Oh ((( STRM ))) I would’ve posted sooner but only just came back to forum. Want to say that this thread isn’t meant to be an indictment of the one you started, there’s a place for BOTH - I reckon none of us has an all bad or all good T so thought it would be a good idea to have a place to express both the good AND the bad stuff without the two sides cancelling each other out or getting us conflicted about it. (For what it’s worth I’ve actually posted twice one after the other in your helpful T thread - and I seem to have killed that thread too :sigh: )

And Monte I hope you don’t feel bad about what you posted - it’s all swings and roundabouts isn’t it - all of us at some time or another are going to feel pain at hearing about other’s good fortune (well I do anyway). But as AG said there’s space for ALL of it on this forum. (Just as well ‘cos I’m in anti-T mode at the moment!)

Now back to venting. That’s a pet hate of mine too, when T acts like I’m saying something for the first time and I just KNOW I’ve already said it. Feeds into my not being listened to/heard set up.

As for being asked what you need in any particular moment I’ve got to throw in my moan about that one too - how can you be expected to tell someone what you need when a big part of what you need is that it has to be initiated by the other person in the first place????

Like for instance (I’m thinking of Monte’s artwork right now and applying it hypothetically to me - sorry Monte it’s just on my mind as something loaded with emotional meaning I don’t mean anything personal by it) showing or telling something you’ve done that you are quite pleased about and T says ok what do you need right now and I’m thinking if I say openly well actually I need you to praise and encourage me about what I’ve done it kind of blows it out the water - what I’m really needing would be a spontaneous expression of praise on T’s part, having to openly ask for it both renders it meaningless because I’ve put words in his mouth and also invalidates the need because it has to be spontaneously given in the first place to actually meet the need, not to mention the whole question of not being able to believe whatever is said if it doesn’t come spontaneously from him in the first place. Like WLOH your example of reassurance - though it sounds like you are getting him trained correctly!

Phew that was a long winded way of saying it, hope it makes sense.

Sometimes I think Ts rather than asking what we need, should use their own skill and empathy and offer a selection of needs that makes it easier to express them, like, would it be ok if I... or, do you need a smile, a hug, some reassurance, a word of praise... something that shows they are in tune with what’s going on in us and are making it safe to acknowledge that we need something.

After all how many of us have any clear idea of what we actually need in any given moment? It’s more like just a vague sense of needing something. And when we do have a clear idea, (like wanting a hug) it’s usually too fraught with fear about boundaries and the like. Or, as AG has described in previous posts, we know already we’re not going to get it so all the pain of expressing a need that won’t be met gets in the way too. Yeah I can just hear Ts saying oh well part of doing therapy is to learn to be able to ask for what you need (and deal with not getting it too), but it sure would help a lot if they showed willingness to get in there with us in the first place and help us express those needs.

Hell even the phrasing could be more helpful - not - what do you need right now - but - do you need something right now?

Sorry guys I’m not being specific here being T-less at the moment so am making generalizations based on things that I’ve found unhelpful with nearly every T I’ve ever seen.

Lamplighter

Oh LL, I didn't take you starting this thread as an indictment of my other thread at all. I think both are useful threads!

I totally agree about the wording of the "what do you need" question. I am usually aware that I need something, but to have to name it, especially when I'm already feeling so vulnerable is synonymous to asking me to jump off of a cliff without a parachute. Not going to happen. Thanks for asking though. : )

dragonfly: You mentioning your T saying gosh reminds me of a few things that my T says that she means to be helpful but tend to rub me the wrong way. Oh and I agree, who says gosh?

My T says two things that on the surface seem ok, but really trigger things inside:

1) when I'm am really upset and struggling (usually a child part) she will say, "oh, you poor thing" I know she is trying to be sympathetic but it makes me feel pathetic.

2) T frequently will say things like, "do what you need to do to take care of yourself". That always gets me because that is what I've been doing my entire life. It has always been "take care of yourself" and her saying that reminds me of that every time.

OK one more:

My P would always "forget" my husband's name. I've been complaining about him for a year and you still can't remember his name?! He always remembered my kids names, so I think this was just passive-aggressive behavior on his part (which became obvious when he rolled his eyes and threw up his hands once when I started talking about him). The message being, "Therapy is about you, not your husband. Stop complaining about your husband already!"

quote:

Not listening for the subtext of what I’m telling them. (This is a biggie and ALL Ts I’ve had are guilty of this one). I’m wanting them to listen out for and ask questions about what I’m struggling to try and tell them and instead they all seem to just hear the words and reply to the content of the words instead of checking with me as to what it’s revealing about me (and specifically, how it makes me feel.)

