I just got home from having a session with my P. It was an okay session but we did not talk about anything major. I almost feel like I wasted the session but my old high school psychologist came to visit with me afterwards (he does that once every six months) and made me realize that after working so hard for the last several months and taking so many steps forward I need a "break" session and that it was actually okay.

But here is the hard part for me right now. I kind of wanted to bring up the thing again about wanting a hug but knew we had other stuff that needed to be talked about, I was hoping he would bring it up or some how bring up stuff we had talked about for the last few months so I could get around to it that subject but he didnt. We talked about my therapist, and me being able to see him every three weeks instead of every four and a couple of other non important issues. But the whole time I am sitting there thinking about how much I was to just hug him so badly but couldnt bring myself to bring it up. I left feeling a little upset but telling myself that next time we would talk about it and was okay with that. Until I am sitting there in the waiting room just waiting for my old high school psychologist to show up. There was about a 40 minutes wait for him so I got to see my P come out and get his next patient.

The patient was a lady and her mother. The lady was about my age or a little older and you could tell she was mentally retarded and she was really nice. While they were in the waiting room she handed my P and picture she had drew for him and he acted all excited about it and told her how pretty it was and they talked about it for a few minutes which I thought was kind of sweet. But then he reached over and gave her a really big hug and that just about killed me.

I tried just looking away but after the hug he called my name to ask me a question so I looked at him and answered but I really wanted to say "what about me? why cant I have a hug? you know I want a hug and you dont give me one but you hug her in front of me. dont you realize how much that hurts me?" But I couldnt say any of that stuff. I was so close to crying and didnt know what to do. I just assumed that he had a no hug policy or at least that is what I told myself to make myself feel better, but him hugging her took that away from me. And now I assume its more about me. Its probably because I am in love with him. Intellectually I know that it is different hugging a 26 year old who is mentally retarded and on the level of a 6 year old than there is hugging me. He even hugged my 5 year old and 2 year old today before the session. But emotionally I just cant understand it and am really hurt by it. I dont even know how to tell him or bring it up and dont know if I can because of how hurt I am, but at the same time I do not want to wait 3 weeks to tell him and just feel this way the whole time.

I dont know what to do, but I still feel like crying and I am really hurting.

If your feelings are that strong for him. I don't see how continuing to see him at all helps you.

I don't know, but I kind of think you might be better off if you find a new T and try to figure out why your feelings are the way they are.

Because if I just stop seeing him without working through this then I will just feel the same way about the next guy that I have transference for, its my life story. Fall in love with older guys that are authority figures and most of them take off and at least with this one I have the chance to work through it and do it safely. But honestly, not to be rude or mean or anything, but hearing that I should not keep seeing him doesnt make me feel better at all when I am already hurting this much.

I'm sorry i shouldn't have just said stop seeing him... Maybe there is something you can do to stop thinking about him so much like watching a movie or something. Maybe even reading a book or cooking something.

yeah, I am trying to find something to do that will help. I emailed him and let him know how I feel about what happened and hoping that I will get some kind of response and that would probably at least make me feel a little better knowing that he understands or at least knows how I feel.

But even just not thinking about him its just a painful situation that I wish I would have been brave enough right then to say that I needed to talk to him and tell him how I felt. And not to mention that even though I was excited to see my old high school psychologist(whom I am also in love with) today after my session with my P but that means that it will be six more months before I see him again too which is also sad.

Pippi I'm so sorry you are hurting like this. Your P was thoughless in hugging the other patient in your plain view knowing how much you want a hug from him. I can only say that perhaps he didn't realize you were there for a moment and didn't connect his hugging an obviously child-like patient to your need and longings for a hug. I'm glad that if you could not actually talk to him about it that you were able to email your feelings to him to let him know how you are feeling.

The whole touch issue in therapy is well... touchy. Some Ts think it's okay to give a hug or a pat a handshake while others strictly adhere to a non touch rule. Some Ts will do it only if a client asks for it and they will never initiate it. Some Ts fear it will create other problems for patients, especially those with abuse and trauma histories.

I saw my T for an entire year before I worked up the courage to offer my hand for a handshake. I had questioned him once before about his handshake policy and he said he really does not have one. So I offered and he accepted and we shook hands (see my avatar). Of course we discussed it in the next session.

I hope that sending the email will open the door for you both to have further discussion on this issue. Even if you still get a no, just discussing it will be helpful for you and will make you feel better.

