Sorting through some difficult emotions with T. He thinks I want a romantic relationship with him. Let me tell you, I have done my fair share of admiring him from where I sit. But I do not have fantasies about us being together in a romantic way. I had asked for a permanent second appointment on Thursdays and this past Monday was offered an every other weekly spot at 4:30. Basically an impossible time for me. I would have to do so much juggling and the stress would be unbelievable. I took it at first because I was so happy he had something. But then I went home and said, "ya know, it's really not going to work for me. I'll have to take my chances."

So, I called his office on Tuesday. Left a message to that effect. Call me if you get an opening on Thursday. They usually call the day before with cancellations. Yesterday, then, would have been the day they would have called. I did call his secretary in the morning to make sure she got my message and to ask if anything had come available yet. She said no.

Yesterday was a bad day for me, waiting for his office to call. I went through so many emotions from fear to anger and basically decided I had to get on with my life. I had to make plans for today because it felt like the healthiest thing to do. I'm so tired of what I do to myself. It's excruciating. I've done everything I can to get an appointment. I can't take an appointment that doesn't work. It's in T's ballpark now. It's his responsibility to get me an appointment or not. We've talked about how hard it is for me to make it through the week only seeing him once. He knows I'm not functioning well. It's in his ballpark. I've screamed and yelled and done everything I can.

So, what I've been trying to figure out is, do I really need to see him twice a week? And why? What is he giving me? I thought it would be a good discussion to have with him and we could figure it out together.

Anyway, so this morning, his secretary leaves a message, do I want to come in at 12:45? Now to my knowledge, he does not have 12:45 appointments. I have the 12 on Mondays. 12:45 is his lunch. I have never ever ever been offered a 12:45 appointment. When I got her message, that was the first thing I thought, Oh gosh, that's his lunch. I thought, well I shouldn't worry about that. I need to think about what I need. I need to see him and if it's his lunch, he'll have to deal with the fact that he gave it up. Then I thought, oh, he'll be angry with me for making him give up his lunch. And, I countered myself with, I can't worry about that. It's his problem. If he made the offer, I can't worry about his emotions. But then I realized that I would worry too much about it when what I really want to do is sort through all these other emotions and this is a complete distraction.

A while back, I had the feeling that he had the 2:15 slot open on Thursdays. I discussed with T the fact that his secretary always made crazy excuses every time she offered me the 2:15, which was adding to my paranoia. He agreed that she shouldn't need to make excuses as to why a slot is open. Now I don't know if that slot is open or not anymore but my next paranoid thought was, oh, the 2:15 is still open but he doesn't want to offer it to me because then I will know that it's still open and he didn't offer it to me. So, he's not giving up his lunch. He's switching the two appointments around.

Then I decided that this was all way too overwhelming and again, distracting from what I really want to focus on and I'm not feeling emotionally capable of dealing with all of this input right now.

So I decided to pass on the 12:45 appointment. Then I thought, ahhhh, he's testing me to see if I will take it. It's his lunch and he knows I know it's his lunch because I'm always there at 12:00. He wants to see if I think I'm special. There is a disorder where people want to feel special. I forget which one. So then, I think, oh god, I really have to turn this appointment down, because I don't want to give the wrong appearance of needing to feel special when I don't think that's it at all.

And then I go back to, I should just take it if I want to see him today. But all this crap is just too overwhelming for me to sort out so I think I'm going to pass. I need to focus on whether or not I really need to see him twice a week, if I do need to see him twice a week, if he can give me a permanent appointment or not, and if not, I guess I have to find a new therapist, right????

Oh for christs sake, will someone please turn this brain off????

Liese - I think if he offered an appointment, regardless if it's his lunch or not, if you think you need it take it. I wouldn't worry about his lunch - he's a grown man and knows when he can eat.

As for your brain, I know the feeling. Sorry I can't help much. My answer is to just blow it off my shoulders and I'm sure you don't want to do that.

Liese,
Oh you poor poor thing!! I wish I could turn it off for you. I agree with smiley that if you need the appointment, take it. I think it is important to try to trust your T to manage his own boundaries and trust that he will not offer something he will be resentful about later. I also think it would be unethical for him to have the sneaky motives that you described in your post, so as hard at is it, I think it makes sense to try to trust him.
Having said that though.....I know how how hard it can feel when the thoughts won't stop!! It can really send me into a state - that is for sure. Do you think you could talk to him about your worries around the Thursday appt? He may put your fears to rest and give you some much needed relief.

I hope you are able to take care of yourself and do what you need for you.

Oh gosh guys, I really think it was a trick!!!

I wasn't going to respond to the call but I finally decided to call and say, oh gosh, I didn't hear from you last night so I made plans.

