Today I did something incredibly stupid. Ok, I have always googled my old T, but I never felt ashamed because I only googled things that were out there for public consumption, articles he's written (which I would get google to translate)and so on. I've seen pictures of him at some computer thing online, and felt horrible about it- but- it wasn't really on purpose so I let it go. I've looked for photos, but only found things that were in newspaper articles about him, so I did not feel guilty. I never did any really personal googling of him, I once found out by accident something about his wife- but I quickly clicked off that page.

Today I made a big mistake for the first time. I've been missing old T as usual, wishing he were my dad, ad nauseum. So I got curious about his family, I mean, really curious and longing, for the first time. I made a big mistake. I googled his wife's name. I actually saw a picture of her. She is like I imagined. (Weirdly, when I was in T with him, I had a dream about her...that was very comforting, even though at that point I never knew her name even.) Then, today for the first time I found out what his kid's names are. I have never, ever made attempt to invade his personal privacy like that, but something came over me. I rationalized it by thinking that it didn't matter since I will never see him again, and will never meet these people, and that- they live in a foreign country, bla, bla bla. So I googled one of his kid's names when I saw it there. I feel so ashamed of myself, that feels like a really creepy thing to have done. And found out that, ok for one thing, this girl looks a *lot* like I did at her age very similar I looked, back then at her age when I was still cute) and, the other really upsetting, and uncanny thing, is that she is in the same profession that I would have likely been in, had I succeeded instead of bailing out in the creative field that I went to uni for. In fact, I think I might have even mentioned to my T once that I have considered doing this particular thing that she apparently does... It is an unusual thing to have for a profession, so- now two weird coincidences. Clearly she is very successful, and has that "loved" look (I'm sure you know the one I am talking about) and...I am feeling incredibly heartbroken and just- orphaned. Orphaned by my T, not my parents- which is just- dumb, but- there it is. Stupid feelings.

I don't know how I will get over this. I have done it to myself, I deserve this pain for looking where I should not have looked- none of my business, and crossing a boudnary, and- my T will never even know. And as they say, curiosity killed the cat. I can't understand this weird coincidence, it is seriously a bit odd- and I also wonder if my T was freaked out (or even noticed) the similarities...and the contrasts, in that I of course "didn't turn out well." I'm really hurting, wondering- why I would be born into a family that didn't love me- but this lovely, clearly accomplished girl would be born into a family that gave her what she needed to survive in this world- and she would have been loved very much. I find myself wondering if she appreciates what she has? Then I think, well- I should appreciate what I have- and it spirals again...the grief is so bad, and then I shut it down with the guilt, I guess.

any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, I am really hurting, or I would not be reaching out like this right now, when I've stuffed up on here so badly. I know I will never see my T again, and it is just killing me, I don't know if I can survive this today.

Love,

BB

This message has been edited. Last edited by: blackbird,

((((Beebs)))

I'm sorry that you are in so much pain. I can't think of anything to say other than I understand why you hurt. I've looked at my T's family's facebook pages and felt like that was crossing a line too. I suspect it is common when you miss someone so much to try and feel some connection to them unfortunately you have no chance to work this out with him. I hope you can talk about it with cowboy T this week.

As for the weird coincidences I'm sorry that it happened. I can understand that orphaned feeling because it was there no matter what his children look like or even if he has children. Try and remember that you can't always read a person's life from a picture and people often put on their best face so to speak online.

Love and hugs

((((BB)))) You are always welcome here.

I'm sorry it hurts so badly right now. That would be very hard for me, finding out that my Ts kids had the same interests, pursuits, even looks as I did. I've kind of lucked out as my T only has sons and step-sons. But, then I think, of course, of all the disinterested step-fathers or father figures I have had through my mom's exploits and wonder if there had been someone like him who really took an interest and made an effort...well, a pointless train of thought as my mom has always been too erratic for those sorts to take a prolonged interest in her. Anyway, I am just trying to say, I can kind of imagine how you feel.