I wish I could offer more. Try to focus on all the good things about your P and not the hug. You know sometimes I feel like my T is hugging me during a session when he is not even near me. It's part of that really attuned relationship that can be just as amazing as an actual hug.

Be well
TN

I did email my P and I talked to him on the phone. I texted him and told him that I sent him and email and really needed him to read it. Instead of reading the email or just answering in text he called me. At first I ignored his call cause I didnt know if I could actually go through with talking to him. But in his message he left he was pretty mad that I had bothered him for a non emergency reason and said that he would get to the email whenever he had time but that if I wanted to continue to be his patient than I needed to call and talk to him with in the next minute or two. So I called and when he asked what was up I asked him why he could not just check his email which his reply was that he was not at home and that he wasnt going to just read some long email. He said that I had two seconds to start talking and tell him what happened after therapy that upset me or he was going to fire me as a patient. So I told him. He wasnt all that understanding about it and said it could have waited until the next appointment in three weeks and that I should have known that. But he did admit that he would have probably felt hurt if he was in my place and saw that but that he doesnt even remember hugging the patient. He asked what patient it was and I told him I didnt know so he wanted a physical description. I said I wasnt paying that much attention to HER and his response was basically that of course I wasnt cause I was only paying attention to me and what I wanted. When I said I wasnt paying attention to HER I meant that I was just paying attention to him and then trying not to focus on what I just saw cause I was hurt. He tried to tell me that he deal with each patient differently and it depends on what that patient needs at that time and that we are all different. That really didnt help. The he mentioned that we are also dealing with a lot of other feelings with me right now. I finally just came out and asked him why dont I ever get hugs? He tried to tell me that I have gotten one before which I said it had never happened and then he went back to the whole different patient thing.

He then went back to the deal about contacting him for the wrong reasons and I asked him if he was going to quit seeing me and he said it depends on how I act between now and the next session. So I guess the good thing is that I am still his patient.

I do feel kind of mad at him and actually have been crying since I got off the phone with him because he just doesnt get it. I dont care about why he hugged the other patient, I just want a hug from him! And I would remember if I would have ever gotten one from him before! And it just seems like the more I open up to him and the more honest I am the more he thinks I am just playing games.

Hi Pippi, I wish I was with you right now so I could give you a big hug - I know it wouldn't be the same as a hug from your P though.

I am not sure if it helps to know that you are not alone, you and I are in exactly the same situation. I love my P dearly and for a long time all I wanted was a hug. Now he has hugged me three times and I just want more than hugs now. (my relationship with my P is very unhealthy though because he has very weak boundaries). But I do know what you mean about sitting there through the whole session thinking/obsessing in my case about hugging.

When you said

quote:

but I really wanted to say "what about me? why cant I have a hug?

that really reminded me of something that a child might say to a parent.....a child that has been left out, ignored, not noticed and overlooked in favour of another child or a lover or a bottle or drugs.

Do you ever remember feeling like you would do anything for a hug from one of your parents?

I have a major depression and anxiety and ptsd. For me the most painful thing I have experienced so far is loving my P so much and desperately wanting him to love me back and knowing that he only loves me as a client. That is the same relationship I have with my parents - desperately wanting to be noticed and loved and accepted and knowing I am not. However I am able to delude myself that I am all of those things to them. Same with my P - I have spent the last seven months since he ended deluding myself that he loves me and wants to be with me - because I could not cope with the rejection. He has since let me come back.

Feel free to come here Pippi anytime to talk about this, there is healing in the talking and if I can help you in any way please let me know.

Hugs
Halo

And also I just remembered how I wanted to tell you how brave and inspiring you are!!!!!

I definitely understand how hard that would have been to tell him and you can be so proud of yourself for acknowledging your needs and giving them a voice.

Woohoo Pippi you are growing in leaps and bounds.

Thanks for the replies, they really do help. I spent most of the night awake and thinking about this and crying cause of how much it does hurt, well, Im still crying as I am typing this.

