JM -

I don't think it's odd at all. I'm not really looking forward to seeing my T either, but I have a week and a day to go. I'm writing in my journal every day and there's no way it can all be covered in less than an hour!

I hope your appointment goes better than expected.

OW

Wow I didn't expect anyone to relate to that. I really thought that was out there. But my appt went pretty much as I expected. There was so much to catch up on it just wasn't fulfilling. You'd think I'd be so happy to see her and to bask in her presence. She was warm and caring but I felt ice cold and blah! But I am working on very little sleep and raging alcohol cravings.

Thanks for listening and replying OW. This is such a weird feeling at least I'm not totally alone with it. I don't even want to call her like I usually do. I didn't even want a hug today. I just walked past her and said see ya later. And I'm not even mad at her. The anger I feel has nothing to do with her, so it's weird. How many times have I used the word weird in this post? I digress.

Thanks again,
JM

JM, sorry your session wasn't good for you. It just makes it harder on us I think when sessions don't go well.

I was looking forward to seeing my T, but not really any more. I just have way too much going on right now, and I am scared that therapy is just going to bring up more "stuff", that I might not be able to handle right now.

Clarification: I just had a physical done with a battery of tests. I saw my Dr. on Monday and none of the test had come back yet. Today I get a phone call from Dr's office telling me I need to call them and make an appointment on Friday. They told me if everything came back fine that I wouldn't hear from them. So now I am just sitting and waiting and thinking of the worse.

Anymore stuff to deal with and I think I will lose it. So really not looking forward to seeing my T.

Kats

Kats,
I am sure that you are worried out of your mind. I remember when I had a test come back questionable and the Dr. called me in for a surgical consult for the very next day. I was terrified and I met w/ the surgeon and she did an aspiration right there and could tell right away it was benign. So even after all that sometimes they just need to run more conclusive tests. I hope you can try to find a little calm and tranquility in knowing that you are cared about and important to all of us.

What immediately comes to mind is something my T taught me a long time ago: "Fight the urge to internalize your emotions (by drinking) and find ways to externalize your emotions through physical activity, soothing imagery, and initiating positive resources" like you are by posting here.

quote:

There was so much to catch up on it just wasn't fulfilling.

JM
I really understand that feeling right now. I had my appt. with my T this morning and it started out as a disaster! It wasn't my regular time because of the holidays, so when I went in, there was another woman sitting in the waiting room. (OMG does my T really have other clients???) I was hoping that she was waiting for whoever was in with T. Well, she wasn't. T had made a mistake. (She has never done that before with me!) It really was the other woman's regular time, but T didn't think the woman was coming. Well anyway, T talked to me and realized that I couldn't come at any other time and she got the other woman to leave. (Score for me!!) Actually the whole thing caused some anxiety for me. Then I was all prepared to talk about the things I had journaled all during the holidays and had sent to her. SHE DIDN'T RECEIVE IT!!!!! She hadn't read all the innermost thoughts I had written and I was so unprepared for that. I didn't know where to start. She wanted me to tell her some of the things I had written. Well if I could have said them, I wouldn't have had to write them in the first place! She did get me to say some of the deep stuff, and I realized that it was ok to say this stuff to her and I wouldn't die, or she wouldn't call me stupid, or any of the other scenarios I make up in my mind. I'm glad she got me to talk, but I feel really disconnected as it just didn't go the way I had planned it in my mind. She will probably get my journaling later today (I hope) and maybe we can talk about it next week. I kind of feel lost though, like I really didn't talk to her today.

Kats - I'm so sorry that you have to worry about the results of your tests. I have had to do that before and it can be all consuming. Mine turned out fine though and all the worrying was for naught. I'm sending good vibes your way and waiting to hear the "good news" after your appt. on Friday. Keep talking to us, we are here for you!

PL

PL,
Whoa! I am so sorry for you. Iknow the feeling because that happened to me TWICE. The first time it was the same feeling you described; sitting in the waiting room _hoping_ this person was there to see another T but as soon as my T stepped out of her office she muttered an explitive and I bowed out eventhough it was "my" usual appt. I actually laughed and thought I couldn't hold that against her. She apologized profusely and said this never happens and I left. Then it hit me later and we finally had a frank discussion about it within a session or two.

The next time it was someone else's usual appt that she forgot about b/c she only comes in once a month and didn't have her locked into her PDA. Again, same feeling wondering if she was there to see another T, I thought nah, not a second time. I was instantly miffed when she walked into the waiting room and muttered that famous explitive and I rolled my eyes in disgust. The other lady immedialtey said I could have the appt. Let's just say that appt didn't go as planned either. I was anngry, hurt and felt unimportant. But I did learn that not only is my T _very_ human, but we are able to work through even the most difficult problems.

So I know about feeling jilted by your T and how devastating this can feel. But the best thing about our relationship w/ our T's is its resiliency. It sounds like your T worked to recover your trust though. But I know that lost feeling too.

