I've been thinking a lot about eye contact lately... it's been mentioned here and there on these boards, but I wanted to start a thread on it so we have it a little more contained.

Basically, I suck at maintaining eye contact with my t. When we talk about surface things, I can look right at her and talk to her like she's actually a person. I can smile at her and laugh and make facial expressions... and I can look at her face without issues. But as soon and the "real" stuff starts to come out, I just can't look at her. I spend about 95% of my sessions staring at her white dry erase board, looking at the Expo markers (and secretly wishing I could make them all face the same direction because three of them have their lids facing one way and then the poor fourth one is facing the other way, like it's in time out!!!). Anyway, sometimes I even talk with my eyes shut, and other times I cover my face with a towel (when I'm crying). I'll look at anything BUT her!

I know my t looks at me the whole time, except if she looks away to think about something, but that's just briefly. Anytime I sheepishly glance her way, she's looking right at me... almost like she's been waiting for me. But I instantaneously get scared and look away if our eyes meet. I can't even explain it... I just can't talk and look at her. I start to wonder what she sees and why she won't look away. How can she not be disgusted by what she sees? How can she look at me when I tell her some of the awful things I tell her? And how can she bear to look at me when I CRY?

I've been wondering of late if she wants me to look back at her. I don't mean for her sake or anything, I just wonder if it would matter to her or if she'd think it was a big deal. I want to talk to her about it but I don't want the times I accidentally make eye contact with her to be anymore awkward than they already are. But part of me really wants to connect with her like that... and be able to maintain it and not freak out. But I don't want to have a staring contest either!!!

I guess I'm just wondering everyone's thoughts on this topic... I know it's a big deal for some and really difficult for others... I just kinda feel like I'm missing something by not looking at her, but I just feel really scared and I don't know why. It's so hard to see her face when I tell her something unpleasant (something that has happened, not that I've done) because she'll look sad or upset or bothered BECAUSE I've been hurt... and I don't know what to do with that. It's almost so validating that I don't buy it. And if I see her caring about me, it will be so much harder for me to dimiss her (lol, I guess that's kinda the point ).

I guess what it comes down to is that there is a small, young, watchful, quiet part of me that wants her to know everything about me, on the deepest of levels. I want her to hold me with her eyes... and I want to see the face of this person who really, deeply cares aboutme. I think there is only so far that I can go if I can't look at her. But on the other hand, there is this overbearing part of me that can't understand why she hasn't looked away... I think I'm afraid she'll finally look away if she really sees my eyes... that she'll finally see that I am nothing... that she'll finally see me the way I see me.

I'd appreciate any thoughts/experiences. Thanks guys.

-CT

This is one of my biggest issues in therapy too. I remember my first session I never looked higher than my T's shins. I used to think of eye contact as "staring" and even now I think it's ridiculous to have to look at people so much when you're talking to them. If it's just me and the therapist in the room, why would he need eye contact? Who else would I be listening to, come on.

My therapist has to fill out some kind of evaluation thing every six months or so. One of the areas on the first one he showed me was eye contact. And he rated it 60. And I was so pissed. At the time I thought it was really unfair that he would grade me on something I hadn't even been aware he was planning on grading, like giving me a test I didn't even know I had to study for. He tried on several occasions to explain what the 60 was for, but I didn't "get it." The next time I was evaluated I didn't even want to look at it. I figured a 60 was a failing grade and I hadn't discovered how to get good eye contact since then, so I knew it would be another bad grade.

I had a friend who also goes to the same therapist. When I got the 60, I told her about it, crying. It really bothered me that I didn't even know I was going to be observed for eye contact so I was telling her how hurt I was. Then eight months ago I was at an event with her in a group of people, and we were talking to some lady as we ate. Later that week, my "friend" started scolding me that it's no wonder I don't have many friends because I didn't even have eye contact with that lady that night! I saw red. How could she criticize me for something that I'm hurting about already?

