I wish I had something positive to write tonight, but I'm really having a crappy time of life right now and need to vent to people who can understand. I've been worse, but I've been a lot better the past few weeks too, so being back in a hole again doesn't have me feeling too happy about life. The Abilify I've been on (augmenting AD meds) for a little over a month got to a dosage level that ended up being too high and flattened out my moods/made me emotionless, so I cut back to half the dose as per my T's advice and that of my GP. Well, now I feel like crap. I've taken a backward slide into a depressed state again and now I'm back to spinning about my T; just where I didn't want to go ever again.

To top things off and make it all worse, my T was supposed to call me this week, as it's my 'off' week and I'm not going in every week anymore, so I was really needing that phone call to get me through to my session next week. Well, she didn't call. I have no idea why she didn't call me. She's not the type to forget (although she did warn me a couple months ago that if she doesn't call me it's not because she doesn't care, it's because she forgot ). It makes me wonder if the 'thank you' card I gave her last week somehow led her to think I am doing better than I am and that I don't need that phone call anymore. I would think she would have at least asked me how I feel about her cutting out the phone call.

I have been feeling really disconnected from EVERYONE in my life for the past month since she and my DH both challenged me to disconnect from the computer as much as possible. I also don't have close relationships with my sister or brothers, my parents, don't have even one close girlfriend, and of course if my DH was at therapy with me that means we are struggling too, and always have. So I am feeling alone in the world these days and don't even feel like doing anything to connect. I guess I am doing something right now, but my T would say that this is not 'reality' and that it only counts for so much. I need 'real' people in the 'real' world. The hard part about that is I don't want to even try to make the effort anymore because I'm sick of always being the one to put the effort into it. I mean, I am the one who does the initiating in all of my relationships. I do at least 90 percent of the initiating of any interaction in those relationships, and 98 percent would actually be more accurate. I'm also tired of feeling like my T isn't even going to pursue anything in therapy with me until I'm giving more to relationships and things are going better in them, especially my marriage and FOO (family of origin). HA!!! I'm about ready to tell her where she can put her hopes! She'll be waiting for a really long time and I don't have forever to wait, KWIM? Ugh.

Then, there's the thread on the forums somewhere about posting what your T has done to help you the most in your therapy. I used to have some things I would have been happy and enthused about listing, but now I don't feel those things very strongly or resolutely anymore. I have a list of things my T is NOT doing to help me. Maybe if I list them here I can get some objective help with what I should do about them, as I'm really frustrated and sitting on the fence again between whether I should stay with my current T, or find a new one. In fact I've already found a T that has 20 years of experience with attachment-based disorders, I just need to make an appointment with her and go see what I think. I just don't want my current T to find out that I went to another T, as I don't know how she'd take that. See the problem with that? So here's my list (and I don't think these are all my T's fault, they're mostly mine, so I realize it's not fair to say that this is a list of things she not doing to help me. They're things I am having issues with and don't know what to do about):

*I don't feel I can be 100% honest or my true self with my T. This is because I see her as anyone else in the world and don't want her to really 'see' me.
*I fear her reactions--that I'll be rejected or met with humiliation from her responses to me.
*I feel there's no way she can truly accept me because she wouldn't if she knew me deeply and honestly, so I can't trust myself with her or she'll leave.
*I worry about her judgment and criticism constantly if I tell her anything she doesn't already know, so I really hesitate to tell her stuff anymore.
*I feel like her kindness and care has been more out of guilt than a genuine desire to allow me to be dependent or attached to her, but rather to feel better herself for the mistakes she made earlier on.
*Now that I told her I couldn't come every week I feel like I hurt her feelings so she's taking in out on me by not calling me this week (I know this is crazy and very unlikely, it's just a childish feeling I have). Or maybe my card caused her to think I don't need a phone call. I miss her.
*I don't think she has a lot of experience with this kind of attachment disorder, or maybe her own personal style of attachment is too dissmissive as well and so we're not going to get anywhere because we're so similar.
*She never confronts me. I feel like she's too easy on me. There's no 'challenge', no accountability for things. She hasn't even asked if I've searched her or her family online to see if I'm being true to myself.
*I don't want to tell her any of this because I don't want to hurt her feelings or make her feel bad.
*She never allows me to see her feelings or emotions. I have no 'model' of how to do this (how to get in touch with my feelings or how to express emotions in a healthy way. I've only seen her express emotion once--when she teared up after I read her my letter and she asked me for forgiveness. That wasn't really expression of her feelings, either. It was her guilt coming out. She never said how she felt, except that she was "sorry".
*When I wrote her the letter about the internet searching she never said anything about how it made her feel that I had learned all of that stuff about her and her family. It was left for me to guess. Then when she asked me at the session after I dropped off the letter if there was anything else I needed to tell her, I told her I could go on and tell her the rest of the stuff I knew. THAT got a rise out of her. She simultaneously leaned forward in her chair, some anger or shock (or both) flitted across her eyes, and she said, "There's more?!" Of course there's more, but with that reaction I wasn't going to say anything more, other than it was more of the same stuff I had told her in my letter. It was just interesting to get some sort of reaction out of her over that because she didn't let on that it had bothered her at all before then, she had only said that "it was a boundary crossing, and that's all it was." She let me off the hook with ease, like I did nothing wrong and it didn't bother her at all. I KNOW it did. At least now I do, but I know she didn't intend for me to know it.
*I feel like she's so worried about how the truth will affect me that she doesn't let me see it. She is too 'objective' and there's never any subjectivity from her, even when she relates stuff to me about herself.
*She never really asks me how *I* feel, what my emotions are, what's going on with me. She takes my answers at face value (which I know is what they should be, but I'm a dismissing attachment style person and so I don't say what's true because I don't usually know myself). We don't talk about my feelings. It's all behavior based, CBT stuff, and I wonder if my feelings count or matter in my therapy.

