Hll
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Well, I think he definitely will notice. It's like a slap isn't it? 
Are you sure you are done and you don't want to go back?
Maybe taking a break from him and coming back later?
Well, if he is not the right one for you then he just isn't but if you feel that there is some transference stuff going on there, you sure you don't want to see him anymore?
You said in some other post that you were training to become a therapist. Does it mean that you need to find another T? I understand that the therapy is part of the training.
If you don't mind posting how the situation develops. I'm kind of curious.
Are you sure you are done and you don't want to go back?
Maybe taking a break from him and coming back later?
Well, if he is not the right one for you then he just isn't but if you feel that there is some transference stuff going on there, you sure you don't want to see him anymore?
You said in some other post that you were training to become a therapist. Does it mean that you need to find another T? I understand that the therapy is part of the training.
If you don't mind posting how the situation develops. I'm kind of curious.
Hi Caeti,
Haven't done this myself tho I've fantasized about it.
You're asking questions, so I hope you don't mind if I give some straight answers from my perspective. Which might be wrong.
The money - and the termination - and the lie about rescheduling - and the note - sound like really indirect ways to say things that you feel strongly. If you're saying those things indirectly because you want a particular reaction - you want to be chased, or have your mind read or something, then maybe it is manipulative action. At the least it's a high risk strategy because you might not get what you want, or to say what you feel.
I often want my T to chase me by going after particular information or to mind-read. She told me once that she 'doesn't play mind-reading' and I just thought 'sad for you, coz it's fun...'. But I hate it when she gets stuff wrong, and then I hate realizing that actually I've short-changed myself because I didn't tell her stuff.
Sometimes I drive myself crazy wondering if she hasn't picked up on something because she's obtuse, or because she's deliberately making me say it or what. But now that I think about it I realize (clunk-clunk, ugh...) that it actually doesn't matter. It's my responsibility to communicate with her, if I want her to know the stuff. And I am capable of communicating with her if I hold myself to a higher standard. I know she's not dumb, so really I don't need to test her.
BUT - and I wonder if you have this trouble too - I WANT HER TO CHASE ME! I want her to really really want to know, to care, to demonstrate all that. It feels like what I neeeed. When I write about it like this I think hm, that's such a powerful position for ME to put myself in - making her jump through hoops so that I don't feel exposed. so if she comes to care for me, I hold all the cards and control the situation.
But I wonder if one can ever really *receive* care from that position. I have this sneaky scary feeling that maybe the love and care and attention only actually sticks and means something when you come to it through open, willing vulnerability. Putting yourSELF forward, saying what you mean, being honest.
Ew, gross.
Haven't done this myself tho I've fantasized about it.
You're asking questions, so I hope you don't mind if I give some straight answers from my perspective. Which might be wrong.
The money - and the termination - and the lie about rescheduling - and the note - sound like really indirect ways to say things that you feel strongly. If you're saying those things indirectly because you want a particular reaction - you want to be chased, or have your mind read or something, then maybe it is manipulative action. At the least it's a high risk strategy because you might not get what you want, or to say what you feel.
I often want my T to chase me by going after particular information or to mind-read. She told me once that she 'doesn't play mind-reading' and I just thought 'sad for you, coz it's fun...'. But I hate it when she gets stuff wrong, and then I hate realizing that actually I've short-changed myself because I didn't tell her stuff.
Sometimes I drive myself crazy wondering if she hasn't picked up on something because she's obtuse, or because she's deliberately making me say it or what. But now that I think about it I realize (clunk-clunk, ugh...) that it actually doesn't matter. It's my responsibility to communicate with her, if I want her to know the stuff. And I am capable of communicating with her if I hold myself to a higher standard. I know she's not dumb, so really I don't need to test her.
BUT - and I wonder if you have this trouble too - I WANT HER TO CHASE ME! I want her to really really want to know, to care, to demonstrate all that. It feels like what I neeeed. When I write about it like this I think hm, that's such a powerful position for ME to put myself in - making her jump through hoops so that I don't feel exposed. so if she comes to care for me, I hold all the cards and control the situation.
But I wonder if one can ever really *receive* care from that position. I have this sneaky scary feeling that maybe the love and care and attention only actually sticks and means something when you come to it through open, willing vulnerability. Putting yourSELF forward, saying what you mean, being honest.
Ew, gross.
