Well, like usual, hubby eventually gets what he wants since it keeps the peace. I am a master at throwing myself on the knife if it keeps the peace. Some habits are so hard to break!

One week down, one week to go until T is back.

I'm sorry River. I've been doing the same thing for more than 10 years with my husband, although there has been some improvement and I haven't had to for the last few months.

Shall we make a New Year's resolution, together?

OW

OW -

What is the resolution you want to make? To not give in? To not give up? To finally talk about my sex life with my T?

I've been seeing her for 2 1/2 yrs and have completely avoided talking about sex. I dread bringing it up buy maybe I am missing something.

River -

That's a hard question! I think they are all good resolutions.

I've mentioned it to my therapist and it's come up in our couples therapy. It actually was good that it came in couples therapy because the therapist was very clear to my husband that it was going to be a LONG time before I was ready to give myself to him again and he just needed to be patient and work on everything else first. He told him it would make things worse in the long run if he tried to push me into it when I wasn't ready. The whole conversation took all of five minutes and I didn't really have to talk at all. Talk about taking the pressure off of me!

My pattern with my husband has been this way for years: stress builds, neither of us talk about it, he gets mad at every little thing, finally I confront him about him getting mad at every little thing or about something he's done that I just can't let go, it turns out it's all my fault (according to him) and he says terrible things to me in a very loud voice. He apologizes and we go to sleep. The next few days I'm very distant, and sex is not even an option. He can't understand why I'm still upset, after all, he apologized. He is very nice and attentive, and in a week or two I give in to his requests, I have hope things will change, and we have sex. He is happy but then in a week or so it all starts over again.

I should say that was the pattern, because things have changed dramatically. This summer the same thing happened, only this time the argument was very big. I still haven't been able to get past some of the things he said. I did give in to his pleadings for sex a few months (right after he agreed to go to counseling) ago and it was awful. He never said a word about it so I'm not sure if he knew how awful it was for me or what.

He has been pushing lately but I haven't given in. It has really helped that I have talked to my T and she has validated my feelings, as has our couples therapist. (I say talked but it was really brief - I said I wasn't in a place where I could be OK being intimate with him right now and she said that was completely understandable, and then we moved on to other things like my own body image and why I was upset with him.) I don't just do it with sex, though, I do it with everything. I let so many things go because I don't want to stir up an argument.

So I think our resolution should be to not give in. To not be the peacekeeper. It's his turn. I think with that comes not giving up, if he is able to work through this with me then we will have a chance. If not, then it will be time to think about giving up.

I don't think you should dread bringing this up with your T. It will be uncomfortable for a few minutes but it may also be very validating. (Of course I say that, but if I really had to talk to my T about the details of my difficulties, I would be mortified and would most likely shut down.)

I do feel bad for my husband that I am not able to be intimate with him. I know his needs aren't being met. Sometimes the guilt really gets to me. But I know I can't give in to the old pattern, because I don't want to live the rest of our lives like that. It's not fair to either of us. Sometimes I think it would be easier just to leave him, and it was a real possibility this summer. He finally did realize how close I came, and that came as quite a shock to him. Now he's willing to work with me to make things better (although he still thinks it's all me, at least he's going to counseling and I'm hoping some of it will sink in soon).

OW

OW -

Thanks for the response. It sounds like we have similar marriages except my husband and I don't really fight. He gets to be more like a whiney little kid and keeps pestering me until I give in. If I don't then he gets mad and has a tantrum. I can't stand either one and for years have tried different things to make the marriage better. This is actually our third round of marital counseling.

Yes, the time has come for me to talk to T about it. New year, new topic, all new dark crevices of my inner workings to drag out. (Don't I sound thrilled?) As far as the resolution goes, I am still thinking on it and will have to get back to you.

