Hi everyone,

Hope you are enjoying (or surviving) the holidays.

I want to say I am sorry if I said anything to upset anyone here in the past.

Sometimes it's a mismatch, where I respond to people in thinking mode, when perhaps they are in emotional mode and probably aren't in a place to be receptive to problem-solving stuff. I try to be more careful about that now since I recognized I do this. Some people have told me that this is helpful to them. I make mistakes sometimes, though, and respond to people who don't find this helpful or don't like my style of communicating.

Generally, I thought many people were more receptive to problem-solving here, considering the name of the forum is "Making Counseling Effective Forum". Because people talked about concepts and theories here more than at other places, I thought I'd fit in here better talking about these things in a candid manner.

I think there are other reasons too. Being in therapy with an analyst, everything is accepted and explored. Both the good and bad parts of me and people in general. So if my therapist points out a pattern in me, for example, "you want to be rescued", I don't see it as a negative thing, but rather, something I may have not thought about and might want to consider exploring. Same goes with anger, envy...any of the feelings that are in the normal range of normal human emotions. And maybe, for some, it's different hearing it from a therapist than an online friend. For me, I think these things are important to talk about, because it's really difficult to get to the bottom of things if only 'good' patterns enter the realm of thought. It's encouraging to see people talk more about these feelings here... I've been seeing more of that lately, and it is more comfortable for me being here now, seeing people discuss all of the emotions that are normal to feel rather than only some of them that sound more positive. It normalizes trauma personality traits of trauma survivors, and it's stuff I can relate too. These emotions serve a purpose too.

The one thing I've had continous trouble with, and that triggers me immensely, is pretending like the bad doesn't exist and denial. It's because I grew up in an environment like that. My mother 'presented' reality differently to family, neighbors....only letting people see the 'good'.

Relatives, to this day, tell my Mom how much of a good mother she was, and how her bad children ruined her life. It perpetuates the reality distortion, which has been traumatizing to me as a whole. I can't even go to a family gathering for the holidays because I am too triggered that people actually believe her distorted reality. No one here is like my mother. Of course she would never end up in therapy because she can't see that anything is wrong with her. I struggled with this for so long, suggesting she get help for one, but also facing the reality that she is not going to change her perception of things. I gave up-which is a good thing as now I think it would be dangerous if my mother's got in touch with her true emotions at her age.

But it does relate to my behavior, where I want people to see things that they might not see, because perhaps they, too, will change. It's a tough situation for me, and I try to deal with it the best I can in social settings.

Denial and splitting are coping mechanisms that trauma survivors often have. It doesn't make anyone 'less than', and addressing these, in the safety of therapy, is part of the process. It is often addressed subtley. If I see it here, sometimes I ignore it; other times I try to gently point out the possibility. Other times, I think I do this in a not-so-helpful way. Maybe my judgement is impaired.

So I am just having a hard time communicating with people in a way that is helpful to them. I am sorry if I hurt anyone.

You all are really good people, and you all deserve a happy, fulfilling life. I wish you all happy holidays and a peaceful new year.

I'm new here, but I just want to say...

I'm a problem solver, too. I struggle to remember that others usually want what I want - to be heard, supported, and not judged. I don't want others to fix my problems, I want their support while I fix them myself. That helps me to remember that others don't want me to fix their problems, they just want my support while they figure it out on their own.

My mother also presented reality wrongly. To this day she's "golden" and my siblings and I are "black" - she did her best, but we messed up her life.

Based on what you said, it seems to me that you are realizing some of your own patterns as they relate to the forum. You're taking your responsibility and making an effort to be more aware of others' needs, and trying to respect those needs. I think that's wonderful!

I hope your holidays are wonderful and that you know and believe in your heart that you also deserve happiness.

TR

thanks, Tightrope, that was good insight.

Actually, I've been aware of this for over a year now. I just detect patterns, that's natural for me. Some of it is hypervigilence. It's just that no one has ever told me that something I said was hurtful. So yes, I am trying to be more aware of others' needs. It helps, though, when people are assertive, for sure.

Some people do want answers to questions and outside opinions though, rather than just sympathy. My therapist, for one, does not tell me 'what I want to hear'. Some people just want to get closer to the truth. It all depends on the person. And I clearly lack judgment there-guilty as charged.

Sorry to hear about your mother. Ironically, my mother's children all moved out before we were adults/18. She never caused any of her own demise-it was always someone else's fault. She had no free will and did not contribute to her own problems. Just a victim of circumstances and people.

Sympathy and support are not the same thing.

