I'm feeling really hurt and tricked by my t. She said some stuff in session that just froze me, washed over the surface, I wasn't sure if she meant it or was trying to articulate something she was reading in me (like sometimes if I'm beating myself up, she'll say the unsayable stuff). I didn't respond and it's taken me 5 days of feeling out of sorts to figure out what I feel.

I was feeling the loss of a special relationship. It took me a lot to trust her with this relationship when we first talked about it, because I was scared she wouldn't understand. but she was really understanding and gave it a lot of respect. then last session she said 'so it wasn't special after all', and then later, something about how she was challenging me because people with 'fantasy relationships' lie to themselves a lot.

I feel like an armadillo, and she's just slid in under my armour with her spear and got me. I thought that she understood, but this just reads what I've shared in the meanest, saddest light. I try really hard to be honest with myself, and she doesn't seem to get that at all.

I'm sure we can repair this but I'm not sure I should. I don't know who she is or what she thinks, really; I'm scared to push it and try to find out because I don't want to be disappointed, and yet it doesn't feel safe. I don't want to patch it up, keep trusting blithely while my doubts to grow and grow under the surface.

(((((Jones)))))

Ouch...not fair, not fair. I am so sorry you are experiencing this. You know you opened up to take a big risk, hoping to be understood and safe. At first you thought you were, only to find out, maybe she doesn't understand after all, maybe it really isn't safe. This is exactly what I tried to do with my former T. I was so excited to finally have a T willing to listen to my story without judging...only to find out, he didn't really understand after all, not even close. Not that I didn't appreciate the effort...I think he really did extend himself as much as he could...but he really didn't get it, and carelessly said several things that felt exactly like that "spear under the armor" you described. It is the worst feeling. I kept trying to patch it up but it only got worse no matter what I did.

There have been no moments like this whatsoever with my current T. She has done nothing but validate and honor my feelings. I just returned from meeting with her this morning. One of the things I said to her today was I wish I would have found her when I was actively mourning the old BF because I would have liked to have worked through it with her. She never would have dismissed me or minimized my feelings as "not real" or "fantasy"...she would have tried to help me find out exactly where they were coming from, just like she is now.

The more I meet with her, the more I see that my former T and I were just really not a good fit at all. The more I met with him, the more unsafe it felt. The more I meet with her, the safer I feel. That's not to say it isn't hard, but the difficulties are clearly coming from me and my own defenses. They clearly are not coming from difficulties in being misunderstood and not heard.

How often has this happened? Is it the first time? Maybe you could tell her next time how hurt you felt, and why, and watch carefully how she responds. It must be hard right now to even consider admitting that, though, because in doing so, you are making yourself vulnerable yet one more time, which means you might get hurt one more time. But if you do...then you will know that maybe this T isn't the best fit for you after all. And if you don't...then your relationship will have grown.

Above all, keep trusting yourself, don't doubt the reality of your feelings just because she might turn out not to have the ability to understand. The special relationship you had really was special and you deserve to and need to be heard with empathy so you can heal. If she can't give you that, it's her shortcoming, not yours.

Please keep posting and let us know how it goes.

SG

Thanks, Strummergirl, for hearing me so well. It's a real relief to feel understood. I'm still out of sorts, had trouble sleeping last night because of this and my work commitments are such that I really don't need that at the moment. It's only a couple of days till my session, though.

There have been other times when I've felt misunderstood by her, and once early on she encouraged me to feel angry about it and to tell her.

I guess since then in our six months I haven't had to directly 'confront' her about anything - whenever I've felt misattuned I've been able to just slide my questions/doubts in in passing and my T usually catches the ball and addresses them in the same way.

She is often quite provocative or blunt in what she says to me and because I sometimes think like that too it usually doesn't unsettle me. I don't know if it's just her style or if it's a way she's chosen to work with me. And that's my overriding sense about the therapy - that I've got no idea what's really going on, or of her reasons for anything, and I avoid asking.

But I feel like I need to talk to her directly about this. Problem is I just don't trust myself or the process. I know we'll patch it up and I'll swing back to feeling like she's the greatest thing since Abba. But I still won't KNOW who she actually is or where things are really going.

And then I know this is also connected to the work we're doing on ambivalence....

Hi Jones,
I'm sorry for what you're going through, I know just how painful and confusing it can be. First of all, let me say that SG's response was very insightful and I agree with everything she said to you, especially about trusting yourself.

The thing that makes healing from these kinds of injuries are that the injuries themselves make it difficult to do what we need to do to get better. When you did not have good attunement or a caring other (or even more so were actively abused) you either weren't taught how to discern when your perceptions lined up with reality or you were outright told that what you KNEW to be true wasn't ("there's no abuse going on in this family"). So usually people with problematic pasts have a difficult time trusting their own perceptions. On the flip side, our experience has so entrenched the lesson that getting close to someone will get you hurt that we are constantly vigilant (think of a meercat lookout) for when the blow is going to fall and from which direction it will come.

So sometimes we ignore signals of danger we should pay attention to and other times we see malice where none exists. I spent a long time being very creative about looking for reasons to leave because moving closer to my T was so incredibly terrifying. On the other hand, you have people like SG or FOT who have had experience with bad Ts who didn't handle things at all well (or were outright exploiters). So how do you tell the difference?