Im right there with you on the way you feel. I have the same type of automatic filter you described above and it is hell trying to get past it. I also say the things I dont really mean. My biggest thing right now is that I was very close to not seeing my P anymore. I got very mad at him. I called him several times and he never returned my call. I needed him to call my therapist which he and my therapist have both been saying they were going to do for the last month. I was getting frustrated and when he finally called me back a few days after the first message I left he asked what was up and the first words out of my mouth were "you need to call my therapist." He basically bit my head off for that and said very rudely "how far do you think you are going to get in life telling people what they need to do right off the bat." By the time I got off the phone he threatened to quit seeing me, said I bug him too much and really pissed me off. I was coming up with all different kind of ways to piss him off. I told my husband I was through with therapy and was going to stop seeing my therapist and my P. He said he wouldnt let. So I decided I would block his number on my phone, delete it off my phone, stop taking all my meds just cause he said the only reason I should have to call him is an emergency about meds so I figure when he asked how the meds were working I would say "well, you didnt want me to call you for anything so I just stopped all my meds so I would never have a reason to call you." I even considered texting him from my email and telling him to call my phone and that way he would know I blocked his number. The last thing I considered was that I am suppose to see him on Feb. 2nd and my old high school psychologist is suppose to come visit with me after my appointment. I was going to cancel my appointment with my P but then still show up to his waiting room to meet with my old psychologist. That way he would see me with the psychologist and maybe then he would know how mad I really was. I can be very manipulative, but I really wanted him to feel as angry as I do, even though I am not sure exactly what that will accomplish except make me feel better. But my husband says I cant do any of that stuff and wants me to go in there to the session and talk to him and deal with the anger in person. SO I decided I would let him know I am mad by when he asks whats going on when I first get there I will say "Im not talking to you, Im mad at you and you are mean!" And act like a little kid 
and throw my tantrum and make him try to get me to calm down and make me feel better and apologize.
I know I can be very manipulative and try to make people feel as bad as I do or know how bad I feel without having to come out and say it to them....especially when it comes to anger. So what you did to you therapist is something I would do.
and throw my tantrum and make him try to get me to calm down and make me feel better and apologize.I know I can be very manipulative and try to make people feel as bad as I do or know how bad I feel without having to come out and say it to them....especially when it comes to anger. So what you did to you therapist is something I would do.
The reason I keep seeing my P is because I am so in love with him. I couldnt imagine not being able to see him. He can be a complete jerk and he will even admit that but he can also be very caring. Our relationship works for me, but thats probably because of the transference and wanting him to be my dad and since the only dads I have know have not been good I am more willing to put up with things that hurt me. And I am sure if I came out and actually talked about how I feel about what he did then he would apologize. I am sure he will apologize next time I see him anyways and my response when he does that was going to be "whatever"
Manipulative behavior is very hard to get away from. It was the only thing I could use growing up to get people to know how upset or hurt I was. No one actually wanted me to come out and say it cause they didnt want to hear what they were doing is wrong. So its hard for me to do it now even though my P and T are telling me to talk about the feelings and work through it. They keep telling me that there is positive transference when I am just so in love with my P and then there is the negative transference which is what I am feeling now. I have to work through the negative transference just like I do the positive part of it. They told me that most people quit therapy when negative transference shows up because it is so much easier to talk to someone when you are in love with them or happy with them than it is when you are angry. The key is to push through that anger to fix the issues that are under all of the transference.
I used to be more scared and think about being embarrassed by what I was going to do or say but I got to the point where I was like "Im either going to sit here and wish I could say it and regret it or regret not going after what I wanted or I can just react how I think I need to react to get what I want and see what happens." It drives my P crazy because I do push the limits so much. He says he wishes I could just relax and not do it for even just one week...which I am trying to do that for this week just to prove I can before I see him next time. He tells me exactly what I cant do which is call and text or email him every day, but because I believe I am his favorite patient (he just doesnt know it yet) and I do what I want to do and if I want to talk to him then I will call him whether I have a good reason or not. If I want to see him I will go to his neighborhood or come up with some reason to stop by his office. I think what makes him more mad than anything is that he knows I am making the reasons up. He threatens to stop seeing me all the time (which he has done once in the past) and I know its possible for him to do that. He keeps telling me that I am doing this to try to push him away because lately I have been working on harder issues and letting him get too close, and I agree with him, but that doesnt mean I can stop it. Plus I tell him if he wants me to do what he wants then he needs to give me some kind of motivation to do it. Last time I told him if he doesnt want me calling every day than let me call every two weeks cause thats half way between sessions so I have something to work towards that will motivate me, or that he could start giving me hugs like I want at every session that I do good and not call him betweens sessions unless its an emergency. He hasnt agreed to either of those yet but Ill keep pushing until I get it. Last time he was going to make me wait 5 weeks to see him instead of my usual 4. I told him that was not an option. He said I could make it and I told him "if you are going to be out of town during my usual week to visit than make it three weeks." He argued with me at first so I just told him that if he makes me wait five weeks then I will call him way more than I usually do, so lets just do it my way. I got my three week appointment
Im still at the point where I know what I should do is go in there and discuss the anger and I might do that part way through the session but I am sure I will do something I described above and I will make him drag it out of me because that will make me feel better. I have to work on not being so manipulative and passive aggressive...but it is so fun
I would talk to your T. Because they are trained to see through that stuff he more than likely will, but I dont think even my P would chase me on something like that. He would wait patiently until I decided to come back and see him and talk about it, which is because he knows me well enough to know if I get away with it once I will do it again. If you dont feel like you can talk to him in person right now I would write every thing down and give it to him in a letter and at the end of the letter ask him to either call you or email you. I usually do that because its easier for me to at least know part of their response through email before talking in person. It makes it less scary.
Manipulative behavior is very hard to get away from. It was the only thing I could use growing up to get people to know how upset or hurt I was. No one actually wanted me to come out and say it cause they didnt want to hear what they were doing is wrong. So its hard for me to do it now even though my P and T are telling me to talk about the feelings and work through it. They keep telling me that there is positive transference when I am just so in love with my P and then there is the negative transference which is what I am feeling now. I have to work through the negative transference just like I do the positive part of it. They told me that most people quit therapy when negative transference shows up because it is so much easier to talk to someone when you are in love with them or happy with them than it is when you are angry. The key is to push through that anger to fix the issues that are under all of the transference.