Make it sound like I'm busy. Like I have a life. Like a real person.

I call the secretary and say, what I was going to say. And she says, Oh sorry Liese, sometimes we don't get the cancellations until the morning. And I say, oh isn't it his lunch? And she says, Oh no, babe, he's going to take his lunch at 1:30. Let's see. I have a 1:30 open, a 2:15 open, a 3:45. So I'm like, oh, no thanks, I'm good.

See, he was trying to see if I wanted to feel special, I think. Who the hells knows. Who the hell cares anymore. I just hate feeling jerked around.

I can get really wrapped up in assuming all these strange manipulations on my T's part. The times I have brought it up, he emphatically denies it and I believe him...for a time.

I don't think he was trying to play some sort of trick on you or use this as a diagnostic tool. I try to tell myself that a busy T does not have enough time and energy to be playing with all their clients' minds that way. I agree that if you need a second appointment, you should take it. I am struggling with the same dilemma with T offering me phone calls two Fridays in a row. And, yes, I get paranoid thoughts that he is performing some sort of test, like seeing if I am purposefully freaking out during the week in order to GET him to offer a phone call...which I am not, because I have been freaking out for months and he has only offered the past two weeks. Yet, I still think he somehow is playing this illogical game with me. So, I really understand how hard it is to be honest about this stuff. And, I can't blame you...it is unlikely there were so many last minute cancellations, so your choices are that he and his secretary were unprofessional by not getting back to you about his availability earlier, he was waiting to hear back from other clients who were on his "waiting list" for an appointment first or he is game playing. I think you should call back and see if one of those later slots is still open. It is pretty likely that the most logical scenario (either he had an off day and forgot to call or had other clients who were in line first) is the true one. But, you have a real opportunity here to:
1. Find out the actual truth, which I'm sure he will tell you, which will lessen the power of these projections in the future...but they will still be there and sometimes still feel very real (but maybe you will have a message in the back of your head countering that feeling).
2. Work with T to see what is underneath your assumptions that he is playing games with you. It might be something in your past or something that he does or a combination of both. The past is good material for therapy. And if he's doing something that's triggering you, he should know so he can be at least aware when it may be happening, perhaps even careful to watch for misperceptions.

Thanks Smiley, Seablue and Janedoe,

I'm really thinking he was testing me to see what my intentions were as far as wanting to come twice a week. Since I am a bit split off from my emotions, I can in all honesty go in there and say to him, no I don't want a romantic relationship with you and maybe sincerely mean it but because of my little, ummm, problem, I might not be telling the whole truth.

On the other hand, since I saw him on Monday, I've been working really hard to figure out if there is a part of me that does want that and he doesn't know that because I haven't seen him since then.

I don't think his secretary is ditsy. I think she does what he says. She sounded really stressed when I called yesterday morning. Like, "oh god, I have to lie to you again? I can't take this." I don't know if you remember but I gave her a scarf over Christmas and she looked really really guilty and said, I'm sorry for what I do to you.

He definitely plays with his schedule. I know he does. It's a fact. Now are you going to help me or not????

I'd tell him it's not ok with you for him to being duplicitious with his schedule. Then he can either get it straight, his schedule and what he is telling you.

I know when I want more from my T than she can give, I sometimes get angry and frustrated and start thinking she is just messing with me. Maybe that is what is going on for you with this.

Maybe his thinking you have intentions you are not saying or "admitting" (like romantic ones when you don't feel that is going on or are not sure - but sounds like you are not saying outright and he is just interpreting even though you are not saying) - his interpreting into things that you are not saying (and probably don't even have), is leading you to respond by thinking he is having intentions he is not saying too about the relationship...

maybe? I dunno... just some random thoughts... I could be totally off the mark and if so, pls just ignore.

hang in there,
~ jane

Thanks Yaku and Janedoe,

We just talked on Monday about my romantic intentions. He wanted to know if I was having fantasies about having a romantic relationship with him. I told him that I stay very much on top of myself. That I read a lot about transference and hash stuff out with you guys. and, so even though he and I haven't talked about it. For christs sake, I'm in therapy to get better. I know my romantic life SUCKS the big one. Maybe I want more. But I do think that I really accept the limitations of my relationship with T. He is attractive and caring. I get all that. But I'm dealing with it.

Anyway, so that's what I told him on Monday.

I'm 99.9% sure this was a test. Never, never, never has a 12:45 been available. There would be no reason to switch the appointments around unless it was a test.

But that's okay. Maybe he needed to test me for his own peace of mind. Maybe he needed to know if I'm really being honest with him.