OK, you guys have found the one subject even I haven't gotten up the nerve to bring up in therapy. When my husband and I were in the middle of our really bad patch (I really was ready to leave) I was so angry that I didn't even want to sleep in the same bed with him, let alone have sex. The only reason I slept in the same bed is that I knew how upset my kids would get if I wasn't. I became an expert at sleeping at the edge of a mattress. Then as we went through counseling together and realized a deep lack of intimacy at the center of our marriage (because we were both terrified of it) I came face to face with the fact that as much as we could both enjoy it when we did have sex, there was NO emotional connection and that was way TOO close to what it was like when I was a kid. I became terrified that I would start having flashbacks if we did anything and I completely shut down for a long time because I couldn't face the physical act without emotional connection. By the time I emerged from that, my husband had pretty much completely given up. We're still struggling in that area, and I keep wanting to bring it up in couples counseling but I keep chickening out. It's one thing to talk to my T about my sexual desires for him that will never be acted on,but to talk about actual acts? With not one, but two men in the room? Not my idea of a good time. What's worse, when I've brought it up privately with my husband, he's basically like, hey, I've learned to live with it, celibacy's not so bad. I mean how humiliating would it be to have him say that in front of my T? So I have no advice or wise words for you but I wanted you to know you're not alone.

The truth is that sex is a complicated issue for a human being and so many things affect it. If there are problems in the relationship, I often think they manifest in this area. And that becomes even more complex if there's been damage in that area as in my case.

I keep hoping we're going to work this out without having to talk about it explicitly. I do know that a strong driver for the erotic attraction that I feel for my T is wanting to be able to consummate a close emotional intimacy. I'm holding on to the hope that as my husband and I learn to be more intimate with each other (which is definitely improving) it will spill over into our physical relationship.

AG

quote:

but to talk about actual acts? With not one, but two men in the room? Not my idea of a good time.

Yes, exactly! If I can't even talk about this with T, how am I going to ever bring it up in MC with hubby and Mr. T?

I have talked about sex in therapy before with my first T. It was by far her favorite subject and she even got me to talk about nitty-gritty details. It was OK at the time but now it just feels exceptionally embarrassing. Maybe that is because not much has changed since then and that was over 6 yrs ago.

Anyway, to quote my earlier post: "...so I took a chance and told him why I wasn't in the mood. One of the things I brought up was that I need to have an intimate relationship on an intellectual and emotional level with him before I can be physically intimate...[But] he doesn't know what to talk about. I spent most of the evening trying to explain to him what I mean by emotional intimacy and knowing each other on a deeper level. By the time I finished that I was exhausted so I just went to sleep."

So it isn't even really the sex it is the complete lack of communication and comprehension on his part of what I mean by communication. Sometimes I feel like I am married to a 12 yr old.

River -

Me and my husband don't really fight either. He gets mad at every little thing and mumbles and complains a lot. I usually just put up with it for awhile and then I try to talk to him about it. It usually ends in an argument. Well, not an argument as much as him yelling at me and me telling him he needs to calm down. Then he's extra nice for a few days until I give in.

This is our second round of marriage counseling. The first time the marriage counselor said she couldn't help us until he went and got individual help. He didn't and so we quit marriage counseling and I continued with her in individual therapy.

AG - I'm glad to hear your intimacy is improving with your husband. I actually didn't sleep in the same bed as my husband for awhile but had the excuse of helping my daughter not be so afraid to sleep in her own room by staying in there with her. It was the real reason I wasn't in my own room, but it was also a real relief for me as well.

quote:

I became an expert at sleeping at the edge of a mattress.

Now that I'm back in the room with him I am doing just that.

quote:

I came face to face with the fact that as much as we could both enjoy it when we did have sex, there was NO emotional connection and that was way TOO close to what it was like when I was a kid.

That's how I felt when I did "give in" a few months ago. I knew then that I couldn't do this again until we both worked some things out.

quote:

Anyway, to quote my earlier post: "...so I took a chance and told him why I wasn't in the mood. One of the things I brought up was that I need to have an intimate relationship on an intellectual and emotional level with him before I can be physically intimate...[But] he doesn't know what to talk about. I spent most of the evening trying to explain to him what I mean by emotional intimacy and knowing each other on a deeper level. By the time I finished that I was exhausted so I just went to sleep."

