I can't believe this. I feel like the world's biggest T cyber stalker. I have been searching for stuff about my T again today. I don't even know why, either. I found her son has a Flickr account with a set of about 30 photos of the interior and exterior of her house taken during a remodel two years ago. I saw the entire main level of the house! It was all just the house, nothing personal, as everything must have been moved downstairs so they could work on the main floor, but I saw her living space. I even saw her in it, in jeans and a sweat shirt. Weird. Saw her H in the front room sitting in an armchair. I've seen photos of him before, so no big deal. But I feel like I've totally violated my T's privacy now. Like I felt that way already from all the internet searching I've done on her in the past, but this was just one step TOO FAR.

I also visited her daughter's Facebook last week and while scrolling down through I saw that she had 'liked' a site or software or something that will tell her who has visited her profile. So I'm sure once she checks that and sees me on there she'll tell my T. I think she added that feature because my T warned all her kids about me or other patients like me doing the cyber stalking. Her son with the Flickr account is the one whose Facebook account took me to photos of her grandkids and another daughter in the past, and his account is suddenly locked up so I know she told him. I'm so stupid.

The worst thing though is that last week I was driving around town on the night I knew my T had her addiction/substance abuse meeting at the hospital so I drove down that way and her office lights were on and the blinds were open. There was a perfect parking spot so that I could see into her office. I sat there for half an hour watching her have two conversations; one with a woman and another with a man before she finally gathered her purse, turned off her computer and then the lights. I was hoping that she would come out the doors to the parking lot where I was parked so I could see which car she got in, as I've been really curious about what kind of car she drives. WTH? No such luck. She must park out in the parking terrace in the employee parking where she knows she can't be easily stalked. Smart T.

I feel awful about all of this. WTH is wrong with me? I promised my T when I spilled the beans about my stalking issues before that I wouldn't do this stuff again and here I am in the same situation, only this time I feel it's worse. MUCH WORSE. She could totally terminate me for this stuff, and while I don't think she will if I tell her, she's going to be really upset with me and wonder why I have done this. And I don't even have a good sound reason. I don't even know why myself!! I don't see her for another week. She called me this morning to tell me she didn't see me on her schedule this week and asked me why. She was worried that I had been cancelled out by her staff because she has a workshop tomorrow. It's been two weeks since my last session and I have to wait another week. I think this extra week is just too much for me.

I've had all kinds of weird fears and confusion and strange thoughts going around in my head the last couple weeks. I am free of my ruminating/obsessive thoughts about my T for a while (thanks to medication, but I'm going off it now) so now other things about her and my therapy are suddenly coming up and bringing all sorts of questions and fears with them. I don't know if that's partly why I've been doing this searching/stalking stuff again or what, but it's making me feel horrible about myself. I really don't know how I'm going to break this to my T. She's going to be angry and disappointed in me, not to mention that I'm sure she'll feel violated. I would. And I know I have to tell her. My conscience won't let me keep it a secret. The guilt will eat me alive. Why do I do this to myself? WHY????

Hi MTF...I'm not sure why we do this... yes I do it too. Just came on after doing my own searching....I do think it's a way to get closer to them, to put them in some place in the world aside from their office. Maybe it somehow makes us feel safer to know who they are outside of the office walls. Not really sure. In my case right now I think I'm looking for some clue as to why my T changed personality seemingly overnight. What is going on with him? He seems to be this huge mystery all of a sudden and I'm craving some kind of answer that makes sense to me.

In your case, you are also trying to get closer to your T and you have not seen her for awhile so that is understandable. I would never confess this stuff so I give you credit for having the courage to do so. While my T was away I went back to his office to look at the spot where everything came crashing down on me when the cops came that day. I sit there and look at the street and his front door and I try to make sense of how my life changed that day. Because I was so activated and dissociated through much of that experience I have only fuzzy memory of how it all happened. I can't ask my T because he won't talk to me now and I am left with trying to put pieces together... and not having much luck with it.