I used to be more scared and think about being embarrassed by what I was going to do or say but I got to the point where I was like "Im either going to sit here and wish I could say it and regret it or regret not going after what I wanted or I can just react how I think I need to react to get what I want and see what happens." It drives my P crazy because I do push the limits so much. He says he wishes I could just relax and not do it for even just one week...which I am trying to do that for this week just to prove I can before I see him next time. He tells me exactly what I cant do which is call and text or email him every day, but because I believe I am his favorite patient (he just doesnt know it yet) and I do what I want to do and if I want to talk to him then I will call him whether I have a good reason or not. If I want to see him I will go to his neighborhood or come up with some reason to stop by his office. I think what makes him more mad than anything is that he knows I am making the reasons up. He threatens to stop seeing me all the time (which he has done once in the past) and I know its possible for him to do that. He keeps telling me that I am doing this to try to push him away because lately I have been working on harder issues and letting him get too close, and I agree with him, but that doesnt mean I can stop it. Plus I tell him if he wants me to do what he wants then he needs to give me some kind of motivation to do it. Last time I told him if he doesnt want me calling every day than let me call every two weeks cause thats half way between sessions so I have something to work towards that will motivate me, or that he could start giving me hugs like I want at every session that I do good and not call him betweens sessions unless its an emergency. He hasnt agreed to either of those yet but Ill keep pushing until I get it. Last time he was going to make me wait 5 weeks to see him instead of my usual 4. I told him that was not an option. He said I could make it and I told him "if you are going to be out of town during my usual week to visit than make it three weeks." He argued with me at first so I just told him that if he makes me wait five weeks then I will call him way more than I usually do, so lets just do it my way. I got my three week appointment
Im still at the point where I know what I should do is go in there and discuss the anger and I might do that part way through the session but I am sure I will do something I described above and I will make him drag it out of me because that will make me feel better. I have to work on not being so manipulative and passive aggressive...but it is so fun
I would talk to your T. Because they are trained to see through that stuff he more than likely will, but I dont think even my P would chase me on something like that. He would wait patiently until I decided to come back and see him and talk about it, which is because he knows me well enough to know if I get away with it once I will do it again. If you dont feel like you can talk to him in person right now I would write every thing down and give it to him in a letter and at the end of the letter ask him to either call you or email you. I usually do that because its easier for me to at least know part of their response through email before talking in person. It makes it less scary.
I would also write in the letter about how you feel when he dozed off and the other things you have mentioned. I would be completely honest about all of it just to get it out there. Whether you see him again or not its better to be honest than regret doing it later.
Its funny that you mention the stalking...that is something that we joke around a lot about with me. Pretty much every one makes that comment. I actually have a shirt I bought just to wear to therapy that said "you cant make someone love you. You can only STALK them and hope for the best." I wore it long after the big time stalking was over with. He was not impressed I did the same thing to my husband and it just worked with him. He was one of my bosses at work. We sold Kirbys and I made sure I was on his van every day, after work I would go to the bar he hung out with, I became friends with the person he lived with just to have a reason to go over there, I would find reasons to call him all the time. He wasnt real happy about it in the beginning, but he finally realized that I loved him so much that I was willing to go through all of that just to see him even if I wasnt going to get to talk to him at least just get a glimpse of him. We are now married going on five years with three kids.
I will be honest and say that I have thought about my P when having sex with my husband but thats on a rare occasion when things are really screwed up for me. If Im going to think about my P that way it will not be when my husband is around because I do love him and I know he and I will be together. I have even told my P that before I was married if he would have given me a chance to be with him I would have done it with out thinking. But now that I am married if I said I wanted to have sex with him and he said okay I would back out because of my husband. I got to this point when my old T asked me to just imagine what I would do if my P said yes to having sex. Right away the first though in my head was "what about my husband that would hurt him, and my kids too, I cant do that."
Part of my thing too is that this isnt the first guy to be like this to me. I was in love with my first older guy at age 6 and he was 24. I would have done anything to be with him but he kept saying I just wasnt old enough. 20 years later and when I hear his name or see a picture of him my heart still stops. There are still feelings left. There have been many people in between that guy and my P that have all been older authority figure type people. The feelings never completely left for any of them. As time went by the pain of not seeing them or talking to them got a little easier to deal with but the feelings are still there. So I know that the only way for me to get through these feelings and work through what is really underneath it (and I still have no idea what that is yet) is to keep seeing my P and to talk about what is going on and the feelings and find out where they come from and fix it. If I stop seeing him then there will just be another guy to take his place and I dont want that. With my P I at least know for sure that he will not do anything with me or cross that boundary in any way at all and I would rather it thins stay that way with him for now while I work through it. Some of the other older guys werent that nice about it and had sex with me or abused me so at least with him I know Im safe in that area.
