is find some peace and acceptance with all of my feelings for him, knowing that what he gives me is so much more than anyone ever has and that the time I DO have with him is very very special. I have his undivided attention. Most times this helps me to accept this situation. The one thing that I cannot accept at this point in therapy, is that one day ... eventually, I will have to leave him and not see him anymore. And that right now feels like death.

Don't know if I helped you but I think just writing and talking about it does make you feel somewhat better. There really is no magic answer. If there was, someone on here would know about it.

Hang in there.

TN

Hi Echo... I'm so glad that your session went well and that you wrote things down and shared them with your T! That is a huge step and you should be very proud of yourself. Most of us have those same feelings. I'm always telling my T that I know that he's sick of me, that I'm his "impossible" patient, that he wishes I could just go away, that I'm too much trouble etc. He just smiles at me and tells me that I'm very good at deciding for him how he feels LOL! And, of course, he assures me that none of this is true.

Those of us with disorganized attachment are always looking for ways and reasons to run from our Ts while at the same time longing for intimacy and closeness. This comes from having an abusive background where we cannot turn to our attachment figures because these are the very people who frighten us or appear frightened by our needs and so as children we run from them while at the same time needing them to survive. It's a horrible bind to be in and we take this into our therapy relationship with a T who becomes our attachment figure. Of course these behaviors are not necessary or productive in therapy but that is not so easy to change. I'm always looking for reasons to run away from my T and it happens when I feel like we are really getting closer or getting closer to some trauma from the past.

But each time I stay and face things and we talk about my impulses to run it gets a tiny bit easier for the next time. And in receiving a totally different reaction from my T than the one I got as a child helps to change those old tapes that are looping constantly in my head.

And you are definitely on the right track with your T. Good for you.

TN

Hi Echo,

I'm glad things are going a lot better for you...it's so nice to hear. I really hope it continues.

As for the father/transference issue...been there, done that, got the tshirt! It's an ongoing issue and it drives me mad too as I do see the connection emotionally but it's too hard to look at it. Plus the confusion of sexual attraction with childhood needs is just so hard to understand. I wish I could be left to my fantasies too.

Best of luck anyway and keep us updated

Mrs. P

Echo, I'm going to preface my remarks with the warning that you should take what I post next with a grain of salt since I am apparently quite delusional lately. But my suspicious mind would tell me that you didn't do anything wrong and it was your P who wasn't completely present for you. He started out the session looking like he'd been weeping. Maybe he had a difficult time pulling himself out of that emotion to really focus on you. That might also explain why he was just parroting you. Just one possible explanation, anyway. Hey, they're human too, unfortunately. You just might not have gotten your money's worth this session.

Hi Echo... sorry I haven't been around much lately, trying to work on some of my own issues with my T. But here are some of my thoughts about your session.

Men, in general, feel like they always have to "solve" our problems. They seem to believe that we are looking for specific solutions when what we really need is understanding, comfort, support and an empathic ear. We need to be heard and we need to feel that they hear us. Your T seemed to be upset about something before you arrived (you said he looked like he'd been crying) so I doubt this had anything to do with your behavior. Perhaps he was feeling inadequate to help you in the way he wants to. I know my T struggles with this because he is not used to dealing with trauma patients and at times I know he is at a loss of what to do for me or how to help me through something. What I find is that when he is just being himself (empathic, caring, kind, funny) that is all I need to help me. But I know he feels like he should be doing something more and that's when things between us break down. He starts moving around and trying things that make me feel like I'm in session with someone I don't even know! I keep reminding him that I need him to stay still while "I" move around (within the therapy) so that I can depend on him to be there and be consistent when I need him.

And I, too, have experienced those session that just seem to be "off" in some way. As if we are misattuned or disconnected somehow. This has always been temporary for me. But if it happens again or if you feel that he is not being attuned to your needs then you should talk to him about it and explain how you feel if you can.

I will tell you though that I offer a lot of feedback to my T... mostly because I know that he feels some frustration at not being more helpful to me. So I tell him what works, what I like and how I feel when he does certain things and what I need to feel better. Our relationship is quite collaborative. I bring him books and articles and we discuss them. I know it's supposed to be all about me and it is... just in a different way.

If your T is not experienced in treating patients with your specific issues, he may be feeling uncertain as to how to proceed and if he's a good, ethical and caring T he may be quite worried about inadvertently hurting you or causing you harm in some way and that's why he wants you to tell him what works for you.

I see this as being about him just having an off day and I'm pretty sure your next session will go differently. We all have our insecure moments because we are human and I think he was just having one of those days.