I don't know why it has turned out like it did, why you were in the family you were in or I was. I try to remember, despite living in a broken world that we have a loving Father who in all things works for the good of those who love Him, and has a plan and a purpose in mind for our lives. Those are thoughts I try to cling to when I feel like I am beyond understanding the way of things. Sometimes it helps. Sometimes, it feels like a cop out and I am inexplicably angry.

You can survive this, though, BB. You have survived the worst of it, but it may take a good deal of time to come to terms with what you had to survive and at what cost survival came. Please be gentle with yourself and know that you are loved. More ((((((hugs)))))).

thank you incognito for your comforting words, and I will try to talk about it with Cowboy T, it's just hard to see that well-adjusted face...it feels like looking at what I could have been if I'd had parents who supported me and cared. (((incognito)))I think you are right about, that I was looking for connection, but how it bites to see that, and then, the guilt-

thank you for the welcome, Yaku. Hugs back to you, ((((Yaku)))

quote:

I don't know why it has turned out like it did, why you were in the family you were in or I was. I try to remember, despite living in a broken world that we have a loving Father who in all things works for the good of those who love Him, and has a plan and a purpose in mind for our lives. Those are thoughts I try to cling to when I feel like I am beyond understanding the way of things.

Thank you for this- it really really helps.

Love,

beebs

Dearest beebs,
i'm sorry you are hurting and missing old t and now on top of that are feeling bad about your google searches. I think if something can be found on google it can be classified as public information. The internet can make it so easy,all u need is a low desperate longing feeling and internet access and there you go. I have done the exact same thing myself and i'm sure many others too. I think its what you do with the information you find that makes a difference. You will never use any of it against him in any way so i believe you should be absolved of all guilt. You are only using it to torture yourself - and i'm sure your t wouldnt want that. You reached out to him or a part of him in the only way you could, i dont think u should punish yourself for that.
I dont know what to say about the similarities with his daughter, is there any way you can keep the good parts- that u are somehow connected because of the similarities that maybe you reminded him of his daughter, maybe u can think of more.
In my latest google search of my t i found out her exact birthdate and that she is the same age as my mum. I did feel pretty low and sneaky for it but it was out there. I then looked at our star signs compatibility which made me feel pretty pathetic too but its all inocent stuff which didnt hurt anyone.

I hope you can be gentle with yourself.
Hugs,
puppet

Thank you puppet, and thank you Monte. It si good to see both of you. I appreciate your help and understanding and comforting words.

Puppet, in some way it does feel good, or, it might give me some insight into why it might not have worked out between us. Who knows, maybe I reminded him of her or something, but I doubt it. But I just saw that happy, smiling, productive face- clearly a person who is living her life- and that ability, that motivation always comes from being loved, so old T would say. I'm sorry you hurt from doing this too. It was a big mistake. As you say, coming from a place of desperate longing. I know I would never hurt him with any info I found out, in fact, it makes me love him more, and have great admiration for this beautiful family who doesn't even know that there is a crazy lady across the ocean who wishes she belonged to them. ugh. Thank you for saying what you did about it being innocent- I wonder if T would see it in that light though.

Monte, yes like you:

quote:

I KNOW my grief is misplaced, but that does not lessen it.

This is what Cowboy is trying to get me to look at- that it truly was transference, and that I took feelings that belonged elsewhere and put them "over here" as he puts it. The thing that sucks is that the more we work together, and the more I divulge about my FOO- the more it hurts because I'm starting to realize how bad things really were, and it feels more true to me than it ever did with Guru T. I hate that this pain is starting to become mine. I've disowned it for so long, and now it's just- there is no denying what happened anymore. The look of total surprise on Cowboy's normally neutral face, combined with his comments of last week of "Let me ask you something- who does that?" -said so incredulously- is starting to make me realize that all was not normal or well in my family- something I've always realized on one level, but never truly accepted as fact.

