Ugh. I feel like all I ever do on the forums here is complain about my problems, so I hope you all will forgive me, but I don't have anywhere else where I feel like I can go. I'm in a really scared place right now and I've been crying every day for the past week. Almost 2 weeks ago I went into my last session with my T and read her a 3 page letter that told her how hurt I was that for almost 4 months now she has been dismissing/avoiding the issue of my attachment to her. She rejected my phone call for help about this 4 months ago and did a sort of "back-off" from me that left me feeling totally abandoned by her. At our last session she apologized to me profusely for hurting me, asked me if she had destroyed my trust in her completely (to which I replied no, because I honestly don't know anymore) and even teared up and asked me if I could ever forgive her. I told her I forgive her, as she seemed so shaken up over the fact that she had hurt me and that her behavior and actions had caused me to become so obsessed about my relationship with her. I thought I had forgiven her and naively thought that once I had "cleared things up" with her at that session, everything would be fine.

Well, she didn't actually answer any of my questions, as there wasn't enough time; I was left feeling that the reasons she backed off from me were not disclosed (e.g. was it me, or was it her own issues? How could she tell me I'm not a "freak" when her actions made me feel like she thought of me as one, etc.) and while a huge part of me wants to forgive her and just move on, there's still a part of me that is so hurt and confused. I already have trust issues, and it was so hard for me to trust my T in the first place, but now that she has abandoned and rejected me I am really scared about putting my trust in her again. She asked me if we could just start over, but how do you start over when the person you're "starting over" with has a "past" with you that you can't be sure you can trust? Now I fear that as soon as I put my trust in her, I'll do something or say something to trigger her and she'll withdraw again and I'll be left alone feeling abandoned. And I don't think I could take that again.

So I don't know what to do at my upcoming session Friday. I KNOW I need to talk to her about this stuff, that I can't just stuff it and pretend that it's no big deal, but I don't know how to do it without being confrontational and making it into a it's-all-your-fault-you're-the-bad-guy sort of thing where she feels attacked and gets defensive, especially where I know she feels bad and apologized and I told her I forgive her. I just feel like I have so many questions and things that need to be resolved, but I am really scared of opening up that can of worms with her AGAIN after thinking it was resolved last session. I think that my T hopes for her own sake that it was all resolved last session too, so I fear that bringing up her actions and my feelings about them are going to end up making her hate me, or at the least, dislike me very much. She wanted me to bring in some lists of comparisons between my parents and people I've been attached to in the past so we can see the similarities and the differences between them. I haven't even been able to get past my fear of what I'm going to do about my T enough to get my "homework" done. So there's another thing she can be upset with me about. I feel horrible right now. I wonder how I'm ever going to progress in therapy when I wonder if I can actually put my faith in my therapist again. Why is therapy so agonizing sometimes?

MTF

First of all, I'm so sorry you're in pain about this, MTF.

quote:

Originally posted by More Than Fine:
She asked me if we could just start over, but how do you start over when the person you're "starting over" with has a "past" with you that you can't be sure you can trust? Now I fear that as soon as I put my trust in her, I'll do something or say something to trigger her and she'll withdraw again and I'll be left alone feeling abandoned. And I don't think I could take that again.

This made me think back to the "communication model" I learned about in one of my classes. There are 10 fundamental principles of communication, one of them being that communication is irreversible. My professor used the example of a jury: it is truly impossible for the jury to "disregard" something that has been said, and whatever it was will consciously or unconsciously manipulate your actions and choices. It's human nature. So it's totally understandable that you are having serious doubts that "starting over" will accomplish anything. In my personal opinion, ESPECIALLY in the therapy setting, starting over just isn't possible.

I ache for you, MTF, because I know (almost) exactly what you're dealing with. I've had so many doubts about trusting my T, and my mind has run through worst case scenarios about my T doing something that would sever the small amount of trust I have built. So my imagination is one of the biggest hindrances I have to establishing and keeping trust, because it's so hard to think of a relationship in my life where I feel safe enough to have confidence in someone. When I was still in individual therapy, my doubts were very, very slowly squashed each week, but they were still there, and the worst case scenarios still ran through my head. If I were in your position, I would probably end up either stopping therapy or just clam up, because I don't know if I could make myself vulnerable again. I think it's incredibly brave of you to face these issues even with the severe breach in trust. But, since trust is such an issue, I know that it might be (as it is for me) hard to recognize the point where you have to trust in yourself that you are not at fault and the other person abused your trust in them.

