I had a nightmare (about 30 min ago) and woke up in so much emotional pain. The next instant (or so it seemed) I realized that my husband was crowding me in the bed and my pain became rage and I tried to yell, "Get off of me!" but I couldn't move or speak yet. Another second or so I could and I shoved him to his side of the bed. Then all I could do was weep. I don't even remember what the nightmare was about but the anger towards my husband is no surprise. I have this growing pool of hurt and anger that is so well buried that I can't consciously access it. We've been in marital counseling for about six weeks now and I haven't been a wet noodle during our sessions, meaning that I've said some really hard truths to him but receive no real response from him. So instead of getting the anger out it seems that more is building. I am afraid of not being able to "vent" my anger in a relatively healthy (or maybe safe?) way. I know that is there, sometimes I feel it, sometimes I even have some of it bubble up when I get really annoyed but I can't seem to to let myself let it out. So the pressure is building like a pressure cooker that you're afraid could explode. (I've never liked pressure cookers just for that reason - the thought of that hot metal pot exploding has always terrified me.)

Does this sound familiar to anyone? I've heard the axiom that depression is anger turned inward and I believe it because I can feel that happen but so far have been unable to stop. Like now, all of that rage has been numbed down to a dull annoyance but I'm still in so much pain. Maybe that is because I am trying something different this time by posting about it here or maybe it's because my defense mechanism is to bury anger since as a kid no matter how angry I was or how justified it was it just made someone else in my family even angrier in response.

I don't know that I have any insightful or brilliant advice, but I can say that I have had those kind of nightmares (and flashbacks as well) that leave me reeling in their emotions. I certainly have felt displaced anger/annoyance and pushed my log of a husband away in the middle of the night too. The whole sequence sounds familiar to me. (for instance: just this morning)

I've heard that about depression being anger turned inward too. My T tells me that and has been trying to access my anger for a very long time. Sometimes I start to go there and I even see a glimmer of hope on her face then it tends to go inward again like its stuck, or someone is holding their hand over my mouth, or sitting on me. It is very frustrating I know. I find that my anger tends to seep out though in my daily life when I over react to my husband or children's behavior. I do feel like I am going to explode sometimes. Sometimes I fear turning green and bulky as my clothes start ripping from my body and I growl, "You won't like me when I'm angry."

Sorry for that interlude.

As I am typing, what I suddenly find interesting River is where you say that "all the rage has numbed down to a dull annoyance but I'm still in so much pain." I wonder if you need to focus on what is painful about it? I am sure having to bury your anger all of these years is very painful and can even manifest itself in physical pain. But if you sense where you feel the pain or where it comes from could be a key to help unleash your anger. And it may not even make any sense when you feel it and express it. I don't know if you remember a few weeks ago I had a bout with anger that I posted somewhere here and I said something like "Beatting a pillow with a bat is highly over rated." Actually it wasn't. I don't think I understood the anger but that's the best expression I've ever given it. (Just make sure your husband isn't sleeping on the pillow if you decide to do that.)

I don't know if any of this helpful, but I am sure glad that you posted instead of holding it all in. Sometimes just seeing what we type ourselves helps to make a little sense out of what's going on.

Take care!
JM

Hi River,
That's a really familiar feeling. My father was the only one allowed to get angry and it was very dangerous for anyone else to do so. So I had to get really afraid of being angry because there was alot to be angry about.

Anger has always been the most difficult emotion for me to deal with (and that's saying alot). And that was made complicated by the fact that my husband perceived being mildly upset as someone being enraged.

When we started counseling together, I was really angry. I felt like I hadn't been listened to for a really long time. So to me it felt like I was really over the top angry and my husband felt the same way. Then, one session, my husband made a comment about how enraged I was and I essentially agreed and we continued on. Our T actually said later in the session when we hit a break, that he wanted to go back and talk about something. He said I wasn't enraged. That I was angry, and my voice got a little louder but that was normal when someone feels passionately about something. But that I was still trying to understand my husband's point of view, I was taking responsibility for my own behavior and I wasn't attacking him. We both rocked back in our seats, totally shocked. He actually said that on a scale of 1 to 10 I was probably a three, maybe a four.

