Hey MTF that's brilliant! It really sounds like she's more than ok about all your feelings and what's even better is that she's taking the initiative to draw you out about it all (just as well eh? Nothing like having all the best intentions in the world and then freezing up, suddenly thinking hell this ain't such a fantastic idea after all!)

I can't tell you how pleased I am for you - you've been suffering so many agonies about your feelings for her and the way she hasn't seemed to get any of it, for SO long that it's wonderful you've now been able to step forward into some really healing work - being able to work WITH your feelings about her, and that she's openly pushing you to tell her exactly how you feel in the moment itself - I especially like that she's expressly given you 'permission' to tell her all the flashes of momentary feelings (feeling ignored or shunned I like that, she sounds as if she's eminently open to hearing BAD stuff that's great!) And given time you could well be finding it safe enough to tell her exactly all the good feelings you have for her too (pity she's no good at taking compliments, but it's not really about compliments is it?) I get the sense she's now made it so much safer for you all round, that must be be a big relief for you.

Wow I could be going overboard here, but it sure sounds like this was a great session and so very much where you needed to go with her. I'm so pleased for you (((( MTF ))))

LL

More Than Fine,
Are you feeling relieved? I am (good to know huh? ). But, I was actually a little worked up for you today. ) Sounds like she is finally understanding the importance and wanting to help you work on the attachment piece. I am so glad for you. And yeah, it's easier to talk about than to actually do, but really, what isn't?

I am so glad she gave you the green light to call her when/before you start spinning about something she did or said in session. I was a little worried when I read the part about her wanting you to tell her in the moment because I don't know about you, but there are times when I don't even really hear something T said until later, or don't have a reaction about something until later, so even though it's ideal to be able to tell them in the moment, I don't think it's always realistic. But you have the option (or obligation due to the pinky-swear ) to call her if something comes up after your session, so that is great.

Yay for you!! You did it, and you didn't have to wait an entire month!! So brave, girl!!

Oh, I am also very relieved for you, MTF! I am so glad she at least partially broke through your frozen state (I hate those! and I'm having them much too often myself! so frustrating!). I mean this in the best way, but I really hope she keeps at it and won't let you hide your feelings anymore. I hope she persists, however uncomfortable its going to be for you, because I believe you'll have more relief and connection with her in the end. So you have to do your part and call her if you're spinning again! If you chicken out, we'll have to kick your cyber butt, LOL! (or at least give you that HTML slapper thing)

MTF,

I am really pleased with how things went for you! It sounds like it was hard, but also productive and really helped get the issue out there in the open.

As far as the writing vs talking thing. I've BTDT. I used to send my T really long letters, tell her things after the fact that pissed me off etc. I still send her letters, but now they are much shorter. It has taken many months and many conversations about trust and our relationship in order for me to start to feel safe enough to say in the moment, "hey, wait a minute. What do you mean?" or "that hurt my feelings" etc. I definitely have not perfected that, but my point is to tell you that it will come in time. You don't have to do it all at once.

Please keep us posted on with any developments. I'm so glad you wrote that letter and that she heard you!

Hi MTF, it sounds like you had a really good session today and I hope you can hold onto it and the good feelings and all the things she said to you. I know how fast it can all slip away and those thoughts start eating at you about what she said and what she meant. But, hey, a pinky-swear to call her is really awesome. And she seems like she really wants to know what is going on inside your head and she shows how much she cares by asking the hard questions. I know it can be so hard when we freeze up in their and our frontal lobes go totally off line. I swear there are times I walk into my T chanting stuff in my head so I can remember what I need to tell him. Sometimes I write it down but then I hate taking out notes... I can feel/see him groan... oh here we go... she's gonna read me another 50 pages of stuff...

Just wanted to say good for you and I hope things get better and easier for you as therapy progresses.

TN

Thanks everyone for the positive responses. Today has been a really hard day. I've spent most of the day crying. I think this attachment work has kicked up a lot of fear for me and a lot of uncertainty. It goes back to my T offering post-therapy 'friendship' after I read her my first letter back in March. I wish she hadn't done that. I don't know whether she did it genuinely or out of an effort to calm me when I was really upset. I had told her I felt like the end of therapy would feel like walking away from her funeral and she said it didn't have to be like that, that we could go to lunch once in a while. She told me she likes me and cares about me and still sees 2 or 3 ex-patients. That really messed with my head and my heart. My mother has told me not to do it, that it would be a bad idea. My mother doesn't understand my attachment issues, either. I think it was awful of my T to offer something like this so early in my therapy, before she really understood the nature of my attachment issues. Now that she 'sees' them for more of what they are (and I'm still hiding them fairly well ) I am wondering if she regrets her offer. I wonder how she 'really' feels about me and it holds me back so much from being my true self with her. I know that is why I was so frozen in fear with her yesterday and couldn't talk to her. No way am I ever going to tell her what I would love to have in a relationship with her! Even though she said whatever I tell her isn't going to change her care for me or how she sees me, I don't even know what those really are?