Sympathy can be supporting, but so can brainstorming ideas, and so can hugging and so can doing nothing but listening. Supporting someone isn't about telling them what they want to hear, it's about giving them a tool to feel as ok as they can in that moment. You're right, some people DO want to solve the problem, they would be best supported with advice, brain storming, information etc. Some people just want to vent and need someone to say "I hear you", and others just want to grieve and know they aren't alone - a hug or a "that must be really hard to go through" go a long way with that.

Without facial expression and body language I suck at this sort of thing online, too. I kinda suck at it anyways, I tend to misread facial expression and body language, but at least the people who know me know my intent is good so if I don't give them exactly what they need they see I'm trying and they see they are loved.

I think you're kinda awesome to put all of that out there and want to make yourself more helpful to the community

xoxo,

I think you have a good understanding of the way your pattern of interacting isn't always a good fit for people on the forum. I think also that we all cycle through different states and therefore sometimes I am not ready for problem solving but first want validation and support. One of the nice things about the forum is that I can (usually if no one deletes) go back and read someone's comments later when I'm in a different frame of mind.

I just want you to know that I always read with interest your comments and I hope that you comment on my threads because you have such a different viewpoint than I do and my T doesn't talk about the theory of therapy. I also want to add that I have a mother with a very similar attitude. I used to tell people that my mother lives in her own reality to such an extent that she could argue the sky is pink one day and green the next with no awareness that she had changed her mind. She is always right and she attacks anything or anyone who challenges her reality. She also only acknowledges good experiences and emotions. It is very difficult to grow up in an environment which continually invalidated reality and punished you anytime you tried to express a different view.

I hope you have a good holiday season.

xoxo,
I think you have a good understanding of stuff and when you commented on one of my first posts it helped me to start looking at things differently and helped me to face myself a bit...the word "fixation" but I did start mine as wanting opinions. I like to hear about the concepts and theories because I just want to understand and I also like how people will go thru their thinking patterns because sometimes they are like me and other times people have a grasp and a way that makes sense that I wish I could automatically think and process without reading too much into a "look" or such and take things at face value...getting mor e aware of that. I probably should start reading more books because I really want to understand more in the way that you seem to. You're right about only good things...I have wanted to share more but find myself putting a positive spin on my stuff "on here" when I share which isn't much. I like honesty the most because for me it helps to "face it." There is all different types which I believe is what makes us look outside ourselves and learn from others. Personally I enjoy and seek out reading your posts. My therapy is only between my therapist and myself...have not told my family for reasons so it is really helpful to look on here and read and feel "normalized" that others actually think like me because I seriously have never heard anyone really verbalize it like it is done on this forum. Everyone is in a different place but just want you to know that you are a big help...in my opinion.

Personally, like you very much, and I understand how it is, to want to be candid, and how hard that can be, juggling with being diplomatic...both are being loving, whether accepted as such, understood in that way- or not.

hugs,

BB

Hey xoxo,

I don't think we've done much talking on here, but the times we have interacted, I've never found your comments to be anything other than interesting and insightful. . . and I don't think that's because I have a particularly thick skin, because I don't. I guess I can just tell the difference between analyzing and criticizing, and I think you do a lot of the former, and really none of the latter that I have noticed.

Happy Holidays!

xoxo - I have never been offended by your style of interacting. Sometimes I am in a place to consider things from a cognitive perspective and other times I have to come back at a better time to do so. But, consider anyone's effort at support, whether it is pointing out another side of things or just validating the feelings going on, to be a very generous gift of their time and effort to connect with me. When something isn't what I need in the moment, I still read it and make a mental note to go back later to really take it in. So, if it has ever happened that you offered an analytical perspective when I wasn't in the right space to process it, I would have just come back to it later when I had the resources to do so and participate (whether I agree or disagree with the analysis in question). I tend to self-analyze constantly, so in general, I find myself more in need of encouragement, validation and normalization from the outside. I use intellectualization to invalidate emotional response, so if I sometimes am not very responsive to that style, it is probably because I'm trying not to over-encourage that as it interferes with processing emotions by experiencing them (something I am woefully inexperienced at). Anyway, hope you don't worry too much about it. Hopefully, anyone whose feelings are hurt will inform you directly in a thread or via PM, so it can be resolved.

hi xoxo,
i am definetely NOT at all one you should say sorry to, i have always found your posts helpful and i always appreciate a different point of view. and the search for the truth - i think we all need that (even when we don't want to face it).
i think that you are a very caring person even though you might not come across like that in an obvious sort of way.

happy holidays to you too, and i hope to keep seeing you around!
hugs,
puppet

xoxo, I just wanted to say how much I've loved all your responses to me. I thought they were really insightful and made me think a lot. That's something I've really appreciated!

