I'm really sorry Monte.

I'm so very sorry Monte for what happened to you, I can't begin to imagine how it has affected your life. You have every right to be angry or anything else you feel. I am sorry that I was so insensitive in the face of your pain and caused you more hurt.

Dear Monte,

I'm so, so sorry that happened to you. If you can handle a hug I'm offering one.

The experience of not being able to have what you need from your T at the moment must be both horribly triggering and almost unbearably painful.

I'm glad you could share what's coming up with us, and express a little of the feeling here. We are thinking of you, we care for you and we believe in your healing.

Jones

{{{{{Monte}}}}}

I can't even begin to say how sorry I am that you went through such a horrific experience. The scars that it left must run very deep...and I don't know for sure but I would imagine that the missed opportunities with your T are in some way connected to the pain of losing your father so suddenly and traumatically. We all want to come alongside and support you however we can. Please just know that you really are safe here, very cared about and loved.

SG

Oh ((((((((((Monte))))))))))), I am so terribly sorry, and I hope that my post above did not trigger you to get even more angry and sad. My heart is aching for you and the pain such a horrific trauma has had to have caused you throughout your life. No wonder you hurt so much, and long for a deep connection with your T, because you never got the chance to have that with your dad. I am so sorry...

I had a dad around, but he wasn’t really ‘there’. In fact there are times where I wonder if it would have been less damaging to me had he not been there at all. I have suffered a lot of emotional abuse and neglect that have left me forming attachments and trying to make deep connections with people that cannot give those things to me, and I know all too well the pain that comes from it. My attachment to my T is not the first experience I have had with this awful, hellish, obsessive ‘longing’ for a connection that ultimately cannot be anything like what I want it to be. I don't know how much you've read of my past posts, but I went through a relationship with a neighbor of mine (male) who was my physical therapist. I saw him at church each week (still do), am friends with his wife, and became friends with him through the process of seeing him 2-3 times a week. He worked on my back and neck for 3 months. He worked on my back using a plastic tool with some cocoa butter and on my neck with both the tool and his hands. In hindsight I realize that had it been all manual work, it would have spelled certain disaster, as there were a couple of times he massaged my back with his hands to feel for any remaining fibrosis and I realized that things could go awry (i.e. erotic transference) very easily if I didn’t watch myself.

In general I felt the same sorts of feelings for him that I feel toward my T now. It was a little different because he is a man, but they were not inappropriate--more like wanting him to take care of me, like having a dad to watch over me, protect me, guide me, give me advice, and all the things our Ts do for us, like unconditional positive regard, acceptance, encouragement, etc. However, my feelings and needs ended up getting overwhelmingly intense and powerful because our connection got stronger and stronger due to our frequent interaction with each other and the fact that we shared a lot with each other about ourselves in our conversations. He treated me like a friend rather than a patient (because in all reality there were not firm boundaries with him, and there SHOULD have been). He was the professional, but neglected to see that he needed to treat me like I was a patient and not a neighbor or friend. He had his own needs within our friendship, and they ultimately ended up being traumatic for me and caused him some of his own discomfort. I was as obsessed in my head with him as I am with my T now (same 24/7 preoccupation and same continuous internal dialog going on; same deep attachment issues; same strong desire and need for a deep connection). SCARY.