Right now I just have this hole in my heart. I feel like I need to tell her this and that I need to know how she 'really' feels about me, no holds barred. That I need HER to be 'butt honest' with me, and tell me if her offer was for real, or what? I can't have her jerking me around because she thinks that I will get over my attachment to her and be 'fine' at the end of therapy. For me it doesn't work that way. I still am attached to people from when I was a teenager. It doesn't go away. I can't allow myself to believe she cares for me above and beyond what she does as my therapist only to have her take that care away when therapy is over. It would absolutely rip my heart out. I just wonder if she'll tell me the honest truth, or if her need to be the ethical, helping, healing therapist will override that. Will she be able to rip my heart out if that's what reality really comes down to? This whole situation is heartwrenching. I don't see her for almost 2 weeks and while I could call her and talk about this over the phone, I feel it needs to be in person. It's going to be a very long two weeks.

MTF

Monte,

quote:

I doubt she will be 'butt honest' MTF, I doubt any of them would. They have to remain objective, impartial. I'm sure they have to put aside feelings they may have toward us, good and bad.

These kinds of responses are probably the number one reason my T doesn't want me coming to places like this. I hear the reality of therapy rather than what she will want me to hear before she even tells me. I HATE THIS ATTACHMENT CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You know I dismiss my pain, traumas, whatever. Well, it's because THIS is my pain, trauma, etc. This stuff is where the most pain lies. Attachments. This is what brought me to therapy. And I jumped out of the frying pan (with my physical therapist neighbor) and into the fire (with my T). It's been one hellish experience into another, only this one feels worse because of the boundaries and because I don't know what her feelings are and if she's just 'acting' or if it's real. I don't want this pain. It hurts more than I can bear right now. I just want to know the truth. Is that too much to ask of a human being?! If she yanks me around I'm going to hate her, and I can't bear the thought of that right now. If that's what it's going to come down to I want another T, I want to avoid the pain and heartache of loving someone that can't love me back. I've been there too many times and it hurts too much to take it one more time...

quote:

Originally posted by monte:
It shattered me. Still shatters me. it's just shit.

I'm sorry you know what this feels like. It's hell. Thanks for your reply. It's nice to feel understood. I appreciate it a lot.

MTF

I would like to apologize for possibly triggering people with my post yesterday. I need to be more sensitive and I'm sorry if I've triggered or hurt anyone with what I posted. This stuff with my T has really triggered me and I'm in a lot of pain right now, so I hope you will forgive my seeming insensitivity. I would never intentionally trigger or hurt anyone here, and I realize the topic of my post is a very sensitive and painful subject for all of us who have transference/attachment issues with our Ts, past or present. If I have caused any hurt to anyone, I ask your forgiveness.

MTF

(((((((((MTF)))))))))

I am super glad to hear that your T is trying so hard to meet you where you are in your attachment to her. The effort she is putting forth is really, really obvious, especially in that last session. And I can totally relate to "locking up" when I am given the attention I've asked for, especially in therapy. It's like something in me freezes up tight when I'm now being "seen", even though that's what I was longing for all along. VERY frustrating.

But I can also hear your pain and confusion. And it is certainly true that attachment work is painful and confusing in its own right. But IMO, there are some things she has said, and is saying, that are adding pain and confusion unnecessarily. And I don't think she is saying these things because she doesn't care about you, because she obviously does. But I think maybe it is from inexperience with attachment work. And I just wanted to bring these up, NOT to put down your T in any way, but to validate what you are feeling. And if what I say doesn't seem to fit, then feel free to tell me to take a hike.

quote:

I told her that she is like no one else I know, that I think she's a really fun person. She was surprised at that. She said something to the effect that people like her are a dime a dozen. That kind of hurt. She's really bad at taking compliments. It's like she couldn't believe that I think she's special and different from other people in my life.