I have been feeling detached from my T all day which feels very odd to me. I sort of want to call her, but not really. I wish I knew what this was about. If I am under so much stress that I am just shutting down or what? I want the connection but I am still slightly indifferent to it. Like ah, whatever. Then, "What?" That's not like me at all.

At least we can suffer together. Though I wish better for you.

quote:

I was looking forward to seeing my T, but not really any more. I just have way too much going on right now, and I am scared that therapy is just going to bring up more "stuff", that I might not be able to handle right now.

Kats, I was just thinking on this a little more. If I may share that when I went through my medical scare my T was right there with me on the phone offering me her comfort and hope and sharing a personal story of her own. She told me to call her and let her know how the test turned out and so I did. I left an elated vm and she even called me back. If you are going through a paeticular trauma right now it's ok to put the other stuff aside. Your T can be a wonderful resource through this too. It isn't all about digging up the past, it's about building a trusting bond.

If I were you I'd share this with your T. She needs to be aware of all your stressors.

I haven't been looking forward to seeing my T either for the last couple of days. This usually happens: after about 10 days or so I've gotten so that I am not thinking so much about her or missing her and it is frankly quite a relief. So now I don't want to stir it all up again by seeing her on Monday and getting back to the weekly torture of only seeing for one short appointment. It gets really tempting to quit. Really, really tempting.

Thanks JM. I kinda felt like calling her too, but what would I say? "Uh, I'm feeling whiny and you sorta hurt my feelings." I know she would totally understand and it wasn't her fault that the freakin' mail moves so slowly. Apparently she felt that I needed the appt. more than the other woman. Hmmm.... what does that say about me? I must be more cracked that some of her other clients. Well, I guess I can dwell on all of this until Tues. when I see her again. At least I will be back in the "rhythm" of my appointments. I guess that is important to me. I'm a creature of habit. (My mom always used to say this about me.)

River - I can totally understand about getting a break from longing for your T. But, don't quit unless you are really ready. And maybe you are, but I know I would be in more pain if I didn't have someone to tell all my freakishly weird stuff to, and know that she understands and doesn't judge me. Just my feelings, it might not be the same for you.

PL

Thanks PL but as much as I don't want to continue dealing with the pain that the transference stuff kicks up I also don't want to continue being depressed so it is not likely that I'll quit. I guess so far the cure is still better than the disease but sometimes that margin seems pretty thin.

River,
I get that about the relief of not thinking so much about her, only in my case it's more not longing or aching, I still think about her all the time. And there is something to be said of the torturous weekly routine too. I think I have been processing so much even during the break that I know I still need that outlet, but if I didn't I'd wonder "what's the use." I told my T "I want to quit and I've had enough, but I know I can't quit where I'm at right now." And I know that you aren't seriously considering it, just relating the feelings. So yes it's damned frustrating sometimes that it consumes so much of our lives, our thoughts, or actions. *sigh* You mentioned this usually happens after 10 days, I did not feel this way at all when she left for 3 weeks. I couldn't wait to see her. I don't know if this feeling detatched is a good thing or not. It doesn't sound condusive to the process and all I went through to get attached to her so that I can work through these more painful issues.

PL,

quote:

I kinda felt like calling her too, but what would I say? "Uh, I'm feeling whiny and you sorta hurt my feelings."

Yes. In fact I am sure she is expecting there to be more of a fall out with whatever you are feeling. However, if you are really ok with it then that's fine, but if she hurt your feelings that really needs to be explored. Yes she is human and entitled to make mistakes, that doesn't change how this incident made you feel about your attachment figure. And as for needing the appt more than the other client, how would you have felt if she had the other client stay? Ouch! I dread go there.

The first time my T was completely torn about who needed the appt more and I drove the farthest, but her other client was a young girl whos mother dropped her off and she could not get a hold of her so I acquiessed. But it did churn some hurt feelings inside me a couple days later. The second time I was determined I was not leaving and we were having this one out. Good thing the other client was so nice about it. But my T admitted she already knew I would be the one staying this time eventhough it was the other client's usual appt.

So you're not "more cracked" but this really creates a horrible position for a T and they know the ramifications it can have on a client who is struggling with surrendering their emotions to them and for this to happen can feel so devastating. But the beauty is it _can_ be worked through. A T wants to hear all your feelings even if it is about them. At least that is what my T says.

I really have to say I thought this thread would fade into the background right away. I had no idea others felt apathetic to seeing their T again too.

It wont be long and we will have that 24 hour thread smokin again I'm sure!

I was just reading the posts and thinking about T double scheduling and having to make a choice. My T totally forgot about me one day. I sat in the waiting room for I don't know how long....finally got up enough nerve to ask someone if she was in. She was there the whole time just totally forgot. Needless to say I was a little freaked out, but acted as if it was no big deal. We did have a great session though. I actually felt bad blaming myself for it. Go figure!

Kats

quote:

Needless to say I was a little freaked out, but acted as if it was no big deal.

