Sarah, thanks, that's really helpful to understand better where you are at now and what you are hoping for.

quote:

I took a risk in posting, dipped my big toe into the waters, so to speak,...hoping for a "corrective emotional experience"....and that certainly did not happen....

maybe it is still very possible to have a "corrective emotional experience" here still... i'm not a T, and this forum is kinda like - as someone said somewhere (sorry I don't remember) group therapy. well, it's a place for people who are all dealing with our stuff. that's for sure.

am i summarizing right to say that you feel like you took a risk, and you feel... rejected? i don't see that anyone has rejected you as a person. maybe i'm wrong, but i still see people here welcoming you and inviting you to stay. i can't and won't speak for AG, but i don't see that she is rejecting you as a person - she is perhaps disagreeing with what you've said - but disagreement is different than rejection of a person. she even pointed out that you are free to keep posting.

gosh, i'd just like to get to know you better. i hope you stay and share more about you and your 'stuff' (so to speak) and what's going on in your life, and over time, i think you might have that corrective experince of not being rejected and being accepted. i think it's worth the risk.

i wouldn't be here at all, in so many ways, if it wasn't worth the risk of being seen.

i have dealt with a lot of rejection in my life - i guess it's why been 'seen' is so scary for me. i don't want to be rejected, and yet i want to be known and be accepted... oh, so badly... and i can't ever be known unless i take that risk i will be rejected. my healing path has taken time, and a lot of relationships, and risk - and it will keep taking that... i have a long ways to go myself...

i dunno - what do you think?

Hi all, thank you for your replies...I'd like to respond to each of them...

Draggers: thank you, and yes, you make perfect sense and are always very helpful... I too used to be and still am a 'tomboy' to make myself less seen as a woman...attention from men/my Dad has been very confusing/invasive for me and I was never sure what it meant...and ...I certainly care that you are here in this 'messed up world'...and it is messed up!

Seablue: ..'to be seen is shameful...' yes, for me too....'re-do childhood to undo abuse...' I find this very interesting..I hadn't thought much about that before. I was wondering, too, if you do 'mindfulness' work? I'm curious because I am trying to do such work with my T..

Jill: '...I have lost 20lbs.' I must confess that this worries me about you...I'm hoping you are not developing an eating disorder? and I hope I'm not being offensive to you ...and I've been wanting to tell you that I really enjoy the way you write..I find you very descriptive with words that are dead-on for me...as for your question about what I did next...I still just stared at the floor but such a warm feeling came over me...warm with tears and gratitude for what my T said...I felt 'touched' in a loving sort of way...

BB: "So I guess I have the opposite problem.." I was thinking about that...you still had a huge part of you that you had to keep hidden from your family; so you really weren't truly seen...how do you feel about that part of yourself now...how do you carry it with you?

STRM: '...such a relief to just be able to be whatever I am at the time and be accepted..' Yes!! isn't it..I find it to be so beautiful..and it does make me want to cry...

JaneDoe: I've been reading all your posts about equine therapy and I find them fascinating...thank You...I sometimes long to be seen too..to be so special...

Heather 63: Hi...how is coming out of hiding uncomfortable for you--if you don't mind sharing...

MH: love your name...I can't believe you had the guts to wear sunglasses to therapy--if I did I would have, too! "...so why is it still so hard to be seen.." I'm still processing this with my T...

MacLove: I could have written your post--I cann so relate to what you wrote...I have no one but my T who sees me, too...and I used to have 'death fantasies' when I was little...

Sarah: How are you doing? I too look forward to getting to know you better...I am curious about you and care about your opinions...I hope you stay on the forum...

Thank You all for your thoughts and feelings...mlc

Thank you to those who have made me feel welcome to participate....I believe that disagreement is healthy....in fact, I welcome it with open arms, but AG has painted a rather monstrous picture of me...and I am deeply hurt by it....it feels like she can have her opinion by I am a monster because I have mine....I haven't been able to stop the flow of tears since I read her post...Guess I won't be getting any work/writing done on my thesis today (I am just finishing up my masters)... as I am too distraught to concentrate....I hope that as I reflect further, I will come to a deeper understanding of things!

Sarah,
I did not in any way mean to be harsh with you. I was upset with what I saw (emphasis on "I") as a slanted and unfair presentation of what happened in the past. You did not just talk about your feelings, you made statements about what others did, which I believe were your interpretation of their actions. I was presenting mine.

And if you believe disagreement is healthy than why is any opinion that differs from your own seen as an attack. I believe I went out of my way to state that I was glad you were posting, that you had every right to express yourself and even that I believed you telling the truth from your understanding. I fail to see how this lacks respect towards you.

