Hi everybody,

I would like to add my thanks to BB, SF, DF, AG for posting about their experiences of body memories. I had heard of them but didn't really understand what they were until reading your descriptions. Now I realize that I hesitantly described one to my previous T in hopes of making sense of it. It was something I'd never told anyone but I'd always wondered about it. I felt kind of stupid even bringing it up, partly because it was so personal and embarrassing. He said it sounded like a trauma reaction but that's all, he didn't seem to think it was important enough to look at further, and I felt like I must be making too big of a deal about it so I didn't pursue it. But since reading your descriptions I've thought of another one I'd always wondered about too...so I will bring this up with the T I have now.

DF I read your post too before you took it down...and my heart just hurts to know you have been through so much horrific abuse...and I greatly admire you, and everyone else here, for your bravery in opening this up in your therapy, and to be willing to share it here. FWIW I think you verbalize beautifully. And I just loved your "feather" analogy

And BB, I agree with everything AG said about the way your T is behaving toward you. The T I have now is never, ever dismissive. Body language is an Extremely Important indicator of what is going on with a person, and it's just plain weird that he would be dismissive of your observations. The T I have now is always attentive, always open and relaxed and focused on me. I am very appreciative of it because I wouldn't feel safe with her otherwise, and I really do believe it is hard work to listen so well. I really think she should charge more for what she does. If she displayed the body language and other behaviors you described, it would definitely shut me down. So FWIW I don't think you are imagining it or projecting it.

SG

Dragonfly

Thank you so much for your incredible bravery and honesty. What happened to you was so very wrong - it is no wonder you find yourself in these difficult situations experiencing these terrible events again and again and my heart goes out you. Can I send you a strengthening hug for your wibbly moments as you wonder if the posting was ok? It was very much ok and will no doubt speak to both many people on this forum who have not had such experiences, as well as those that have. Our poor bodies cannot easily forget such injustices, even if our minds let us for a while.

Thank you again, take care,

starfish

Dragonfly

Thank you so much for reposting what you’d written. Reading the details of what’s been done to you has rendered me almost speechless - I can’t even begin to imagine how horrific it’s been for you and how unbelievably painful and terrifying it is for you having to deal with such things now. I am so angry about it how could anyone do such things. Sorry it’s not often I get so totally affected by someone else’s experiences but wow yours go way beyond nightmare land.

And thank you so much for explaining the way it finally emerges. Your posts have really helped me understand what goes on.

Got one question if you feel up to answering anymore on this frightening topic - now that you’ve started to make conscious connections between body pain and the past, are you able to assume that other body pain is actually body memory? I’m wondering because I’m guessing it would be both frightening but also confusing wondering whether a pain is a memory or actually a here and now pain unrelated to the past. Sorry I hope that isn’t triggering.

I really hope you are ok, and that the work you are doing with this will finally get you out of that nightmare. Please know that I am thinking of you :hug:

Dragonfly,

I have been following this thread and have read it all, even the post that you had deleted. I too have body memories... And I am so sorry for what you encountered in your life. No child should ever have to suffer so. (I can say that and mean it for other people). I continue to have body memories that I have learned from and those that are still a slight mystery to me. A part of me does not want to look into them. A part of me has decided to just put it all back into the box and just bury it. Any way, I just wanted to let you know that I feel for you and am honored to have been able to read your posts.

KS

Hi Dragonfly -

I'm so sorry you went through such horrible, horrible things.

I'm thinking of you, hoping you are taking care of yourself as you might need extra gentleness after posting this stuff.

Thinking too of the others in our community who have experienced these things, and sending warm thoughts to all of you.

KS
Hello from me, I don't think we've met
Thank you for you posting and I am too am so sorry for what you went through.

Iwould so agree with the

quote:

No child should ever have to suffer so. (I can say that and mean it for other people).

Do you mind if I ask you a question that struck me when I read that? You see I have had similar but slightly different, experiences myself, mostly tried to deny them, but now they've been bubbling up and out for a few years so I have had to start to painfully face them.

I find it hard to forgive myself or be compassionate to myself, tend to discount the enormity of what happened so I don't face the reality. My T often asks me how I would feel if what had happened to me had happened to someone else. That always puts me in a fix - why can I feel so strongly for others distress but not my own? Is that what you meant KS? I really don't know how I could deal with the reality - still not allowed myself to shed a tear for me - but was so very moved and saddened by Dragonfly's story. Does anybody have the same problem? Or ideas how to move this on? I feel so cold towards myself in sessions but it's only my defences I know.

starfish

Thanks Dragonfly

That is helpful for me. Helps to know I'm not the only one. . . again!! In answer to your suggestion, I agree cos children of that age always strike a chord with me and my heart -
I just can't bear to think about how others might have had similar, freaks me out totally. So with my stuff it's just easier to keep minimising too rather than face up to it's full awfullness

quote:

I am sat here thinking jeeeeeeeeeeez, this is the tame stuff! It isn't that bad guys!!

