WOW. Just read about your last session and am feeling soooo happy for you.

quote:

I guess things have been stagnant and numb for long enough and he is willing to move beyond his normal methods and try that bit more to ‘reach’ me.

Yes!! I can really see this in what you are describing. You have needed and wanted this for so long and I'm so, so happy for you that he is doing this!

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He held my picture for about an hour, looking at it and drawing some things from it that I hadn’t picked in it myself and asked lots of questions and heaped praise on what I was doing.

Yes!!! This is wonderful.

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I was aware of breathing more rapidly and a few times my head seemed to swim. Very physiological responses. And who has ever felt emotion in their arms? It is a bizarre sensation. My response wasn’t about the things we were talking about so much as the fact that there we were talking about these things, if that makes sense.

Yes this makes perfect sense to me...it sounds like you were feeling a profound connection with him. I especially could relate to the part about feeling emotions in your arms. Hard to describe...kind of like electrical tingles or surges over and over again. I get that and the other sensations you described when I think about being with my ex-BF. I also feel that way when I think about my ex-T...especially when I would imagine him doing the things for me that your T is doing for you, such as sitting closer, really listening, and getting past the intellectual defenses and engaging with that emotional part of me (it never happened that way exactly, parts of it did here and there, I think he was trying but he was really scared to keep going...but I have a really good imagination of what I wanted). I'm guessing these are physiological signs of attachment.

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He said in his email he would be aiming at appealing to my internal hurting self and blocking my external self in order to get me ‘feeling’ and that was what he did…I could feel him counter that external me every time it stepped up and then feel him engaging mini-me.

Him asking if he could hold you while he prays for you...that would have thrown me, too...seriously that would be a dream come true but I think I would have done exactly what you did. Praying for you with his hand over yours was a good "compromise". And congratulations on getting that hug!

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Oh yeh, he asked three times did I want to go through the book with him and each time I managed to offer a different focus and avoid it. He said that had worked this time, but wouldn’t next time.

Sounds like your hard work is really paying off...those drawings and your emails really reached him and you are getting what you need...kind of scary but wonderful at the same time. I can't wait to hear about where your therapy goes now! Thanks for sharing this with us, monte!

Hugs,
SG

Dragonfly, just read your response...you are just too darn CUTE you know that?? Even exploded like that...but I know what you mean, I felt like "bursting" too when I read monte's post. Very good stuff. What a great reason to explode.

And I like how you described the feeling in the arms, like a "buzz". That's how it is for me too, with the intensity rising and falling over and over again, in waves.

Now let's put you back together, DF!

Hugs,
SG

Hi agent, welcome to the forums! Thanks for sharing that explanation from your therapist, that the sensation in the arms is connected with grief and memory. That totally makes sense to me and fits with my experience...I don't suppose she happened to explain how to work that through so we don't feel that anymore? Does the massaging help to access the grief so it can be worked through? Just wondering...

SG

Monte, I was smiling reading your entire post! Heck, I'm smiling writing this. It's so incredible to see how much your T really heard what you said and knew how to tap into what you needed. I'm so, so happy for you.

Like SG, DF, and Agent (welcome, Agent!), I have also felt emotion in my arms. And yes, it feels like waves...but, well..I find it pretty unsettling, actually. It kind of seems like a motivation of sorts to get away from the feeling that causes it. For instance, in this last session, there was a moment where I felt a really strong sense of caring from my T, and I had such a strong reaction to it (including the sensation in my arms) that I just wanted to back away.

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It is so hard to believe someone would take this journey with me and want to be there. These are horrible, painful and potentially destructive thoughts.

This pulls at my heartstrings, because I know exactly how you feel, and it's horrible. But what's so encouraging is that it sounds like your T isn't going to let you fall prey to those thoughts...he is definitely showing you that he does want to be there with you and support you. Sometimes when I think those negative sorts of thoughts, I try to remember the times in session where feelings from my T felt genuine, and it holds me long enough.

Hey Monte,

Since things are still getting started with my T, there hasn't been any physical closeness, but she offered to come sit with me a few sessions ago and I just about ran out the door (even though I remained stoically in the same spot, staring down at my lap). But the offer meant more than the gesture would have, since I would have felt too uncomfortable for it to be of any help. I think that, in time, I will crave that physical connection, but whether the physical connection actually occurs or not, I feel like the knowledge that it is there or that it could be there has a major impact on how close I am emotionally to my T. I hope that makes some sort of sense.