The point I'm trying to make it is that as angry as you think you are, it may not be as over the top as it feels like to you. A lot of things happened to you that SHOULD have made you angry, that you should have been allowed to be angry about, but you weren't allowed to express it. It would make sense that as you deal with your past and process your emotions that anger would have to come out. But the fact that you're aware of it makes a huge difference.

My T has done a lot of work with me centered around anger. When I talk about how I feel, he will often identify it as anger for me. One time when I was talking about being angry and how much it scared me, that if I let myself get angry I would hurt someone or damage something, my T said "that's violence, which is not the same thing as anger." Huge lightbulb. Anger and violence were one and the same thing in my thinking. If you got angry, you committed violence (a model my dad had demonstrated extensively). It blew me away to both realize that they were different and I had very seldom acted in a violent manner. That I wasn't nearly as out of control as I felt, it was just that I was so scared of it.

The best thing to do is, as usual, talk about it in T and pursue it as much as you're capable of so that you can learn to express it. Being in counseling with your husband should actually help because your marital therapist should be able to help you express it and channel it in such a way as to not damage your marriage but to bring about necessary changes.

All that said, River, I know how scary it can feel. But you'll get through this too. You're a very strong and courageous woman, I can't imagine this will slow you down for long.

AG

(((River)))

I just want to say how much I support you. I also have a terrible time with anger. I can't express it. I try to control it. I struggle constantly to try and identify if I should be angry and if I should be what I should do about it. I really don't have any advice but I wanted you to know I heard you and I hope things improve as you discuss it in therapy, individual and marital.

Thank you everyone for your responses. I really appreciate it and it does feel good to be heard.

I am angry because my husband will not help himself, take care of himself or make his family a priority. It doesn't seem this way from the outside but since he will not take full responsibility for his ADD and do what is necessary to at least try to compensate for the ways it handicaps him I have had to make sacrifices. Some have been small but some bigger and there is one right now that I just can't seem to accept. I am angry at myself for making poor choices in my life that were based on fear more than anything else (not that I could have done things any differently at the time I am now beginning to realize.) And no matter what I say in martial about how angry or unhappy I am or that I don't trust him and often think about leaving him, when we get home it is just business as usually like nothing has happened. I get trapped in this because I can't seem to say at home what I can (barely) say in marital counseling.

quote:

I do feel like I am going to explode sometimes. Sometimes I fear turning green and bulky as my clothes start ripping from my body and I growl, "You won't like me when I'm angry."

I would love to do this. I think it would be very therapeutic for me. Not to mention it just might get my husband's attention.

Thanks again for the responses. Can't talk to T until the 5th but her pillow sure came in handy last night.

Hi River -

I am just starting couples counseling with my husband and I could have written most of your last post, except that I haven't even told him in counseling how truly frustrated I am with everything. While we are at counseling, he is the "perfect" guy. Perfectly reasonable, says the "right" things so I don't feel like we are really working things out. We don't talk much about what goes on in counseling at home either. He doesn't seem to be making any changes at all, except that he is controlling his anger (a BIG problem with him). I've talked to my T about it and she said "at least he's going with you" and that he may just be saying all the right things to get through counseling but if he continues to go it's going to start sinking in. (I can only hope.)

I think it's good that you are at least able to talk about it in counseling. At least you are starting to get it out in the open. And, especially if your husband doesn't see or admit his own issues (like my husband), having that objective third party can be very helpful.

And yes, I have anger issues too, just like the rest of you! I don't express my anger, in fact I don't ever feel angry. With my kids, I often act angry when I think I should be. I'm pretty sure I've taught myself not to get angry because I sure used to when I was a kid.

OW

quote:

her pillow sure came in handy last night."

Hug it tight River.