I could add more to this, but that's enough for starters. I just feel so crazy right now. I am hoping it's my medication doing this to me. I don't need to be back to this mess of "do I want to stay with my T or find a new T? Is she the right T, or is she screwing up big time? What do I do?" stuff again. That was awful, but I feel like I'm headed there all over again. I wish I could remember the good times I've had with her and that they could stay at the forefront of my mind and carry me through times like this. Maybe I should have called HER today. I hate this stupid attachment crap. IT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, any objective perspective would be appreciated right now. I wish I could get back to where I was a month ago. If only...sigh. I'm needing all the good vibes I can get right now.

MTF

Monte,

Thanks for understanding. That in and of itself means a lot. I feel so alone in the world a lot of the time, and it makes me cry as I sit here and feel like at least one soul in the world understands where I'm at with my T. I'm so sorry that you understand me, though. The pain is almost unbearable sometimes. I can't even share it with my DH because he has no idea what it's like and I'm sure would REALLY think I'm nuts.

I do understand what you mean about shuddering at the thought of moving on to a new T. I do, too. And I have my many reasons, too. But I feel like I need the help in the real sense of the word. I can't even discuss my transference issues with my T. Never even opened it up for discussion at all. She knows it exists but won't go there. Won't confront me. She just says it's because of my primary relationships suffering so much, that there's no emotional connections in my life. REALLY?!!! Who knew?

I sometimes just want my T to hold me and rock me in her arms. Never had that as a child. I had a baby sister that came when I was 18 months old and then my mom had a breakdown shortly thereafter. I don't remember cuddling or holding or stuff like that. No comforting or rocking or caressing. I just want that from my T so much. The little girl inside just wants that. The 'mini-me' as you call yours. And yeah, I'm angry that my T doesn't even care to find out what my attachment feelings are or what the transference stuff feels like. It's like she's afraid of facing it herself because then she'd have to deal with my feelings and I sometimes wonder if she even knows how to deal with her own.

I too want emotional connection, and yes it is maddening that our Ts won't give it! Some will, and I guess that is where you have to be selective with the T. I've been reading (well, skimming) David Wallin's book "Attachment in Psychotherapy" and I'm about ready to give it to my T and ask her to read it and then let me know if she can do ANY of the stuff he recommends for the Dissmissing Patient so that I can get some real help. Otherwise I just may tell her I need to see someone else. I can't keep on at getting nowhere. It feels hopeless sometimes.

Thanks for reaching out, Monte. As sad as I am that I'm not alone, it's also comforting.

MTF

(((( MTF ))))

I’m so sorry you’re dropping into this profoundly black state again. I don’t really know what to say to help you with any of this because it seems to me like these are fundamental issues that you need to work out with your T.

I DO want to say though that having been in a similar sort of set up with massive doubts about my ex-T I actually did leave and try and find a new T and the more new Ts I meet the more appreciative I am becoming of my ex-T.

My thinking is that if you’ve got a T who is good in lots of ways then it’s worth infinitely more to try and work out these issues with them than it is to try and find someone else. I had the same belief that now I knew much more clearly what I needed from a therapist that it would be a simple matter of going out and finding one who understood my set up. Ha ha laughs ironically.

Well ok this is UK and feeling-oriented Ts are few and far between so maybe in the States you do stand a better chance of finding a better fit for you - but I’d still like to urge you to seriously think about bringing all of the things up that you’ve listed in your post with your T before thinking about leaving just yet.

By the way I’ve done what both you and Monte thought about - started an ‘unhelpful things that therapists do’ thread. It’s your comments that prompted me to do it - maybe we can all use it as a place to vent about the crap things that Ts do.

Lamplighter

((((MTF)))) ((((Monte)))) ((((Lamplighter))))

You are not alone. I think we all need hugs! Those needs that haven't been met, and probably aren't going to be -- I for one feel like throwing a tempter tantrum and shouting Why can't you give me what I need to heal? It's not fair! Actually, I have thrown some tantrums. And I just end up butting against boundaries and feeling more pain. Sometimes I wonder if this attachment stuff doesn't just re-traumatize all over again. I really can't even write much about it because it hurts to find the words. Which is why I haven't been posting much lately. But I do hear you all.

Hi MTF,

I'm so sorry you're struggling again. I've ridden those same waves through medication adjustment, and it's horrible. I hope that you're able to work something out soon that will suit you better.