When I told my T about that event, he explained the eye contact thing again. (I have a patient T!) And he said the 60 wasn't a GRADE, it was like a percentage of improvement (which is actually wow-holy-cow GOOD!). Then he told me eye contact doesn't measure how friendly you are (like my "friend" was implying) it measures how safe you feel. I finally got that. It made me feel good, then, that I was so shy at the event. Even with my "friend" there it shows I didn't feel safe. Some friend, eh?

Anyway, I totally get where you're coming from about feeling disgusting if my T looks at me when I glance at him. When I'm telling him something painful, from past experience I know people won't care so I'm expecting him to not care and to dismiss me as being a flake or emotional. When I was little and got upset about something, my parents would send me to my room for hours "don't come down till you stop crying"!! So in my session when I feel my heart start hurting I actually feel something shift inside so I will brace myself from the hurt so I won't cry. In my head I know it won't happen but I'm scared my T will say "Oh, you're crying, go home!"

A couple times my T has understood me so well, it felt like playing basketball .. like I would pass the ball to him and he'd just run with it dribbling all the way down the court. At those times, yes, I can look at him with amazement that he GETS it. And I've told him it felt like we were siamese twins and my body had the shared heart and his body had the shared mouth because he was saying everything my heart was feeling. And another time when it started feeling like this, I kept looking away because I felt shy that he knew so much from my heart and really wanted to bolt from the room, and he pleaded with me to please stay with him (in eye contact). You would think it would be scary to be held in eye contact so much talking about something painful but it made me feel incredibly understood.

I think my T is proud of me because those eye contact moments are rare for me, and he's the lucky one who gets to experience them.

Wow, I wrote so much!!

Hi, I so relate to this topic. I've been seeing my therapist for over 3 years now and i never look at her. Even if i am just talking about a job interview, my son or a night out. We have talked about it and i know its because i don't want to see any reaction on her face and the only reaction i expect to see is disgust etc.

I do try and glance at her every now and then and like you CT i feel that i missing out when i don't look her. I wish i could look at her but i just can't bring myself to do it

Hev

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Originally posted by monte:
You have a friend that goes to the same T?! Wow, that would be interesting? Do you compare notes?

I'm not friends with her anymore, but we would talk about him. When she admitted to him that she was in love with him, he insisted her husband had to attend any future sessions if she wanted to keep seeing him. So she was always really jealous of me because I go alone. She would grill me about my sessions and I started wondering if she really cared that I was hurting or if she WANTED me to hurt again just to be mean due to her jealousy or if she just wanted to talk about HIM. Over the summer I lied to my "friend" that I wasn't seeing the T anymore.

She had embarrassed me in front of a group of mutual friends of ours on a couple other occasions so I'm not speaking to her anymore. I've talked to my T about it (because basically I met her through him and I felt horrible that it didn't work out) but he doesn't fault me. Probably more than you wanted to know, right?

Oh I'm definitely in the non-eye contact in difficult times club. My T never takes her eyes off me and I never cease to be amazed at her unfailing concentration on the task in hand. I find my eyes (and my mind) wandering all over the place. . .I often look outside and imagine I was a little bird sat in the tree outside, with none of all this going on in my life and how liberating that would be....

I will not look at my T when I am upset or ashamed of myself (most of the time recently I fear ) I just can't bear to and cannot believe that she remains so positive towards me when I tell her what I do. She often makes me look at her - a painful process of removing my hands from covering my face and daring to peek at her; she says I need to see her face in order to reinforce her words that her opinion of me will not change whatever I tell her. That is so very helpful in the end, but an excruciating process for me to get to.

So a question I ask her often is: what if I were a bad person or did or said something wrong? Would her opinion of me change? What if I admitted to something dreadful for example? And her reply is always that she will always be truthful with me but there is nothing that I have ever told her that has changed her opinion and doesn't belive there will be.