MTF, how did you want your T to respond to this? If it were me, I would have wanted her to ask me more about my feelings. To explore a bit more about what I consider a "fun person" to be. In other words, to find out more about ME in this exchange. IMO, what you needed wasn't her modesty, if that's what her response indicates. What you needed was for her to see YOUR beautiful heart, which is responding and resonating with something here. And it is very very important to find out HOW your heart resonates, what makes it "beat" (poetically speaking). What I see happening instead is that her focus moves back to herself. Of COURSE it hurt to be told people like her are a dime a dozen, when you just told her you think she's special! That had to feel insulting to your heart, like the way it is responding is somehow wrong or faulty. MTF I don't believe that's true at ALL. Your heart is beautiful just as it is. There is something real going on here and it would be good for you to know more about what that is. I wish your T had kept her inability to take compliments to herself, that has nothing to do with you and YOUR HEART. I wish instead, when you handed her your heart like that, she would have very carefully asked you more about what you value and consider special in someone.

So I can't say this strongly enough, MTF: This isn't supposed to be about HER. It is supposed to be about YOU. So I just wanted to validate your hurt and disappointed feelings. And also to say, I think her response comes from inexperience in working with attachment, and not from any intent to hurt you.

Telling you that you are "over sensitive" also hit a nerve with me. But then maybe I am being overly sensitive. Just kidding. But seriously...in reading the rest of that paragraph, I see her making this about her again, instead of exploring why you are responding this way. This statement seemed particularly revealing:

quote:

And she doesn't know when she's done anything that hurts me so she can't fix it, so I just go away with hurt feelings and harbor them.

What bothers me about this statement is the "so she can't fix it" part. It just seems like she is saying, the way you are (supposedly over sensitive, getting hurt feelings, harboring them) is getting in the way of her doing HER JOB (which is focused on HER needs), rather than getting in the way of YOUR HEALING (which would be focused on YOUR needs). I don't think she's doing it on purpose, in fact she might not even see it. But again this has the potential for you to feel like you are doing the therapy "wrong" by being who you are. You learned these patterns for a reason, and it might be helpful to explore why you respond the way you actually do. Yes, okay, the way you are responding is not effective, it keeps you isolated. So, let's look at why you are doing that. To me, saying "just tell me so I can fix it" is another way of saying "just stop doing that". If you could, you would. I just wonder if the way she is approaching this is going to be helpful to YOU. And again, I think this is due to her inexperience with attachment issues, and NOT out of lack of concern for you in any way.

And I can totally understand your pain and confusion you expressed in that last post. I didn't find anything you said to be offensive. I don't think there are too many other topics that would mess with our heads and hearts than to be told, by the one we are attached to, that "some" patients get the preferential treatment of being "friends" outside of therapy, after termination of therapy. If I were in that position, I would be dying to know exactly what do I have to do, who do I have to BE in order to get that special treatment. It would be agonizing.

MTF, it is so obvious from that last session that your T cares for you a great deal, and she is trying very hard. I hope I haven't said anything to offend you, or your feelings for your T. I just wanted to point these out so as to validate your feelings and some of the confusion you are feeling. I hope you can bring up with her whatever you need to, and that together you can work through it.

Many hugs,
SG

Hi ladies,

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me. I appreciate it. I'm doing a bit better than I was a few days ago. My mind is busy working on how I'm going to work this stuff through with my T face-to-face, as I promised her I would but it scares me a lot.

Monte:

quote:

sorry also if my rather brutally honest opinion regarding your Ts response to your question about her feelings toward you was a bit rough. Wasn't meant to be

What you said to me wasn't rough, it was what I needed to hear, I think. It brought me back to earth and out of hysteria over the situation. I've realized I don't 'need' to know that stuff, even if it would be nice to hear the answers I 'want' to hear. I'm afraid if I asked her I would doubt her responses and it would cause me more confusion, more pain, and A LOT more spinning, and I absolutely don't need that. I'm just trying to accept her care for what it is and be content with where we're at for now. The 'transference frenzy' as you've called it previously, just makes me crazy, and I'm already dealing with enough crap...why add to it? Thank you for your brutal honesty. And thank you for the prayers!


SG:

quote:

quote:

I told her that she is like no one else I know, that I think she's a really fun person. She was surprised at that. She said something to the effect that people like her are a dime a dozen. That kind of hurt. She's really bad at taking compliments. It's like she couldn't believe that I think she's special and different from other people in my life.