I just wish there was some way to make him understand how much it hurt me and that how much his responses for it were just like something I would have expected from one of my dads that I have problems with. My biological dad told me once that he let my uncle start molesting me at 2 months of age. He did not really care how much it bothered me cause his response was basically "you were my kid and we needed the money so I did what I needed to do." Which to me seemed like the response of "it was my office and I did what I needed to do for my other patient in MY OFFICE so its your fault you were there." My other dad that adopted me spent most of his time dealing with my sister and giving her all the attention cause she acted out so much and has so many problems and she "needed it" just like my P told me that he didnt remember exactly what I was talking about but that if he hugged her than she "needed it". I have spent my whole life with my adopted dad going"hey look at me, what about me, can I have some of your time, can I have a hug, can you act like its not all about my sister." But he never did. And I feel I am now getting that from my P. I am once again the younger sister who just doesnt need as much or at least its the way it seems. I honestly dont understand why I am the one always in that position. But how can he expect me to keep opening up and being vulnerable when if I do it and am that honest I get told I am playing games or lying or making excuses for calling him. I some times wish he would get on here and read some of the stuff I write and maybe then he would understand its not all about me wanting to talk to him. If it was I wouldnt be on here telling how I feel I would only be telling him and I would not be sitting here crying over it.

I guess Ill have to find some way to talk to him about this again when I see him and try to open up more but I just dont know how I can after the response I got this time. I keep telling myself that he doesnt really care and that he just pretends to care for me for the 20 minutes a month that he spends with me and that he made a big deal about changing it to every three weeks instead of 4 that I see him cause it would be too hard to pretend to care about me for 20 minutes every three weeks cause he can barely do it every 4 weeks. I am almost want to stay this mad at him so that next time I do see him I can just go in there and let him have it. I dont know what good that would do but it would make me feel better to hurt him I just dont want to feel this way for the next three weeks. I dont know what I will do and I dont get to see my T until next week cause I am only seeing her every two weeks and even though she is my new T I kind of want to see her and tell her. I guess I am lucky that I get to see the lady from church tonight that I do some counseling with cause that might help some.

I am close to just telling him that from now on I will only talk about meds with him cause I dont feel like I can trust him with anything else, even if thats not what I really would do at least it might hurt his feelings so he can feel hurt like I do. I am afraid that if I am honest about how I feel when I see him that I might start crying which I dont cry in front of people. But maybe if I did he would actually believe me. I am just so scared to cry in front of people.

I am just lost and hurt and dont know what to do. I want to just go hide in bed and not get back out ever again!

And yeah that add attachment thing....no way, can some one please take some attachment away cause I cant deal with it any more.

This therapy stuff is too painful, why did I ever sign up for this crap? And after ten years I should have just ran away before it got to this point!

But I cant run away cause I just love him so much and even being this mad at him I just want him to take me in his arms and tell me everything will be okay and that we can work through this and that I can trust him and that he will be there for me through this and that he loves. But I guess I am wanting to much. I mean seriously, I wasnt good enough to get that from my real dad so why would the man that I am in love with that I just want to be my dad that is actually not my dad do that for me?

I am thinking about printing off a lot of the stuff I wrote on here and taking it to him and just telling him to read it later on. I dont want him to read it in the next session but maybe in between the next couple of sessions just so maybe he could understand how serious I am about this.

I just hurt so much!

Hi pippi
It's a difficult relationship you have with your P. You said he is yelling at you at times and you kind of understand why and sounds like you need him to yell at you to show you the boundary of the relationship (or something like that). And you see him only for 20 minutes every few weeks.
I'm just wondering (I don't remember if you said that is some post earlier) if you ever cried with him. Maybe he would get that then, if he saw how much he really hurt you hugging somebody else while you were present.
I can't imagine why he was not more thoughtful then. I hope he will understand that you really hurt, that you weren't bothering him without a reason. Maybe there is a way to show him that it did really hurt you.

Oh my gosh, Pippi! Your posts triggered something so awful in me and I'm crying too.

I'm horrified about the response he gave you after you emailed/texted him. Oh my gosh, you NEEDED him and he talked to you that way? And threatening you that you had two seconds to start talking. I would've been so intimidated by that, I wouldn't have been able to say a word.

My T goes overtime with the people ahead of me sometimes (by a good 15-25 minutes) but there have been a few occasions where he has gone overtime with me. Yet I seethe with jealousy when I have to wait. I get a handshake before/after but nothing else. I think it'd be nice to get hugged but I don't crave it because I know as soon as I get one he'll either move far away or die.