I sort of had an interesting bout of my own anger earlier today with my husband. It was sort of an existing/recurring contention between us about my step sons and me having to be the bad guy all the time and him (even though he agrees with me on most of it) just sits there like he's in a coma. Well I fired away at him for several minutes about how upset this makes me and how it creates an avenue for the boys to think that it's only me who feels this way and enables their belief that I am the wixked step mother and they have it so hard here, when in fact they have it very good. But they just can't let themselves believe that. Anyway I must have carried on for nearly an hour expressing my anger in a very controlled non abusive non yelling manner. He sulked but at least he listened. But a strange thing happened and this is the point of me posting here, a fear or dread suddenly came over me and I thought "I'm afraid I pushed him too much I shouldn't push him so hard he might kill himself." Ok first, my husband wouln't do that I have nothing to base that irrational fear on with him. I realized that this is from my past and instantly recounted my fears of losing my mom all my life.

I remember when I was around 6-7 my sister's friend's mother hung herself and he found her. I remember fearing that my mom might do that. My mother was a very depressed woman who cried profusely over the way my father treated her and I vaguely recall that I may have over heard threats of it. My Aunt OD'd on sleeping pills about this same time. Then we moved within a year or so and I came home from school and found my older sister sitting outside on the porch with my mother in the winter. My mother was crying and I could not go into the house. My father was inside and home opening windows. None of this made sense as I sat next to my mom and listened to my sister explain that she came home from school and found my mother sleeping and the house full of gas. She called my dad at work and had to drag my mother out of the house. At least this is what I remember from the story. I had no idea until later that mom had attempted suicide.

Growing up I had to be so careful not to be a burden on her. I had to be the good little girl. So when I was going off on my husband today and that came over me I realized that is why I'm afraid to get angry. Now this sort of makes me sad to relate and I'm not sure why.

I was also not allowed to get angry because I was told that was bad.No wonder I have issues.

I hope I didn't hijack your post River, but I thought it fit here rather than creating a new thread.
JM

JM that is a very insightful connection you made back to your childhood and the fear of your mom committing suicide. Of course you would be terrified of burdening her with any of your needs because you felt and she made you feel that she could not handle it. So anger was not an option for you and you learned to stuff it way down inside where it could pose no danger. With my mom it was not suicide but her out of control abusive response that terrified me and prevented me from ever asking for anything or making my needs known. Better not to attract her attention in any way so I just became quiet and invisible. It was safer that way. And I know I must be angry and it leaks out sometimes but I stuff it back in and ignore it. I don't know if I'll ever feel safe enough to let it come out. Mostly when I'm angry I shut down and go silent. This has happened with my T once or twice. I basically got angry with him and didn't talk to him for an entire session... although he kept talking to me LOL, bless him.

I'm sorry this connection makes you sad but at least you were able to post it and I hope the sadness passes. This would be a good topic for your next session.

As for husbands in therapy....at least yours stays awake. I'm not in marital counseling but my dh used to come with me to my son's counseling sessions and FALL ASLEEP. Once or twice I had to kick him under the coffee table... until he changed his seat to the only chair in the room and then I couldn't reach him!! So I basically just told him to stay home. It was very embarrassing to me to have him nod off in front of my T!

And you have every right to get angry/annoyed at your husband for making you the disciplinarian in the house. My dh does this too and my T says it is turning into a good cop/bad cop routine with my son and that we need to present a united front or kids will use the division to get away with stuff and the effect of all my efforts will be reduced. We are working on this now.

Relationship Update:

Last night hubby wants, well you know - what they always seem to want, anyway I am certainly not in the mood for this so I took a chance and told him why I wasn't in the mood. One of the things I brought up was that I need to have an intimate relationship on an intellectual and emotional level with him before I can be physically intimate. Ya, this wasn't what he wanted to hear but he can be remarkably sensitive when he wants to be (or when he wants something from me.) I don't know if I have told ya'll this before by my husband is clueless about almost everything that isn't hockey, computers or Star Wars. He is super intelligent but has no common sense what so ever. I always appreciate his willingness to go along with what I want but he doesn't know what to do. He doesn't know what to talk about. I spent most of the evening trying to explain to him what I mean by emotional intimacy and knowing each other on a deeper level. By the time I finished that I was exhausted so I just went to sleep. This morning and for most of the day he has been super cranky. Seems he didn't sleep last night because our talk "opened up some scabs on some of his old wounds." This is how he put it while he was yelling at me this morning. So I took this as a good sign. Ya he is yelling and cranky but he is not being lazy and apathetic. The one thing I don't like is that the only thing that will ever get his attention and cooperation at this level is me not wanting to have physically intimate relations with him. This makes it hard not to think that there really is only one thing he needs me for.

quote:

Originally posted by River:
The one thing I don't like is that the only thing that will ever get his attention and cooperation at this level is me not wanting to have physically intimate relations with him. This makes it hard not to think that there really is only one thing he needs me for.