MTF, how did you want your T to respond to this? If it were me, I would have wanted her to ask me more about my feelings. To explore a bit more about what I consider a "fun person" to be. In other words, to find out more about ME in this exchange. IMO, what you needed wasn't her modesty, if that's what her response indicates. What you needed was for her to see YOUR beautiful heart, which is responding and resonating with something here. And it is very very important to find out HOW your heart resonates, what makes it "beat" (poetically speaking). What I see happening instead is that her focus moves back to herself. Of COURSE it hurt to be told people like her are a dime a dozen, when you just told her you think she's special! That had to feel insulting to your heart, like the way it is responding is somehow wrong or faulty. MTF I don't believe that's true at ALL. Your heart is beautiful just as it is. There is something real going on here and it would be good for you to know more about what that is. I wish your T had kept her inability to take compliments to herself, that has nothing to do with you and YOUR HEART. I wish instead, when you handed her your heart like that, she would have very carefully asked you more about what you value and consider special in someone.

So I can't say this strongly enough, MTF: This isn't supposed to be about HER. It is supposed to be about YOU. So I just wanted to validate your hurt and disappointed feelings. And also to say, I think her response comes from inexperience in working with attachment, and not from any intent to hurt you.

Thank you for validating my feelings here. I think this is where a lot of my pain is coming from in my relationship with my T. She has 'rejected' personal compliments from me in the past and it has bothered me a lot. She can take them if they're superficial, about her blouse, jewelry, or something like that, but if I offer her something about HER, she can't take it. She always stops me and has to negate my feelings about her. Does she really expect me to think she's a dime a dozen? No one is a dime a dozen. God doesn't make 'dime a dozen' people. She's the only HER in the world and I feel like she must not even believe that herself. I almost feel like she was saying that my feelings are wrong, like I'm wrong for seeing her as 'special', that she isn't special. Whether that's because I'm a messed up attachment freak in her mind, or because she's like that with everyone in her life I don't know. From past experiences with her though it's screaming loud and clear that she has difficulty accepting that others (or at least I) can see that she has qualities and attributes that make her special and that draw others to her. It makes me sad for her. It also makes me mad at her. Yes SG, I wish she could have held still, silenced her own inner self-critic, and listened to my heart instead of silence it with her own issues about herself.

Thank you for pointing out that this is about her but that it shouldn't be. I was feeling like my feelings about her ARE wrong because she has pretty much caused me to feel like they must be because of the way she treats them. I am coming to see though that the issue really lies in her. Having feelings about people isn't wrong. Okay, the intensity of the attachment is a bit abnormal (and that's why I'm in therapy ), but seeing people as special, possessing talents, gifts, traits, qualities and abilities that make them special is NOT a bad thing. I'm feeling a lot better and I'm working on how I'm going to talk to my T about all of this. It's going to be hard, but her continued refusal to accept my attachment to her and feelings about her has made opening up to her so hard it is really impeding my ability to make any progress in my therapy and I just can't go on like this anymore. Thanks so much for your insight. It has been really valuable!


MTF

MTF, sorry I've been kind of awol. I wanted to say that SG's comment really rang true for me too. Whenever I have had feeling like yours for my T, he dismissed them as "inauthentic." That my feelings for him, concern for him, etc. came from an inauthentic place in me that wasn't acknowledging that the T/clietn relationship was supposed to be all about me, and him meeting my needs...0or a lack of willingness on my part to let the relationship be all about me... but it hurt. Confusing. What do you think?

BB

Hey MTF,

I just wanted to mention something that I've recently read. I started the book In Session, and there was a large section in there specifically on transference. There were several stories of experiences with therapists who chalk up nearly every feeling toward them as being strictly due to transference and not having any validity as being "real." In reality, it's some of both. It's a little confusing, because your T's reaction when you described her as a fun person kind of goes along with a therapist who is dismissing everything you feel toward her as being transference, but considering you're aware of it...that seems like it may have been an opportune time to discuss it. To try and figure out what you're feeling toward her and why you're feeling that way. And she needs to remain open for you and be willing to accept that some of it certainly IS real.

quote:

I was feeling like my feelings about her ARE wrong because she has pretty much caused me to feel like they must be because of the way she treats them.

That sounds like gaslighting to me. Actually, a whole lot of this sounds like gaslighting. But I agree with what SG said - that your T obviously cares about you. Well, I agree with everything SG said. But particularly that. It just seems like she's missing the mark with how to approach this. I think that any hurt she has caused you have been accidental, but it seems like there's a bit of resistance (which she probably doesn't recognize) on her part to accept some responsibility.

Big hugs, MTF!