When is your next session? I don't know your T, but from what I've read, I seriously doubt that he will suddenly back off and retreat from any physical closeness. I can't wait to hear how your next session goes, Monte. I think it's so great that you're finally getting something that you've wanted for so long. I'm sure that contributes to the disbelief, too. Hang in there...I have a feeling that he'll come through for you.

quote:

Originally posted by monte:


To anyone reading this...is touch/nearness an important aspect of connection for you? I don't mean the nice, warm, comforting feeling that might come from a Ts touch (which is still of huge value), I mean in terms of connecting with emotion within. I am presuming that it bypasses my external self and goes straight to internal me, who holds all the emotion...I dunno.

Monte

Oh Monte! I'm so pleased that your session went so well. What a beautiful description you gave.

Yes, I have definitely connected more to the emotion when T is near me physically. There have been times where I was right on the edge of emotion and just couldn't let it go, but as soon as T sits next to me then it is all over. I usually start to cry. The little parts of me always cry while she holds them. So, it is more than just the feeling of comforting and safety, it makes it safe to release emotion that wasn't safe in the past.

Your last paragrah about discouraging thoughts reminds me of the feeling that I had after a recent session where my T held a child part of mine. It felt so right and so safe and then the doubt crept in. It was a feeling of I don't deserve her caring, surely she had made a mistake and surely she would take it back the very next time I see her. For me it was just so foreign to have my needs met and I started to figure that she had some sort of motivation that wasn't pure. We talked about it and she assured me that it was normal that I was feeling that way. We have since had many sessions where she sat with me, held me or otherwise met my need for comforting and closeness and I no longer have those feelings afterward. I think it just takes some time to get used to.

Hello Monte!

Sorry I've been missing for a few days. I read your post Saturday but had SO much to do that day I couldn't respond properly so I decided to wait, and yesterday was Father's Day here in the U.S., so it was another crazy busy day. I've wanted so much to reply, so now it's first thing in the morning here and I'm getting to you first thing!

I'm so very happy for you that your session went so well! I can't tell you the feelings that went through me as I read your post. I nearly bawled as I sat here with a huge smile on my face and chills running through me. You have a fantastic way of describing things so I felt like I was right there in the room with you. I'm so glad that you were able to keep yourself from doing the whole scenario-izing bit that week, and that it helped you so much. It is something I desperately need to work on myself as I know that is something that gets in my way and lets me down EVERY time.

That's cool that you have found something (the props idea) that works so well for you. Your T's response to your dad's stuff was great. I love that he pulled his chair right up to you and leaned forward on his elbows. THAT is what my T does when she wants to connect with me, and it always works. That proximity things does the trick, but yes--it makes eye contact a bit harder.

quote:

I could sense him trying to hook me emotionally and it was sort of happening...a bit like a wire shorting in and out. Having him sit so near and hold this drawing of my heart’s contents and talk about it quietly and purposefully to that ‘other’ part of me was scary stuff, but I went with it and I didn’t shut down. Although I didn’t have any obvious emotional flood, I was impacted by what he was doing and felt a lot of struggle in my gut. No, not wind! More upper digestive tract...solar plexus. Just that place where emotion seems to first present itself and I was aware of breathing more rapidly and a few times my head seemed to swim. Very physiological responses. And who has ever felt emotion in their arms? It is a bizarre sensation. My response wasn’t about the things we were talking about so much as the fact that there we were talking about these things, if that makes sense. I was aware of him working hard to maintain my presence and aware of his voice being more gentle, but more persistent…and then him leaning toward me and watching me from so closely. It was intense sort of stuff...for me...smiling Ice Queen that I am. I sort of felt a bit seized by it all, but it felt safe.

I knew you two could do it!! I love your description of how you felt. The solar plexus is exactly where I feel it, too. And I too feel emotion in my arms. I'm glad that as intense as it was, you were able to feel safe. Your T sounds great, and I know you're worried about him going back to the way things were before, but I think he'll keep at this because Ts sense things. We evoke things in them that we are unable to express ourselves, things we are unconscious of ourselves. I'm sure he 'gets' that you are struggling with this but that it is what you want, scary as it may be. It reminded me some of that session with my T where I read her my letter and she teared up on me and I felt extremely connected to her emotionally. She had moved her chair right up to me at the couch, had hugged me, held my hands in hers, and talked quietly to me as she tried to repair our relationship. I miss that connection terribly, as it helps me so much to be emotionally present when she is physically close to me rather than in her usual position a couple of feet away. If she scoots her chair right up to me the eye contact just gets to me so much more than it does otherwise. Something about the close proximity, and she knows this and uses it 'wisely', I guess. If she really used it wisely, she'd be closer more often.