I'm sorry this is troubling you so much. Go easy on yourself and know that we all do this. You are not alone.

TN

quote:

Originally posted by More Than Fine:
I found her son has a Flickr account with a set of about 30 photos of the interior and exterior of her house taken during a remodel two years ago.

Wow! I’ve done some pretty serious online stalking, but I’ve never hit the jackpot like that! I would probably be thrilled if I could find something like that, but I understand what you mean about violating her privacy. What a predicament…

quote:

I also visited her daughter's Facebook last week and while scrolling down through I saw that she had 'liked' a site or software or something that will tell her who has visited her profile.

Oh gosh, I’m always paranoid when I’m stalking my T or his wife that they are going to somehow find out. I have imagined his wife telling him, “there is this person named ***** who visited my website 560 times today. Do you know who she is?” But it still doesn’t stop me from stalking them

I do understand you feeling guilty about all of this, but I guess to me it doesn’t sound that weird. I mean, I’ve tried stalking my T too. Unfortunately, I’ve been able to find out very little. As to the ‘why do I do this to myself’ question, I ask myself the same exact thing. I really have no idea why I feel like I have to. I guess it just goes along with wanting to know him so badly, and wanting to know him in the real world in anyway possible. Sorry, I don't have any answers. I'm in the same boat!

Mac

Hi MTF,

Popped in to see how all are doing - I feel for you being in this situation again, it must really hurt. I wanted to say a couple of things. One - the "see who's checking your profile" groups are scams - they either don't do anything at all, or they spread viruses. There is no technical way to check who has seen your profile. If you do a google on those groups, you'll see lots of reports of this.

Two - how come you're going off the medication? Do you think this is the cause of the return of the obsessive stuff? I think it's really important to recognise that there is very likely a biochemical component to whatever's going on here - that's why the medication has been helping you. So this is not your fault, dear MTF. It's something you're struggling with, something you want help with and can ask for help with. I think you should report this relapse to your T as soon as you can in the same way you would report a headache if your doctor had been treating you for that and it came back. You are really suffering through this - much more than anyone else you are watching/thinking about. It's the brave, safe thing to do to ask for help with it - you've shown before that you can do that, and your T has shown before that she can handle it. It's okay that this hasn't been fixed over night - just keep working towards that with your T.


Thinking of you - I hope it gets easier soon.

J

Hi MTF,
I'm sorry for what you're going through. I've been there when I've went out hunting and then found something that really made me feel like I've crossed a line. We're driven by this deep inchoate pre-verbal biologically driven need to move closer to our attachment figure, on some level it feels likes a matter of life and death. And so we go searching, but when we actually hit pay dirt, it's like the adult part of ourselves realizes that we're not supposed to know this stuff and all the guilt and remorse sets in. It's a sickening feeling. But please try to have compassion on yourself. You really aren't trying to intrude on your Ts life or hurt her in any way, you're desperately trying to make yourself feel safe. And I think she's capable of understanding that. I know when I told my T about googling him one of the things he told me was that he really understood someone driving by his home or calling his home phone. He understood that need that drives us to find out more so he didn't feel threatened by it. I think being honest with your T will see you through this. Hang in there.

AG

Hi all,

Thanks for the messages. Unfortunately I still feel like crap and I'm scared out of my mind to tell my T all of this. I get more scared every time I think about it. I'm finding myself one minute trying to tell myself I don't need to tell her, and then the next I'm convincing myself that the only way out of this is to tell her all of it, as hard and ugly and painful as it is going to be. And I thought I was scared LAST TIME I put this stuff out there to her. At least that was in a letter I left with her over a weekend and she had time to think about it. This time it's going to have to be in person, as I promised her no more letters. I might just print out my original post here and hand it to her so she can read it while I sit there and bawl my eyes out on the couch. I'm sure she's going to be shocked. She didn't really even get the whole idea of why I would want to drive by her house last time (which I never have, because I told her I feel like it is her private sanctuary and a sort of sacred space that I never intended to violate--what a liar I've made of myself!), so why would she get the desire to want to see the inside of her home, or to know what kind of car she drives? She is certainly going to feel like I've violated her privacy to the max by seeing the interior of her house. I would die if some person I didn't really know who was coming to me for mental/emotional health help had seen photos of me in my home, seen my bedroom, bathroom, dining area, kitchen, front room, etc., even if it was just the walls and not much more. I would feel sick about it! Mostly because I would NEVER invite them there myself, so knowing that they had access to that would make me really angry. I am sure she'll be angry at her son. He didn't even live there at the time he took the photos and I'm sure he didn't ask her or her husband if they were okay with him putting the photos up on the web. But will she be more upset with him or with me for it? It's going to be in the heat of the moment that she has to decide that, and I am just sure it will be me over her son.