Exactly! Makes it so much easier to (not) deal with then. What if I did? Hmmmmm back to one of the first questions I ever asked here - just how do you cry? Feels all so scary, yet I know I can't move on unless I do. Sometimes wonder if I'll ever drop my guard enough.

So glad you've had a better day - it's been lovely - and the promise of spring in the air as always good and a sign of hope for me. Well done for the self soothing and nurturing DF - your T would be most impressed !!

starfish

No I'm not worried about crying infront of my T - she's probably the only person I could cry with and boy, we've talked about the pros and cons of it for so long. If I've ever got upset she has remained constant and caring - two things I never had from some people in my childhood. So I'm learning slowly that if I were to cry with her she wouldn't hurt me, leave me or punish me. I know that to be true but when I get upset it all goes out of the window and I freeze, ready for what must come next. I am the master of stopping myself crying, now I wonder if I ever will??

I always thought I never would cry - now I think one day I'll have to, to get rid of all this hurt inside me but it feels very very scary and I too am waiting with trepidation for the ton of bricks. Wonder what will happen and how I'll cope when I'm back home in the world and not in the safety of her office - where tears MIGHT be ok and safe-ish.

Any established cryers able to help??! Dare I ask, how was it for you??

starfish

SF & DF,

quote:

why can I feel so strongly for others distress but not my own? Is that what you meant KS?

That is exactly what I meant! My T continually asks me - "What would you say to a little girl who came up to you and told you she was being hurt?" Well, of course I would do all that I could to let her know that it wasn't her fault and those things should never happen - but when it comes to myself - what a joke - I deserved everything that I ever got (I know in my heart that is not true)!

As for crying... I am the queen of tears! I wish I could tell you the secret... But, I do not know what that is - I am a crier and always have been. I have spent my life in tears and no one gave a damn! I too heard "I'll give you something to cry about" well that didn't stop me at all, that just made me cry harder. I hate to cry alone - that scares the life out of me! When I cry I just want someone to hold me close and make my world all better! I have cried with my T and she is wonderful - I wish I could carry her with me in my pocket and pull her out when I need her!

KS

Hey guys... thought I'd pipe in for a sec and let you know about an old(ish) thread about my issues with crying in therapy... it was called 'Crying during sessions'. I got some pretty good responses and thought you all might find it helpful.

-CT

quote:

That always puts me in a fix - why can I feel so strongly for others distress but not my own?

I just wanted to throw out a few thoughts on why this happens because I know it's something I struggled with for a long time, still can occasionally to be honest. I think the heart of the problem is that on some level we really believe ourselves both to be responsible for what happened, and to be so worthless that how could we get upset about ANYTHING that happened to us?

We are driven to feel responsible for what happened out of an attempt to gain some sense of control over the situation. I discussed that in this post: Really, really mad but I'm including the part I'm referring to below (btw, this is a really good thread if you struggle with the whole "oh I'm making too big a deal of this, it wasn't trauma thing." Reading this thread will show you just how much of hot button that topic is for me. )

quote:

When there is ongoing trauma as children, the single strongest characteristic is our complete powerlessness to stop it. Powerlessness is a helpless feeling and can lead to despair because it brings you face to face with the fact that you can't do anything but endure. And realizing that could put you over the edge. So do you know what most traumatized kids do? They make it somehow about the person they are being responsible or causing it, because then, maybe, just maybe, they could control it. If you could just figure out what you were doing wrong, then it would stop. The problem is, we grow up, it stops, but we still believe we did something. I believed for years (decades, I'm old!) that I was intriniscally evil and repulsive, that I deserved the abuse from my father and as a matter of fact that my wanting affection and closeness and to be held presented a horrible temptation to my father and MADE him abuse me. Those are lies straight from the pit of hell. But they gave me hope that I could stop it, with the added benefit on preserving a "good" father. Can you see how it would work? That maybe your determination to make this somehow about a lack in you, of strength, of courage, of perserverence, of fortitude might be an attempt to retain control in what was an uncontrollable and as a matter of fact, an out of control, situation?

So if we're to blame then how can we feel bad about what happened?

Add to that the fact that when your needs are neglected, or you are used to meet another person's needs, what you hear on a very deep level is that you are worthless and you don't matter. You believe it. So when something good happens, you reject it because it doesn't fit with what you "know" to be the "truth." But when something bad happens, that fits your understanding so you can take in. So the sense of worthlessness runs very deep. When was the last time you saw someone get upset because someone kicked a trashcan? That was my image for so long of my father. That I was a human trashcan in which he dumped his rage, pain and shame. OK, so someone dumped trash in a trash can, what's the big deal?