That's a great example Kats, though I'm sure it hurt you way more than you let on to your T. That's what we learned to do when we were children, but our T's don't want us to do that with them. I'm glad you had a great session after all.

T's don't have to invent circumstances or triggers to our feelings they happen naturally, so when they do, it is really in our best interest to confront it so we can learn how to deal with them instead of stuffing them as we've become so good at doing. This being a relationship is a wonderful tool to learn relationship skills we never had a chance to learn before nor otherwise learn.

If I may hone in on this sentence not to pick on you Kats, but to make a point:

quote:

I actually felt bad blaming myself for it. Go figure!

That is so what we learned to do to survive in our FOO. As ridiculous as that sounds that's what we impulsively do. "I'm sorry I made you forget about me. If I wasn't so forgettable that would have never happened." That's basically what we are saying. We're such interesting creatures aren't we?

Forgettable...that was another feeling that I felt when my T dbl booked on me. Those are deeply entrenched beliefs that need to be uprooted and disposed of.

I hope I don't sound like I'm ranting now.

quote:

So yes it's damned frustrating sometimes that it consumes so much of our lives, our thoughts, or actions.

JM you have such a way with words. During the breaks but not so much during the regular week I can usually feel the torture ease up and that makes it hard to want to go back to it. It is like wearing uncomfortable shoes that pinch. Once you take them off for a little while it is really hard to put them back on. However, since I can't get where I want to go barefoot.....

quote:

I don't know if this feeling detached is a good thing or not. It doesn't sound conducive to the process and all I went through to get attached to her so that I can work through these more painful issues.

No it probably is not especially since during this break I've been struggling with feeling unworthy of being attached to anybody in the first place. Having always done things and gotten through things alone I have trouble imagining anyone being around to help me or to just be there with me. It is such a foreign concept but one that I want so much I am afraid to ever believe it could happen. Does this make sense? Do you know how some people seem to always have support when dealing with stuff - whether it be family who help out or friends who call or visit or even go with them when they have to do something difficult?

My mom spent weeks at the courthouse with a friend of her's family while they were there to settle a messy inheritance dispute. They didn't ask her to do this, she volunteered to drive an hour each way day after day to just be there as a support. This whole thing surprised the shit out of me because I would never expect this kind of support from her or anyone. It wasn't like someone was hurt or going to jail or something. Anyway, attachment hasn't been my strong suit and I guess whenever I feel like I can do without I grab onto that feeling since oddly it is comforting. I guess this is because it is so familiar.

Wow, JM, when I saw your post I was relieved because I thought I was the only one. I even felt guilty about not looking forward to going back. I felt like I wanted to quit, and that made me feel like a failure.

Reading all the posts has made me understand my own feelings so much better.

I love this board.

OW

quote:

And as for needing the appt more than the other client, how would you have felt if she had the other client stay?

JM
Trust me, I already know the answer to this question. While I was sitting there waiting for her to decide what to do, I was thinking that I should just leave and let the other woman have the time. I was already knowing "in my mind" that I would go to my car and cry my eyes out. I kept thinking, "how will I go any longer without talking to her?" Of course, that was when I thought she had already read my journal. Maybe it would have been better (easier) if I had waited until she got it. Anyway, she was able to get me to express some of the hard stuff, so I guess that was progress. Funny thing is, I now feel guilty and childish that I sort of stuck to my guns so the other woman would leave. I did tell my T at the time that this had created some anxiety in me. I guess I need to tell her how lost and disconnected I feel now, because of the way things played out. The problem is, (and I know this is crazy) but I have real issues with being worried about hurting her feelings. I have told her this, and that was really hard for me to do. I would probably jump off a cliff before I would hurt the feelings of someone I really care for. Transference really is a window into the relationships I have with other people. It is just so hard to say these things out loud and face my fears. It is all so confusing to me.

PL

PL,
I know you already knew the answer, it was sort of a retorical question and I think we'd all freak out if that scenario played out that way.
(oooga horn blast)

But this kills me:

quote:

The problem is, (and I know this is crazy) but I have real issues with being worried about hurting her feelings. I have told her this, and that was really hard for me to do. I would probably jump off a cliff before I would hurt the feelings of someone I really care for.

You are sounding more and more like me all the time. Another reason in the endless bag of reasons why I could never express my true feelings to my mom was because I couldn't bear to hurt her. She'd already been hurt so much in her lifetime.

You should not feel guilty or childish. It is ultimately your T's decision who gets to stay and who has to wait until next time. And as for childish, honey that's quite the opposite. You made your feelings known and you stuck up for what you believed in. That's a true strength!

Sounds like you did great!

And OW,
I'm glad you feel better too. I know I do.

JM

quote:

Having always done things and gotten through things alone I have trouble imagining anyone being around to help me or to just be there with me.