My T throughout a long haul of being open about all kinds of feelings has always been very respectful and accepting of those feelings, even the ones that weren't so accurate. He has told me many times that the only way we know ourselves is in relationship. And that emotions come and go and sometimes they accurately reflect reality and sometimes they don't. So I asked him how you figured out when they did or didn't. And he told me "you have to ask."

You need to talk to your T and express how your feeling and see what she says. It may be that there may be misunderstandings that need to be cleared up. If that happens you'll know you can trust her. On the other hand, if you bring up being upset with her and she gets all defensive, can't hear you or tries to blame it on you, that's a good sign that you may be picking up on actual problems in the relationship and that you need to protect yourself.

I know that's its a terrifying thought to go in and be that open and you are risking getting hurt. But getting hurt won't kill you, it will just hurt and you've already survived a lot of that. And better that you know now before investing more time, energy and attachment in the relationship.

FWIW, I've felt the way you do on a number of occassions only to have it cleared up by talking about it. I remember once putting in an emergency call to my T and when he called back, he uncharacteristically rushed me off the phone (and my calls were usually only around 2-3 minutes). Things had been very intense and I was leaning on him very heavily. I was convinced that he was really frustrated and approaching burn out with me. I ended up sending him an (incredibly long, I know hard to believe ) email telling him my perception and offering to take a break from therapy if we needed to and I talked about not being sure about trusting my reaction.

I got an awesome answer, that he was rushed on the phone and he could see how I would see that as frustration but that he wasn't frustrated with me, he understood why I needed to contact him. And I should always ask when I felt that way so it could be clarified.

I would also add that one of the things I've most appreciated about him is that even though we have both acknowledged "transference" in the relationship in that my feelings have led to understandings about my past, he has openly acknowledged that my feelings are very real and valid and even that some of the attraction is about the here and now (while also assuring me that nothing will be acted on and keeping his feelings to himself). So I can see where calling it a "fantasy relationship" would sting. On the other hand, "fantasy" when discussing therapy does not have the same perjorative weight. Therapy is a "play" space where we have the freedom to consider things we wouldn't be able to otherwise. The word is also used to refer to things that simply are not possibilities such as having a relationship outside of therapy with our therapist. So it's not a statement of being deluded or immature but simply a description.

Just know that whatever happens you can come here for people who understand what you're going through.

AG

Thanks heaps, AG. I'll keep y'all posted. I know what you mean about the fantasy thing. In this context she was talking about delusion. I was saying that I wasn't entertaining certain hopes about a relationship I know is well over. Her: 'Really?' Me: 'I can't say anything, can I? I know you don't believe me.' Her: 'I'm challenging you because I know people who have fantasy relationships lie to themselves A LOT.'

I feel like this would have been fair a few months ago, but why doesn't she know by now that's not where I'm at?

Sorry, I'm just rehearsing the details because I DO want to talk to her about it but I'm scared I will chicken out. It feels so unnatural for me to tackle this stuff head on.

I guess the other thing that made it worse was that I had done some really hard work before the session making connections between what I was feeling and my childhood, and mentioned that I had been thinking about it in relation to my dad. Which is the first time I've really been willing to go near discussion of that relationship. And she didn't pick up on it, just left that alone and now it feels shut down again.

I'm so sick of wondering all the time what she is in control of and what she's not. How much of a plan she has and how much of what I feel is 'planted' deliberately because she wants us to go in a particular direction. I know that sounds paranoid. In fact I'd rather she was more in control of what's happening than less, but I know all of that IS just 'fantasy' and I need to start checking things out...

I'm wondering what I'm scared of if I do, and I think it's three things: that I'll be mocked, that she'll take the worst possible interpretation (as above) or that I'll be disappointed by what I find out.

But it's part of her job to have these conversations, right? Once I told her I wasn't into big, formal conversations with my husband and she said she thought I needed more of them. So she's not going to reject it if I bring stuff to her. And if she misinterprets me or turns out to be wrong for me, then yeah, as you guys say, at least I'll KNOW that I'm alone instead of assuming it.

... or, umm, instead of living in the fantasy of what I hope she is like.

Ugh.

It's so weird to come back and read what I wrote here - I feel like a different person to last week, I don't feel connected to that anger and distrust at all. As I approached my session today I felt all that recede, and although it was in the back of my head that I SHOULD talk about all this, it just sort of slipped away, and I knew I couldn't.

But the session felt really important somehow. I was keeping to work/life/schedule stuff because I didn't want to go near the other things, and she just worked with me on that, but somehow it became very intimate. I told her that I didn't feel like I could trust myself with my most cherished (creative) work aims, and she said very quietly "eye contact Jones, it IS possible and I am going to hold that for you. I have it and I am going to hold it until next week." The eye contact thing... sometimes she has a way of slipping things in with no emphasis at all as though she's not really saying them, it has the strangest effect.

So then she asked how that felt and I said it felt good not to be alone with it, and then she left ALL this silence and I sat there feeling sadder and sadder, and then uncomfortable... which she said we will talk about next week.