OMG River - I so totally hear you! I really think this was his main motivation for going along with couples counseling.

quote:

So anger was not an option for you and you learned to stuff it way down inside where it could pose no danger.

You nailed it TN. I was not allowed to express any amount of disapproval or protest in my family. So when I try to speak up for myself I get this overwhelming dread. I never quite acknowledged it before now though to understand what this was all about. I hope naming it will help resolve it. I mean no one any harm and I should be able to speak to my needs w/o such horrible fear.

Good cop/bad cop was exactly what I was thinking when I posted earlier too TN. My step sons can sense that dad wouldn't say anything if I wasn't coaching him to. I tried to communicate this to my DH and I know he gets that, but the man has a serious case of the lazies and being clueless all the time. Being in a step/blended family scenario makes it even worse when the step parent is forced to be the disciplinarian and boundary enforcer. We've been married 8 yrs and one of the first things I took control over was the absolute lack of boundaries. The older son was always walking all over the youngest son (I am quite hyper vigilant to that for obvious reasons) But only being able to enforce them on the weekends feels so futile, but I've been determined to do right by these boys despite the odds. My husband tells me I am a much better mother to them than their own mother, but that isn't hard to do. My DH is a wonderful husband and father, he is just slow to react.(_very slow_) The word coma is actually very fitting.

Wow, so much to respond to here I don't know where to begin.

River, since starting therapy last spring, I have troubling dreams all the time that leave me very fearful. Sometimes I can remember them, sometimes I can't. Like I mentioned in another thread about dreams, I truly think they're your soul talking to you, and/or consolidating feelings and memories. I think the fear you wake up with is an appropriate response to what your dreams have communicated to you, even if you can't recall them. I also think that anger/rage is the root of many many emotional problems. I, like a lot of people here, was not allowed to express anger growing up. So what do we do with it? We bury it and/or turn it against ourselves.

My T told me that exploding with rage isn't the best way to process it. It's more effective to talk about it, have it authenticated and acknowledged, and then express your feelings to the people in your life with real assertiveness, which is sounds like you're doing a bit of in your couples therapy. I've exploded in a rage many times, and it never made me feel any better.

Because I was never able to express anger appropriately, it just built up over the course of my life, and has resulted, among other things, in a massive case of Irritable Male Syndrome, which is basically depression that manifests itself as irritability and being emotionally closed. Sound familiar?

Anyway, you're not alone with bad dreams that leave you feeling very frightened. And you're correct that anger is a major culprit at the root of a lot of problems.

Best,
Russ

quote:

This has happened with my T once or twice. I basically got angry with him and didn't talk to him for an entire session... although he kept talking to me LOL, bless him.

I can't help but to comment on this too. When I displayed a measure of anger toward my T, once in session and once over the phone, she got really excited with this crazed look on her face as if she was thinking "Ooh good we're hitting anger." But within seconds it went out like a lit match in a windstorm.

What would we do w/o such dear patient T's?

quote:

Quote from Your link Russ: "One of the most consistent symptoms is anger and sullen withdrawal present in men between the ages of 40 and 60."

This fits my hubby.

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:

quote:

Quote from Your link Russ: "One of the most consistent symptoms is anger and sullen withdrawal present in men between the ages of 40 and 60."

This fits my hubby.

The scary thing about the idea that men express depression as irritability is how long I've actually done this...like most of my life. And I'm sure I was contaminated with this from my father, who comes from a long line of irritable, cold men. I'm trying like hell to not spend the second half of my life like this.

Yeah, the anger thing is SO hard to identify, access and stay with. Think I'll try to get to some tomorrow when I finally see my T again.

River, it might be worth asking your T what he/she thinks about your nightmare and your resulting fear. The more information you have about what's going on behind the scenes the better.

Russ