It is true that I am a time slot for him. Its only 30 minutes once a month (Im going to try to get it to once every three weeks) and I do pay for his services. But I know that there is more to it than just that and that he really does care about me. He has been there for me on phone calls after hours during true emergencies. He talks to my husband to find out what is going on with me so he can know how to best help me. He doesnt really have set time limits on sessions so even if it means running late he will let the session go longer for patients if thats what needs to happen. He also understands that we are having money problems right now and if I cant pay for a session I can still come and pay later. He actually just cut my rate in half to make it more affordable. I owe him over $1000 and am working hard to pay it off but he doesnt freak out about it. Im not saying I am his special patient (even though I like to believe i am his favorite cause I am his most challenging) but that he truly cares about all his patients or they would not be his patient. He has no problem firing patients, trust me, I know, I have been there! But he let me come back two years later.
I know he gets frustrated with me and my manipulative behavior and I get frustrated with him when my behavior drives him to the point of being so rude and mean like he was the other day. But instead of running away from him I am going to stick it out and how to fix this problem and for me I am doing that because I know if I dont he wont be the last guy I am going to be in this situation with, so it might as well be fixed with him and make him the last one...plus he is the best looking out of all the other guys with his blonde hair, blue eyes, and sexy body
Its funny that you mention the stalking...that is something that we joke around a lot about with me. Pretty much every one makes that comment. I actually have a shirt I bought just to wear to therapy that said "you cant make someone love you. You can only STALK them and hope for the best." I wore it long after the big time stalking was over with. He was not impressed
I did the same thing to my husband and it just worked with him. He was one of my bosses at work. We sold Kirbys and I made sure I was on his van every day, after work I would go to the bar he hung out with, I became friends with the person he lived with just to have a reason to go over there, I would find reasons to call him all the time. He wasnt real happy about it in the beginning, but he finally realized that I loved him so much that I was willing to go through all of that just to see him even if I wasnt going to get to talk to him at least just get a glimpse of him. We are now married going on five years with three kids. I will be honest and say that I have thought about my P when having sex with my husband but thats on a rare occasion when things are really screwed up for me. If Im going to think about my P that way it will not be when my husband is around because I do love him and I know he and I will be together. I have even told my P that before I was married if he would have given me a chance to be with him I would have done it with out thinking. But now that I am married if I said I wanted to have sex with him and he said okay I would back out because of my husband. I got to this point when my old T asked me to just imagine what I would do if my P said yes to having sex. Right away the first though in my head was "what about my husband that would hurt him, and my kids too, I cant do that."
Part of my thing too is that this isnt the first guy to be like this to me. I was in love with my first older guy at age 6 and he was 24. I would have done anything to be with him but he kept saying I just wasnt old enough. 20 years later and when I hear his name or see a picture of him my heart still stops. There are still feelings left. There have been many people in between that guy and my P that have all been older authority figure type people. The feelings never completely left for any of them. As time went by the pain of not seeing them or talking to them got a little easier to deal with but the feelings are still there. So I know that the only way for me to get through these feelings and work through what is really underneath it (and I still have no idea what that is yet) is to keep seeing my P and to talk about what is going on and the feelings and find out where they come from and fix it. If I stop seeing him then there will just be another guy to take his place and I dont want that. With my P I at least know for sure that he will not do anything with me or cross that boundary in any way at all and I would rather it thins stay that way with him for now while I work through it. Some of the other older guys werent that nice about it and had sex with me or abused me so at least with him I know Im safe in that area.
It is true that I am a time slot for him. Its only 30 minutes once a month (Im going to try to get it to once every three weeks) and I do pay for his services. But I know that there is more to it than just that and that he really does care about me. He has been there for me on phone calls after hours during true emergencies. He talks to my husband to find out what is going on with me so he can know how to best help me. He doesnt really have set time limits on sessions so even if it means running late he will let the session go longer for patients if thats what needs to happen. He also understands that we are having money problems right now and if I cant pay for a session I can still come and pay later. He actually just cut my rate in half to make it more affordable. I owe him over $1000 and am working hard to pay it off but he doesnt freak out about it. Im not saying I am his special patient (even though I like to believe i am his favorite cause I am his most challenging) but that he truly cares about all his patients or they would not be his patient. He has no problem firing patients, trust me, I know, I have been there! But he let me come back two years later.
I know he gets frustrated with me and my manipulative behavior and I get frustrated with him when my behavior drives him to the point of being so rude and mean like he was the other day. But instead of running away from him I am going to stick it out and how to fix this problem and for me I am doing that because I know if I dont he wont be the last guy I am going to be in this situation with, so it might as well be fixed with him and make him the last one...plus he is the best looking out of all the other guys with his blonde hair, blue eyes, and sexy body
quote:Do you mean this in a way that, because I feel attracted towards him, and have projected onto him so many times that I wouldn't want to go because of that attachment?
Perhaps I meant that if there is this sort of attachment already that's when the real therapy begins and it is worth to continue. As Jones said: you feel strongly and you want to be chased? And you wrote that you "say what you don't mean"?
quote:Or do you mean that it is good to stay with a therapist that a client has a transference issue with? Because I would be interested in hearing why it would be good to stay in that circumstance. I'm still new at it... and haven't seen many good points over the transference issue.
Well, that depends of course on the situation. If the situation gets bad, of course you shouldn't stay. I can't clarify, because I am fairly new to this stuff. I mean the transference is not the reason to leave, other things may be, but not this bloody thing, I suppose.