I don't know a whole lot about it, but a lot of this sounds like countertransference to me. Your T is withdrawing, seemingly to keep from hurting you again, but she is transferring those fears to you as well. So there is a mutual withdrawal happening. Doesn't sound healthy.

quote:

I think that my T hopes for her own sake that it was all resolved last session too, so I fear that bringing up her actions and my feelings about them are going to end up making her hate me, or at the least, dislike me very much.

There's so much wrong with that...you absolutely should not have to set aside your own needs to satiate those of your therapist. I would hope that she realizes that, considering how deeply hurt you were by her actions (and inactions), the problems that arose simply cannot be addressed in one session. Those issues would (and absolutely should) span several sessions. I know it's so much easier for me to say, but you should really try to emphasize to your T that you are having a hard time re-establishing your trust in her. Your T owes it to you to listen with compassion and understanding.

Hi K. It's nice to "meet" you. Thank you for responding to me. I appreciate your insight, as your perspective helped me see things a little differently, and I needed that.

I agree that starting over isn't really possible, and I guess it seems contradictory to me that a T would even suggest that. I feel that what she should have said was that she would appreciate my being willing to allow her to earn back my trust. I'm like you, in that my imagination is also a huge hindrance in establishing and keeping trust for the same reasons, and yeah, I have thought about stopping therapy, and I can see myself being totally shut down Friday because I've done it before and wasted two sessions doing that. I think I know that the issue really was with my T and not with me, but I guess I really just need to hear it from her, and she seems sort of unwilling to own it and admit to me that it was her issue. She said something along the lines of, "we both assumed things..." blah blah blah, and didn't ever accept responsibility for the fact that she withdrew herself and her support from me when I really needed it and never said why she did it other than to give me her cop-out excuse (to me it's a cop-out) that she didn't want me to be "too dependent" on her. But then she turned around and said that she believes attachment in therapy is crucial to a successful outcome, so I've gotten so many mixed messages I don't know what to believe. I think it's a lot more countertransference than she's willing or able to admit, and maybe I'm just expecting or wishing that she would swallow her professional/personal pride and admit that she's not perfect and that she made a mistake and has her own issues. I still feel like it's me, even though I also feel like it's not. Until she tells me it's NOT me, I don't know that I can be SURE that it's NOT me. UGH.

Thanks for validating my concern that these issues aren't things that can be cleared up in one session. I know I shouldn't have to set aside my needs to make my T feel better, but I just am that way. I always feel that I have to take care of the other person's feelings before my own. I hate that. She seemed so upset that she had hurt me that I don't want to get her upset again and end up falling into the trap of feeling like I have to take care of her needs instead of taking care of mine. I wish I knew how to stop doing that. I will try to put my needs first this time and remember that my therapy is about me, not my T.

Thanks again for your reply--it really has been helpful to me.

MTF

MTF, I don't really have time to reply to your post (just came to work), but I hope you will be able to grow your trust. She passed the last test, but this is not all you need to trust her. Your attachment matters and your fear matters as well.

{{{{{MTF}}}}}

What you describe sounds so familiar. I'm not very good at dealing with conflict at all...it terrifies me beyond belief...so when I get the nerve to confront, as you did, I feel so relieved when the response doesn't appear to be the backlash that I expected, that I don't really realize what was said (and not said) until later, when my emotions have died down and the rational part of my brain has re-engaged.

quote:

She seemed so upset that she had hurt me that I don't want to get her upset again and end up falling into the trap of feeling like I have to take care of her needs instead of taking care of mine. I wish I knew how to stop doing that. I will try to put my needs first this time and remember that my therapy is about me, not my T.

When you first described her response, there was something about it that bugged me and you just put your finger on it. It seemed a little much...and this is why. You shouldn't have to feel like you have to take care of her. She is supposed to meet all of her needs outside of your therapy, including the need to have you soothe her when she's upset. That's a subtle one though because she was upset with herself about not meeting your needs...tricky, tricky. But you caught it.