I can't decide if I should call her and leave a voice mail about all of this and tell her I understand if she wants to transfer me and leave it up to her, or if I want to face her on Wednesday next week and sit there in all my shame and discomfort. I know I'll freeze up and be unable to really talk and say what I need to say. I'm just getting sicker by the minute. I don't even want to face her I'm so ashamed of myself. Last time was hard enough, and this time it's SO MUCH WORSE...

Hey, there, MTF...I'm so sorry you are in such torment about all of this googling. I can totally understand where you are coming from, I go through it too with something different, but the feelings are the same. So I definitely do not want to minimize any of the feelings you are enduring here...but can I just say a couple of things? Take a deep breath. Now, look objectively at what you have done...looked at some pictures that were online and available for public viewing. You have told your T in the past that you have a propensity to find out more about her personal life...she is aware of this. It is up to her, if it makes her as uncomfortable as you think it does, to *take care of herself* in this situation. MTF, I suspect that in the past, your T has not been bothered by this much, and that, for some reason, you almost want her to be bothered by it. If you are like me, it is almost like you've done this "terrible" thing, you feel so much guilt for it, and you almost *need* someone to validate that guilt, to say, *OMG, MTF, I CAN"T believe you would do such a horrible, unspeakable thing, how could you"... and so on. (If I am off base, just say, but this is how the scenario plays out for me.) When that kind of response is not forthcoming, it is almost, a dissapointment, mixed with some relief. Now, if you can just try to see, you are not so bad for doing this. You have no intention of hurting your T. You are longing for a deeper connection. And I suspect, there might be some kind of unconscious reasons for why we do this kind of thing that causes us so much anxiety and desire to be *punished* or to be told, you are right, you are bad- for what we see, in such a maginified light, as *horrible.* It's the old, "I am bad, and must make myself BE bad" or something like that, in order to weirdly compensate or have some kind of insurance, or whatever...it's just psychological stuff I don't really understand, but it's there. The reality is that, what you have done, taken in the context it was done in, is really not that big a deal. I have googled my T. If I lived in his town, you could be sure, i drive by his house, opr try to be where he is, see what he is up to...and I too, would feel unreasonable level of guilt over what is not that big a deal. I think the thing that bothers, is we feel like we are "taking" something that does not belong to us. And I think you need to do this, because you need badly, your T to tell you that she understands that it is not a big deal, (not a big deal because she know YOU) even if it is not the greatest thing in some ways, and that she understands why you would want to do such a thing, and perhaps, even to *go ahead* she trusts you. I think you need her to make this about you, and what your needs are, and to have you both talk about those needs, what is motivating, and so on. It could even be (and I could be wrong) that if you heard such a thing from her, it would help you to relax enough to not feel so much pressure to google her. But I don't know. The crux, is that ALL of this must be talked about open and honestly. Take a deep breath before your session...recognize, interiorly, that your T is not your mom...and that she is here to help you, and that is what you pay her for...and then if you can, speak...says the queeen of clamming up and being unable to speak! If not, I suggest you print this whole thread out and take it with you, and BEG her to read it during the session, and BEG her to please try to see it from your perspective. See how she does.