Do you ask similar questions? What are your TS/Ps responses? I get stuck with the Unconditional Positive Regard thing in case they say things because it's almost their job to. Even though deep down I KNOW my T wouldn't do that I guess I'm afraid in case she sees what I really am

Does this make sense or am I the only one fretting over this??

starfish

starfish my T usually tells me that he cannot imagine ever getting mad at me and also that there is nothing that I could tell him that would make him change his good opinion of me. Of course, I'm always afraid I will find that ONE thing that will make him change his mind!

As for eye-contact...our is very good. I find that I get so much more out of a session if I'm looking at him and usually I'm looking directly into his eyes. There have been very few times that I have not kept good eye contact with him. One time I was really traumatically upset and sobbing and I covered my face. I asked him for a blanket and he asked me what I needed it for and I told him to put over my head so he can't see me. He told me that he could still see me even with the blanket and that I could not hide from him.

I find that by looking at him... even when I'm crying, I pick up so much more of his empathy and caring by the look of compassion I see in his eyes. The understanding and the ability to hear me comes through in the way he looks at me and also in his body language. There are brief times that I do look away from him when I'm thinking or sometimes I am drifting away to another place and he works to grab my attention back to him by his moving around.

Aside from all of this... he is just plain adorable and I love looking at him and I miss him when I'm away from him.

TN

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anyone else moved their chair? I think I'm going to give it ago ..

Well, I've sort of been doing a musical chairs thing lately if that counts. My T has 3 couches in her main office, so there are so many choices. Usually her clients choose between the 2 couches which are closest to her personal swivel recliner chair. The third couch is usually used only when she has large group sessions. But early in January I decided I wanted more physical distance between us, as well as a new perspective on the room, so I sat down on that 3rd couch furthest away from her chair (and the door). The look on my T's face was priceless, like she didn't know what to do next. Part way through the session she actually got out of her chair and sat on the floor in front of her chair in order to close the distance. But I found it to be a comforting spot and have sat there every visit since, until last week when I mixed it up again and sat on a closer couch. But now when my T sees me sit down on the 3rd couch, she heaves-drags her recliner a few feet closer to me to shorten the physical distance. She's not exactly a physically strong woman, so it takes all she's got. I sort of have this mixed feeling of "I'm so sorry I am making you use your muscles" and "Wow, isn't it neat that I have this power to make you come to me." I have offered to move her chair for her to alleviate my guilt, but she hasn't taken me up on it. However, last week when I said, "I think I'll sit closer today" she didn't hide her relief when she answered, "Good!"

quote:

Oh I'm definitely in the non-eye contact in difficult times club. My T never takes her eyes off me and I never cease to be amazed at her unfailing concentration on the task in hand.

Ditto to all that, starfish. Even though I break eye-contact constantly, whenever I venture to re-engage I always find my T right there waiting for me, and it is very comforting. Maybe it is one reason why I come away disturbed whenever we've had phone sessions, because though she can have a sweet voice there isn't quite the same level of connection. I do wish I could make myself hold eye-contact longer.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Cipher,

MH... my T has offered a few times to do phone sessions when he could not be around and I have declined. Mostly because I need to SEE him and feel his body language while we talk. I have chatted with him on the phone for a few minutes here and there when I've contacted him for emergency reassurance and support but I don't think I would like to have a formal session that way.

As for musical chairs LOL...my T has two places you can sit in his office. The couch which is on the other side of the coffee table from his swivel, rolling rocker or a french chair which is just opposite his chair on the same side of the coffee table. When I first started with him I would sit on the couch but I didn't like it for two reasons... one that it was a saggy couch that I would sink into and feel like I was sitting in a hole LOL and secondly...I just felt too far away from him and the table felt like a barrier between us. So one day I moved to the french chair and we had our session and then at the end of the session I asked him... so do you want to say anything about my changing seats? And he smiled and asked me "do you want to tell me?" So I told him it's because I didn't like the couch and he said...is it too low for you? And I hesitated but I told him that it was too far away from him and I didn't like the coffee table being there. He grinned and said...so you want to be closer to me and I nodded. He told me I was very brave to change seats and also to tell him why I changed seats. He said that not many people would admit to that, even if they did switch seats. I have sat there ever since.