I'm also really starting to trust my instincts re: his secretary. I know now that she definitely has had guilt in her interactions with me. I heard it in her voice yesterday morning when I called. I'm trusting my instincts. They are there for a reason.

Oh well. I just want to go have a life. Maybe I'll go shopping. Why worry about all this stuff????

Thanks for hashing it out with me.

Liese,

I don't think it was a trick. Schedules can be quirky and there are so many variables that can impact a schedule. I think he was simply trying to fit you in and was willing to juggle his schedule to do that because there was some degree of flexibility in his schedule whereas you had indicated that you did not have that kind of flexibility. I think he was trying to be accommodating.

However, I do think it is strange that the secretary called you, "Babe"!

Just food for thought, so please take no offense...

What if it is a test? Is it necessary to "pass" (i.e. give T the answer you think will make him feel secure about this question)? Is the test about your romantic feelings? Or is it maybe about your honesty with yourself and T? Does passing mean doing what you think he wants? Or does passing mean being true and choosing to trust him with your feelings on how his actions confuse and hurt him? What does "passing" mean? What does it get you? It builds a block the understanding. You may feel it is necessary, because his actions have made you feel unreceived, untrusted. What does "failing" this test mean? Are there consequences or is it just your T trying to "know you" in a way that he's not sure you're aware of consciously. What are the consequences of failing to acknowledge or confront the presumption that he is testing you? Might you erroneously presume future manipulation where there is none? Might he interpret your non-objection to complete ignorance, or worse, permission to act deceitfully toward you in the future, as the ends justify the means? I think assumptions like this really must be confronted, and in the therapy relationship (where trust is THE essential ingredient), allowing it to go unaddressed can be a lost opportunity, even a setback. It seems like neither you nor T is in a place of trust right now regarding this relationship. I'm sure it will be worked through eventually, but this is an opportunity to take the initiative, if you are ready. And it's completely OK if you're not. Like I said, just something to think about and absolutely no judgment. Sorry if this doesn't make sense. I am typing one-handed while dealing with my toddler and holding my infant nephew.

LG, thanks for replying. This man works like clockwork. Very organized. I'm not sure he was being flexible if all these other appointments were open.

Yaku, All very interesting points. Thank you. Quite honestly, I would so much rather he talk to me about it all then subject me to this? It just makes me feel humliated and stupid. Like he's playing with me.

so help me think through the next step. Let's just say that he WAS testing me. And, if I took that 12:45, it would mean one thing to him.

But I was on a different plane. Couldn't deal with all the attending emotions. Turned it down.

Now, I'm just pissed off that he's game playing. And that he's been game playing with his schedule. It all makes sense now. I've been invalidating myself. I second guess what I need. I hesitate to ask for it. And then I get strung along with his stupid float list. And he just lets me get strung along.

For Christ's sake, guys, I hate to admit this but I've been wearing the same pair of pants for four months now and alternating between the same two shirts. I just thought two sessions a week would help bring me out of this funk!!!! There's a part of my brain that knows I'm not functional and is trying to fix it. The other part wants to stay in bed all day and do nothing.

So, Yaku, how can I grow from this? DO I need to call him and tell him how pissed off I am????

I just told him this story on Monday about when I went away to college. I was scheduled to come home for a visit at Thanksgiving. Most of the other kids lived closeby and went home often on weekends to visit friends. I was feeling really homesick. I called my Dad in October, crying, please can I come home for a visit???? He told me I was being manipulative and up to my old tricks. Are you seeing the parallels? Do I even need to ask?

I hate therapy. I love therapy. I hate therapy. I love therapy.

I think a call might be helpful or just a session with the whole focus being this feeling of being manipulated. What I have done with T every time something like this pops up (perhaps not immediately, but eventually) is go straight to him with it. I say it in a non-threatening way, a way that doesn't assume I KNOW for sure what his intentions are. But, I do say how his actions make me feel. For example, I have told T that when he said, "God bless" as a goodbye at the end of our sessions, it was sounding like, "I'm done, go away now!" I texted him yesterday that I felt completely abandoned about the way he ended the session. I told him that I was paranoid he was calling me, "Kiddo" on purpose to trigger these powerful parental transference feelings. I admitted via email that I was sometimes paranoid that he was going behind my back to my H, my pastor and others, because the same week I admitted to them being support people for me, most of them stopped responding to me for a week straight all at the same time. T has always been steady, corrected misperceptions, apologized for his actions where he maybe should have been more in tune. He has admitted to purposeful engineering (trying to avoid triggering by changing the way he does things). I feel MORE trusting of him, but none of that could have happened if I wasn't honest that I was struggling to trust him in the first place. When I discussed this dilemma with T, how I wanted to tell him things, but I was afraid that the way he reacted would mean I couldn't trust him anymore. He simply said that he thought he was trustworthy, but if he wasn't, it was very important that I find that out for my security/safety. So, no matter what the answer is, it's important to know. And, this can be the precipice of real growth in your therapy.