River
This makes so much sense to me. I am now realizing though that I'm the one who put up the shield so no one could get too close to me. I have to be the one to help everyone else, but I can't let myself open up to others and therefore be vulnerable. I have always thought that would be a sign of weakness for me. Although, that is not how I look at it for others. For me, it is fine for other people to need help and support. It is just not ok for me. I have to be strong for everyone else -- to the point of ignoring my needs to take care of everyone else's. That is probably why it has taken me 2 yrs. of therapy to finally believe that my T is there for me, and always will be. I still need to be reminded though. After all, why would she care or want to be there for me? I know that is not helpful thinking, and my T reminds me of this all the time, but it is difficult to change my thought patterns.

PL

quote:

Another reason in the endless bag of reasons why I could never express my true feelings to my mom was because I couldn't bear to hurt her.

JM
I swear we are living parallel lives! ( I know I said that before.) The difference is that I was afraid to hurt my mom's feelings because of being adopted. I think that I was always so grateful (not that she made me feel this way) for the life that I had instead of the life I could have had, that I never wanted to hurt her feelings. Deep down inside, I may have thought that she would send me back. My T and I have had this discussion quite often and when I told her I was afraid to hurt her feelings, she related this to my mom. After all, I do wish my T was my mom.

PL

I'm sure most of you might read this on the Finding A T thread, but I'd thought I'd copy this here since it applies here so well I think. Don't you?

Quote from Shrinklady's Titration page

quote:

Some clients arrive at the therapist's office anxious to discuss a long list of topics. If this describes you, I'd encourage you to consider a smaller list.

It's usually far more effective to explore one topic than it is to rush through many. The value of therapy is less in making sure your therapist knows all the details than it is in experiencing parts of your story with your therapist.

Give yourself plenty of time to process what happens--as it happens--in the session as you talk about your concerns and as your therapist responds. Allow yourself to settle in at the beginning, during and at the end of any subject. In other words, let your body catch up to your words.

I think that sums up a lot of what we are feeling, having sooo much to talk about after our extended separation from our T's.

PL I appreciate when you share your thoughts about adoption as it helps me in raising my child. So I thank you for your honesty.

I share so many of the feelings that have been posted here. My T has never double booked me or forgot about me but he had a habit of moving my appointments around and canceling me at the last minute. I say "had" because he has since made a huge effort not to do this any longer. Why? Well, because one day he canceled my appointment 90 minutes before my time. He rescheduled me for the next day but I was devastated. I was in a very hard emotional place and I needed to talk to him. I never said anything about this on the phone with him. I just said "okay". Wouldn't want to upset him right? But it was okay for me to be devastated and unable to articulate my feelings of abandonment, unimportance, rejection etc. When I calmed down later that evening and with the help of a good friend talking to me about it, I realized that I was feeling those "old" feelings of my mother never having any time for me and rejecting any overtures I made to her, and my dad always lying to me. My T triggered all those old feelings and they just rocked me. I decided to bring these emotions into my session the next day and we had an enormously great, healing session. I think it was one of the most productive and emotional sessions I have had with my T in a year. He asked me why I didn't tell him how I felt about the cancelation, telling me if I needed to see him I should have told him and he would have stayed later that evening to see me. It all comes back to my being unable to ask for what I need in any relationship. I am terrified that if I do, I will alienate the other person. Or they will hate me and want to be rid of me because I'm such a bother to them etc. He is now very careful about my appointments and he has only moved my time once or twice since and with an explanation of sorts. As much as he can give without too much self-disclosure. I realize he is trying and I do not get as upset as I used to. We even tease each other about it now.

The therapuetic relationship is interesting in that just about anything that would occur in real life ends up being played out in therapy and that's what it's for. That's why it's such a positive thing for us to share our feelings with our T's about how their behavior makes us feel.

I don't know what I would do or how I would feel if he had to chose between me and another client. I think I would be destroyed if he chose another over me. I would not envy him having to make that choice.

PL... I also had a situation where I was about to talk to my T about something really hard and emotional. I sent him an email to sort of alert him, give him some background and ask him to help me bring up this topic because I was struggling with it. I had even scheduled a longer session with him, which I had never done before. Well... guess what? He never got the email!!! I was wondering why he was not acting like he knew anything. I finally asked him and he said he didn't get it. Yikes. I had to do it all on my own. But I did. It was not the way I planned but he helped me and I managed and we had a very good very long session. So I know exactly how you felt. But you should feel empowered that you were able to do it without her having the advance journal. YOU did it and were strong. You should be proud.

I wanted to share something here that I read about avoiding the hard emotions with your T when your past indicates an unsecure relationship with a primary caregiver. It's written by Dr. Diana Fosha and Dr. Danny Yeung in a research paper on Attachment from the AEDP website (http://www.aedpinstitute.com/articles.html.) It's not easy reading and I'm not sure it would apply to anyone here but it helped me to understand why when I start to get to the difficult emotions with my T I then shut down and pretend like all is well and will only talk about the "shallow" stuff. I avoid going where I need to go.