In return, you have accused me of being "harsh"
"painting a monstrous picture," and that I have reduced you to tears to the point that you are unable to work, and made it unsafe for you to post.

I am sorry, but I deeply love this place and the people who post here and care for their well-being, and whether or not you believe it, that includes you. My desire was not to destroy you but to defend others against what I saw as unfair treatment. I am truly sorry that you have experienced that as something else.

There are obviously a lot of other members willing to support you and provide space for you to heal in. I am attempting to take a break from posting, not very successfully at this point obviously, so you may post knowing that you are safe from any responses from me. I promise that this will be the last time I respond to any of your posts unless you request otherwise in the hope that it will help make this a safe place for you. I know that it will be close to impossible for you to believe right now but you really do have my best wishes.

mlc, my deepest apologies for hijacking your thread, it was an excellent question and a great discussion to have. It's good to see you posting again.

((((janedoe)))) thank you

Sarah - wow, your masters thesis? How is it going? I'm hoping to go back to school to finish my last semester and then on to grad school soon, hopefully very soon! studying for the GRE now. (oh I am so eager to go back!) I'm sorry you feel so sad. Hang in there.

Do you have a T? have you talked with them about how you are doing? just concerned.

btw, I don't think AG or Shrinklady or anyone has "painted a monstrous picture" of you at all! I can’t speak for everyone, but I don’t see you as a monster and I don’t see anyone treating you as one. It's been said we should not think for others - well, please don't "see" for me AG even said, “I’m glad you’re back and posting…”

Can I respectfully suggest - try taking us at our words and don’t do our thinking for us? (oh, I say this as someone who tries to think and see for others all the time!!!) hope your day turns around. hope you know that you are cared about.

y'no, just snooping on this, and i like what you say janedoe, don't think for us...i am so used to doing that, picking up on sublties to stay safe. my t, who i am actually bragging on a bit lately, told me i am living like i am in a war zone, but i don't realize the war is over. anyway, good stuff all as usual!! jill

AG: I wish I could understand more deeply how things evolved to this point...perhaps we can just agree to disagree.....and move forward from here??

Janedoe: I have completed all of the 9 core courses and am currently at the research stage...My research focused on spirituality at end of life....I did a hermeneutic study....I should be done by December 2010....I plan on starting the PhD program September 2011....I do not currently have a therapist...11 years was more than enough for me...

Dragonfly, mlc and others...thanks from the bottom of my heart for your words of encouragement and support, I am most appreciative!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by jill:
my t, who i am actually bragging on a bit lately, told me i am living like i am in a war zone, but i don't realize the war is over.

i was just thinking about that same idea today jill. oh that is so me. my T encourages me to not use the word "trigger" but instead say "something in my present is reminding me of my past" and she reminds/validates that it may be my recent past and it could happen in the future, but it's not happening right now... it's more cumbersome, but that process does help my head start to learn a little more. (and my T really has nothing against the word trigger or anything, it's really useful - she uses it and so do i - it just helps too for me to spell it out a little in the moment of being really "triggered" and trying to learn that the stinking war from heck is over. OVER. at least i hope it is.)

out of self protection, i live like the trauma is now, always happening or just about to happen second from now and I'm SICK OF IT!
grr. the stupid "war" took up enough of my life. the war is over. my brain and body just haven't learned that yet.

(hmmm, sorry, think i needed to vent for a moment. those words that the "war is over" just stuck in my head in a good way jill.)

sarah - wow! a hermeneutic study about spirituality at the end of life? that's got to be really interesting - something i struggle to sort out personally. i could not imagine doing an entire thesis on it - that's amazing work! glad you are still here too (good to see more of you )

eeek, I don't know what is going on here, I'm no T- but all I have to say is AG, I love you, and Sarah, you are of course welcome here, and hope you can work things out. AG's words didn't sound harsh to me, though I can understand how hard it is to be called on something, I often really struggle with stuff like that myself, and it can feel like an attack when really the person is just trying to communicate honestly. I think she is trying to reach out to you, without being dishonest about how she is feeling, and what she remembers, is all. Very good to see you continue trying! It can work-! If there is anything to be sorry for, believe me, we all have things to be sorry for, and all are used to forgiving eachother and trying again! Nothing unusal about that. I have PLENTY to be sorry for! Good to see your post!

BB

I'm sorry for interrupting again, mlc...this is for Sarah.

quote:

I had apologized but the apology was not accepted....

I also read through your posts, Sarah. Your apology was indeed clearly accepted by Shrinklady, AG, and Butterfly Warrior on your Apology thread. You also acknowledged and expressed gratitude for the acceptance and forgiveness you received. And then you seemed to adopt a whole new focus of talking about your own experiences, receiving and giving support, which is exactly the spirit of this forum.