My T told me that was very unhealthy and self-destructive and she was quite shocked to find out that he had actually had so much a part to play in how much my relationship had traumatized me, since he is a professional and should recognize the potential traumatic effect that his lack of boundaries and the possible transference could have on a patient. Things between him and me got pretty ugly after a while because I ended up almost losing my sense of reality. It was like my needs were so important and so “life-and-death” that when he didn’t meet them in the way I wanted him to, I got really angry and started having “tantrums”. I would email him these nasty emails just firing off my feelings when he would give me some short and meaningless answer to a question I would ask him about something. I wasn’t even “present” while I was doing this stuff, either—it was like my amygdala (emotional part of the brain) would hijack my conscious mind and I was hostage to it until it was done with it’s mission. It was hell. Anyway, the poor guy did his best to help me see that I was being triggered by past traumas in my life and that I needed to dig and find out what was going on. It ended up being a really painful mess that has resulted in A LOT of pain and shame for me. I hurt him, he hurt me, and I had to admit to him that I was emotionally attached to him, and ask him to forgive me. I had to completely back away from him and sever the relationship and can never see him again for physical therapy, or just go up and talk to him as a friend, or anything. He was kind enough to not share any of what happened with his wife, or I'm sure she would have been really angry at me, as understanding these attachments isn't easy. My husband has felt very hurt and confused and thought that I must have had "feelings" for this guy, and it was all very ugly and difficult to explain and work through. Seeing him at church each week still triggers me almost a year later and things are just uncomfortable all around whenever we run into each other. It's been absolutely awful, and I wouldn't wish similar circumstances on even my worst enemy, as the repercussions of all of this have affected my life in many ways. It’s the main issue in my life that finally put me into therapy.

I guess what I’m saying Monte (and please don’t throw any knives and machetes at me ) is that I know it hurts, but in all reality (and I know this is the part that makes you angry to hear), it's true that what you want would end up hurting you even more. I'm not saying it would end up in the same sort of place my situation did, but I have really come to believe that dual relationships in therapy are not a positive thing, even though we think they would be wonderful (and believe me, I STILL have moments where I would LOVE to be my Ts daughter/friend/niece--anything). It may not seem like it, and believe me I know how much you want to have what you missed out on having with your T, but there is a reason that there are boundaries, as much as we hate them. I have been on both sides and as much as I HATE THOSE DAMN BOUNDARIES, I am also so VERY thankful that this time around they are there, even as much as they hurt me as I slam into them every single day of my life lately. I can’t believe I’m actually saying that I’m thankful for the boundaries, because a very large part of me really, REALLY hates them , but another part of me also doesn’t like that my T is soft with her boundaries. Like the hugs she gives me, that she would tell me she felt a spiritual connection with me (that's a huge trigger for me, actually), and the fact that she goes 20 minutes over with me sometimes, as well as a few other things she does that I think are not very healthy for me. Sometimes I wonder if my deep longing for her wouldn’t be so “deep” and painful if she had better boundaries. I don’t know, I guess it’s all speculation. I just want you to know that you have a great T who really cares about you and that is very clear and obvious to all of us here. Please trust that he is doing what is best for you, and I’m sure it’s not easy for him either. Enjoy the connection you have with him now, don't pine for what you can never have, what could have been but can now never be. Enjoy the "now". It's scary, yes; but it's all you can have. You can never go back, so why waste your mind's energy on years ago when you can waste it on tomorrow instead? Remember that your healing and your overall health are the goals, and I am sure that you and your T both want the very best for you, even if you have a hard time seeing that right now through the anger and the tears over what you feel you’ve missed. It's okay to grieve for those things, and grief includes anger, heartache, and much, much more. Again, I'm so very sorry. Please keep talking if you need to get it out--we're here to listen and support you how we can. Take care of yourself.

(((((((Hugs))))))) to you.

MTF

Monte

I have been following this thread, but not contributing to it, and was so so sorry to hear of your terrible experience. I think you are so brave to have posted that experience (whether you decide to remove it or not) and am sure you will receive comfort from the support here, even if the memory feels a little too real and scary all again for a wee while. The fact that you have talked about it to others here will help to validate what happened in your mind and your feelings around it. I am sure your T would be proud of you for doing so.

No wonder you have felt let down by people, there have been so many issues for you to have dealt with from such a tiny age Monte. It must be hard to trust and then not fear abandonment. Your T sounds solid in all this. I hope Tuesday goes ok for you - transparency can be scary but healing too . . .

Short post I am afraid, but big thoughts

starfish

Monte,

That 'transparency' is what will help you be able to finally feel 'held' by your T, even though he can't actually physically hold you while you let all of that crap out of you. I know that might not make sense, and I've only had just the tiniest taste of it, but the feeling is amazing and really indescribable. Just keep working on trusting him and moving toward that connection, as scary and sometimes painful as it is. I'm finding with every visit I have with my T and the more willing I am to be vulnerable and open and honest, the more free I feel and the more internal 'space' I have and I just feel lighter and better. It's hard to explain, but I feel more secure with her and the trust is coming, even though there is still definitely a great deal of trepidation with it all. Keep fighting the good fight, Monte! It will be worth it!!