Psychopathology and Transformation: Representational Schemas

"Difficulties in dyadic affect regulation and thus the individual's resulting aloneness in the face of overwhelming emotional experience are front and center in AEDP's understanding of how psychopathology develops. In dyads where the caregiver's affective competence is compromised, the child's intense emotions also disrupt the caregiver. The attachment bond becomes dysregulated, as does the smooth operation of its affect regulatory function.

Failed dyadic experiences themselves evoke a second wave of intense emotions,the pathogenic affects of fear, shame, and distress. As a result, (a) the disrupted initial emotional experience; (b) the experience of aloneness as a
result of the disrupted attachment bond; and (c) the pathogenic affects of fear, shame, and distress combine to give rise to yet a third wave of affects: the unbearable emotional state of aloneness. Feeling helpless, worthless, empty, broken, or lost are some of the wrenching feelings that characterize this "black hole of trauma" (van der Kolk, 2002), and individuals go to great lengths to avoid ever having these feelings. Procedural learning thus deems emotions dangerous. Eventually, just the hint of emotional activation evokes "red signal" affects, communicating to the individual that the direct experience of basic emotions needs to be defensively excluded. Subsequently, multiple defense mechanisms are used to (a) avoid the
havoc wreaked by dysregulated emotion and (b) maintain the attachment bond at all costs. Although necessary to emotional survival in the short term, long-term reliance on defensive mechanisms leads to constriction and distortion of the personality, compromised functioning, and the eventual emergence of psychopathology."

I thought I would just share. The great thing about this Board is that whatever you have felt in or about therapy it seems that someone else can relate to it and are open to your experience so that you don't feel so crazy and alone.

Thanks,
TN

(edited to add website link)

quote:

I am now realizing though that I'm the one who put up the shield so no one could get too close to me. I have to be the one to help everyone else, but I can't let myself open up to others and therefore be vulnerable. I have always thought that would be a sign of weakness for me.

Wow, is me to a T. That is so totally how I feel and PL you explained it so well. I still don't want to bother her and sometimes it makes me scared to talk about stuff. I feel like I just want to make her happy instead of saying "I am failing at this" or "I just can't get through this without your help".

I really need to get over this. Should be an interesting year.

Kats

JM... that quote about the long list of topics struct home w/me. I had a session like that on Monday and left feeling frustated by the lack of progress in any area. There was just too much to say and catch up on and I felt like it was not a good session. I need to narrow my list. This seems to happen when I have to skip a session due to holidays or vacation time.

Thanks,
TN

quote:

I feel like I just want to make her happy instead of saying "I am failing at this" or "I just can't get through this without your help".

Oh man, does that sound familiar! I have a hard time seeing how compassionate her face is when I do disclose something deep and painful. I feel very uncomfortable that someone is feeling my pain and is truly empathetic. After all, that is my job, isn't it?

TN
You're welcome. Feel free to ask anytime you have questions with your son. I may not have the answers, but I can give you my feelings on it. None of it is a secret for me, although I don't just bring it up to the average person on the street. There is so much coming up now that I was never aware of.

PL

JM - I just read that thread and thought the same thing. I think what you quoted sums it up so well.

I'm anxious to discuss a long list of topics but I know there's not enough time. So I don't know which one to concentrate on, because they all are so important to me right now. I've still got one more week to go until I talk to her, and although I don't want to see her, I wish it was today so I could just get it over with.

quote:

the unbearable emotional state of aloneness.

This is really how I'm feeling right now, especially since my son's T brought it to my attention that I really had no support system, then became my support system, and now since she can no longer be there it feels like the only support I had was just ripped away from me, leaving me more alone than I've ever been.

I guess I've always felt alone and all the feeling that come with it:

quote:

helpless, worthless, empty, broken

and I have gone to great lengths to avoid feeling any of it. I did a a really good job for a long time (although it was in the background all the time) but there seems to be no way to avoid it anymore.

But the best way to avoid it would be to NOT go see my T and just crawl back into my shell, which is why I really don't want to go, but know I have to.

OW

OW... you are wrong... you DO have a support system and that would be us here. We are here to support you and to share. Please don't feel alone. And you do have your own T to help you process all these feelings. I know you would like to avoid going...dealing with all the heavy emotional stuff makes us want to run like heck from it. But it does not get better if we ignore it. That's what keeps me in therapy. I know it won't go away without me looking at all the ugly stuff but I don't have to do it alone. I have my T and this group of supporters here.

I didn't post that article excerpt to make anyone feel worse and I hope that's not what it does. In my case, it helped me to understand why when in therapy we start to approach some hard emotional stuff I get scared and want to run. It's because I could never approach my mother with anything...she would react with anger or hostility or annoyance and so I learned that in order to protect my relationship with my attachment figure I needed to make like everything was wonderful, I didn't need anything, I could manage alone etc. But there were times I could not help but feel needy and in those times I felt terribly alone which then dumped me into that "black hole" feeling of self-hatred. So now I am beginning to understand that I fear dumping my emotional problems and needs onto my T in fear he will behave like my mother and be unable to contain my feelings and that will disrupt and destroy our relationship and my attachment to him (which I feel I need to survive).