I understand that the therapy really put you off. Or is it just about this guy?
I see that I am completely different then you, and my ways of dealing with fear of "what somebody may think about me" are completely different. So I hope you don't mind me thinking out loud.
You are just waaaay more temperamental then I am.quote:I think our lives will be lived in a narrow range, if one pencil-pusher is having such an effect on us! That is why I need to get AWAY from my T, he seems to be causing the very same kind of obsession or "neurosis" that a therapist is supposed to help remedy.
Well, yeah... but unfortunately it is not just this one pencil-pusher, because it is happening all over again with different people, so something has to be done to stop it. I believe that something is to go through it once and for all. Apparently this obsession has to happen with a therapist so he can help with it for good. That's why I'm in therapy.
P.S. Pippi, I think this guy is a saint.
quote:Originally posted by Jones:
BUT - and I wonder if you have this trouble too - I WANT HER TO CHASE ME! I want her to really really want to know, to care, to demonstrate all that. It feels like what I neeeed. When I write about it like this I think hm, that's such a powerful position for ME to put myself in - making her jump through hoops so that I don't feel exposed. so if she comes to care for me, I hold all the cards and control the situation.
But I wonder if one can ever really *receive* care from that position. I have this sneaky scary feeling that maybe the love and care and attention only actually sticks and means something when you come to it through open, willing vulnerability. Putting yourSELF forward, saying what you mean, being honest.
Ew, gross.
Well, I am in a pickle because I think I just terminated myself. Now I am panicking because my T isn't exactly begging me to come back, and what if it isn't really what I want after all? I thought she WOULD chase me, at least a little. Instead I think she has failed my testing because it seemed so easy for her to let me go. The thing is, I feel I was totally honest with her about what my issues are. She should not be guessing or mind reading as to what I am feeling right now. I know she will allow me to come back if I want to swallow my pride, but she won't give me what I need, and now I also don't know if I trust that she truly cares. I am vascillating back and forth between panic & hopelessness, rageful tears, and numbness.
MH, go back and try again.
I'm feeling a bit stupid now, about testing my T. I just did that and it made me feel so happy, but now something in me is tellig me, oh come on, this doesn't mean anything. While before I thought if he does that (the chance is between 10 to 1%) that means he cares. Well, I don't regret running this little test on him, but I'm feeling a bit silly now...
But still I would like to encourage you not to give up on her.
I'm feeling a bit stupid now, about testing my T. I just did that and it made me feel so happy, but now something in me is tellig me, oh come on, this doesn't mean anything. While before I thought if he does that (the chance is between 10 to 1%) that means he cares. Well, I don't regret running this little test on him, but I'm feeling a bit silly now...
But still I would like to encourage you not to give up on her.
MH-
My P would not chase me if I left. He cares but he would not chase after me. It is my choice if I want to be there or not and that therapy wont work if I am there because he keeps chasing after me. It is what I have done my whole life to people. I have yelled and cussed at him and thrown tantrums and said I hated him only to call him back later begging for forgiveness or to still walk into the next appointment that I swore I was not coming too. He never cancels the appointment for me, I have to call and do that so even if I tell him I am never coming back I can always swallow my pride and show up. I have done it more than once over the years and it is hard to do. Just remember that if you decide to swallow that pride and go back in there that they do understand what we are going through and that therapy is a hard thing to do. My has always welcomed me back in a very caring way and just wants to talk about what was so hard that made me react that way so that we can work through. Therapists expect that we are going to act out, especially if there is transference involved. Therapy is just hard and painful but my P always says "if therapy is not painful then you arent doing it right" and I have come to learn that is very true. And your T would probably be the easiest and most forgiving person to learn to start swallowing that pride with.... at least mine has been.
And my P is a saint and is just so perfect...Im sure no one else who isnt as in love with him as I am feels the same way but he is perfect for me and no matter what he says I am still his favorite patient
My P would not chase me if I left. He cares but he would not chase after me. It is my choice if I want to be there or not and that therapy wont work if I am there because he keeps chasing after me. It is what I have done my whole life to people. I have yelled and cussed at him and thrown tantrums and said I hated him only to call him back later begging for forgiveness or to still walk into the next appointment that I swore I was not coming too. He never cancels the appointment for me, I have to call and do that so even if I tell him I am never coming back I can always swallow my pride and show up. I have done it more than once over the years and it is hard to do. Just remember that if you decide to swallow that pride and go back in there that they do understand what we are going through and that therapy is a hard thing to do. My has always welcomed me back in a very caring way and just wants to talk about what was so hard that made me react that way so that we can work through. Therapists expect that we are going to act out, especially if there is transference involved. Therapy is just hard and painful but my P always says "if therapy is not painful then you arent doing it right" and I have come to learn that is very true. And your T would probably be the easiest and most forgiving person to learn to start swallowing that pride with.... at least mine has been.
And my P is a saint and is just so perfect...Im sure no one else who isnt as in love with him as I am feels the same way but he is perfect for me and no matter what he says I am still his favorite patient
I just wanted my T to have some attachment to ME, for crying out loud. I hate that I need her but she doesn't need me back - so obviously one-sided. I hate that I am desperate between sessions. What kind of life is this? She says she cares enough to let me do what I must [i.e., quit therapy] and that shows her "true caring" - not the selfish kind. I say BS, it sounds like cold, distant apathy to me. She doesn't care if I leave. She didn't even try to change my mind. If I go back to her now it is like saying its OK if she is apathetic. And it's NOT OK! It hurts!!!!! 