That's cool that your T prays with you, but wow, I would have freaked if my T asked me if she could hold me while she prayed. And I'm used to hugs and enjoy them! I'm sure that was really a shocker for you. I like that you were good with him putting his hand on yours. And you got a hug!!! I'm so happy that you are getting somewhere finally. It makes my heart so happy for you, Monte. Gee, now the tears are coming. I know how much you have wanted this and I am so glad that your T finally 'heard' you and is working on helping you move forward so you can heal. I believe like Kashley that he'll keep at it. He'll continue to work on hooking you! Let him!! I know you will, but I just had to throw that bossy part in there for good measure!

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I can’t believe how the combination of physical contact and the sharing of these pictures has opened things up. It feels real now, he feels real and seems very much in control of proceedings and I feel a level of trust and security with him I have never experienced before. It just needed the right nudges in the right direction.

YAY!!! This really makes my heart sing. I can hear the peace you have in this paragraph. Don't doubt, dear Monte! Keep the positive feelings in your heart and let them carry you to your next session. Believe things can keep going and that you can heal. I think you've found a key to a really big and important door, and there's so much to be discovered there. I'm sure this is the beginning to a great journey for you. Congratulations!

(((((Monte)))))

MTF

Well said, BB!!

Hi Monte,

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And about bloody time too!!!Sorry if I sounded impatient for your response...but I was!!! You are my T-twin remember

I'm sorry. I do know how it feels to wait for my T-twin's response. It doesn't help that our time zone's are so different, but I'm sorry it took me a couple of days. Next time I'll at least let you know that a response is coming but that it may take a bit.

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Physical closeness just breaks down walls...for me anyway - and for you too by the sound of it. I kind of feel foolish in front of myself for thinking it's such a big deal...but it is.

I know what you mean about feeling foolish for thinking it's a big deal. I think you were so brave to even tell your T you needed that physical proximity and awesome that he met you on it. I don't have the guts to tell my T that sort of stuff because I feel like she just doesn't 'do' that sort of stuff unless she feels like it's needed and wants to do it. Who knows. Once we get into the EMDR (which frankly scares the heck out of me), I will have to communicate my needs to her if she doesn't move in on her own. I'm hoping she will, because I'm such a pansy!

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Originally posted in reply to Dragonfly: But I also can see his short term aim is to poke and prod until I break and the thought of doing that in his presence is almost unthinkable, but it feels like a necessary part of the journey. Trouble is, I only ever cry in my husbands presence...and that is only in the dark. Crying is a fearful thing for me. My T understands my fear of what that might be like and how crucial it is that he be available in a physical way and I'm guessing that's why he offered himself as he did, just to get me comfortable with that.

Ugh. The dreaded crying. That will be a breakthrough beyond breakthroughs for you, eh? So good that your T is sensitive to this and knows how crucial it is for you to get there and for him to be there when you do. I know it was so uncomfortable for me to cry in front of my T at first. I didn't have a hard time with the tears coming, just felt so stupid because she didn't say or do anything to help me feel like it was okay to cry in front of her and I too hate crying in front of anyone but my husband, and even then I hate crying in front of him too. It was hard for quite a while, but now I can cry with her while I'm talking and it doesn't really faze me, so take courage that your T is already leaps and bounds ahead of the game and will be a safe place for this to happen when it does. You are making great strides and I'm sure it won't be long, Monte. That's a good thing, by the way!

Don't let that discouragement get to you. Keep the positive feelings flowing! I'm glad you've got another session coming up Thursday. It helps to go weekly, for sure. I don't see my T until July 16th. She gets booked up sometimes for a whole month and then I have to wait. She said she'd try to get me in on a cancellation, but she called yesterday to check on me to see how I am doing after last week's couples session. She said to call her if I needed to get in for a session, so I think she forgot to put me on her list. I know I can call, but like I said, I'm a pansy. I will see how I do, but if she doesn't call me next week I may see if she can get me in. A whole month is too long.

I hope your session goes at least as well as the last, if not better! I'll be thinking of you and sending positive vibes your way!! So happy for you, T-twin!!

(((Monte)))

MTF

Thanks for the welcomes, Strummergirl and Kashley! Y'all are so friendly.

quote:

Originally posted by Strummergirl:
Does the massaging help to access the grief so it can be worked through? Just wondering...