I hope this makes sense.

I am trying to accept and understand with my T's help that he CAN contain my feelings, that I do not need to worry about HIS feelings, that is his job and I can bring him my feelings and emotions. He keeps reassuring me that he won't abandon me. It's just taking some time to really believe it.

So, OW...please keep going to your T. You need her now to get you through this very difficult period. Therapy is never easy but I have to believe that it is worth it in the end.

Hang in there,
TN

TN -

The support system here has been my lifeline these past few weeks. When I'm feeling the most alone and like I don't have anybody, I come here and read and reread, and it brings me back. Sometimes I look at the bottom of the screen to see who's online and I can feel your presence in the room with me. (and there's a lot of people here in the room with me right now, I may need to bring in a few more chairs )

The article didn't make me feel worse, because I was already feeling all those things. It was a very good thing because it made me understand myself a little better, understand maybe why I feel this way, and gives me hope that if it can be explained and understood, it could be dealt with and maybe, possibly, cured?

I really don't want to go see my T, but I'm not going to quit. I know that if I quit I will be stuck in this state forever, and that's not at all where I want to be.

Thanks TN for caring, and thanks to everyone on this board for being here.

quote:

I am trying to accept and understand with my T's help that he CAN contain my feelings, that I do not need to worry about HIS feelings, that is his job and I can bring him my feelings and emotions. He keeps reassuring me that he won't abandon me. It's just taking some time to really believe it.

TN
I need to keep reminding myself of this over, and over, and over. I worry so much about disappointing my T, or hurting her feelings, or not living up to what I think she wants me to do/be. This is how I felt with my mom, and her final act (dying) is perceived by me as true abandonment. My T tells me she will always be there for me, no matter what I tell her, but I still have this fear that she won't. This is one reason why I can't stop therapy. If I did, then I would turn the whole thing on myself and believe that she abandoned me, not that I quit her.

PL

quote:

This is how I felt with my mom, and her final act (dying) is perceived by me as true abandonment. My T tells me she will always be there for me, no matter what I tell her, but I still have this fear that she won't. This is one reason why I can't stop therapy.

You know PL, you really need to stop getting into my head like that. You pulled on some very sensitve heart strings on this one. I lost my mom 14 years ago December 9th. My attachment to my T is understandably profound and I cannot stop therapy anytime soon myself.

I'm an unpublished writer for those of you who didn't know, and if you don't mind I will quote an excerpt from my book to describe my feelings that cold wintery night after I said my final good-bye to her:
____________

Looking back I think she knew that would be our last good-bye. I really wish she would have indicated that to me. I still thought I had some time left. I thought we would talk, each expressing our fears, our sadness, and ending with her assurance that I will go on and she will always be right there in my heart. Somehow I expected that she would prepare me for my greatest loss yet. But how could she? I don't think she was prepared for it herself.

Overwhelmed with grief I rested my head on the side of her bed and wept bitterly. Yes, after all these years of worrying about losing her she's finally gone. It happened just as I feared; I was not ready. I still needed my mother and I was not prepared to know how to live without her. Even though we had an extremely close relationship, there was so much still unresolved between us and no hope for that to ever change now. I needed her to wake up and finally fulfill all of my longings, but she just laid there as I cried so helplessly. She left my life just as I entered hers; unable to provide for my needs.
_________
*I removed some content since it seemed a little too much for me. I left a little so that the following posts don't seem out of place. I am not sure, I may remove it entirely since it is not published yet. I don't know. Sorry for any confusion.

(new stuff)
Knowing as much about attachment as I do now, when I think of the close bond I had with my mother, it is obvious to me that it was only because I was the caregiver, the good little girl that couldn't bear to make mommy cry the way my father and older siblings did. She relied very heavily on me and I never allowed her to take care of me. I always wondered why I longed for a mother when I had such a wonderful loving mother as I did. She was a very warm, kind woman, but her parenting capabilities were disorganized at best. But bless her heart, she tried. I know her worn out efforts took years off her life. Too many years. I wonder if she were alive today what our relationship would be like now that I know what I know about the attachment process. I wonder how she'd respond to me and the shifts that I have made. I can pretend she'd be happy for me. Though she'd definitely feel threatened if it questioned her maternal abilities. She was a stubborn fiesty little woman. But she was my mom.

Thanks for reading. I hope I wasn't too self indulgent. But I know this is another reason this time of year is very triggering for me.


JM

Thank you for sharing that JM. It was very touching.

Thanks to everyone who has been posting here because you all have given me a lot to think about before my session on Mon. I like the idea of shortening the list. I have been doing this already in that I haven't been giving as many details about things that happened because then I run out of time before I feel we really had a chance to talk about the meat of it. Instead of catching up on Mon I may just talk about one or two things. Really the most important thing I need is to feel secure in our relationship like I did after my last session almost two weeks ago.

quote:

I was not ready. I still needed my mother and I was not prepared to know how to live without her.