Also, in my opinion, you have to do what is best for you. This forum community as a whole may not be "reality," but we are certainly talking about very realistic subjects. Honestly, I have found that reading and posting on here is more helpful to me than writing in my journal, which I still try to do. Just like group therapy, we come here to know and hear that we aren't alone. There are always going to be the possibility of damaging effects, but I think most everyone on here is smart enough to know that situations vary SO much from case to case that one person's experience doesn't dictate someone else's. You aren't taking someone else's reality and applying it to your own. You're simply trying to figure out your own reality. This forum is what keeps me "okay" for a good part of the time. Therapy has this sneaky little tendency to turn my world on its axis week to week, and even if I'm not talking to anyone in person about it, at least I'm talking to someone. I just really cannot find fault in coming here to talk about our experiences. If this is what keeps you afloat, I think you need to do what you need.

quote:

I do wonder if sometimes they (Ts) can only offer so much before what they continue to offer becomes damaging to some of us and if beyond that, it's up to us - with our own pool of inner resources - to do the rest.

I think part of the reason it's so damaging is that we know that we won't be able to rely on that attachment forever - that someday, the cord will be cut. And if we can't make the best out of it now, and if we aren't getting the most out of it now, it makes the process that much worse. Sometimes it seems like we're all just preparing ourselves to be traumatized, because it's that inevitable. But ideally, I guess what we learn in therapy would help us deal with it once we're done. It's kind of like re-opening a wound, learning how to tend to it, watch it begin to heal, and then ripping it open again, but this time you have to remember how to tend to it by yourself. Awful stuff.

Oh (((MTF)))
I am so sorry you are feeling back in this all too familiar place. It really just seems to be a daily struggle that we are all trying to manage and some days (and strings of days) are worse than others unfortunately. The medication factor only complicates things. You really are not alone. I hear your pain and I feel your pain. (((hugs)))

I agree with LL in that raising the issues on your list with your current T is worth trying before looking for a new T. Unfortunately, I think that a lot of the things on the list would come up again with another T. Is there any chance you could talk to her directly about your fears regarding her treating you with a CBT approach? I know it's scary to think of the possibility of hearing an answer from her that you might not want to hear. I really think the fact that she has heard and accepted all that you have shared with her to this point is a good sign that she can deal with your stuff, wants to help you, and will be honest with you. Telling her as much as you can has eased your fears in the past. I don't recall you have ever posted that you have regretted telling her something.

I also personally think there is nothing wrong with finding support here. There are lots of other online places that in my opinion have the potential to be damaging. I am so thankful to have found a place with thoughtful and insightful people who are willing to take time to offer genuine and heartfelt responses to others including myself. I would agree with your H and your T if you were online in a fake world of some kind, but we are all real people here dealing with similar struggles and trying to help each other. This stuff is very relevant to your life right now and if coming here helps you feel supported and helps you grow and continue your journey, I can't see how that is bad in moderation. I also think that posting here is a step toward connecting with other people. (my T was actually proud of me for reaching out when I told her I was finding support here) Have you told her exactly how this place helps you or shared any of the insight you have gained from being here? It might help her see some benefit. Just my thoughts.

I really hope you are feeling a little better. I don't know about you, but holidays are always particularly difficult for me - another reminder of the lack of connection in my life.

Please try to remember that you are not alone.
(((MTF)))

Hi ladies,

Sorry it's been several days since you all posted to me and I've not replied. I figured I'd wait until I saw my T before I posted because I was in such a bad place and was really hoping that seeing her would get me out of that place. Well, no such luck. Don't know what to do now. I didn't actually end up telling her that I am spinning about her. Kind of gave her some cop-out about how I'm feeling disconnected from everyone (which is true), but I didn't tell her that the spinning was largely about her, nor did I read her the 4 pages I had typed up with stuff that needed to be aired. I hate it when I lose my nerve and just can't do it. That was the second time I've chickened out on something I knew I needed to do but just couldn't make myself do. Then I sit here afterwards and it eats at me for 2 VERY long and agonizing weeks and I kick myself for not doing it. ARGGHHHH!! Why???? I am about ready to call her office and see if she can get me in sooner and just tell her I'll go mad if I don't get this off my chest before the middle of the month. But then maybe it gives me some time to prepare myself to do it in a more personal way rather than just reading it. Like preparing to give an oral report in school, ya know? Hmmm. That's a good excuse... Either way I'm going to go nuts. I hate that I can't just get stuff out when I 'need' to.

We talked about my husband who dropped a bomb on me Sunday. Told me I'm destroying my children. How nice is that? I spent a lot of my session in tears. My T was a bit upset with my husband for that, told me to bring him back in so she can hold his feet to the fire. Oh yeah, so next session I guess I won't be able to get my stuff out either, it will be a whole month from now. Ugh. Guess I'd better call her. Man. She's going to be ticked at me for not being "butt-honest" with her. I hate that I feel like I can't be. I know she needs to know that I feel that way, too. I'm feeling like she's sick of me and my attachment issues. I told her that part of why I had such a hard time last week was because she said she would call me and didn't. She said she was sorry, but didn't sound that sincere. This was while I was listing off stuff about why I had a bad week so I didn't give her much of a chance to say anything though. I also told her I was back on here because I was feeling really disconnected. She started subtly shaking her head back and forth and I said, "_____, please don't shake your head at me." She stopped and got a guilty look on her face, like she wasn't meaning for me to see her shaking her head or something. I told her she doesn't understand this place or how much support I get here and that I feel understood by the people here. I told her I don't feel understood by my husband, my mother, and I told her I even feel like SHE doesn't understand me. I told her not to take that the wrong way, which was stupid of me (always trying to protect the other person's feelings). She didn't say anything in response to that at all. It made me feel really bad that she didn't even want to know why I feel that way or question why I would say that or how she can help me feel like she understands me better. Nothing at all. I had brought David Wallin's book "Attachment in Psychotherapy" with me and wanted to ask her to read the chapter called "the Dismissing Patient" so she could understand me better, but didn't bring it up and felt stupid for even thinking she might be interested after her not even batting an eye when I said I felt she doesn't even understand me. That really sucked.