Guess what, dear Reader? Right now I would bet a quite tidy sum of money that you are thinking "but you're not a trashcan, you didn't deserve that, it was horrible." And do you know why you're thinking that? Because you do NOT have deep rooted unconscious beliefs about my worthlessness or my responsibility. Without those emotions to cloud your perceptions, it's clear that I didn't cause the abuse; that no way in the world would a four year old EVER deserve to be treated that way.

I remember once discussing with my T about how responsible I felt for causing the abuse and I looked at him and said "the funny thing is that if someone else were sitting with us right now and saying exactly what I'm saying, I would see so clearly they were wrong, that they weren't responsible." and my T asked me "what's the difference?" And I answered that "my feelings are screaming so loudly at me that I am." He was so happy with that answer he practically handed me a lollipop!

OK, here's my favorite trick for understanding how wrong and/or bad what happened to you was (it was alluded to earlier in the thread): Picture a child the age you are or imagine that you are hearing about what happened to someone else, another poster on the forum and see how you feel. The reaction you have then is so much closer to the truth because it's not clouded by all the distortions and lies you learned WHILE you were being abused.

AG

Hi BB

Of course it is all right to just read and not reply, you seem to need time to gather your thoughts and feelings and that seems really sensible. Feeling overwhelmed is not pleasant so you must go with what your body tells you to in order to manage as you know best.

There is perhaps no rush (sometimes I am so impatient and at other times don't want to see what's staring me in the face)to work out if these difficult other pains are connected to anything that happened or if perhaps they are not. They may have an innocent cause that can be medically or otherwise explained that you can't see in the midst of evrything else, or maybe you might never know . . or they might be as a result of something else that's not apparent right now that's too hard to acknowledge. Just know that there are people here who have experienced all of these causes I am sure and can help you.

I have embarrassing body pains, I mostly know why but it's taken many many years for me to even acknowledge it to myself and then to have to try and tell my T - aaaaaaghhh . She never pushes or presses - I know it has to come from me when I am ready, but when I do tell her and we 'talk' (few fumbled words and many long silences from me) it's always like a tiny bit of the huge weight has been lifted from me and a few things fall into place, however difficult to acknowledge.

I hope this hasn't made things worse. Please don't reply if just reading is easier. I wanted to respond to your thoughts as best I could.

Do take care ((((BB)))

starfish

Oh BB

I feel for where you are right now (((BB)))

Firstly, you have been amazingly brave to e-mail your T with those questions. I think it was a really sensible move on your part and I am glad that he thought it was great. Interesting that he has asked you about the last session - wonder if he realised all was not well on reflection? I am glad too that you were able to say about how the yawning had left you feeling. I don't think it's the yawning I would find so difficult, my T hasn't as far as I can remember but if she were to I might assume that she'd been up too late or something BUT I do know I would have an apology from her if she ever thought she gave the impression of not being attentive, as she always is - very. So I can really see how that made you feel.

I hope the reply doesn't take to long - the waiting is harder than the posting in some ways. Then I guess you must decide on the trust issue and that's what's really hard. That has to be concrete before any work can be done. It took me years to fully trust my T - not because of anything on her part at all,but because I had to test and test and test her out to truly be sure of her, before I could trust her with my life. And now I know I can, but it has taken a very long time.

I am so sorry you're feeling bad about yourself. Remember that you have been strong before and functioned well before and you will again, but right now your brain's got a lot of sorting out to do that makes you feel like you're not coping. Look after yourself (and those little chicks ) and be gentle with yourself. I do hope his reply helps you decide what's best for you - and that it comes quickly.

starfish

Hey there Blackbird

I too wish there were some kind of litmus test of a T’s caring, a kind of formal checklist of things they have to complete in order to be deemed trustworthy.

Having said that I’m the kind of client who if I had Mother Teresa sitting opposite me I’d still be checking her out for trustworthiness. Knowing that about me, I tend to make myself give the T the benefit of the doubt (at least for a while!) and just assume he is caring and trustworthy, until proven otherwise. Doesn’t mean I do trust him, just that I’m more willing to take the odd risk on the assumption that he can be trusted. And if he says or does something that throws me (which is OFTEN) I pull him up on it. To me that’s the best criteria of trust so far, that each time I’ve had a go at him about saying/not saying something that has thrown me, he’s taken it really well. Which tells me so far anyway, that he can cock up and that that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to damage me. But I have to say it’s early days yet - never fear there is great potential for future major trust issues to arise.

I guess it’s a day by day thing. It sounds as if you are really disheartened by what’s been happening with your P. If I could push advice, I’d suggest that you not let that yawning incident go, it’s pretty pivotal in the whole trust and caring issue - I’d suggest talking again, and again about it until you are satisfied one way or the other that he is actually listening to and really hearing you. It’s about more than just his yawning, it’s more or less the present state of your relationship with him right there in miniature.

Sorry I’ve gone into lecture mode. I will get off my box now and go make some dinner.