JM

Beautiful writing -- and very honest and deep. My mom died 2 yrs. ago and I am still having a difficult time with the grief. You see, since I built this shield around myself, I was never able to tell her how much I loved her and how terribly I would miss her. Even as she lay dying, I couldn't get the words to come out, they just stuck in my throat. I know that she understood how much I loved her, after all, I was her caregiver and she wanted me to be that for her as she got weaker and older. This all weighs very heavily on me and I am trying to work through this with my T. That is why it is so important for me that she is always present and understanding and reminding me that she won't go away.

I know that the attachment I have with my T mirrors the attachment I had for my mom. I have the relationship with her that I always longed for with my mom. We were very close, but neither one of us could share our emotions with each other. I'm getting better at showing my emotions to my T, but I still have a long way to go.

PL

quote:

Even as she lay dying, I couldn't get the words to come out, they just stuck in my throat. I know that she understood how much I loved her, after all, I was her caregiver and she wanted me to be that for her as she got weaker and older. This all weighs very heavily on me and I am trying to work through this with my T. That is why it is so important for me that she is always present and understanding and reminding me that she won't go away.

I so hear you PL. I laid next to my mom earlier that evening before she passed away and silently held her hand and watched the corotid artery pulsate strenuously on the side of her neck. We didn't speak a word until I had to leave to pick up my daughter, but I so badly wanted to talk about this. A few days before this I tried to bring it up by asking her how she was feeling about all of it. I can't even remember her words but she dropped it like a sack of flour.

I think my T told me that you can never really experience the "acceptance stage" of grief of an unresolved relationship w/o therapy. There is no closure for it until you work out the issues that plagued the relationship. I was just thinking that is perhaps why some of us are so intent to carry out our lists of details to our T's. Not only are they willing to listen, but we have this need to get it all out, to get it all said because we never had opportunity for expression before and it all feels so urgent and so big inside.

Do any of you ever notice how BIG this stuff feels until you say it sometimes? So often I will be squirming and trying to tell my T something that feels so colossal and she is on the edge of her seat waiting to catch this enormous detail and when I finally express it, we both sit there and go huh. She usually says "it's not that bad, it's not that big of a deal." Never to minimize my experience or my feelings, but to point out the truth. To see it for what it really is and reduce my fear of it I guess. Does that make sense?
JM

JM - thank you for sharing. I read it before you edited and after and I think you did a fabulous job of making it feel so real.

PL - thank you for sharing too. I had the same issue with expressing my feelings of love to my mom, and really to anyone but my kids.

I was never really able to work things out with my mom before she died because she was pretty severely mentally ill. When she became sick with cancer the doctors put her on oxycontin and almost immediately she could ignore the voices and her paranoia disappeared. For six months I got a glimpse of what my mom may have really been like behind all the voices and paranoia and medication. I'm very grateful for that time but it also made it harder. When she died I didn't really grieve for the loss of my mom, but for the mom I could have had but never did.

I think you're right JM, I do feel a strong urge to just get everything out when I talk to my T, and there's never enough time to do it. I never felt like I was important enough to any of my caregivers to bother them with my problems, and my T just sits there and gives me her full attention. And then she even responds appropriately and asks me to tell her more.

OW

quote:

For six months I got a glimpse of what my mom may have really been like behind all the voices and paranoia and medication. I'm very grateful for that time but it also made it harder. When she died I didn't really grieve for the loss of my mom, but for the mom I could have had but never did.

OW, I don't think I will ever be able to clear this lump in my throat. Part of me wants to cry for your "loss" in that way to. Then part of me wants to be happy for the glimpse you briefly had. I don't know what to feel and I'm sure it is compounded 10,000 times for you! I understand the complexity you must feel: Would it have been better to never know, or can you find some solace in knowing the mother she could've been if only...

JM

quote:

I think my T told me that you can never really experience the "acceptance stage" of grief of an unresolved relationship w/o therapy. There is no closure for it until you work out the issues that plagued the relationship. I was just thinking that is perhaps why some of us are so intent to carry out our lists of details to our T's. Not only are they willing to listen, but we have this need to get it all out, to get it all said because we never had opportunity for expression before and it all feels so urgent and so big inside.

JM
You are so right about this. It all seems so big to me, and I know I just have to get it out, all of it. The day that I re-experienced my mom's last day with my T, was a huge break through for me. It hurt so badly and my T just sat there and listened and looked compassionate and let me blubber on. Every time I felt like it was too hard to say, she nudged me just a little bit so that I could get through it. I'm thinking that I may have to go through it all again sometime because my T is the only one I've been able to say it out loud to. I still can't share it face to face with anyone. That is mostly because I am terrified of crying in front of any one. My T is the only one who has been so lucky to see that site!