She told me I need to talk to my husband about my feelings, about how I don't feel understood, how hurt I am over what he said to me and the big list of ways I'm destroying my kids that he gave me. I asked him for the list because to me a general statement like that needs a follow up of specifics. My T just always points to my primary relationships as the problems in my life. She doesn't see her and my relationship as meaning anything 'real', that it's just a microcosm of my real relationships, so I guess her attitude is sort of a what-does-it-matter-if-I-understand-you-or-not sort of thing, that it's more important that my DH understands me, which is true I guess, but it hurts that she doesn't want to understand me better, or at least show me that she seems interested at the very least. That's what hurt was her lack of concern that I feel that way.

I guess I'm coming to a point where I'm starting to view my T as any other professional. Like a doctor, dentist, lawyer, etc. Just someone there to offer professional treatment/advice and nothing more. My attachment to her seems to be starting to wane a bit and I am feeling sad about it but feeling a little like maybe this is her goal and that it's for the best? I don't know. Maybe I'm fooling myself, too. Maybe tomorrow I'm going to wake up and be so depressed I won't be able to function. My medication still isn't cutting it, so I'm crossing my fingers that it will kick in and help here soon, or I'm going to be a basket case.

Lamplighter:

I’m so sorry you’re without a T. Thanks for your sympathy. You're right about these being fundamental issues and I do need to discuss them with my T. Thanks for also letting me know that T shopping is a drag and that I may be better off staying where I am. Good to know and something to consider. And thanks for starting the "Unhelpful things" thread. Haven't posted there myself yet, but I've been in too bad a place and too angry. I don't want it to turn into a doom and gloom and a hate place. Good luck with finding a new T, or going back to your ex-T. I hope things work out for your best!


Mad Hatter:

quote:

Why can't you give me what I need to heal? It's not fair! Actually, I have thrown some tantrums. And I just end up butting against boundaries and feeling more pain. Sometimes I wonder if this attachment stuff doesn't just re-traumatize all over again.

Sorry you are feeling the same stuff, MH. It sucks. At least you've expressed your feelings to your T and gotten your 'stuff' out there. I know it's painful, but you've at least taken the risks. I haven't. So my T doesn't even 'get' me, or know what I'm feeling or what I need from her to heal. Even though I know she can't give it to me, I might be surprised by what she could give me, if I asked for something, but I haven't even asked. Too chicken. I hope you're doing better by now. (((MH)))


Monte:

quote:

I wonder if sometimes they (Ts) can only offer so much before what they continue to offer becomes damaging to some of us and if beyond that, it's up to us - with our own pool of inner resources - to do the rest.

Can they really heal us to a point where we when we leave them we feel in tip-top emotional condition - is that a fair, wise expectation that they could/should/might - or is their (even if THEY don't know it) purpose only to simply contribute to our journey?

I wonder, too. I feel now like I am becoming damaged by my T's lack of understanding and empathy. I feel like rather than trying to help me she is turning me away from her, like she is refusing to listen to my needs and help me because it's not her way and she refuses to do anything differently. IT HURTS LIKE HECK!!! And yeah, I feel like she thinks it's up to me to figure it out, or just turn to my husband and fix it through him, or my mother, or other women (girlfriends), etc. She's not it, in her mind. And I know she's not, but she won't be anything or accept that she's anything more to me than a trasference object. She can't be anything more than that because I don't really 'know' her. Pisses me off!!!!


Kashley:

quote:

This forum is what keeps me "okay" for a good part of the time. Therapy has this sneaky little tendency to turn my world on its axis week to week, and even if I'm not talking to anyone in person about it, at least I'm talking to someone. I just really cannot find fault in coming here to talk about our experiences. If this is what keeps you afloat, I think you need to do what you need.

Thanks, K. This is how I feel too and this is what I need to communicate to my T. She doesn't get what therapy does to me and how much I need someone to talk to about it, even if it's not a specific person in person, it's someone, or several people and I get good feedback and some normalization about my feelings and some good perspective and grounding when I need it. If she knew where I 'went' in my head sometimes after my sessions with her, I think my T would be thrilled that I come here, because otherwise she'd have a nuttier patient that she already has, or I'd be calling her all the time, which I am sure she wouldn't appreciate!!

quote:

I think part of the reason it's so damaging is that we know that we won't be able to rely on that attachment forever - that someday, the cord will be cut. And if we can't make the best out of it now, and if we aren't getting the most out of it now, it makes the process that much worse. Sometimes it seems like we're all just preparing ourselves to be traumatized, because it's that inevitable. But ideally, I guess what we learn in therapy would help us deal with it once we're done. It's kind of like re-opening a wound, learning how to tend to it, watch it begin to heal, and then ripping it open again, but this time you have to remember how to tend to it by yourself. Awful stuff.