On the topic of seats... has anyone ever sat in their T's chair? My T suggested one time that we exchange seats and I agreed. We also switched roles and I was the T and he was ME! It was funny and silly and we laughed a lot but it was also very sobering to see and hear how well he knew me and could say the things that I would have said to him. It was also sobering to feel the weight of having to sit in his chair and the responsibility that he has in trying to help patients. It was almost a relief to switch back to our real roles. But we did agree to do it again one day. It was an interesting experience.

TN

quote:

Then he told me eye contact doesn't measure how friendly you are (like my "friend" was implying) it measures how safe you feel.

I haven't even looked at my T (besides maybe her feet and hands)for the last three sessions. This is very unusual for me since even though I can't seem to hold constant eye contact with her for a whole session I do meet her gaze as often as I can. It is an effort but worth it I think. But a few weeks ago I went back to work and had to go from two sessions a week down to one. This has been an incredibly painful transition and I have found it impossible to look at her. I have tried but it feels too dangerous right now - like I will fall apart from the overwhelming grief that will pour over me if I accept the fact that now I have to make do with less. I didn't notice it the first session that I didn't look at her until later when I realized I couldn't really picture her facial expressions like I usually can. The next session I tried really hard and was only able to make eye contact for like a millisecond. This last session I didn't even try. I just tried to explain why I feel so alone and unhappy about the change in schedule. It was a good session though, she let me curl up into a little ball on the couch and let me put my head on a pillow on her lap. This was definitely a first but was so exactly what I needed. I haven't felt this hopeful and at peace for a very long time. The best thing was that it was her suggestion - I didn't have to ask even though I have been thinking about asking if I could do this for weeks! It was like getting that perfect gift from a friend who knows you really well. It was really quite amazing.

Hi Everyone! Thanks for all the responses!!! Sorry i've kinda dropped off the face of the earth the last few days... I had a mini vacation with the hubby for spring break. I just got back today and have been busy catching up with what's been happening on here! i don't have time/energy to respond to this thread, or all the others, but I will try to over the next few days! i just wanted you all to know that I'm not ignoring your responses to me or being unsupportive of everyone else's stuff!!!!

Anywho, I need to go prep for my session in the morning... need to figure out wtf I wanna talk about with my t!! Plus I have to unpack and sleep... I'm exhausted!!!!!

Later,
-CT

Hi CT...so glad you were able to get away for a few days and relax. I hope you had a good time. Post when you can and feel like up have the energy. Good luck with your session tomorrow. I have one too.

TN

Great topic, CT!

I could relate to so many things that have already been said. In general I can meet my T's eyes pretty well. I do have to look away (or close my eyes) sometimes to gather my thoughts (as if I'm looking for them up near the ceiling, or behind my eyelids ). Not out of fear, but just because looking into someone's eyes usually feels so intimate that it can be distracting and make me lose my train of thought.

I look away more when I'm feeling vulnerable, such as when I'm talking about something I'm embarrassed or ashamed of. My hands get a very thorough examination as they are wringing in my lap. And when I cry, I cup my hand over my eyes so I can "hide". In those cases I don't want her to see my shame or guilt and I don't want to see any negative expressions on her face. But I also feel vulnerable when she says something tender or empathetic, something that indicates she is "seeing" me in a kind way. When I look away from her then, I feel as though I'm pushing her away. It's harder to describe that feeling...I want this attention, it feels good, but if she looks into my eyes and sees how much I want it, she'll change her mind and take it away again? So maybe it's a way of pretending I don't really want it? And I'm always careful when I leave not to make eye contact because then she might think I want a hug.

And of course sexual attraction makes me feel extremely vulnerable, but I don't need to worry about that with my current T. It was a factor with my previous T, though.