TN

Echo, just wanted to say that aside from the stuff with your T - I'm really sorry about what you are going through with your husband. It sounds awful - and like a serious 'issue'. I'm also sorry that your T didn't focus on it more, or help you to focus on it more (if that is deep down what you needed). I think if that was going on for me and my T wanted a whole lot of feedback about the session or her methods, I'd be p'ed off.

here's the thing, though... if what I was originally trying to deal with was an issue that I would rather 'switch off' on (and what you describe with your husband WOULD be for me), I'd probably let the distracting happen or encourage it (yup, for sure!). And then end up thinking about that a lot instead of thinking about the issue.

I really apologise if that's not what's going on with you - it may not be at all. But if it is, well, I hear you, and I am sorry that you are in the kind of pain that makes you want to avoid.

I don't have an experience of 'erotic transference' with a therapist myself. But unfortunately I have lots of experience with erotic transference with other people in my life. It is really closely connected to my desire to avoid and numb out things that are hurting me. Desire works great that way!! I can just conjure up an image and it floods me with lovely endorphins. Or nut away at the problems of this lovely endorphin-filled 'other' relationship. All-consuming, but meanwhile, the other problems....
Take care.
J

Echo in answer to your question....I never give him feedback in the same session. I'm too activated to even think straight usually! I will typically give him feedback in the next session, or some session later. I may give it to him via an email as well. For what it's worth, my T has no experience either with the erotic transference issue and we had a major disruption when I tried to tell him some of my feelings. I think he got scared and felt totally out of his element and became very defensive. I confronted him on it and we worked it out ... although it took time. It's not resolved by any means and I still have not told him the depth of my feelings for him but for now I think he's more comfortable chalking it up to "parental" feelings and my attachment issue and not as a love/erotic transference. So for now I'm going with that while I work on other issues.

If I were you I'd tell him that I would be able to email my thoughts/feedback to him once you had time to process what happened in the session. Immediate feedback is pretty hard to give in a therapy situation.

TN

Hi Echo,

On the one hand I'm so sorry that you are feeling so awful. On the other hand it sounds like the things you are recognizing in yourself are just so valuable.

This

quote:

But now I know that it is me trying to do everything right for another person, thinking I can somehow make them love me if only I'm good enough...

and this

quote:

Some of it is great material and has been rubbing off on me, but as long as I'm worrying about what he thinks of me, I'm never going to be honest about who I really am and I'm never going to get anywhere with this.

seem like they are powerful recognitions. They make me wonder - what would you do or say if you weren't worried about what he thinks of you? If you could be truly yourself?

I also wonder if transferring to someone else is what you feel is right for you? And if it is, does the impetus need to come from him? You seem to have a really clear idea of what is going on in the therapy, and it seems like you have felt several steps ahead of him at a few points. You seem to me to be right on the money with the "misconstruing" issue, and that makes me wonder if you are getting as much value as you could from this relationship.

I've been in therapy before where I felt like I was running rings around my T (she just didn't seem to GET the significance of stuff). In a way it was kind of useful still - just to be able to talk and let off steam. Now I think at a deeper level it reinforced my feeling that no one else can help me, I have to do everything myself.

I wonder what would have happened if I had had someone beside me who was really able to guide ME at that time, rather than me having to second guess everything & get it all right. I feel more like I have that now, and it feels much more healing.

Anyway, again I hope I'm not too far off on a tangent in relation to what you're saying. Ultimately I want to say you are worth a really strong, robust therapeutic relationship, especially when you are going through such heavy stuff. I hope that IF it's not available from your current P, that you will seek it out elsewhere.

J

ps I really hope you start feeling better soon.

echo, is it possible that you are feeling that way because you can't really bring your feelings to the session?
I understand that he didn't want to leave you alone after things between you and him got a bit more complicated than any of you expected. I understand that you are trying to get on with the therapy despite the "complication" but your therapy apparently is not about what happened between you and your T? It's has it's own agenda that you were going/hoping to complete.
Is it possible that it is so difficult now because you can't tell how you feel and what you would want from him, because it is/it seems not appropriate? You know that you can't go there and tell him how you love him, because you don't know how he will handle it?
I know that it is so hard to talk about love (transference, whatever) that is in general (or is supposed to be) one-sided. I'm still struggling a lot with it. Today I was rather staying not too close to my feelings. But to experience the acceptance of these feelings does change the shape of things. I know if I had to hide my feelings during the therapy I would feel humiliated and worthless, and wouldn't know what to do, to do things right.

I hope you won't give up completely on therapy, but will seek for somebody that can put things straight.

By the way, knowing that I may not express myself gently enough, I hope you don't find my reply upsetting.
Take care...