MTF

STOP, MONTE!! STOP!! Actually, good luck! You'll do great and everything will go well. Just trust in yourself and your T. You just gotta love the pre-session jitters, eh? NOT!!! And I'm right there with you on the planning for next time as soon as I'm done with the session. We're quite the pair, aren't we! Best of luck, and let us know how it goes!!

MTF

Hi Monte

Been thinking of you since I read your post. Just hoping that your session was helpful for you and not as hard as you feared. That you managed to say what you needed too,
Hang in there - it'll be those equally awful post session jitters soon Aaagghh!

starfish

Monte,

quote:

Originally posted by monte:
He spent half an hour looking through stuff and hearing him gush on about it all that time was pretty special. And it felt strange being the ‘masterful’ one…I always feel in awe of him, but he was expressing awe for my talents and it was an odd feeling.

I know MY feelings in this aren't the ones that really matter here, but I am SO PROUD OF YOU!!! You did it!! You are making such amazing strides!! Look at yourself go, lady!! My heart just did this strange swelling thing when I read that part about him gushing on about your artwork. I'm so happy you took that step for yourself. It sounds like it was so worth it. Way to go! And I agree with BB that you have many talents, some of which we see here through your expression of self on the boards, and many that I know we don't. That 'odd feeling' was good for you to feel!

quote:

Then we talked and it was all good. In the last few weeks I have really pushed to be honest with him and talk…instead of email or bringing stuff in for him to read. And the eye contact is going very well and helps me feel connected, but I still feel so shy of him. By giving more he is giving more back, it works. I am being vulnerable and he is being very gentle and respectful with what I am giving. He told me that I bypass feelings and go straight into head mode, but that he wants to know what I’m feeling, not thinking. Also, he said something he has never said outright before and I know he said it purposefully, for the impact. He said quietly, ‘I care about you and what has happened to you.’ My radar (the one installed to pick up ‘I care’ indicators from him) beeped very rapidly then over-heated and blew a fuse.

I'm actually in tears. I feel so happy that you are making so much progress, as I remember that it's only been weeks since you started seeing your T again, and it was December before that, and you were doing most of your expression of feelings through writing. I am just amazed at your progress and the willingness you are showing to work at your relationship with your T and to open up to him and be vulnerable, despite your shyness and the difficulty of doing what you are doing. I know how hard it is because I'm experiencing the same fears myself. And I'm so pleased that your T is responding to you in such a positive way. That always helps, doesn't it?

quote:

So…it’s all good…but I’m not where I want to be yet. I want to talk openly about my feelings toward him and how his presence in my life is triggering so much pain…because the key is in that. I want to feel moved/safe to cry in his presence and experience a moment of comfort with him. He’s said that though his contract frowns upon physical contact, there would be room for a hug or hold from him should I indicate a need. I want that so much. The closer I am feeling the stronger that want gets. He’s talking in this quiet, gentle voice and watching me intently as I struggle through, encouraging, enticing emotional responses from me and I just want to feel his embrace.

I admire your desire to keep at this. To want to move closer to your T and to get to where you feel safe enough to cry shows great courage on your part, and it shows a lot of trust--in your T, but also in yourself. Keep at it, you are doing an awesome job!

quote:

Seeing him again next Tuesday, but then he will be on leave for 4-5 weeks which will be tough now that my emotions are once again starting to ‘come online’. I want to tell him that I will feel panicky by his absence, but don’t think I’ll be able to. Close to reaching the point where I backoff for ages because the transference starts to really hurt. Doesn't take long these days. If I could just say,'Look you're doing all the right things...but this whole experience of being cared about by you, but without fullness and permanence of a real relationship really hurts...and I feel like I'm about ready to runaway again...' He would recieve that so well and ask me, in that gentle deep voice to tell him about it some more...and I would just shut down. Too hard. OOoooohhh...