Wow, that wound idea you and Monte have going on just makes a lot of sense to me. Good analogy ladies! I need to use that one on my T, too! She's love that!!! Especially the 'ripping' part. Nice touch, K! Hahaha! It's true though. I know when I leave my T, despite what SHE says, I'm going to feel like I just ripped open a wound and have to try and tend to it and help it heal on my own, and that's going to be SO HARD! Scares me just thinking about it.


Seablue

Thanks for your support and understanding. It means a lot. I know I'm not alone. Sad but true. It gives me comfort to know that but makes me feel bad for all the rest of you out there that know what I'm suffering through. It feels so unfair that we have to deal with any of this stuff to begin with.

I will try to talk to my T about her CBT approach, but I don't know that it will do any good. That was in my plans for yesterday's session, but like everything else it went out the window. I will have to give it a try though. I need more from her, but feel like she has such a giant caseload that it's selfish of me to ask her for anything more that what she's already give me, even if that isn't working. I pretty much know her answer will be 'no', but it is worth a try. At least I'm practicing asking for things I need, right? How uncomfortable. I suck at doing that! LOL! Thanks for reminding me that my T has heard and accepted me quite well up to this point and that I can trust that she's not going to slap me in the face with something horrible. I'm sure she can deal with me and my stuff and that it will be okay, even if I'm scared to put it out there.

quote:

if coming here helps you feel supported and helps you grow and continue your journey, I can't see how that is bad in moderation. I also think that posting here is a step toward connecting with other people. (my T was actually proud of me for reaching out when I told her I was finding support here) Have you told her exactly how this place helps you or shared any of the insight you have gained from being here? It might help her see some benefit. Just my thoughts.

I'm really thinking I should print off some stuff I've received from some of you wonderful people on here and bring it to a sesion to share with my T. Maybe then she could see for herself that this is a very supportive and helpful place for me. And if she feels the opposite after I share something good with her, then I'll really have reason to question her!! I'm really glad that your T was proud of you for reaching out and getting support here. This really is a great place!!


Thanks again to all of you for your support and kind words to me. It helps me a lot, and even if I don't get right back to you with a reply, I read your posts and appreciate them so much. Hugs of thanks to you all!

MTF

MTF,

I'm sorry your session didn't go the way that you wanted. It is so hard to make yourself vulnerable and bring up such difficult topics, especially when the topic directly involves your T. It sounds like to me that you and your T are having a series of miscommunications and misattunements and it is interfering with the relationship. For me, I would see it as a reg flag if my T didn't place value on our relationship and the attachment that naturally comes from that. To me, the relationship itself is such a significant part of the therapy that I don't think I could work if I didn't feel heard, understood and like my T was well attuned. I think to get into serious issues and especially issues involving past wounds and attachment we need a very secure and trusting base with our T. Perhaps I am reading too much into what you said, but it doesn't sound like you are trusting your T very much right now. I think asking to be seen earlier is a great idea. I know that when T and I have issues between us, nothing else can really get done until we deal with our relationship first.

As far as what your husband said that is a very hurtful thing to say. I hope that you are able to find some resolution to whatever issues there are between the two of you.

I'm sorry it is so hard right now. ((((MTF))))

(((( MTF ))))

That is so crap that you had a lousy session. There’s so much going on for you right now I’ve got to admire you for being able to write about it here so clearly. And for what it’s worth I think you’re in the right for standing up to your T and DH about posting on the forum - this IS a special place and maybe you could get that clear to them just how much good it does you so they get off your back about spending too much time here!

I have to say I was pretty gobsmacked by what your husband said - that sounds like a pretty vicious and attacking way of getting his point across. Was he trying shock tactics or something? I think you need to give yourself a bit of leeway here - issues like that with your H are bound to be the more pressing problems on your mind so not being able to talk to your T about the stuff between you and her right now is actually understandable. I really hope he said that in anger and not that he really meant it!

Have to say when I was reading about your experiences with T in session I was thinking hell that’s so familiar, that desperate need to be understood and even telling someone they don’t understand they don’t seem to get it. And I was formulating all sorts of replies in my head and then I got to the dreaded acronym CBT!!! That’s exactly why I ended up finishing with ex-T - that even though he was really willing to go along with my needing to express how I FELT rather than going down the let’s try and fix this rationally road he really couldn’t help himself, CBT must be in his blood or something because he just didn’t KNOW to focus on my feelings, couldn’t find the ways to enable me to go with feelings - we ended up talking about rather than doing.

Having said that, once I was clear in my own mind about what I thought I needed from therapy and explained it to him (umpteen times and in umpteen different variations) he really did accept it and tried to modify his approach to meet my need. So what I’m saying is that despite your T having the CBT approach she may well be able to give you more of what you need (as opposed to what she considers therapeutically ‘good’ for you) if you are able to spell it out for her. It’s really worth risking that because from the sounds of it you are getting pretty disconnected so her way of relating to you is getting less helpful - and you’ve said in other posts how good she is and how much you like and trust her so rather than shutting down on it maybe laying out your cards so to speak could be a really useful thing for you to do?