I try to talk to my husband to get some sort of intimacy back but it's just not working very well either. It's like you said, he just doesn't seem to know how to talk to me. I keep thinking it's a typical male/female thing, but is it really? When I tell my husband I want to feel closer to him, he just brings up sex and says that's the best way to feel as close to someone as you possibly can. Or he says we need to hug more, hold hands more, kiss more, which of course we all know what he wants that to lead to. When I really push it he tries to talk about our feelings but it always ends up in a argument (I mean him loudly telling me what he thinks and me just giving up trying to make ansy sense of it all). I'm hoping marriage counseling will help us learn how to talk about things without it ending the same way it always does.

OW

Wow, I commend all you guys for going to marriage counseling. My situation is a little different, maybe not quite so intense as yours, but I really feel like my husband doesn't know how to give me the attention I need. He thinks that when he pats me on the shoulder, I should assume that he loves me. I know I need more affirmation than that, but he doesn't get it. I told him he needed therapy (thinking a therapist could maybe wake him up). He suggested marriage counseling. When I told my T this, she got all excited and started telling me about a T she could recommend etc. etc. etc. Well, I started having a panic attack right there in front of her. When I looked at her, all I could see was her mouth moving, but in my head it felt like a train was passing through! I finally told her, and she realized that this was a topic I was not ready for. I mean, if I can't say this stuff in front of her, how am I going to open up to a brand new therapist and my husband all at the same time! And talking about sex???? We got on the subject once and when I got home I went into major anxiety mode. I told her the next session that I thought I had said too much to her. Again, we are staying away from that for the time being. Although I know it will come up again in the future. I wish I could talk to her about it, but it is too uncomfortable and embarrassing. Anyway, you guys have way more guts and courage than I have.

PL

Okay here is my contribution to this thread. My partner treats me like one of her kids quite a bit of the time. So much so that I start to feel like one. I think she thinks she is helping me or showing that she cares, but I find it demeaning at times.

Our relationship has become quite a bit the focus in therapy, and sometimes it makes me angry because we are not dealing with my issues.

I really want my sessions to be about me and not my relationship. Maybe they are all intertwined who knows.

When I am with my T she treats me like an equal and I feel we have intelligent conversation. She even laughs at my stupid jokes. In a funny way it seems like more of a relationship than the one I am in now.

Kats

quote:

When I tell my husband I want to feel closer to him, he just brings up sex and says that's the best way to feel as close to someone as you possibly can.

This is true but usually more often for men than women. I've heard (and believe) that most men need sex to feel close enough to their partner to be intimate on other levels where as women need to talk and be intimate emotionally, etc. before they feel close enough to their partner to have sex. Seems to me like a cruel trick of nature to make us exact opposites. What is the point in making it so hard? it is like we are already hard-wired to fail.

quote:

I really want my sessions to be about me and not my relationship.

I really dislike sessions when we spend the whole time either talking about my marriage or my child. The talk and information helps with those things but I always leave feeling like I never got a chance to be seen and to connect with my T. This makes it much more likely that I will feel depressed until the next session. Sometimes, now I remember to tell her to let me know when we have 10-15 min left so we can stop talking about that and focus on something different so I won't feel that way. Sometimes it works.

quote:

Sometimes I feel like I am married to a 12 yr old.

Last time we saw Mr. T one of the things he said, that I hope sank in, was that when a couple tend to relate more like a parent-to-child that this is poison to the relationship. Our household could qualify as a super-fund site considering the abundance of toxic waste we have going here.

quote:

I really dislike sessions when we spend the whole time either talking about my marriage or my child.

River
I so agree with this. My son has caused quite a bit of trauma for me (well, for our whole family) and it really helps to hear my T's perspective and advice, but I feel cheated if that is all we talk about. I want my T to pay attention to me and give me time to whine, cry, talk about myself. I know it sounds self centered, but isn't that why I'm seeing her anyway?

PL

Yes that is why you see her and pay her good money so put her in charge of the clock and save 15 minutes of the session if you have to, to just focus on you. It is your time - the only time you probably get to be self-centered during the week.