How can this pain heal me? How can this one-way attachment prove anything other than that I am unloveable! I need to go back to NOT needing ANYONE, but I don't know how.
How can this pain heal me? How can this one-way attachment prove anything other than that I am unloveable! I need to go back to NOT needing ANYONE, but I don't know how.
I'm learning so much from this conversation. My sympathy to you MH, and to you Caeti, for the big storms you're going through with this.
I like what Pippi says here, it seems really important. It's hard to get that therapy is something WE choose for OURSELVES. For me it's like - well then I don't want it because a) it's lonely and b) it's not important.
wait - it's not important because I CHOOSE IT FOR MYSELF? It's scary that when I look around my life I see I live like this. I only invest in stuff if someone else wants it more than I do. The stuff that is important to me most of all gets floated out to sea. This is a half-life, with lots of obligation, trappedness, deference to the pains of others, loss of my dreams. It's as if it's more comfortable this way - to live half-forced into everything, in the safety of someone else's desires.
Lonely? My T is so present. I push her away all the time. I have no idea what is possible in this relationship and most of the time don't want to know. So the loneliness doesn't come from her....
MH, I can hear how much pain you're in. It's a horrible situation but it seems like there's this little rustling seed making itself known - the seed of your will to do this difficult, painful thing as an act of care for YOURSELF. to choose it, to be allowed to choose, to be safe to choose, to drive the car, steer the ship, to receive on YOUR terms, because you want to receive, from someone who is willing (but not forced) to give to you, someone capable and competent and steady and centred....
let us know how you're going, and remember that even the Terminator of all terminators said "I'll be back".
quote:My P would not chase me if I left. He cares but he would not chase after me. It is my choice if I want to be there or not and that therapy wont work if I am there because he keeps chasing after me.
I like what Pippi says here, it seems really important. It's hard to get that therapy is something WE choose for OURSELVES. For me it's like - well then I don't want it because a) it's lonely and b) it's not important.
wait - it's not important because I CHOOSE IT FOR MYSELF? It's scary that when I look around my life I see I live like this. I only invest in stuff if someone else wants it more than I do. The stuff that is important to me most of all gets floated out to sea. This is a half-life, with lots of obligation, trappedness, deference to the pains of others, loss of my dreams. It's as if it's more comfortable this way - to live half-forced into everything, in the safety of someone else's desires.
Lonely? My T is so present. I push her away all the time. I have no idea what is possible in this relationship and most of the time don't want to know. So the loneliness doesn't come from her....
MH, I can hear how much pain you're in. It's a horrible situation but it seems like there's this little rustling seed making itself known - the seed of your will to do this difficult, painful thing as an act of care for YOURSELF. to choose it, to be allowed to choose, to be safe to choose, to drive the car, steer the ship, to receive on YOUR terms, because you want to receive, from someone who is willing (but not forced) to give to you, someone capable and competent and steady and centred....
let us know how you're going, and remember that even the Terminator of all terminators said "I'll be back".
I feel like you do Jones, never investing in anything for myself, in fact, the reason I am in therapy is to survive so my boys won't think I didn't love them enough to stay alive and fight for them.
Hi Halo -
I can understand that. For me it feels safer to rely on what someone else wants/needs than on my own ambivalence. At times in my life when I've felt really depressed that's what's got me through too. Your boys do need you. I think if you keep fighting, then one day your own sense of wanting life and happiness for yourself will be that strong too.
I can understand that. For me it feels safer to rely on what someone else wants/needs than on my own ambivalence. At times in my life when I've felt really depressed that's what's got me through too. Your boys do need you. I think if you keep fighting, then one day your own sense of wanting life and happiness for yourself will be that strong too.
I went back to my T today. My resolve to shield myself from pain couldn't outweigh my need for attachment, I guess. Pathetic, perhaps. But for the moment - and I don't know how long this moment will last but I hope I can hold onto it - I am glad I went back. Therapy is damn hard, but at this stage it is harder going without it. I talked to my T about what Jones said, about the lonely, unworthy feeling of going for myself instead of going for someone else. She says I can't accept much of what she has to offer me until I start loving myself enough to come for myself. I'm still trying to digest that, because I don't want to accept it.
My T and I talked briefly about my needing some sort of connection to her between appointments to get me through. What I am going to try next time is tape recording our session so that I can listen to her voice during the week. I was very relieved that she was open to this idea. Hopefully that will also help prevent me from distorting the memory and meaning of various comments she makes when I analyze the session later in my mind. I just hope I can block out the sound of my own monotone voice enough to focus on hers.
My T and I talked briefly about my needing some sort of connection to her between appointments to get me through. What I am going to try next time is tape recording our session so that I can listen to her voice during the week. I was very relieved that she was open to this idea. Hopefully that will also help prevent me from distorting the memory and meaning of various comments she makes when I analyze the session later in my mind. I just hope I can block out the sound of my own monotone voice enough to focus on hers.