I do hope you make an earlier appointment - you’ve got so much to deal with right now and it can only be a good thing to try and sort some of it out as soon as you can.

MTF I really hope you are coping ok :hug:

Lamplighter

MTF,
How frustrating and confusing. It sounds to me like you needed more than an hour to get everything out. I am sure the issues with H were on your mind, but the problems w/ your T must feel equally pressing. Try to be gentle with yourself - holding back talking about the problems you are feeling with your T may not have been about chickening out, but more about being in a place where you were spinning so badly that you didn't know where to start and then where to go. I am also wondering if it is easier to talk to about H than T - in that case it is natural that you would continue to talk about H because you did also need to talk about that situation and probably didn't have time for both. Also want to say I am sorry that he said such a hurtful thing to you. Not fair - especially using the kids.
I hope you can take take care of yourself by asking for a session sooner than 2 weeks. I think it is perfectly normal to feel so upset about the disconnect. I can only speak for myself and God knows I am not good at this stuff, but I think that this is what happens in therapy with people who have attachment injury. It seems obvious that there are going to be issues with the attachment. I have recognized a pattern in myself - the struggle with feeling connected one week then start freaking out/spinning about something she said or something I think of that may or may not be real and then automatically withdraw and all but accuse her of just pretending to care as I am sitting there with my arms crossed in front of me at the next session. My way of keeping some distance. It is beyond confusing and frustrating, but I think it is just part of it - if there weren't problems in the relationship, then you wouldn't probably be dealing with attachment injury. It is so difficult for anything to feel ok when there is a feeling of disconnect. Also, I don't know about you, but I think since I have started to be much more open with my T, I have noticed that when I hold back and don't tell her something important, it gets way bigger until I finally do. Sorry if this wasn't helpful - I wish I could make it less painful.
Please keep posting so you can feel supported - it is healthy to reach out - at least I think so! (((MTF)))

Oh - and girl!! I am proud of you for calling your T on her shaking her head at you!!

My T called me almost ten minutes before 8 a.m. this morning. She had some addiction recovery program graduation last night until 10 p.m. and couldn't call me back so she was getting back to me as soon as possible today. She's funny sometimes. She is crazy busy taking on some other therapist's patients this next 3 weeks while he's on vacation so I don't how she got me in, but she fit me in to a 9 a.m. slot this coming Wednesday morning. Whew and yikes at the same time! I am both relieved and freaked now! Now I have to worry about what to tell her and how. At least I can 'rehearse' what I want to say so I can hopefully do it without reading anything other than maybe a cue card. That's my goal, although I realize it's a lofty one. Now if I can just keep from spinning out of control between now and my session worrying about how it's going to go.


STRM:

Nice to meet you! Thanks for the post and for reaching out. You made some good points:

quote:

I would see it as a red flag if my T didn't place value on our relationship and the attachment that naturally comes from that. To me, the relationship itself is such a significant part of the therapy that I don't think I could work if I didn't feel heard, understood and like my T was well attuned.

This is a red flag for me, too. In the past I have posted about red flags and worried excessively about my T and her placing seemingly little value on my attachment to her. We've had our ups and downs with that, that's for sure. I'm spinning on that again and I'm sure she'll be a bit irritated with me about that (because she's assured me that my attachement to her is important), but I think I'm the type that needs constant reassurance from my T that being attached to her is okay, and that she accepts that. If she really doesn't accept it and isn't okay with it, then I'm going to have to just find a T that is okay with it because like you said, it is so crucial to the relationship, especially for people like me that have attachment injury issues. I think things will be okay, I just get in bad places sometimes, and have to realize my T is human too. She sounded much better herself today, and maybe she was having a bad day herself at my last session. Who knows. But I will definitely work through all of this stuff with her because it's important stuff to put out there and have resolved. Thanks again for reaching out in support. I really appreciate it!


Lamplighter:

Thanks for the support. Things are better with H, and we did talk. He did mean what he said, but he said he didn't mean to hurt me. He's a bit dense sometimes and doesn't think about the hurt he inflicts, or maybe he does get it but doesn't realize the depth of the pain it can cause. I don't know. He's apologized, but hasn't withdrawn the statement as being something he feels as true. Just having support from all of you ladies here (and my T, too) has helped me not feel so crappy about it though.

I get the part about your ex-T and the CBT. I too feel like my T must have CBT in her blood. I hope she'll work with me though, and really try. She has given me more of herself in the past, so I think she can and will be more for me if she realizes how much it can help me in my therapy. That's why I want her to read Wallin's book because her understanding the dismissing attachment style and how she as a therapist can help me as such will be hugely helpful to me. I'm crossing my fingers (and toes) on that one. We'll see. It's true what you reminded me of, that I do like my T and I trust her, so being open with her and laying it all on the table really is the best, most useful thing for me to do at this point. Thanks for pointing that out, as I've been in such a dark spot it's been hard to 'see' things clearly. I appreciate your support, LL!!