I don't know for sure what the right decision is for you, but I'm so glad you are here talking about it. And I'd really like to just second what Kashley said because she said it so well:

quote:

There's so much wrong with that...you absolutely should not have to set aside your own needs to satiate those of your therapist. I would hope that she realizes that, considering how deeply hurt you were by her actions (and inactions), the problems that arose simply cannot be addressed in one session. Those issues would (and absolutely should) span several sessions. I know it's so much easier for me to say, but you should really try to emphasize to your T that you are having a hard time re-establishing your trust in her. Your T owes it to you to listen with compassion and understanding.

I will be thinking about you tomorrow...good luck, MTF!

SG

MTF,
So sorry you are struggling. It is such a scary and vulnerable place to be. I am so glad you are here.

I absolutely agree with others that the damage that was done was deep and can not realistically be repaired in one session. It sounds like your T has been doing this long enough to realize that. MTF, not only is it unfair to disregard you own VERY VALID feelings and concerns, it may be a missed opportunity and end up being detrimental to YOU and the relationship - which is about YOU. I really think the more you can put out there (I know how hard it is), the more opportunity there is for the repair to happen. Honestly, I can't imagine your T wouldn't expect for the healing to happen over time, and not instantaneously. Your last session sounds like it was so emotionally charged for you and your T - she may also come to your session with new insights.
Your fear she may become angry and defensive is, I am guessing familiar to all of us here. It is hard to take risks with your trust - and even harder when the trust has been damaged. I will be thinking of you, and I hope you can get some resolve at your session tomorrow. (((MTF)))

Thank you ladies for your replies. I really appreciate the encouragement I get from all of you, and your great insight, as I have such a hard time being objective about my own stuff. I want to reply to all of you individually, but right now I have so much in my head and I'm spinning out in my mind and just need to get it all out. I'm sorry. I have more to vent and didn't want to start a new thread since I'm already complaining here and figured I might as well continue on my already existing thread.

My T just called to remind me of our session tomorrow (this is her routine). She sounded distant again, all back to business like I'm just another one of her many other patients, super short to-the-point "your appointment's at ten, does that still work for you? See you tomorrow" things. I'm getting really angry. I'm feeling so disconnected, which sucks after having felt more connected with her last session than I have ever really felt with any other human being in my life, period. I hate that I only see her twice a month, yet can't really fix that because of insurance reasons. I have this feeling I'm going to go in there and she's going to act like she can't remember anything having happened between us (meaning she's going to put on some act that things are like they were before it all happened and that my feelings and issues are going to be avoided again) and that she is going to play the forgetful therapist and I'm going to waste the first 10-15 minutes bringing her up to speed on where I'm at. Actually if that's what happens I think I'll just shut down and tell her that it's her turn to figure out what's going on, or maybe I'll even get the guts to just get up and walk out on her. Something inside me feels like tomorrow the bomb is going to go off--the one that tells me that I've been in denial that this woman really cannot and is not going to help me, that I'm going to have to leave her and find a new therapist. Frankly I'm scared as hell to go tomorrow, almost worse that last session where I had to read my big scary letter. I've been fighting myself with all of the strength I can possibly muster to make this work, and somewhere I just feel that it's not going to work. I don't know if I'm just doubting, if it's the whole trust issue, if it's the disconnect/separation thing, if it's her lack of honesty/openness, if it's my fears/uncertainties about what I think she thinks about me, or what? And at the rate that things are getting resolved (super slowly) I feel like it's going to take an eternity to get somewhere with this and my life has been literally at a standstill for 4 months now because this "relationship" has taken over my life and I don't get anything else done. I'm all consumed by it, night and day. I get to bed at 1 or 2 a.m. because my mind is busy worrying about my relationship with my T and what I am going to do about it, what's really going on, how are things going to get fixed, etc., etc., etc....It's literally making me crazy and I'm starting to wonder if therapy is helping me or harming me (I think it's the latter). I feel like I've actually been traumatized by all of this and wonder if I should seek healing through another therapist. I feel at least ten times worse today than I felt when I entered therapy six months ago, and something tells me that is just all wrong. I realize therapy can be painful, but where do you draw the line between healthy pain and unhealthy pain? I seriously feel like tomorrow I might go into her office and literally explode at her because I'm beginning to feel some real anger, and that's not really me. I'm not usually angry, although I'm starting to see that I have a LOT of anger that has been repressed and bottled up for SO so long. I don't want to scare my T, but I feel like she is just so clueless or something. I don't know WHAT she is. Annoying, to say the least. It's hard to say that too. To go from idealizing someone and "loving" them and thinking they are the greatest person on the earth to suddenly thinking they are a hurtful, cruel, untrustworthy, maybe even malicious. I hate feeling this way and having all of these doubts and maybe even being completely paranoid. I wish I could see this all clearly and be rid of the fear and anxiety this all brings. I just want my life back. I want to be a mother to my boys and feel like I can be a HEALTHY mother, not a dysfunctional one. My house is such a disaster, and I have no desire to do anything to fix it. I don't take care of myself at all, and most days I sit here all day, in my pajamas, or at best--dressed but with my hair unkempt and no make-up on. My dishes sit in the sink until right before my husband comes home from work, and I manage to get only the bare minimum done. I wonder how people that have a family and a full-time job or school actually live!! UGH!! I just want to be able to function, and my T isn't really helping me get there. Is that too high an expectation that I have of her? My depression today is worse than it was before I started on medication in October, and I'm on my 3rd medication with none of them having worked so far. Can you tell I'm getting to the end of my rope!?