In the meantime, know, you are no danger, you are not creepy, there is nothing here that is criminal or wicked, you ARE a good person who is seeking comfort and love, and that is healthy in itself -and that basically, you are ok...though like the rest of us you have some problems to work through about how you feel about yourself, and that will take some time and effort. Breathe deep, MTF- even if your T doesn't respond in the way you really DO NEED her to...the fact of the matter is that, you *really* are ok, and that googling your T and trying to see what kind of car she drives, or looking at her through her window in her office, and such, does NOT make you a bad or creepy person AT ALL.

Love,

BB

Dear MTF

Count me in the "Amen" to BB`s post!
MTF, - i donno if it helps to know, but i am a "full-time stalker", and i have done a lot "worse" things than you have.. some of the things my T knows about, and i used to be (are sometimes)) a total mess with guilty/shameful feelings for all these, before telling him (some) of those things i have found out about him when i have "stalked". I so (painfully) relate to your story, its therefor a bit triggering for me to read and reply on this, but for whatever its worh to you- dont drag yourself down with guilty and shameful feelings. You (we) are so normal!
Your actions are so understandable and just a very well-intended wish(?) to feel more close to your T..
- I use to walk by my T`s house/office (or wherever i imagine he might be) just to feel somehow safe and...something.. Like i cant have enough of his presens..and like i am so overwhelmed by curiousity(?). It drives me nuts sometimes! (no- very often! OK- Every day! )
I`ve done SO meny things in order to find out all kinds of stuff about my T and slowly i have learned to axept this "drive/need" in me..So now (after 1,5 year in therapy) the obsessive need to "go detective" on him all the time is slowly fading away.. I think talking about this with your T (as scary and shameful as it feels, trust me- i know!) wount harm your relation in any way that you fear. Your honestly should just be credited! I have "confessed" to my T some of the things i`ve done, that i also truly imagined was totally unaxeptable and horrible, but there was no punishment waiting for me... Just a huge reliefe (and surprise for me)- that he didnt even seemed shocked over what i had admited doing. (ex; googled him and so on)
I havent deared yet to talk with my T about ALL of it, but for me its a constant goal for me that i one day will feel safe enough to tell..and also not fear the total judgment and fear of being abondoned of him.

Again- I think BB post was full of wisdom at this, and answer your questions (and mine as well!) about all these.. Yet i just wanted to know your`re not alone having this problem/feelings and i hope it helps knowing that it most likely will change over the time! One day you wont find it so important anymore to figure out "whom your T really is-" questions..I really think its all about a attachment issue- and a need for safety- and yes-again- add everything BB said

Take Care MTF. And let us know what you decide- telling your T or not- whenever you`re ready, if you want to.
ps: Dont punish/beat up yourself in the meantime though! Because if you do- I would have to beat up myself for this too- propably a hundered times more than you, i`m sure!

Hi MTF

I do this all the time too....in fact, you would not believe what I have found out about my T. Her first husband was killed in a helicopter crash 20 odd years ago (she told me that)...I managed to find out where, when, etc and even found the Air Accident Investigation Report and then....to cap it all....I searched high and low to find an Airfix kit of the EXACT model of helicopter that he was killed in, and built it, designing and creating an IDENTICAL colour scheme and everything!!! Now THAT is creepy!! Worse still, I took it to my T to show her!!!! (but didn't say why I had built it!!!). THAT IS SCARY. That was two years ago....

I cannot believe I did that - my T said nothing....just admired the model. SHE MUST HAVE KNOWN!!! Now I think about it, I feel so guilty. What was I trying to achieve??? I kid myself that my 'googling' my therapist is about wanting to make a connection with her. I think it IS largely that, but then I think that I must have been a really scary creep to have done all that stuff with the helicopter....that is weird.

We are going through quite a shift in our relationship and I am owning up about all sorts of stuff at the moment....ET....and, (for me) worst of all how I used to have massive crushes on teachers at school and how I used to stalk them etc....SO SHE MUST KNOW!!!!

But how can I own up to that???? How can I tell her that?? I know I have to at some point....