I enjoy the diversity of responses that I get from the forums. It allows me to gain different perspectives, especially since I tend to have some major black and white thinking. I like running things by a bunch of you and then I usually can either validate my own feelings, or learn to view things differently. SO, I hope nobody will change ---every opinion is valued!

((((Tightrope, Incognito, Hopeful, Deepfried, Echoes, BB, HIC, Yaku, Puppet, Alpaca, Unbroken, FOT))))

You are some of the coolest people I've ever known! I gotta agree that diversity is a huge asset. I love group dynamics, and team concepts. The more diverse, the better, imo.

Seems like, though, sometimes, I should find another part-time 'hobby' than this...one that doesn't involve the internet! But yeah, if we expect our therapist to convey their faults to us, maybe we should expect the same from ourselves? Not everyone, but those who are able to.

Thanks for sharing mother issues, too. I'm so busy right now with getting ready to host the holiday, and I want my mother and I to enjoy each others' company for once. She is acting so crazy now. As long as she doesn't harp on me about evidence I bought bottled water, or a brand of toilet paper that is a little bit too soft, etc, I think I'll be ok (we are supposed to punish ourselves and not enjoy 'luxuries'). I was thinking of checking everything around the house first to destroy any evidence of suspected luxuries, but I changed my mind. She asked what to bring, my sister told her-a bottle of wine. She said that would be too expensive (luxurious), so she'll make a dip. I don't want anything from her, but I can find decent wine for $7 a bottle....she recently yelled at my sister's friend (2nd time she met her) for having a pizza delivered. She actually got mad at her because the girl is in college and should not spend money!! it's crazy!!

Sorry, sidetracked. Rant. So much to do. Talk to you all soon or next year. Thanks so much for all the feedback and opinions.

Happy holidays! Crazy holidays for some of us!..hangin in there...

xoxo,

Very late to this thread. Good luck with the holidays and with your mother. I can totally relate to the mother issues. Hope she behaves!

Maybe someday you'll give us a primer on Object Relations. I know I would really like that. I have a very hard time understanding it. Sometimes I think I get it and then *poof* - just like that, it's gone. I would also like to hear more about your journey in therapy. You don't share too much about what's going on for you. Of course, only if you want to share.

In the meantime, just keep on being yourself. You're working hard and you will get there, even if you have to leave the rest of us in the dust or well, at least me. Because I'm trucking along at a slow pace. But I'll get there too.

I don't know anything about object relations because my T doesn't do that with me. It used to really bother me because it was what I was expecting from therapy. But he does do a lot of relationship skill building and assertiveness stuff wtih me. (stage 1 of trauma treatment.)

I finally decided that I would change just by virtue of him whacking through my defenses, learning when old thought patterns get triggered and also by developing a trusting relationship with him. I've learned so much about myself just trying to feel close to him and less guarded. I've become more comfortable talking to him and see that this transfers to the outside world. It doesn't unnerve me like it used to when someone IRL doesn't understand me right away. I used to think I had three heads. Now, if someone doesn't get me right away, I'm able to calm myself down and explain what I was talking about. I was also very suggestible but I'm getting better at not being so suggestible. I still struggle with it and it's a hard one for me but I am getting stronger. And I'm looking forward to more positive changes. I'm sure you are too.

It's only my opinion, but I think everyone here on the OF is very into growing. It just that may be people have different approaches. I think a lot about brain stuff, mentalizing, putting space between me and my emotions, establishing new, healthier ways of relating to other people. My T doesn't focus too much (at least not yet) at understanding the old, unhealthy ways of relating. Sometimes, it's just a matter of a circle and a rectangle trying to have a conversation. They aren't going to understand each other. Neither one is right and neither one is wrong. They just are. And as my father used to say, that's what makes the world so interesing. Because if we were all the same, it would be a very boring world.


xoxo

Love,

Liese

HI liese,

Thanks for writing, that was sweet.

I think i've been hypomanic, need to calm down a bit....so about Object Relations:

I always refer people to this site, cause it explains Object Relations in a nutshell:

http://www.objectrelations.org/

But also because it talks about applying the concepts in therapy, though briefly.

Psychodynamic therapy is actually a mix of object relations, that includes attachment theory, but also ego and self psychology, plus the older stuff. Once you get the concepts of all that stuff, it's more clear how it's applied in therapy. It explains why therapists do what they do and don't do what they don't do. My therapist doesn't use theories anymore, he uses his experience moreso.

All the theories recycle, different ways to explain the same concepts of human nature. Object relations theory is really intense, in depth descriptions of psychological concepts more than anything. It's probably boring to read the clinic stuff for many people.

Talk to you all later