From what I understand (not from the massage therapist, but from someone I know who is seriously into T'ai Chi), we "hold emotions" in our bodies - for example, I'm sure we've all felt stress in our shoulders. I think that massage does help release whatever emotions we've been holding onto. From my own experience, since that first arm massage that triggered a lot of grief, I've had one other arm massage. It felt wonderful and definitely brought up some emotions, but not grief. So perhaps the first massage released some of that for me.

And Monte, I just wanted to echo that it sounds like your T's actions came from a desire to connect with you in a way that meets your needs, which is definitely something that matters to him.

I have done several different types of body work and they have all brought up different things for me. I get regular massage therapy and it seems to just relieve general tension and also helps me get used to safe touch with no strings attached.

I've done Reiki healing touch and that has brought up a great deal of grief. It also was able to get me unblocked when I was totally numb and couldn't access any feelings.

I've also done acupuncture. That brought up a TON of stored sadness, pain and grief. In fact, I have backed off of it because it seemed to be bringing things up faster than I could handle them.

quote:

Then a bit of chit chat as I readied myself to leave and then he asked me as I stood up could he give me a brief hug before I go. Umm…that was an awkward moment but I said ok and…got a hug. Very brief moment on my part, I made sure of that, but I got it.

Hi Monte,
I realize the conversation has moved on, but I just wanted to tell you how happy I was to read this. I remember how painful it was for you when you thought that you had passed up on a hug forever and I think it's wonderful you were finally able to experience this. And even better that it provided such a positive effect.

Hi Agent,
Just wanted to say welcome to the forums! I haven't been around lately or I would have said hi earlier!

AG

Thanks, Attachment Girl! Everyone's making me feel really welcome. I read your Vacation post - I'm sorry for what you've been through lately and I'm glad you're feeling better now!

Monte I haven't posted anything in reply to you for what seems like ages - though I read all your posts. Just wanted to chime in here with a cheer and smile for what's been going on for you with your T. Yeah it sounds like it's all set and primed for you to really start getting on with the big stuff - scary but must be a really good feeling knowing it's all in place, at last!

And as for that one size fits all code of conduct, can I add my raspberry as well? Good on you (and good on your T) for being prepared to go beyond the 'rules'. Hugs to you Monte.

LL

p.s. Agent, I'd like to say welcome too!

Monte,

quote:

Didn't mean to sound demanding...my 'impatience' was mostly in good fun

Oh, I know. I could 'hear' it. I just had a bit of guilt going on for waiting for two days when I had had such an emotional response to your post and then didn't get around to responding to it for a while. I didn't mean to leave you wondering where I was. I do know you well enough by now though to know that you weren't being "demanding" with me.

quote:

The thought of it makes me sick with fear. I think my T is pushing for some sort of expulsion of emotion in his presence, because that's what needs to take place. I feel somewhat stunned by his willingness to be available to 'catch me' in such a physical capacity...that would be such a precious thing. And interesting after so many years of hovering around such things. So I don't fear how he will - or won't - respond, I just fear and dread the moment in itself.

So sorry you're so frightened of the emotions coming out. I can understand that somewhat. I am terrified of EMDR for fear of crying over things I think my T will see as insignificant (and that I frankly see as insignificant but that make me cry anyway!). I'm actually terrified of even opening up to her about what each specific 'trauma' is, because I'm afraid she'll laugh at me for having put some of them on my list. I know she won't of course, but the fear is still very real. Fear is such a terrible thing to overcome isn't it? Too bad there's not some magic pill, or something easy like that to help us get over our fears and push through so we can heal our wounds and get through to the other side. I know the things that are worth the most in life take hard work, and oftentimes pain, and a great deal of strength to overcome sometimes, so that helps me to realize that getting past my fears in therapy is just another hurdle in life that I--and you too--have to work on making it over. We can do it, Monte! I know you can do this. I can't tell you how much I look forward to the post when you tell us that you did it--that you broke through the fear and actually let the emotions go. Scary, yes--but the relief will be so worth it. It will open up so much for you, as I know you're aware. And of course there will be setbacks, and it won't always go as planned or desired, but the times I've bawled my eyes out have been so cathartic and healing that I almost wish (notice I said almost) I could cry like that every time. Now I am so numb on my medication that I rarely cry, so I kind of miss that. Can't believe I'm saying that, but it's true.

Anyway, just wanting to encourage you. I know it feels scary, but it's not that bad. And your T is SO THERE for you! That's what makes me so happy for you. I wish my T were like that. She is in her own way, but nothing even close to how your T was last session. I hope he keeps it up and that it works its magic on you! Good luck tomorrow!!!!

(((Monte)))

MTF