Sarah, this whole issue you are bringing up again appears to have been resolved beautifully quite a while ago with your apology, which was in agreement with everything Shrinklady, AG, and Butterfly Warrior brought up then, and everything AG is reminding you of now. So I do not understand why you are now claiming to having been attacked. Your apology implied agreement, and your apology was accepted. Now you say it wasn't accepted, that you really were attacked, and so it appears your apology wasn't genuine. You say you don't understand how things got to this point, that maybe you can "agree to disagree". But that is totally unfair. What is it you are disagreeing on? AG is not attacking you or portraying you as "monstrous" in any way, shape, or form, Sarah. But I do see you misrepresenting what happened, and then claiming you are being attacked and misunderstood when you are called on it. "Agreeing to disagree" on this feels very dismissive of the attempts made to straighten out the issue that you yourself brought up.

What makes me just sick inside is that it is exactly these kinds of problems that rips boards apart. I've really debated whether or not to respond so many times lately...do I sit by and say nothing? I can't stand that either...how do I know whether I'm really part of the problem or the solution or whatever, it is getting hard to discern anymore. And it makes me so sad, everything that is going on lately...and ironically enough, it is happening on the heels of that thread where so many of us expressed amazement and gratitude that our little "ecosystem", as Jones likes to call it, seemed unusually free from the problems other boards seem to have. The other board that I frequently check just went through a colossal disruption and has split (and no I wasn't a part of it, I barely participated, less than 30 posts on a board of almost 2000). And it really makes me sad that it seems to be starting here too.

Sarah, can I leave you (and Monte too if you are reading this) with some final thoughts. That the primary reason you and Monte have generated this much discussion with your posts is because we really love this forum and want everyone to feel welcome here. We want to preserve it from the kinds of things that rip forums apart. You both seem to claim being excluded in some way...that generates a lot of concern. People on this forum tend to lean toward taking too much responsibility for things, so if something is being pointed out to you, chances are there is something to it. So even if it hurts your feelings, please try to take a look at it anyway and see if there is some truth to it. No one is actually trying to exclude you. But if we don't all observe certain basic principles, eventually there will be no reason for anyone to feel included or excluded because there will be no forum anymore.

SG

I think a lot of us, when conflict surfaces, start to feel like the sky is falling in.

We think of the worst possible outcome from the conflict and we slip into high activation because of that danger. The danger might feel like "I'm hated" or "the board is falling apart" or "someone (or their reputation) is being damaged". Sometimes it can be hard to separate those fears from the basic ingredients of just seeing things in different ways, feeling different things, and saying so.

But we can see things in different ways, past and present, without those catastrophes happening. We can even articulate the disagreements and still stay safe, and still respect each other. It just takes grounding ourselves, realising we are actually safe in ourselves and our homes and that this is just a conversation, not a threat. Chances are the board won't disappear, even if people have different feelings, different opinions and even different perceptions of things we might see as 'reality'. Let's give each other that space, and maybe we can recognise the huge ground that we share, too - we're pretty good at that around here.

I LOVED Janedoe's post about how to ground yourself, and I think it is full of stuff that could be useful right now - especially for any of us feeling unsettled by conflict. It's here:
Mindfulness techniques

We have all these resources at our fingertips.

Love,
Jones

Incidentally, I don't mean here to minimise the hurts people feel over stuff. Hurts hurt, just as fears are scary. The feelings are real in us and we need to attend to them inside ourselves, and treat ourselves gently. xxx

Strummergirl: I think you missed the one individual "the dude" who did not accept the apology....yes indeed the others did and I was grateful for that....I have not misrepresented what happened for I have simply shared my story from my standpoint....I am sorry that you are not open to hearing/seeing me....

Hi Sarah,

Thank you for clarifying that you meant the dude had not accepted your apology. You did not mention him at all, you made a general statement that your apology had not been accepted within in the context of what AG had said, so it was not at all clear to me that you were referring to the dude.

And I am most certainly open to hearing and seeing you, which is why I took the time to go back and read all your posts and ask the questions in the first place. I wanted to offer support, but did not know how to offer it when your message seemed to be contradictory. Thank you for explaining what you really meant. And I would also like to say, welcome "back" to the forums! I do look forward to getting to know you better.

Take care,
SG

SG: I guess my inablility to express myself clearly is quite apparent....I often find it difficult to put to language what it is that I mean...and of course the words that I write are so open to interpretation by each of you individually....I can only speak/write my truth ... which was what I thought that I had done....I guess I don't do well with groups....and the group here has grown so much over the years....I am feeling a little shakey about responding to any more posts....perhaps it is best that I keep my responses to myself....