It's just that the pain is getting bad again, and...I can't function with it very well. My H thinks I should "take a break" but then...he is generally very avoidant, so...I'm not sure I should listen to his voice or not. I tried to talk to him about how I was feeling today, very difficult to open up after so many times trying this-...his response "we can't change the past, all we can change is the now. You mom was ill...she did the best she could.." And I just feel..like that is the most understanding he's ever been, but...something is missing. I just don't know what.

Thank you for reaching out and helping me, dear friends.

quote:

Beebs I understand what your husband is saying and it is the very same thing I say to my T. And he will say yes, there are valid reasons for why things happened, but that doesn't change the need to really look at those things...speak of their impact...accept it all as as mine...call it very, very wrong and get angry...grieve for the losses...and THEN forgive and rebuild.

This is very true, and I just want to reiterate it. Maybe now is the time to sit with the pain, think of where it comes from, and talk about it with your T. I know that's much easier said than done. It's something my T tries to get me to do all the time, and most of the time I'm resistant to it, but it's eventually healing to sit with the pain and acknowledge it. Because then you can set it aside.

Anyway, I'm not even quite sure what I'm getting at here. Sorry if it doesn't make much sense - been a little rough lately. But this is not about me. Please take care of yourself, Beebs. You don't deserve this pain. Keep us updated on how you're doing.

thanks, Monte and Kashley...I guess Monte that I can't expect my H to respond as a T would. I mean- that was the trap I felll into with old T was that he seemed to think he could teach my H to respond to my depression feelings in such a way. Never gonna happen, and- idk, my H is not parental to me, y'know?

Kashley all of it makes sense. You offer a lot of wisdom on here, so please don't sell yourself short. I'm sorry to hear things have been rough lately- I hope to be able to read about it soon, if you can. But no worries. I appreciate your thoughts and sharing your experience, so much. (((Kashley)))

It is just- that I feel so stupid for having done this. I mean- good grief, I can just imagine how horrified my old T would be if he knew I actually googled his daughter. sheesh. He'd probably think I'm a danger to society or something.

I feel like I'm a basket case or something tonight. It just feels like a creepy thing to have done, even though- when I read about others doing that it really doesn't seem like a big deal or so bad- but now- I understand how it feels.

(((BB))), sorry for the hurting this is causing you. I remember too well the days when I was constantly googling my T and how hard it was to stop, and how I felt like my T made me feel like a creep. I have the comfort of being able to see my T often to stay connected, and you don't have that anymore. It's very understandable to me that you would google him due to the pain of wanting to be connected to him somehow. But yes, I can also see how it now makes the pain even worse. Try not to beat yourself up over it. You don't need the added pain which that brings to your sense of loss.

BB,

This does not seem at all creepy or basket case like to me. But then, I'm one of those people that googles my T regularly. Her facebook page is public and I've looked at it a few times as well. Granted, I would not want to admit any of this to T exactly, in case she misunderstood, but I don't feel guilty about it because to me, information that is placed on the internet is public information and it's not a crime to be curious. Please don't beat yourself up about this.

As far as the similarities to the daughter go. . .ouch. I can see how that would kick up some pain. I've wondered sometimes how I would be a different person, a healthier, better person, if T had been my mother. Just a few months of weekly therapy with her have already made such a difference to me. And I think, if I could have had her as a constant presence in my life, during my most formative years? Wow. But as they say, if if was a skiff we'd all go sailing. Anyway, she also has daughters and knowing that makes me feel, not jealous exactly, but wistful.

Beebs,
Sorry not to respond sooner and this will be shorter than I wanted since I really need to get to bed. But I don't think it's really creepy and I've done much worse. Everything you found was available on the web and people realize when they put something on the web that anyone can access it. I found my T's grandaughter's blog which included posts about his visits and family pictures and felt the same sense of violating my T and feeling like a total creep. He was totally accepting of what I did and understood my desire to want to know more about him and my longing to be closer. And you have already paid the price we all do, which is the pain of getting a closer look at their family. So you don't need to beat yourself up, you have a very understandable, human longing to feel closer to someone who is important to you, that you miss. It's really ok.

love, your Aglet

(((((Monte Cipher, HIC and Ag)))))

Thanks for the calming words of support. It helps to know that others have the same kind of feelings about having done this, and that it hurts to see. That I'm not alone- you all are such normal, kind loving people that I feel less creepy, just knowing all of you have done the same thing, and have the same feelings about it.