I'm guessing the other stuff will come up one way or another then. Some part of me cannot help but trust her really deeply. And another part doesn't know what the hell is going on. For now I just really hope she knows what she is doing as much as she seems to.

Jones, thank you for sharing that intimate experience. Even from this cyber distance I can feel goosebumps by imagining myself in your shoes. I really hope you can hold onto it until next week. It is really neat that your T is so attuned to you and that she has your trust. I hope you can hold onto the trust as well, because if you are like me then the doubts will start crowding in to rob you of the memory of being heard and understood. I wish you well from now until your next appointment!

hey blackbird - pretty name - it's nice to meet you. you're not interrupting at all; it's great to see another person on the board. how do you find it working with your t electronically?

jones

Hi Blackbird!
Welcome to the forums! I'm really glad that you've found someplace where you feel like you fit in. It's a great community and can really provide a lot of support. I must admit, that I am with Jones, I would love to hear how the remote therapy is working for you!

AG

Soafter reading these last couple of posts from blackbird I am wondering how do you get started with this kind of counseling? Online counseling might work out for me with my scheduling issues. What are the fees like and how do you get started with this type of therapy?

Hi lilangel02 and welcome to the forums! I just wanted to let you know that there are links for obtaining online counseling here on Myshrink.

Live counselors

I don't know much about it because I've never used it, but there's a lot of good info on this page and should be a good place to start.

AG

Hi Blackbird - no need for an apology! I haven't updated because I'm just feeling confused and disconnected from my T. She said we would talk about the uncomfortable silence last time, but we didn't - she forgot. I guess it wasn't a great day for her - she was yawning, didn't seem present.

When I saw that I thought "$%&#^! I'm boring her! I better pull out some stops..." and I tried to bring up how angry I'd been. I said that I'd been really upset last time after talking about that special relationship. Instead of getting that I'd been angry with her, she said "are you telling me that talking about it makes it hurt more?" and I got confused, waylaid, that was the end of that. I talked more about the 'fantasy relationship' thing and that it HADN'T been, she sort of agreed, sort of qualified what she meant, but still didn't get that I'd been angry.

Anyway, I'm so sick of not being able to say this stuff directly, so I tried writing a letter, and said more. I emailed the clinic to ask her if it would be ok to send a letter via attachment, but didn't hear back. And now I've kind of lost my nerve.

Part of the problem is that there's been a significant change in my therapy over the six months. We started with some family stuff and some discussion of trauma, she made attempts to talk directly about our relationship, some mention of attachment issues, all quite intense and I felt very overwhelmed. She floated the idea of EMDR in the new year.

And then she backed right off all that stuff. If I bring up family history she touches it very lightly and moves on. No mention of the EMDR. We focus on work & schedule stuff. I don't know if this is because a) she's decided actually I've processed that stuff enough and don't need to dwell on it any more; or b)I made a few mentions of really wanting my creative work to be in motion, so wants to get that sorted before dealing with the other stuff; or c) she doesn't think I want that kind of therapy; or d) she isn't actually skilled at that kind of therapy, or e) she doesn't want to overwhelm me, or f) she's just forgotten!

So I really identify with your comment that you "can't understand why he wouldn't spell this stuff out". It's kind of yuck, I feel like quitting too, because I just feel too confused. I feel like it should be so easy just to ask what's going on, but the thought makes me feel like an obsessive idiot. Like ok, I spend all this time reading message boards about how therapy should be, so I have this inflated & dramatic idea about what to expect or want and actually what I/we are doing is just simpler and I should settle. And I should just get on with things.... which, now that I've posted this screed, I will try to do!!

Thanks for asking - sorry about the brain-dump!

Jones

Hi Jones
Excuse me butting in to this coversation, i haven't posted before , but was interested in what you were saying about how your sessions were going.I have decided after several years of therapy that Ts seem to rarely give feedback as to where you are progress wise - it seems up to us to work it out and then pluck up courage to ask if we can't work it out. For some reason that seems really hard for me to do, so I just tend to think a lot about what I would like to ask, but never do. Maybe I am scared of what I might hear! Hope you might be braver than me . . .

Hi starfish,
I wanted to say welcome to the forums! I also wanted to urge you to speak up about your feelings and questions to your T. How your T sees your question is a completely legitimate question to ask your T. You may not get a straight answer mind you especially if your T believes that the only way for you to believe in your progress is to see it for yourself and that hearing it won't really work long term. But it's OK to ask. Actually it should be ok to say ANYTHING in therapy, that's the point. That you have a safe place to be able to express all of yourself and be met with acceptance and not have to fear being sent away. My T has a saying to describe therapy, that it's a place where you're safe enough to feel scared. It's going towards those fears and being as honest as we are capable of at any given time that allow us to grow and heal. I'm looking forward to getting to know you.

AG

Hi Starfish, Hi AG...
It's amazing how hard it can be just to ask simple, straightforward questions. I get away with not doing it because I can 'cope' without it. Not knowing won't send me into any crisis or anything. It just makes me sad & disconnected & dissatisfied.... I'm going to try again this week. Wish me luck.