Seablue:

Thanks for your kind comments. You always 'get' me so well. You and Monte are just like my forum sisters, and it's so nice to have people here who really understand what this crud feels like, although I feel bad that you do understand it.

quote:

I have recognized a pattern in myself - the struggle with feeling connected one week then start freaking out/spinning about something she said or something I think of that may or may not be real and then automatically withdraw and all but accuse her of just pretending to care as I am sitting there with my arms crossed in front of me at the next session. My way of keeping some distance. It is beyond confusing and frustrating, but I think it is just part of it - if there weren't problems in the relationship, then you wouldn't probably be dealing with attachment injury. It is so difficult for anything to feel ok when there is a feeling of disconnect. Also, I don't know about you, but I think since I have started to be much more open with my T, I have noticed that when I hold back and don't tell her something important, it gets way bigger until I finally do.

You articulated that well for me. And yeah, until I get something important out there to my T, it does get way bigger and I spin about it so much more until I get it out and it's over with. That's why I know it's going to make me crazy until Wednesday, but a week earlier than it would've been otherwise is better than nothing, so I'll take it!

And thanks for continuing to encourage me to reach out here and for being proud of me for calling my T on her shaking her head at me. I still can't believe I did THAT!! So not like me! Guess I am making some kind of progress!


Monte:

No you weren't sounding harsh, just real, which is why I appreciate your support so much. You always tell me how it is without the sugar coating! You and I are so much alike in many ways in our therapy that it is nice to have someone who relates to me, and I appreciate your honesty and efforts to help me see things from a healthy and real perspective. Thank you, Monte!! Your 'Rejection Radar' analogy makes 100% sense to me and resonates with how I do therapy with my T. I needed to hear it put that way. No, she's not perfect, she doesn't do things MY way, never will, won't meet my expectations perfectly EVER, and I will never fully understand her because I can't read her mind. And I need to realize she's in the same boat when the table is turned. This really stood out to me, too:

quote:

I just want to see his positive human traits, not the less than desirable ones. I want perfection. Perfect parent figure. Pfffttt...ain't gonna happen. I think the longer you pine for such stuff the bigger and more unrealistic the need becomes. If you have pined for it for decades, your expectations are going to be huge, maybe even distorted.

I think you hit the nail on the head for me here. I have huge expectations of my T that of course are so unrealistic. She's perfectly acceptable 'as is' and I need to just accept her that way and stop trying to change her. Sure, she's always open to new things, and maybe she'll try something new for me, but I need to accept the fact that she may tell me she's not going to do anything different with me. I have to be willing to face that possibility, even if it hurts. So I have some pondering and decision making to do. I have a new perspective now, thanks to you!! Thank you, Monte!! I will keep pushing through the fear, as you keep encouraging me to do.

I will be thinking about you and hope that your appointment with your own T goes well this upcoming Tuesday. I am sure you're nervous about how that will go. But after the way your T gushed over the last set of artwork you took in to him, I'm sure he will appreciate what you have done this time. I am praying he will see the value in it on a therapeutic level and really 'get' what you are tying to accomplish through it with him. Tough stuff! I'm really hoping hard for you!!! Praying this is it!! Hang in there!!! (((((Monte)))))



Thanks again everyone for your support. It always means so much to me and is why I love this place and keep coming back. You all are so wonderful!!

MTF

Had my session today that my T got me into after I called her and asked her to see me before I go in with my DH next week. It wasn't what I was hoping it would be, but it was interesting.

I told my T I was struggling with the therapeutic relationship, that I always end up spinning about it when I do spin. I couldn't really define what it is I spin about, not yet. I wish I could just spill it all, but I feel like I'm getting somewhere finally. She knows now that I fear her reactions to things I say, that I don't feel like I can be my true self with her. I told her I feel like that with my DH too. I'm starting to see parallels in my relationships here. Scary. It's true what they say about transference I guess (sort of).

I told her I feel like running, and then wanting to come back. She said I have to practice doing scary things, pushing myself. That therapy is tough work. Once I get comfortable, it's time to up the ante. She knows I struggle and that it's hard for me and that I have a lot on my plate right now and that is why she doesn't push me. I also told her though that I feel like she doesn't push me enough. Ooops. That was maybe a mistake. I said I feel like she doesn't confront or challenge me, that she let me off the hook about the internet searching too easily and that I expected to see her feelings about that. She acted a little strange when I said that, so I called and left her a message and hopefully she'll call me later today because now I'm spinning about her reaction. It doesn't feel right. She said she's not technically savvy, and that if her kids are stupid enough to have blogs and stuff and put their personal info out there for people to find, that's their problem. Thing is, that's not how I found the info, it was through Facebook and some other means and it took LOTS of sleuthing and hours of searching. I don't quite think she gets it. She just seemed a bit uncomfortable when I told her she didn't say anything about how she felt about it, whether it bothered her and that I expected her to say that it had. That's when she gave me the line about her kids being stupid. She seemed uncomfortable about something, and it's bothering me. So I need to get to the bottom of it, if I can. We'll see. This might be another one of those things I don't get a resolution on, but I'm going to give it my best shot anyway.