I hear your struggle. I have a really hard time going for 2 weeks between sessions, so I can imagine 4-5 weeks. I had to go that long in December, and that was when I very first realized my attachment to my T and told her over the phone and she basically kicked me to the curb. You know what you need to do, so I'm not going to lecture you about it , but I will say that if you get it out there you will feel a lot better, scary as it may be. Give him the chance to do something for you. Take the risk. See where it can go. You never know until you try, right? RIGHT?! (That second one was for me Hmmm...that sounds familiar ) Oh, and please, whatever you do, while he's away, do post to us each day about what you're feeling. It has helped me so much when I feel disconnected and sometimes has been the only thing to keep me from spiraling down to a point where I literally feel like I'm losing all hope of coming back from the never ending abyss of despair. We're all here to support you however we can!!

Wow. I just wanted to say again that I think you are doing a FANTASTIC job!!! Keep it up!!!

MTF

Oh Monte I’m so sorry. I really hope that by today you’re less torn apart by this. Going to say the obvious and point out that yeah it probably has a LOT more to do with his going away for such a bloody long time than anything seriously wrong with your interactions - I’d go so far as to guess that maybe you were subconsciously looking for some sort of super-positive input from him that would tide you over the coming weeks and he, in true T fashion has fallen short.

quote:

They do mind-reading in T-school don't they?.

Lol. Sadly that seems to be missing from the curriculum - though I personally believe that they are eminently capable of it and just pretend it’s not possible out of sheer bloody mindedness! Hell how can they NOT see what’s going on when the feelings and needs and wants are blaring out their message in bright flashing neon lights ten feet tall?

I see he will be waiting for your email - that sounds like a good idea, that you tell him how you are feeling about this (even copy him what you’ve written in your post because to me that says everything!) It’s so clear that you were wanting him to give without your having to damn well spell it out for him and if he didn’t pick up on that then definitely he has gone to the bottom of the attunement class. Big D cap for him!

I so hope you are ok.

Monte oooh poor you, it all sounds as if everything went pear shaped for you . How confusing too to have your writing commented on in such a contrasting way to how he has before -I think that inconsistency is hard anyway but harder when it comes from someone we have trusted, especially when he said he has had glimpses of the real you in your writing. No wonder you are hurt, you have every reason to be. I guess it's all amplified by him being on leave - and extended leave too - so you have to leave it all hanging until he comes back or returns your email.

Monte I don't know about the personality thing

quote:

I’m a nice person, but different to him. I feel he is not someone I would ‘click’ with in the outside world…I am very silly, bit rude, arty, effusive, passionate (all within my inner-sanctum…) he doesn’t appear to be any of that and sometimes I ‘feel’ that difference. Should it matter? Mind you my husband is a vastly different person too.

sometimes it's heplful to be vastly different - gain a different perspective etc and as you say you and your husband are vastly different. I really don't know - my T and I are similar in many ways but very different in others; my husband the same. I just wonder if this feels the final straw for you at the moment?

I have no real advice, just wanted to say I am sorry it's so tough for and hope you can get some well deserved support here in his abscence.

starfish

Monte,

I've been deliberating as to whether or not I should add my two cents here, mostly because I don't feel I have anything significant to add, but also because your pain in this feels so close to my own at the moment that it is quite unsettling . However, I do want to let you know that I care about the pain you are suffering right now and that you are not alone in that pain. You have a 'near twin' across the ocean that is sharing in a similar pain and sending cyber hugs your way. I really wish I could add something significant to help you, but I'm in a bad spot myself right now, so just wanted to say I'm thinking of you and hope that you keep posting here and getting the support you need. (((((MONTE)))))

MTF

Monte

You ok? Just wondering how things are for you now? Thoughts and a hug (((monte)))

starfish

Thought I'd jump in here too, as I've thought of you daily and been wondering how you're doing. Please know you're missed around here and I too send hugs your way. (((((Monte)))))

MTF