I'm worried because I feel like I am kind of resisting the urge to constantly look at the website I found...and look for more stuff too. I'm just...wow I miss him. My heart hurts.

Maybe if I write about...what I am looking for. When I found that stuff today, I was literally feeling a rush. Why? It was a little window into his world, when I know I'll not see him again. It was a moment of intense pain, I'm realizing. Access to the pain of not being loved by my parents. Access to the pain I've shut away and denied all these years. The feelings...are exactly like therapy feels for me, really! So I wonder if my denial serves an important function (for me) sometimes. Maybe it's not good for me to strip it? I get a close look at what might have been... in a very intense and personal way because she looks like I did, and because there she is doing what I probably would have done if I had any self-confidence. And I want to do it again. I want to go and look again. Is this a form of self-harm? Why does it "feel so good to feel so sad?"

Does anyone know what I am talking about here?

Maybe the answer is to stop beating myself up for it, and instead, just honestly recognize the pain of longing that it makes me feel, as Kashley suggested. Maybe the huge huilt about it is just a defense against feeling the hurt and sitting with it?

Don't know- confused. Wish my h could understand where I am. He is mad that I am on here right now- even though- I did try to share with him about it. Really I did, and just as my T would have wanted me too, also. I know I did try.

BB

((((((((( Beebs ))))))))

Firstly want to say how sorry I am that your H though trying to be understanding, still seems to miss the point completely. It can’t be easy with what you are going through to also have to justify yourself to him

I’m not sure though that I understand the guilt about googling that you speak of. I’m quite happy to google any and everyone and don’t feel like I’m transgressing boundaries or anything. What I would feel though is probably something like you are describing at seeing the picture of your old T’s daughter. Exclusion. Not belonging. A great longing to have what she had. And envy. And that’s pretty painful

My current T has very little on the internet about him (which is just as well because I’d quite happily google it and then hate the fact that I knew more about him and his real life than I’d want to – there’s something to be said for not knowing who a T is in their own world). An old T though that dumped me, I periodically google him to see if he’s still around, I keep hoping to find that he’s been suspended or been barred from practising or something… no such luck though

I’m really sorry that this has made you feel so bad. Have you thought to bring this up with Cowboy? There is a LOT of old pain in what you are describing and it’s exactly the sort of stuff that therapy can help you with understanding.

Sending you lots of big hugs Beebs (and glad you’ve stayed on the forum too )

LL

ACK! Page two!!!

LL-- ACK indeed! thanks for taking the bullet for me! Thank you also for your response, and your understanding.

quote:

What I would feel though is probably something like you are describing at seeing the picture of your old T’s daughter. Exclusion. Not belonging. A great longing to have what she had. And envy. And that’s pretty painful Sad

It's a terribly wistful feeling. And yeah it hurts a lot. I keep trying to find doorways into the pain I've shut away, I realize..I think I'm having a breakthrough. Opening this door might not have been such a mistake. I'm realizing something really important...what it means to "integrate." I think it means accepting the pain that you cut off from yourself as part of you- as your own- and then you can begin to feel again. For the first time, I understand what Guru T was talking about when he would go on about stuff like that. I thought he was just trying to torture me, but- he was right. Transference is a doorway to the cutoff pain of the child in the past, I think. It is odd that since looking at those pictures, I can feel a sense of being more "myself." And there is a certain acceptance, that "myself" is an extremely sad, and lonely person. I don't detest "her" as much.

