Sarah, we all find it difficult to express ourselves, for various reasons. So you are just like everyone else here in that respect, you are among friends who understand this. As for this particular issue, it seems to be resolved, so I'm not going to say anything more about it one way or the other. To tell you the truth the conflict is just about killing me, I am an avoidant by nature and I hate arguments. But I also love this forum which is why I said anything in the first place. At any rate I would really like to get back to the main purpose of this forum, offering and receiving support to each other regarding our therapy, and in some cases, the issues that brought us to therapy. I hope you will stick around and join us in that, Sarah. And with that, I really am going to stop hijacking mlc's thread. Now I'm going to go post about my really great couples session yesterday on the Spouses and Therapy thread because I've been dying to tell you all how good it went.

SG

Sarah - yeah, I see that the dude didn't accept your apology. I'm thinking (perhaps mind reading?) that it hurts that the dude didn't...

can I ask maybe a hard question? does it change your apology? (I'm guessing it doesn't?) Do you think we think any less of you if someone didn't accept it? I actually think it's even more brave of you... I think one of the incredibly hard and beautiful and courageous (and sometimes horribly painful) things about apologies are that they are not dependent on acceptance of them. The words and heart and intention of an apology is still there even if the person doesn't accept it. I see that you still mean what you said even if the dude didn't accept it... Reagrdless of acceptance of it, it doesn't take anything away from your heart or who you are behind the apology, or what you apoligized for. AND, that being said, it is really even more wonderful when apolgies are accepted, and it is even more painful when apolgies are not. It's a huge risk to apoligize, and i can understand why it hurts when it's not accepted.

(btw, I'm actually really finding something that syncs with my own stuff about what you said in your apology...)

There's also something that is sticking out for me in reading everyone trying to sort this out: Grace is hard to receive. It's often much easier to give. This forum gives it well, but I dunno if we all accept and receive it very well.

I have actually had more than one friend in my own life actually get very downright frustrated and mad with me that I did not accept grace and kindness they have for me. I simply would not take them at their word and would almost get angry back at any sign of rejection, when all along, they were actually offering grace and kindness... ugh, i actually can give really good examples...

Sarah, I kinda wonder that maybe that's a part of AG's reaction, like "whoa, hey, you have grace here... why are you bringing it up again?" Maybe I am totally missing the boat though on all of this.

my heart just longs to say - Sarah, it's ok. It's really truly ok. You are accepted and cared about just as you are. And it's ok if you can't believe that right now. It's very ok.

It seems like you feel hurt because you don't feel like you have been forgiven and are not accepted, and others are confused because they feel like they have forgiven you and they do accept you? I dunno - that may be a worng way to sum up everything - it certainly leaves out a lot.

And I might be a total jerk or maybe I'm just off my rocker for saying any of this!!! that may be actually the only thing I am certain of. (grace for msyelf, grace for myself... dang it, i have no grace for myself.)

What I see in all of this right now is a ton of a lot of grace in every direction and it's also seems hard for a lot of people to really take that in.

Grace helps it to be safe to be seen, not as we hope to be seen, but just as we are. I think that's what helps heal. Yet, grace doesn't make all the pain and heartache go away. Sometimes it seems to just make it more the real for me.

...ok, me and my kleneex, my comfused head, the foot I have stuck in my mouth, are gonna go run and hide from the fact that yeah, I'm posting this. And if I am being foolish or mean or rambly or just totally off in saying this - please forgive me and just ignore this.

On a side note: looking back, it doesn't surprise me that we hit this rough spot after people posted things about why they like the forum. (stupid hindsight.) It seems like it stirred up things for some people that couldn't reasonate with some of the good things that were expressed. All the good and bad are valid perspectives... I hope and think that in the end, it will be ok and we will all keep coming back together as a forum. There are boundaries we need to keep moving forward, and it's ok if we accidentally screw up and go outside them, as long as we keep taking responsibility for ourseleves (in all kinds of ways) and coming back together and talking about it. (?) But then again, I'm the one with a box of klneex in my hand and both feet in my mouth already.

anyone feel like they are always in relationship kindergarten and grad school at the same time? I feel like that in all of my life.

oh dang, just got the two posts by SG and Sarah after posting that.

Sarah - for example of inability to express my own self well, see above response.

SG - yay! I'm so glad your couples session
went well! can't wait to read about it!

Janedoe: Thank you for your sharings....they all made sense to me....I am happy to lay this all to rest and move forward....I suspect that I too need my box of kleenex for awhile...this whole experience has me exhausted....and I certainly had not intended or expected to create this mess....so let's move forward!!

AG: I am sorry that my earlier response to you was short and didn't really express what I had wanted to....I have always really appreciated and been in awe of your well thought out sharings!! I indeed been enlightened on oh so many occasions. Thank you for listening and welcoming me back to the forum!!

And to all others, I thank you for welcoming me back to the forum too!!!

S'all good, Sarah, glad you're back posting.

BB, I love you too.

OK, now I'm really going to go take that break.

me too, JD...welcome back, Sarah. It is so good to see this wrok out, that I could cry.

AG, I just want to lean my head on your shoulder right now. BB just loves AG.

Wow UV...great article and great posts--I think you express yourself so beautifully...I can really understand and relate to what you say in both of them! Thank you so much...I was a child of a highly narcissistic mother btw...I am going to check out the link you provided...I feel sad your T is not well and that you are worried..please let us know how it is going if you want to share...mlc

The thing that terrifies me most about therapy is being 'seen' by my T! Actually, that's one of things that terrifies me most about life in general!

I didn't realise how much I hide until I started therapy. One way I hide is by not looking at people when I am talking. I just can't do it! I have tried to force myself to do it with my T but it feels unbearable. I know it is really important that I learn that it's safe to look but I wish I had an intermediate step between not looking and looking! Any ideas anyone ? (I have asked my T but he didn't come up with anything)

S x

I sometimes am scared to look at my T in the eyes, oe even look at her in the face when I am discussing SA. I have a fear that I will see disgust, horror, rejection from her...usually these are the times that she asks me to look at her face so I can see that she is not disgusted by me...that's really hard. The other fear is that I might look at her and see 'him'..sometimes I manage to tell her that, sometimes I can't but wish I did.

starfish

Dragonfly, thanks very much for your suggestion - I am seeing my T today so will try it out (if I remember that is - I am really bad at remembering things when I'm there!)

quote:

Originally posted by dragonfly:
......only thing is..people do start wiping and touching their nose if i am starring at it!!!!!
dragonfly

LOL!

S x