Anyway, if you're listening and have got this far, thanks. I just feel pretty alone these days...

MTF

quote:

Originally posted by More Than Fine:
I just want to be able to function, and my T isn't really helping me get there. Is that too high an expectation that I have of her?

Your therapist may not be able to eliminate world hunger, but she should certainly be able to help you function! Based on what I've read, and especially your latest post, you should really look for another therapist. IMHO, if you feel as if you've been traumatized, even if the thought and/or feeling is fleeting, that is a huge red flag. And since it's becoming clear that your therapist may not be "getting it," then maybe you should go find someone else who can help you.

Maybe this is one of those situations where you've experienced the bad end of the (therapy) spectrum, but now you'll be able to recognize a healthier therapeutic relationship. I'm only speculating, though, because I know that I'm pretty much blinded to the more objective perspective of my relationship with my individual therapist and with the two group leaders I work with. I know that, when it comes to me, any doubts I have about their abilities or intentions just drive me crazy, because I inevitably convince myself that I am the one doing whatever is wrong. I think it has so much to do with the trust we put in them, because they are truly privileged people in our lives for us to give them our trust. It seems like there have maybe been some red flags for a while, MTF, but you're only able to start seeing them because that pedestal that we tend to put our therapists on has been removed from beneath your therapist.

But take my words with a grain of salt, because Lord knows I could probably never actually do any of the things I'm talking about.

(((MTF))) I'll be thinking about you tomorrow!

MTF, I read your post and I think that you should stick to your therapist. Difficult as it is give yourself a chance to trust. Don't run away just yet.
I really hope she will be caring and understandig to your feelings of fear, distrust and anger.

When I went to my session just after spilling things out about my feelings for my T, I was so frightened I could bearly speak. I wanted to see him so badly, yet I could not imagine how could I face him now when he knows. I was so terrfied that he must have thought I am going to give up and run away from therapy.

I really hope your session will go well, I hope she is good and caring therapist and with every passing session you will feel safer.

Hi MTF, I'm coming to this thread a little late. I am also thinking of you today. So sorry for the pain and confusion you are having. I don't know the difference between healthy and unhealthy pain. It's all just PAIN!!!! Sincerely hoping you find the courage to talk about the elephant in the room with your T and that it leads to some relief.

MTF,
Wondering how you are doing. Please let us know how your session went.

quote:

My T just called to remind me of our session tomorrow (this is her routine). She sounded distant again, all back to business like I'm just another one of her many other patients, super short to-the-point "your appointment's at ten, does that still work for you? See you tomorrow" things. I'm getting really angry. I'm feeling so disconnected, which sucks after having felt more connected with her last session than I have ever really felt with any other human being in my life, period.