Im glad to hear you went back. I know how you feel about all of this because I am fighting the urge to just quit on my P. I wish mine would do something for me like yours is doing with the recording. I told my P I needed something that would give me a connection to him between sessions and thats why I call him and save texts and voice mails and he just said that is something I have to learn to do for myself. I thought about stealing something out of his office or waiting room, something small thats worth nothing but would belong to him to give me some kind of connection to him but I dont know if I would do that.
I recorded my session with my P once just so I could hear his voice when I wasnt in session. I didnt talk to him about it before and it did not go well. i had the tape recorder in my pocket it and it ended up clicking off before the session was over and he heard it and wanted to know what it was so I of course had to come out and be honest with him about it. He was very upset and almost stopped seeing me over it. He gave me the next couple of weeks to think about what I needed to do because of what I did, which he thought it meant to give the tape back to him. I felt so bad that I finally did give it to him at the next session. That was the only time he ever went way over our time so I had no reason to believe I would have got caught or the tape would run out of time since usually only get 20-30 minutes with him (but thats how my luck always is) I now wish I still had it because the only thing I have with his voice is the voice mail with the angry message from Tuesday night when he was basically telling me it was over and if I wanted any change of still seeing him I had 2 minutes to call him back. I dont really want to hear that over and over again but at least its still his voice.
I thought about trying that again sometime but our relationship is so rocky and back and forth right now that I am not even willing to give it a try right now. Maybe Ill talk to him about it and doing it the honest way maybe he wont be so mad about it or might even agree to it.
I recorded my session with my P once just so I could hear his voice when I wasnt in session. I didnt talk to him about it before and it did not go well. i had the tape recorder in my pocket it and it ended up clicking off before the session was over and he heard it and wanted to know what it was so I of course had to come out and be honest with him about it. He was very upset and almost stopped seeing me over it. He gave me the next couple of weeks to think about what I needed to do because of what I did, which he thought it meant to give the tape back to him. I felt so bad that I finally did give it to him at the next session. That was the only time he ever went way over our time so I had no reason to believe I would have got caught or the tape would run out of time since usually only get 20-30 minutes with him (but thats how my luck always is) I now wish I still had it because the only thing I have with his voice is the voice mail with the angry message from Tuesday night when he was basically telling me it was over and if I wanted any change of still seeing him I had 2 minutes to call him back. I dont really want to hear that over and over again but at least its still his voice.
I thought about trying that again sometime but our relationship is so rocky and back and forth right now that I am not even willing to give it a try right now. Maybe Ill talk to him about it and doing it the honest way maybe he wont be so mad about it or might even agree to it.
Pippi, I hope you don't mind, but I talked to my T today about your recent experience with your P because it has been bothering me and increasing my fear and insecurity about therapy. She said it sounded like your P was being unethical, because professionals don't play abandonment games and especially not with people who have abandonment issues. She said there are very few reasons that justify terminating someone against their will. My T has been practicing for over 20 years and in all that time she has only threatened a client with termination two times. She said both times they worked through the serious violation involved so that termination was avoided. I feel so bad for what you are going through right now.
I really dont mind you talking to her about it because I really do like to have other professionals opinions on what is going on between me and him and how to solve it. Right now I am trying to figure some way for us to get out of this cycle that we are in of me making him mad, him threatening to stop seeing me, me freaking out and feeling like I need to call him to hear his voice to know that everything is okay and then he gets mad again and the cycle continues.
I am going to talk to him about this situation and see what he says and see what he thinks about the ethical part of it. I want him to realize that its not just me that sees a problem with it. I some times wish I wasnt so in love with him so that I could just walk away, but I really do want to work this out and make things okay between us and get to where I can talk and open up even more to him. But it does make sense to me that because I have been abandoned so much that it wouldnt be the smartest or nicest thing to do to threaten to abandon me and I dont think its in my best interest. I almost wish that I could make the appointment for sooner to deal with this sooner but the problem with that is that he is going to be out of town the week after next so I will have to actually wait the whole three weeks.
My problem now is trying to figure out who to explain this all to him and how to get over my fear of talking to him. I am afraid to talk to any one about how I feel especially if it involves me being hurt or anything like that because I am suppose to be the tough one that never shows emotions or breaks down. I have no idea how to get past it. I can go through my head over and over again about how I am going to do it and how the conversation will go but as soon as I sit down and look at him the fear takes over and I cant get the words out. I will write stuff down which helps so he at least knows what I write down but then I still cant talk about it after he read its. I need some way to get past the fear!
I am going to talk to him about this situation and see what he says and see what he thinks about the ethical part of it. I want him to realize that its not just me that sees a problem with it. I some times wish I wasnt so in love with him so that I could just walk away, but I really do want to work this out and make things okay between us and get to where I can talk and open up even more to him. But it does make sense to me that because I have been abandoned so much that it wouldnt be the smartest or nicest thing to do to threaten to abandon me and I dont think its in my best interest. I almost wish that I could make the appointment for sooner to deal with this sooner but the problem with that is that he is going to be out of town the week after next so I will have to actually wait the whole three weeks.
My problem now is trying to figure out who to explain this all to him and how to get over my fear of talking to him. I am afraid to talk to any one about how I feel especially if it involves me being hurt or anything like that because I am suppose to be the tough one that never shows emotions or breaks down. I have no idea how to get past it. I can go through my head over and over again about how I am going to do it and how the conversation will go but as soon as I sit down and look at him the fear takes over and I cant get the words out. I will write stuff down which helps so he at least knows what I write down but then I still cant talk about it after he read its. I need some way to get past the fear!