Liese I do not think this was a trick or a test or some Machiavellian manipulation on your T's part. I think he was simply trying to fit you in and be flexible.

I certainly don't think you need to stress over his lunch hour or worry when he is going to eat. Like Smiley said, he's a grown man and he should decide when and if he eats. It's not your problem. If my T offers me an appointment I feel sure it's because he WANTS to offer it to me not because he testing me to see if I accept it and if that is telling him some secret information that he will use in our therapy. That is WAY too underhanded to contemplate.

And if he IS doing these kinds of things... being manipulative and tricky... then you need to run like hell away from him. Truly. That is really BAD news.

What I am concerned about as well is his focus on if you are having romantic feelings for him. So what if you are? Does that get you thrown out of therapy? He's supposed to accept your feelings and be open to discussing them. And if you say you are not having romantic feelings then he needs to accept that too. I know with my oldT I would run romantic scenarios in my head or even sexual ones and they just didn't fit... didn't feel right to me. What did feel okay and right was the parental feelings. I wanted to just sit with him, be held, hugged, read to, believed in, cheered on, and supported and guided by him. I wanted him to be proud of me. Like a good parent would be. This comes from the attachment injury.

Liese, your T just does NOT understand attachment injury and how it manifests itself in the therapeutic relationship. He has no clue what your feelings are about, where they come from, why you have them in the first place and what to do with them. His incompetence in this area is causing you further hurt and feeding your lack of self-esteem and making you feel depressed and unwanted.

I have no idea what to tell you to do at this point because you seem to be really attached to him and I know how hard it is to break the attachment. Believe me I know the pain involved in that. I think you will have to decide on your own what is more important... that you get well by finding a T who can provide you what you need to heal, or to stay with him in this limbo to maintain the attachment to him.

You are really the only one who can make the decision. We will be here to support you whatever you decide. I hope you are not offended by what I say but it is hard to see you work yourself into a state like this where you become paralyzed due to his insensitivity to your attachment to him. Maybe the only thing you can do is to just lay it all out there for him and ask him a lot of really blunt and difficult attachment type questions. I would ask him to relate to you his plan and his ideas for helping you with your attachment injury. If he evades the questions or gets you off topic... that is a big red flag. You need some answers and I don't think you have much to lose in asking the hard questions.

I hope you will be okay until you see him again.

Hugs
TN

Thanks TN,

Not offended at all. I think I will ask him all about attachment. It's front and center on the list for Monday. I still really don't think he was being flexible because I've never seen that kind of flexibility in his schedule before. But I know he would never admit any other motivation than being flexible. All I asked for was an appointment earlier than 4:30. If his regular lunch is at 12:45 and he has a 1:30 and a 2:15 open, and I ask for an appointment earlier than 4:30, why would he feel the need to be "flexible" and change his lunch around when he has these open spots? It just doesn't make sense to me. I can ask him about it but I know he would never tell me his true motivation and would insist that his motivation was to be flexible. So, I don't even know if I should go down that path.

What if you are the kind of person who just takes what people give you? And that most of the time you are hanging on a flagpole being thrown around by the wind. And you could ask for help. You could ask to come down off the flagpole. Or there is a ladder nearby and someone could move it for you. But you don't know that you can ask for help. No one has ever told you that before. So, you just keep flapping in the wind, taking the crumbs that people offer you. Most people however just walk by you and ignore you and no one bothers to tell you, well, geez, if you had just asked, I could have helped you down off the flagpole.

How does attachment fit into that????


Maybe I'm making too much of the romantic feelings thing. He said it was no big deal. We would just have to talk about it. I told him I don't want to feel ashamed about my feelings. He told me I shouldn't feel ashamed. Heck if my marriage was great, would I be in therapy???? If my marriage was great and I was in therapy, would I develop feelings for my T???? I know it's all normal. It's just me. I feel sooo embarassed talking about it all.

Oh gosh, what if I have never been in love before? Has everyone out there been in love? In real love? What if I don't even know what it feels like???? Do you all know what it feels like????

Thanks DF for the (((liese)))). Yes, learned helplessness. That's it. That's what I have. I knew that back in my 20's. T told me that I "suffer" from it too. There was the time that I walked on the hot pavement for a half a mile and burned the bottom of my feet. I wound up with huge blisters on the soles of my feet. When I got to the top of the hill, I looked across the street to the other side and it was entirely in the shade. DF, I never even looked to get out of the hot sun.

So happy for you that you have experienced love.