It's a long story, but when I had crushes on teachers at school, I would be really badly behaved and nasty and spiteful to them. So what I did with my T and the helicopter was transference. Not only that but how ON EARTH I managed to find out so much information when she disclosed so little is quite beyond me. Except to say that that in itself was transference too, as it showed the lengths I would go to and the strengths I would exhibit in order to 'survive' the situation I was in when I was child (abuse, etc).

I feel an absolute creep for doing it though...what an absolutely horrendous thing to do

MTF,
Full confession time it seems.

I originally went to my T and told him about the goggling because I found a blog that his daughter-in-law had started about his first grandchild, a little girl. His DIL was writing it as if her daughter was writing it and my T had posted a response and actually used his real name as his username. (I know I know what ARE they thinking?). I ended up reading through the whole blog which included descriptions of vacations and visits and even some pictures of my T and his wife. I felt so incredibly guilty and like I had totally violated his privacy. He wasn't at all upset when I told him about it and was so gracious that it was almost upsetting. I was so upset with what I did that it would have almost been a relief for him to have been angry with me. But I was so very grateful for his reaction because I thought for sure that he was going to terminate me. But he said something very intersting which was that his son and DIL posted that stuff on the web knowing that anyone could read it, so I hadn't really done anything wrong. And I realized he had a point. I also realized that if he was really bothered by it, I'm sure he would have asked them to protect the content somehow. My T has never really sweated the self-disclosure about facts about his life. The wall slams down when it comes to his feelings or his needs.

So I have occasionally googled him again, although I really fight the impulse because often it can end up just hurting. But in the meantime, I want to tell you what I know.

I know his family owned a vinyard in Italy a few generations back. I know the place of employment of both his father and grandfather. I know what his brother does for a living and where he lives. I know the name of both of his sisters, a couple of aunts and some of his nephew and niecesI know the address he grew up at. I know about the car accident he was in when he was 19, his one year spent in seminary, where he did his undergrad and graduate degrees, where he's worked throughout his career. His engagement date, his wedding anniversary. His wive's maiden name and at least two of her jobs. I know both of his son's names, occupations, current locations, wive's names and kids names. I found pictures of his house in the tax records. I know he went to school with the therapist who works next store and covers for him when he's not available. I know when his mother died, I know his father remarried and I know when his father died. I know where his wife works now. There is a fair amount of this information that I found out directly from him.

But here's the real motherlode. The DIL who did the blog for his granddaughter? She's love's photography and posted the URL for her shutterfly account in the comments section of the blog, so I've been looking at family pictures for almost two years now. Last spring, they came home for a visit. I have pictures of my T playing with the grandkids. I've seen the inside and outside of his house. I even have pictures of him in a bathing suit(!). I haven't talked to him about it since that first time I told him I googled because I know I'm not doing anything with the info beyond knowing it and I know that he knows it's out there. Sometimes the pictures have been wonderful and sometimes they have been incredibly painful. There was one wonderful shot of him hugging his granddaughter that was really hard to see because I knew I'll never know what that's like. But there was also something wonderful about seeing him playing and interacting with his grandkids, which was that I had seen him have so many of the same looks and emotions and attunement in sessions with me. It's what finally taught me to believe it was really him in the sessions with me. That what I saw might be limitied but was very real.

I don't know if I'm just rationalizing but I've made my peace with the fact that I know that I'm not looking to invade his life, I just have this deep need to KNOW. And I have to admit that having pictures of him has been really helpful. I really just want you to know that you're not the only one who does this. And that other people can take it pretty far.

AG

Hi MTF,

I don't have much to offer you in the way of advice, especially because I think BB and AG said it all in their posts.

Big hugs, MTF, and keep posting!

Thanks everyone for you kind words of support to me. It means a lot.

I have to agree with you Kashley that BB and AG said it all in their posts.