I'm so glad that you had the chance to just lay next to your mom and let her feel your love. My mom died of liver failure and it is such a painful way to go. She was alert until the last day when the pain was so great that the Dr. filled her with Morphine. As she lay there breathing loudly, I just whispered in her ear that it was ok to let go. I really think she heard me -- she died a few hours later.

OW
I'm sorry that you had to deal with such opposing situations with your mom. I don't know what I would grieve either. Maybe remembering those six months that you had with her will make your memories of her have more meaning. And bring some comfort to you.

PL

quote:

Every time I felt like it was too hard to say, she nudged me just a little bit so that I could get through it. I'm thinking that I may have to go through it all again sometime because my T is the only one I've been able to say it out loud to.

PL- Sometimes a little nudge is all we ever needed. I love how gentle your T sounds. She sounds so much like mine. In fact, I desire her nudges over her being too passive.

Even though I have talked about my mom's death with my T and she has read my book in it's entirety, I did print out that excerpt a few weeks ago because I felt a need to share that with her again, but then I chickened out convincing myself, "I've already done this, it's time to move on." Reading what you wrote about needing to talk and go through it again made me realize I cut myself short of my needs again. That healing happens in fragments and needs to be experienced at different levels at different times. But then there's that darn list again. "I have this to talk about, and this, and this!"

Actually, I talked with my T Friday morning and we agreed that I would email the details and we would pick out one or two most significant and explore them in session. That way everything gets out there and then the session doesn't feel so unfulfilling.

PL-I think you were brave to tell your mom it was ok to let go. It sounds like a final act of courage that you gave her that she always needed from you. Now as the survivor you can work to restore all the things she was never able to provide. I think our mothers would give their smile of approval if they knew how much better we are doing today. I know I give to my daughter better than I used to because I WANT better for her and I know I failed her in many ways too. But it's never too late to change the legacy we leave them.
JM

quote:

I think our mothers would give their smile of approval if they knew how much better we are doing today. I know I give to my daughter better than I used to because I WANT better for her and I know I failed her in many ways too. But it's never too late to change the legacy we leave them.

Thanks JM
Your words are really appreciated and brought tears to my eyes. (luckily no one is around ) I really haven't shared this with anyone other than my T. Everyone here feels so safe to me.

I agree that our moms are smiling on us. It also helps me to change the way I parent my daughter and sons. My T and I just talked about that recently. She thinks I should try to show my emotions in front of my kids as a good model for them. I told her I can't do that right now, but I give value to their emotions and really listen to them when they are upset about something. I owe that to my T and therapy. Yes, she is amazing and I love her with all my heart. Hence, the transference issue!

PL

Thanks JM and PL. I try to hold on the the happiness we shared in that six months. We did have a lot of fun - it helped that she got an inheritance that year, so after being dirt poor her entire adult life, we were able to go out and splurge and buy her whatever she wanted. We even drove to Florida and went to Disneyworld with my kids (something completely unimaginable before). It doesn't change the difficulties we had in our lives, but it does make me smile.

I told my son's T once that I had been through therapy before and had dealt with the abuse and neglect I had suffered, and I thought I was OK with it. I told her I felt so pathetic having to cover it all again. She told me that people deal with things in layers at different times of their lives, and that it's perfectly healthy.

quote:

That healing happens in fragments and needs to be experienced at different levels at different times.

Exactly what my son's T said.

PL - My mom was unconscious for a couple of weeks and the hospice nurse had been saying it was a matter of hours all those two weeks. They were amazed that she was holding on that long - I wasn't because she really, really didn't want to die. One night she started having seizures (the hospice people said it happens but didn't warn us because it wasn't common). We decided to increase her morphine that night to stop the seizures and I told my mom it was OK to let go. She passed away that night. It's a powerful thing and I hope you can find comfort in the fact that you gave her exactly what she needed that night.

OW

quote:

We did have a lot of fun - it helped that she got an inheritance that year, so after being dirt poor her entire adult life, we were able to go out and splurge and buy her whatever she wanted. We even drove to Florida and went to Disneyworld with my kids (something completely unimaginable before). It doesn't change the difficulties we had in our lives, but it does make me smile.

OW-That resonates so deeply and tugs at my heart. My mom and I did get to spend a lot of time together when she was alive. In fact, there was a peticular store we used to go to and I could not step foot inside there for a long time after she died. But we never got to take vacations or go away together. My mom went without so much materially too. It isn't that we were poor, but my father was very controlling with the money and squandered a lot on booze and gambling. I had forgotten until you mentioned going to Disney World with your mom, that I always dreamed I'd take her to exciting places. I guess I had always planned to take care of her. Oddly I miss not being able to do that anymore. I am actually tearing and choking up right now. She deserved so much better than what my dad gave her. She never asked for much and he just never saw the need to spend money on themselves and enjoy themselves unless it was with booze and gambling. And when they did go places he'd embarass her and the family with his boistorous drinking binges. I think I still resent that she went first. -There's something else I don't think I was aware of.

This thread is becoming quite the catharsis for me. I really appreciate everybody sharing so deeply.