Pippi,
I think the tricky part is that he is not actually your therapist is he? And you are not actually see him for therapy sessions since it is only every 3 weeks for 20 minutes, isn't it? Maybe it is fair of him not to walk away from you knowing that he means so much and you need him. But you need him to be your therapist and he is not your therapist. I can't imagine seeing somebody for 20 minutes every couple of weeks. It must be tormenting! It's like being constantly thirsty and getting only few drops to drink. I can't see how can you feel secure in this relationship. Way too rocky.
I think the tricky part is that he is not actually your therapist is he? And you are not actually see him for therapy sessions since it is only every 3 weeks for 20 minutes, isn't it? Maybe it is fair of him not to walk away from you knowing that he means so much and you need him. But you need him to be your therapist and he is not your therapist. I can't imagine seeing somebody for 20 minutes every couple of weeks. It must be tormenting! It's like being constantly thirsty and getting only few drops to drink. I can't see how can you feel secure in this relationship. Way too rocky.
Hi Pippi,
I think Amazon has an interesting point there. When I think about it, I often feel like it takes me forty minutes to warm up to my t, and I see her every week. Maybe you are asking too much of yourself (and he is asking too much of you) to try to process all the feelings you have about this relationship in that really limited contact. There's no way I'd be able to spit stuff out straightaway under those circumstances. Maybe your psyche is trying to keep you safe by not letting you - telling you that you need a more secure environment.
How often are you seeing your other T now, the woman? Is there a chance you could see her more often? I know you're not in love with her, so it's not the same, but she could maybe take more of the weight of helping you process those feelings.
I think Amazon has an interesting point there. When I think about it, I often feel like it takes me forty minutes to warm up to my t, and I see her every week. Maybe you are asking too much of yourself (and he is asking too much of you) to try to process all the feelings you have about this relationship in that really limited contact. There's no way I'd be able to spit stuff out straightaway under those circumstances. Maybe your psyche is trying to keep you safe by not letting you - telling you that you need a more secure environment.
How often are you seeing your other T now, the woman? Is there a chance you could see her more often? I know you're not in love with her, so it's not the same, but she could maybe take more of the weight of helping you process those feelings.
He is not actually my therapist but we do therapy. He does do therapy with some patients but that costs more money. The session we have is set up for med check/psychotherapy for 20-30 minutes. If I open up and am honest and can actually start talking than he will usually go longer. It is hard only seeing him once every four weeks which is why we moved it to every three weeks. I cant afford much more than that. But it is like you talk about where you are constantly thirsty and only get a few drops which is probably why I feel the need to contact him so much in between sessions. I wish I could see him more often and for longer and he would probably let me if I could afford it. Actually, he would probably let me even if I couldnt afford it but I already owe him so much money that I dont want to owe him any more than I already do.
I am seeing my other therapist every other week right now. We just decided that two weeks ago so I will see her again this Tuesday. Seeing her every other week is only a temporary thing but I am also seeing a lady at church for christian counseling and I am doing that every other week. She is helping a lot and we have started talking about the transference and feelings from a christian view point. My therapist that I see every 2 weeks is kind of weird about transference. She thinks any transference is a reason to immediately stop seeing the patient so she is hard to talk to about the transference. My psychiatrist said he is willing to talk to her about things and work out a plan and has called and left her messages over and over again but she has not called him back. The lady at church has offered to go to an appointment with me and maybe that will help me talk about things better cause she will be there to back me up and she will help me be able to keep talking when I start to shut down. We will talk about all the feelings ahead of time so that she will know what needs to be said and then she will be there to support me through this. Which is really nice of her since she doesnt have to and she doesnt get paid for any visits. I was suppose to meet with her on Wednesday night which I was excited about cause we could have talked about how I feel about the whole seeing him hug someone else but she had to cancel at the last minutes so now I have to wait until next Wednesday or possibly Sunday if I get to see her at church.
But yall do make good points.
I am seeing my other therapist every other week right now. We just decided that two weeks ago so I will see her again this Tuesday. Seeing her every other week is only a temporary thing but I am also seeing a lady at church for christian counseling and I am doing that every other week. She is helping a lot and we have started talking about the transference and feelings from a christian view point. My therapist that I see every 2 weeks is kind of weird about transference. She thinks any transference is a reason to immediately stop seeing the patient so she is hard to talk to about the transference. My psychiatrist said he is willing to talk to her about things and work out a plan and has called and left her messages over and over again but she has not called him back. The lady at church has offered to go to an appointment with me and maybe that will help me talk about things better cause she will be there to back me up and she will help me be able to keep talking when I start to shut down. We will talk about all the feelings ahead of time so that she will know what needs to be said and then she will be there to support me through this. Which is really nice of her since she doesnt have to and she doesnt get paid for any visits. I was suppose to meet with her on Wednesday night which I was excited about cause we could have talked about how I feel about the whole seeing him hug someone else but she had to cancel at the last minutes so now I have to wait until next Wednesday or possibly Sunday if I get to see her at church.
But yall do make good points.