MTF, I could have written that myself. So many times I have been totally convinced that my T was angry with me, wanted to be rid of me, thought I was an idiot (and many other nasty things) and once I brought it up in session none of it was true. My T likes to tease me that it's interesting that I can tell him exactly how he feels but none of it is true.

I think everyone gave you good advice and I just want to add two thoughts that came to mind. First, I think it's exactly because you felt so connected in the last session that you are feeling this way... you may be looking for a reason to run from your T because it's gets really uncomfortable when you dare to move closer. So now you need to back away and you are looking for reasons to justify doing so. If you acknowledge just how intense the relationship is and how important she is to you.... well then you have a LOT to lose if something should happen and so you want to back away first. It's the "I'll leave you before you can leave me" feeling.

The other thing I want to mention is that people who have attachment injury and have what is classified as "disorganized attachment" have a tendency to want to run away and run towards the therapist (who is now the Attachment Figure) at the same time almost, which makes things a bit tricky. We learned in the past that moving towards the AF could be dangerous but we needed them to survive as well and so the running to/running away syndrome happens. It is confusing as all heck and I had no idea what was going on with me until a very dear friend helped me to identify this in myself. And after two years with a really caring, empathic T I am still looking for reasons to run away from him because getting closer and closer is raising the hairs on the back of my neck as it feels more and more dangerous.

I think the best thing to do is to stick it out with this T and face the issues and allow her to help you heal. It's certainly not easy and yes, therapy gets really, painfully hard and gut wrenching before you feel better.

My best advice is to tell your T how you are feeling and to stick it out with her for awhile anyway. Good luck and please let us know how your session went.

TN

Okay, time for an update (and a warning that it's a long one). Thanks SB for reminding me that I hadn't done that yet. It seems I get the session over with and feel such a huge sense of relief (and in the case of today, a huge sense of exhaustion because I've been getting a consistent 4-5 hours of sleep every night for weeks now and it's taken it's toll finally) and forget that some of you are so kindly wondering how things went for me. Thank you for keeping me in your thoughts. That means so much to me, I can't even express it.

I looked horrible this morning. With all of my sleep deprivation and after bottoming out yesterday I looked liked I was half dead. My T asked me right off the bat, before we even made it to her office if I was okay, so even she noticed I wasn't my usual self. I told her I wasn't okay, and that I had hit rock bottom and was really depressed and struggling. She asked me if it was because of what had happened last session, and I said it was, but really that it was because of the past four months. She asked me if I felt that I had been traumatized by it all and I told her that I did. Then came the dreaded and totally unexpected question from her: Would I like her to transfer me to another therapist? Wow...that one hit me HARD. I sat there in shock for what seemed like at least five minutes before I could even answer her. I have thought about that as maybe being a solution to all of this, but something in me has been really fighting against it. At first I felt really hurt that she would suggest it but knew she was looking out for my best interest; it just felt really painful. She didn't say anything for a few minutes, she just let me sit with the feelings and the idea. Finally she said she was only suggesting it because she didn't want to see me suffer any more harm and also didn't want me to stay just because I was afraid of hurting her feelings by leaving. My heart was so torn because I really just wanted to work things out with her.

She asked me what was so hard about last session. I told her that the whole "UBER-limbic resonance" (thanks for that term, AG ) experience really had an extremely profound effect on me and that the emotions that it evoked in me lasted non-stop for 4 whole days. She seemed touched by that. We discussed it for a while, and she admitted that for her it was a physical, emotional and even spiritual connection with me. WOW!!! That was an epiphany of sorts for me because she identified what I think my mind was searching for during those 4 days; what it all was that I had felt that was so foreign and unfamiliar, but that I crave and long for in my relationship with her, and in my close relationships in life. Kind of sad that I have only experienced such a deep and profound connection with someone with whom I can't have a real relationship. I think that is why I have had such a hard time this week. It's like Monte said; it's the experience of the let down after a "high", only I haven't ever experienced a high like that in my life. Pretty depressing...and I think she really got to see just how much of a desert my life really is.