BB, I don't know how you knew what to say, but you had me bawling for quite a while after I read your post. Thank you for understanding and for normalizing my issues. I wish my T could see my 'stuff' the way you do, as that would make things a whole lot easier. Unfortunately I don't think she does or will, and that is why I'm so scared to put this out there to her. But you are right. Openness and honesty are the best way to deal with this, even if it is scary. Thank you for your kind message to me!

AG, I don't believe I've ever read your full confession anywhere here, so I'm honored. I hate to say it though--I know a bucketload more about my T than you do about yours. And most of it I've found out through googling. Thanks for also helping to normalize my actions for me, as well as my feelings and what drives me to do this. I just wish I didn't feel so wrong and icky for doing it. That is why I have to tell my T about it. It's like my conscience just can't let me keep it a secret, even though it scares the hell out of me to tell her. I have to face the music. I understand what you mean about some pictures just being painful, and others being helpful. It's amazing to me the lengths some of us go to to feel a connection to our Ts. Thanks for your help, AG.

Draggers, Frog, PeaceQuest and Kashley:

Thank you for your kind words of support to me, and your understanding. It's nice to have that!

I'm so glad that my words were able to help you a little bit, MTF. and I hope you can hang onto that for little while...(easier said than done, I know!)

Peacequest- very nice to meet you...I just wanted to try to respond to you. Your situation seems a little bit different than MTF's. I wanted to say, that it is very likely that if you are disturbed by what you did, and feel so badly about it, that your reasons for doing it were probably different from what you think they were. Well, and if you wanted to hurt your T or these teachers someway, than try to think, why would you have such a reaction...maybe objectively, it may seem like it was horrendous to you, yet, it sounds to me like you are simply looking for a long time for love, and perhaps, not getting it are becoming understandably angry? But, Peacequest, I am not a T- so I know how difficult it would be to talk about, yet, this is the crux of why you are in T, to get help dealing with, right? and I believe any T worth their salt is more than equipped to help you deal with and talk about all of these reactions, even in relation to their person. You are not a bad person, you are just a badly hurting person. I strongly encourage you to tell your T what you wrote here, too, as chances are, she knows all this already and wants to help!

Peace-

BB

Hi BB - thanks for your reply. You are right, it was the right thing for me to tell her.

She didn't take it too well though, because I think it hit too much of a nerve in her.

I told my T as much as the fact that I had read the AAIB report into the crash. I didn't tell her the rest because (unfortunately) her reaction to the first bit was bad enough She was really freaked out She said that maybe "I had gone too far" and when I said that that was how I was afraid she would react, she said, "Well, ok....maybe you think you went too far too".

It was not good and now I feel really, really sick I can't eat and I have an overwhelming urge to cut myself.....worse still, all the feelings that I used to get of wanting to o/d have come back (don't worry, I won't do that). She hugged me at the end of the session, but she was clearly VERY shaken. At first, she did not want to let me leave the room - I said that it was the end of the session and I should go (she had another client after me), but she wanted me to stay - she knew there was more than what I had already told her. At one point, she almost pleaded with me to stay and tell her the rest - I think she thought that I had found out the cause of the crash (the AAIB could not determine the reason) - I made it clear to her that I knew nothing more than was in the report (I don't). It was a really weird experience and has really freaked me out, as the balance of 'control' flipped to me. I was very scared by this.

I know now for sure why they say therapy is so hard; as if all the ET etc stuff isn't hard enough.

BB - I am worried that you will think you should never have told me to tell her. This is not true - despite her reaction, I am glad I told her. It will be so, so hard to work through this with her, but I know I have to.

Boy this is tough sometimes.

PeaceQuest,

I'm so sorry you're feeling really sick about talking about this to your T. I agree with BB and you that it was the right thing to do. How sad that your T didn't handle it very well. I'm sure that having the control being turned to you at the end was really unnerving and scary. I'm so sorry.

Please don't do anything to yourself! Do you have anyone you can reach out to for support? A close friend? Even a crisis line? You sound very shaken and upset by this, and rightly so.

Please know that you did the right thing in being honest with your T about this. It is so hard for us, but we do need to work through it. Hugs to you, and please be good to yourself!