I also wonder if I should have told her she doesn't challenge me or confront me enough because then she really did! She told me it's because I don't like her "Put on your big girl panties and DEAL WITH IT!" sign. Okay... So I told her I think I can deal with her. She said she's a kick butt person, which any of you who have followed any of my previous posts know already, and I told her I know that and feel like I can handle her. I told her that last time I stood up for myself when she shook her head at me about coming back here to the forums, and she agreed, so then she really laid into me about standing up to my DH about stuff, not letting him treat me like he's my father, taking a stand for my kids, finding a house and moving out of my in-laws apartment we've been in for 6 years, and stuff like that. She really stepped back into her 'old self' role with me and although it took me off guard, it was nice to 'see' her again, as I think she backed off A LOT after I talked to her about her sign. I didn't realize that telling her that impacted how she was treating me, but to have her tell me that was kind of a shocker! I guess it was good to ask her to challenge me. Hopefully I'll get my old T back. I've missed her. She's been different for a while now, and I was starting to think that it was because she was sick of me, didn't like me anymore, wanted me to find a new T, or something along those lines. So much for the 'butt honesty'. Seems almost like SHE hasn't been butt honest with ME! Maybe I need to tell her that, too! Ugh. What to do?

Well, that's about it. Not what I'd expected, as I'd written about 5 pages of stuff to talk to her about, not wanting to read it to her, but refer to it. I didn't even open it up. I just tried to remember it and it didn't go so well. Next time I think I'll write myself a few index cards or something easier to reference. She asked me if I would let her read it and if that would make it easier! Uh, no. It wasn't even ready for me to just read out loud, sort of a rough draft. That would have been a disaster. Anyway, I'm glad to have made some progress with my T today. It feels better, but I wish sessions could last as long as we need them to. That's the part that's tough. I never get out even a fraction of what needs to be aired sometimes. Such a pity, too. Next Wednesday is my couples session. THAT is the one I'm dreading.

MTF

Monte,

Thanks for posting again, and sorry your first message got lost. I hate it when that happens. I appreciate you taking the time to type a whole new message to me. Thank you!!

Yes, the slow progress is painstaking, or a pain in the arse--take your pick!!

quote:

Maybe that is a good thing in that through that experience we learn something about trust. We can see that even if it doesn't look like the scene we were dwelling upon and hoping for, it can still be good, that we can receive something good from a significant other. We can slack off on those controls, learn that the unknown can bring benefits rather than hold desperately to what we feel 'good' should look like. Something about flexibility, openness to other possibilities etc.

I don't know how you do it, but you always seem to say the right things. Must be that 'forum twin' vibe or something, in that you just know what I need to hear. Thanks again. You're so good at picking these good things out of situations I can only see negative in. It's nice to come here and get a fresh perspective on my oftentimes gloomy outlook on things with my T.

quote:

Some things can't be forced and if they are, maybe the result is less satisfactory than if it had been let to evolve or happen naturally. What do you reckon?

Well, wise Monte, I reckon that you are right yet again! And the part about letting go and going with the flow...yeah, that too. My T called and I told her about how her calling her kids "stupid" for having their stuff on the internet bothered me. I told her I wanted to know how she felt about my search activity, and she basically said she wants me to let it go, that she doesn't think anything of it, I'm not a threat, never have been, she trusts me. She wants me to put the spinning down and move forward. Wish it were that easy. It IS nice to have their gentle care, isn't it? She told me today she cares about my progress, about ME. Made me feel good to know that and hear it again. But yeah, TOUGH does have to step back in and take the reigns, cos I've got a bit too comfortable and need a kick in the pants to get me going! And I KNOW my T will give me that kick now that I've asked for it!

Thanks for your support and encouragement, Monte. It means a great deal, as always!

MTF

Hi Monte,

Thanks! You've got quite the memory!

It was pretty bad, as I sat there most of the time not even looking at my T and feeling disconnected from her. I hate couples sessions. They leave me feeling weird. She spent most of the time trying to convince my husband that putting our oldest son on medication for ADHD would be beneficial, as he (my husband) is strongly opposed to medication and wanted to just try behavioral methods and stuff like that. My husband is fed up with therapy and my therapist, so when she asked him if he was willing to come back in a month he told her no. She asked why and the answer was about me and our marriage, so it made me sad and I left the session feeling pretty depressed about life. We lack a lof of affection, communication, warmth and genuine caring in our marriage, so it is a lonely feeling relationship. It's mostly my fault too, as the emotional deprivation I suffered in childhood caused me to feel smothered by the affection my husband was giving in the early days of our marriage and I pushed him away in many ways. There's a lot of issues there and I've done a lot of damage and I don't think he feels it's repairable, and sometimes I wonder if I can do it myself. Rebuilding trust and love is not easy, that's for sure. Especially when you feel like crap every day and struggle to make it through the day doing the bare necessities.

On a positive note, we are signing on a new home that we'll have to wait on to be built, but that's a big deal for us, as we've rented our whole 16 years of marriage and our boys need more space, and a yard to play. So that's got me feeling pretty happy. Scared about the financial burdens, but glad to have a place of my own finally. And my T is going to flip when I get to tell her the news. I didn't tell her yesterday because I want it to be something I do when I have her all to myself. She's the one who has been pushing me to get into a home, so I think she'll be proud of me, as it took a bit of threating the husband to make it happen! I can't wait to see her reaction, although I'm sure I'm doing that scenario-izing and will be let down when the moment actually comes. I need to make my scenario a bit less exciting I think.

Thanks for asking about me! Means a lot!

MTF