We talked about some issues with my family of origin, as I had a 3 hour conversation with my only sister (I'm the oldest) this week about our childhood and some of the neglect and abuse we suffered. We hadn't ever talked about those things in depth and we're in our mid-30s now, so it was high time. Some of the things that my sister brought up were really painful for me to hear and they were her issues, not mine, so it was weird to experience so much pain over my sister's stuff when I struggle feeling anything about my own. I think that is what brought up so much anger for me the past few days, and a lot of the anger I was feeling towards my mom got transferred to my T. So I guess it's true what they say about transference oftentimes being a mom thing! I told my T that I had been angry with her (my T) and she said with enthusiasm, "Well let's talk about the anger!" Have I mentioned that I love this woman? I told her all about the negative reactions I've been getting from her since session one every time my attachment issues are brought up, the reactions I mentioned in my letter last session that she didn't get around to or bother to address for me. She seemed surprised at how much these reactions had affected me and said she wasn't even aware of the fact that she had reacted in the ways I described, although I STILL have a hard time believing that she doesn't remember how cold and withdrawn, almost fearful she was after I initially told her I was attached to her--it was so obvious anyone would have noticed it. I told her I had felt like she viewed me as a freak, and that her actions totally contradicted her words and that I wondered if she had some sort of countertransference thing going on with me. That was maybe a little brazen of me, but I felt I had to say it because that's been a really big issue for me, so much that I have been really held back and unable to be me, to say what I need to say and to truly ask for the help I need because I have feared that if I say or do the wrong thing I'm going to trigger her countertransference issues and she's going to do the "back-off" thing again. Well, she didn't get defensive, but I could see something behind her eyes, like I had maybe hit on something. She said she didn't believe she had any issues with me, but that it was something for her to consider and look at, so I guess it was worth bringing up, although it was pretty scary to put out there. Sometimes I wonder what Ts think about those of us that educate ourselves about psychology and the therapeutic experience and have some knowledge about both sides of the relationship. Anyway, she told me that if she reacts in a way that I view as negative or do something that triggers me, that I can slap her--(she was joking, of course)--that she wants me to let her know. That's going to be the hard part for me, because I'm not good at calling people on stuff (I guess this is being assertive?) when it's about me and my feelings and needs. Kind of scary, but I guess that's part of why I'm in therapy is to learn this stuff so I can get it right in the real world. So that's going to be one of my new challenges.

I'm feeling SO much better tonight. I know my head will keep spinning, as there's always something it will find to worry about. I am really starting to understand that I need to stop letting my mind get the better of me, that like Monte said:

quote:

Unfortunately we are hyper-vigilant when it comes to rejection/abandonment and will sniff it when it's not even there, we are picking up the residual 'scent' from our early experiences of feeling rejected and abandoned

and that I have to be mindful of this about myself and work on bringing myself back to reality. Sometimes I can't do it on my own, and that is where all of you wonderful people come into play for me, and I thank you all so much for picking up the pieces for me and helping me to put back the broken picture of reality that I often am grappling with. It really means a lot to me to have this place to come to, as it's been really hard to have these struggles with my T and feel so alone and disconnected from her and not know where to turn for help in understanding my issues and how to work through them. The encouragement and praise you have all given me has been priceless and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for the ways in which you have selflessly reached out to offer your support to me--someone you don't even know. Thank you from the bottom of my heart! You ladies rock!!!

MTF

This is amazing, MTF. I LOVE how upfront you were about what you experience and what you are scared of. I love that you are putting it all out there. Yes, assertive, and centred and strong and honest. Wonderful stuff. Thanks for sharing it.

Something AG said the other day about starting with the thing you are most scared of stayed with me. It struck me (trigger warning here) that we don't know when life is going to intervene in these relationships. Sometimes I go around thinking I have endless time to get stuff out there or to wait until I'm comfortable. I don't, as I discovered when my T told me she was leaving. What you show here is the kind of courage that is necessary to have a full relationship NOW, not some time in the future - thank you for modeling it for us.

I don't mean to imply that everybody is capable of saying everything at once, or that that's necessary. But we all have a place where we could go, things that we could do that would be stretching ourselves and really working for healing. Love seeing it here.

J

Thanks for the update, MTF! Been thinking about you on & off all day, wondering how it was going. I'm so glad to hear that it turned out well, and that you got what you needed! And I agree with what Jones said, your directness with your T was just awesome. Great job!

SG