I know I'm rambling but how I wish your T would've been kinder to you. And now you have to wait such a long time to see him again, and if it were me I'd be filling in his silence with my own words (projecting). What happened to you sounds like everyone's worst nightmare, and I'm so sorry. I wish I knew what else to say. My heart hurts for you. Debbye

I have never cried in front of him or even on the phone with him and I have been seeing him for ten years. I have always been too scared to cry in front of any one, even my parents. The last time I remember crying in front of any one was at my mom's funeral when I four. Even when I was growing up just having serious conversations with my parents that could possible make me cry I would have my head completely covered with a blanket cause I just cant cry in front of people. It does scare me that I have come close the last couple of sessions to actually crying in front of him and so far I have been able to stop it from happening and just hold it in, but I am pretty sure that if I tried to discuss this with him then I would start crying. On one hand I want that to happen cause I think he would understand more if it went to that point where I actually did cry in front of him since that is something I have told him recently I will never do. Maybe then he would understand. But at the same time the thought of that happening is so scary and the though opening up even more and being more vulnerable and not knowing how it will end or if he will really understand.

It is so frustrating to be so in love with a guy that can hurt me so much and its not like he even tries to do it. I wish sometimes he would just pay a little more attention to whats going on. I need some way to make him really understand that I am really trying and being honest and open and vulnerable with him so that maybe he will change the way he is acting.

He does has reasons not to trust me and to think I am just making excuses to call him, but even when I do that I am just not this open or honest with him and would never let it be over something like this. I just want to start over and have him stop focusing on all the times I screwed up or the things I did wrong or the times I have lied. I do exactly what he asks me to do to change things but he still assumes I am doing it for the wrong reasons. I dont know how to change it so that he can see. I want things to be better and I want to work through things but the more I put into it the more it seems like he is pulling out and thinks I am lying. Its just like a kid with a father that she can never be good enough for or never do the right thing. That is really how I feel right now, but at the same time I am so attached to him and in love with him that I could not handle not seeing him, but at the same time I want to run far away from him and wish I could just hate him so much that I could leave and never come back.

Pippi, I am really mad at your P right now! If I were in your shoes, I would be reacting in an extremely destructive way. I wouldn't be able to take it. I can't see how he can be any good for you, or any of his patients for that matter. I want to say lots of #%$@%! about this, but the problem is that I also partially understand your feelings of attachment to him. So although you are angry with him too, you might be tempted to defend him against my anger because you still need him. I hope you can still feel this fury when you see him next and really let him have it. I am sorry for all this pain he has caused you!

Debbye- I am doing the projection thing right now. With him not being there to say anything to tell me how he really feels or why he responded the way he did all I have is the thoughts going through my head that are saying its because he doesnt care and Im not good enough and I dont deserve to get a hug from me and that he doesnt like having me as a patient and he is only doing it for the money and he would rather having me hurting than to have to deal with me for any extra time and that he really doesnt care.

Which is crazy cause just last week I was all about how I know he cares and he shows me he cares and has told me he cares, but now Im down on this end. I hate this therapy roller coaster. And usually to make it all feel better I try to find some way to blame myself for his reaction but right now I am fighting doing that because I honestly feel like I did the right thing.

My P often goes over time with other patients or me. He does not really pay attention to the clock and just lets whatever happens happen which is one of his good qualities. He has not been doing it as much with me lately, but it seems like he is not doing it that much with any patients lately because he has actually been on time for the last year. The first nine years he was never on time for an appointment, you could wait a couple of hours sometimes but every one thought it was worth it because we all got the same kind of care from him and knew he didnt mind taking extra time on us, but it was a big joke with all the patients and even the secretary. Every one knew to never show up even a few minutes early to an appointment and it was usually better to show up a half hour late cause even if he was actually on time for once he would still work you in. But I would pay attention to the clock when I was in the waiting room and get jealous if he spent more time with some one else. Or if he spent more time joking around with them while they were paying for the appointment than he did with me or if one day he shook someone elses hand but didnt shake mine. And if those little things made me jealous than he should know how hurt I would be by this.

It really was just easier thinking he had a no hug policy with all of his patients and only shook hands or would pat them on the back some times but never hugged them. That is what I assumed up until yesterday and it did make me feel better up until that time that I wasnt getting hugs because he didnt do that for any one.

I am so fighting the urge to some how turn this all around on me and make it my fault so that I dont have to feel so angry and hurt by him. Make me where I must have done something wrong, or didnt do good enough during the appointment so I dont deserve a hug.