I'd like to share something really personal. I may have to delete later, but I will try not to. After this experience, and then, trying to bring the feelings to my H in tears- and being dismissed by him once again- I got a bottle of something which I am not proud of- and came on here. But this time- I was fully aware of why I was doing what I was doing- it was kinda weird. He was so angry at me- but cool, rational anger. He came over and started to tell me in his "kind voice" that doing this is what makes me depressed, and that I have kids to take care of, and I should go to bed. Guys- even though he was "right-" as he always is- I completely lost it. Maybe it was the alcohol, but I was fully aware, I wasn't drunk just a bit tipsy. I flipped him off. All my anger came pouring out at him, all the betrayal and abandonment of the past years. I didn't even feel guilty after. Then he said he wants to come to therapy with me to my sessions with Cowboy. At first look, this seems like a really good thing on his part- but you know what- this time I said "no- I want you to do your own work, because you tell me you think the therapeutic relationship is a crock, and that all you want is some pointers on how to get what you want from me (me to be a workhorse, basically, and to have no emotional needs- as I feel it) and not to have to take a look at yourself." I told him that I'm not going to let him use my sessions to hide behind me because he is too afraid to face a therapist all on his own- but just come with me so that he can say that he did everything he could. I told him he needs to do the work alone right now, and so do I, and then maybe we can come together if he is willing to take an honest look at himself. And I am reasonably sure, for the first time- that this is the right thing to do. He was deeply, deeply resistant to this idea. My H always does "what I want" but not this time. He dug his heels in, by golly, and no matter what I said or how eloquent I became- no matter how much I reminded him that Guru T told him he *must* find a therapist or spiritual director- he would *not* agree to do it. So of course I doubt the decision to not let him "tag along" with me to see Cowboy, maybe it's a sucky solution, but better than nothing? Maybe I'm just being selfish? Perfectionistic? - but. What is so sad, is that I know darn well, that my H will not do what needs to be done for his healing. He will keep it all locked up until the cows come home. And we will continue to have no relationship until he can change that- and there is not a damn thing I can do about it. It is interesting to me, that my answer, that he has to do his own therapeutic work first before he can come with me- has immediately become the ego solution for him to point the finger of blame at me, for "not being willing to work on our marriage." What a copout- OMG I am furious. I am doubting myself, though, but I am starting to see what my old T was talking about, when he told me that my H was putting everything onto me and not bearing his share. I couldn't accept that- but I am beginning to see it now, because it seems like Cowboy agrees with that assessment of things. I'm worried that I 'm using it as an excuse to absolve myself of all guilt- but this too, is a reenactment of past relationships, where I was forced to take all the blame for anything that went wrong, and if I defended myself, they completely slaughtered me- and ate the leftovers for dinner.

So I can understand better why my H and I just don't connect. We need therapy- but he doesn't believe in therapy for himself- just for me.

What am I supposed to do here?

I can't believe that looking at a picture of my old T's daughter would open all this stuff up. I hope to be able to talk to Cowboy about it.

In spite of all of this, I'm feeling more connected to myself, and I feel able to engage with my kids and to get some things done- so I must go, and use this precious time even though I would love to spend the day here.

Thinking of all of you today-

Love,

Beebs

Love to you, LL, and all-

BB

((((BB)))))

So glad you found a silver lining in there somewhere. My T has always insisted that my H and I both have baggage that we need to take care of separately and then work on the relationship. But my H is like your H. He doesn't want to do the work. He's happy the way he is and doesn't see a need to change. But I just keep working on myself because I have to for me and the kids. And whatever happens at the end of the day happens. I have to have faith and hope that what is best for me is what will happen.

Most people won't change unless they have to. Look at all of us, we're all in therapy and really want to change but find it hard sometimes. And, so your H may not change until his pain is great enough. Sometimes people don't realize what they have until they've lost it or until it is threatened. So, don't give up hope that he won't make the effort ever. Maybe not initially. But maybe down the road. Of course, he's going to be pissed off because you are changing things up and he doesn't like it. You (we all) have to learn to tolerate people being angry at us.

Whenever I complain to my T about the bad state of my relationship with my H, he always reminds me that it took both my H and I to get the relationship to where it is today. It's not completely my fault or my responsibility. I think I finally believe him and accept that and feel less guilty about taking care of myself.

So glad you feel connected to yourself. Isn't anger wonderful sometimes?


xoxoxxo

Liese