One of my most favorite passages in A General Theory of Love has to do with eye contact within the context of limbic resonance and connection and attunement with another human being. A baby will search his/her mother's face for not just eye contact, but for responsiveness as a whole in time to his/her own. The baby wants and needs what GTOL calls a "mutually responsive interaction". It is very powerful, a very necessary part of development...so no wonder we are feeling this power in the therapy room, and no wonder it is frightening sometimes when we feel vulnerable.

Here is that passage I like so much (one of them anyway):

"Within the effulgence of their new brain, mammals developed a capacity we call limbic resonance - a symphony of mutual exchange and internal adaptation whereby two mammals become attuned to each other's inner states. It is limbic resonance that makes looking into the face of another emotionally responsive creature a multi-layered experience. Instead of seeing a pair of eyes as two bespeckled buttons, when we look into the ocular portals to a limbic brain our vision goes deep: the sensations multiply, just as two mirrors placed in opposition create a shimmering ricochet of reflections whose depths recede into infinity. Eye contact, although it occurs over a gap of yards, is not a metaphor. When we meet the gaze of another, two nervous systems achieve a palpable and intimate apposition."

Then they go on to say that "So familiar and expected is the neural attunement of limbic resonance that people find its absence disturbing." When my husband and I started therapy, one of my "complaints" was that I don't feel emotionally intimate with him. Another was that he avoids my eyes most of the time. It really does feel "disturbing" to me when I look to him for that "limbic connection" and he won't look back at me (I don't mean constantly - just at certain times when people generally would look at each other). This helped me to see the connection and let him know I would like more eye contact so I can feel closer to him. It hasn't changed a lot yet but we are still working on it.

SG

p.s. CT and TN - I hope your sessions went well today

It feels good to know that I am not alone in this. Eye contact is the thing I have the hardest time with and that includes everyone not just my P but even with my husband. I never made eye contact with my parents growing up. If we had an important conversation my head was always under my blanket and I still do that to my husband and it drives him crazy!

My P has brought up the eye contact thing and I have tried to work on it but I get scared. There are times that at the end of the session I feel good because there was a little bit of eye contact and I felt really understood. And there are times that he is telling me something right after I told him something I thought was horrible and he will tell me "you have to look at me because right now you need to see my response not just hear it." And he is right cause those times make me feel so good and safe and make me feel like he really understands and cares and that he really is there for me and I can trust him. But there are other times that I am too scared to look at him cause I feel that if he looks in my eyes he will know what is deep down inside of me and he will hate me for it. He will know how terrible I really am and how disgusting I really am and he will leave me and worst of all he will hate me. Those are the times deep down I wish I could look at him cause I really do want him to know me on every level possible and know the real me and everything about me so that I can have someone that will know all of that and still love and care about me. But I guess right now I dont believe that is truly possible.

I stare out the window most of the time when I am seeing him and he says it makes it feel like I am telling him "F U I dont care what you have to say." But that is not it at all. Im just scared. Which I am hoping that is one of the things that will be fixed cause my and my T are starting to work on all the things that I am so scared of that is not normal and how it relates back to my history of abuse which she said the first place to start is talking about the abuse.

I see my P tomorrow afternoon which I am looking forward to and I am going to try to talk to him with eye contact but I have to tell him I lied to him last time and also talk to him about a really embarrassing issue that I saw my doctor for and he diagnosed me and told me what was wrong but said because it was a form of panic attacks that I needed to discuss it with my P and figure out what to do about it. And since it has to do with sex and my P knows I am in love with him and want to have sex with him its just going to be more embarrassing so I dont know if the eye contact thing will work this time.

Good luck Pippi with your session tomorrow!

I’ve read quite a lot of your posts on forum and you sound like you really know where you’re at and I think you are so brave being so honest both with yourself and with your P. Even thinking about some of the things you are willing to talk to him about make me squirm, so you’ve really got my admiration.

I’d like to hear how you manage with the eye contact, if you feel up to posting about it after your session?

Lamplighter

yeah, I will let yall know how it goes with the session and the whole eye contact...Im nervous and excited right now. I want to see him so badly but just nervous about what I must do, but I believe some how it will work out.