I suppose that's a tricky one for them, and they are not very well traind at readin our minds. Yes, I noticed my therapist missed out of couple of valuable tracks to follow and sometimes does follow up on something that is not as much relevant, something I didn't really want to talk about and I said it to gather some courage perhaps to proceed to more difficult stuff.

I really hate when my T asks what it would be like to ... this or that, or what was it like to...
I don't fucking know and I don't know how to answer these questions, so I really hate when he comes up with it.

I think sometimes he explains too much, he can go on and on and not in the very right moments. So I told him to stop twice. I think that must have been quite helpful to him

She goes on bloody holiday lol
She's never said ' I care about you '
Oh and the what do you need question.....i hate it

Hev

MH your list of ten burn out signs in a T made me laugh! What’s not so funny is that your T told you s/he is burnt out (I missed that first time I read your post). I put that one up there with some of the MOST ‘unhelpful’ things a T could say. In fact the more I think about it the more a load of conflicting scary and awful feelings come up - I do hope you can sort that comment out with your T.

Oh Hev I get you with the going on holiday bit - I reckon they shouldn’t be allowed to, or at least only when WE go on holiday! But also, I’ve just seen two new Ts one of whom is going to be out of action for quite a long time soon, and the other is off for a week, back for a week then off for another week. Talk about disruptive!

Just musing about unhelpful things some of the new Ts I’ve been seeing have said or done. One of them spent the entire second half of my session glancing at the wall behind me every couple of minutes - at first I thought there must have been some eye catching painting or something there then it dawned on me it was probably a clock. Sure enough at end of session when I turned around there was this enormous clock on the wall. Thanks T for making me feel valued and worth your time!

Another one spent a good part of the session self disclosing in an attempt to convince me to do body massage work - saying how she wished she could do it but she’s not trained in it and actually you really need to find someone you can trust but there’s not a lot of them that are trustworthy and actually she only knows of one she trusts and she is in London and that she really helped T and she really wishes she could do it but she isn’t really trained in it and on and on and on I thought I was repetitive but this one outdid even me. And it was all irrelevant anyway - more of the advice giving that I had NOT gone into therapy for. When I mentioned that she had spent a lot of the time talking about herself she said oh yes I probably shouldn’t have but I did it to help you consider doing this massage work. Hm. Seeing as how she wasn’t offering it, and couldn’t tell me anyone in my area who did, that seemed just a tad pointless (and a waste of my session time.)

And yet another one whom I’d emailed over a week ago finally replies with no reference to the questions I’d asked in my email but saying that we should meet so she can get a background history leading up to my present difficulties. Hm haven’t I just outlined that in my email? I’ve found that the ones who don’t make any specific reference to what I’ve written are the ones who turn out to be the least ‘helpful’ lol. What was worse in this case was that she offered an extended first session and charged pro rata for it. I really got the message that she was more interested in making a buck out of it rather than wasting her precious time thinking about any kind of insightful reply to my original questions. I mean what’s so difficult about answering a question like ‘does your approach include focusing on how I am feeling in the present moment in a session?’

Ok that’s enough I think - I’m sure I’ll come up with a whole lot more when I do finally get back into therapy. Fingers crossed.

Lamplighter

I called him "asshole" last session. That was a big thing for me. And today he says, that I already called him that before two or three times. How can he not remember?! I didn't do that before! Does he take any f...ing notes? I called him bastard (and only on paper), but not an asshole!
Forgetful prick!
(I still love him, adore him etc...)

I have become very dependent on my T. It has taken me a long time to get to the point where I could start bringing my stuff up in sessions. Something I have noticed, and that bothers me sometimes is that many times when I start to say something, or when I am speaking, I hear her voice overtake mine. The conversation then becomes directed away from the statement or point I was making. I thought she was supposed to listen, or at least let me finish talking.

Recently I was discussing some promotions that were being made at work based on a person's sexual orientation, rather than merit, and how it was upsetting to many of us because it wasn't fair. She blurted out, "you could be gay". Where did that come from? Did I touch a sensitive issue for her or something. Am I out of line to think this wasn't appropriate? I don't know if she really thinks I'm gay, or if she was being defensive because of the discussion. If there were some question of my orientation, shouldn't I have brought it up first? Regardless, it didn't seem appropriate or timely. Is this just me? This is hard because I don't want to find out she stepped out of line. I want to trust that she has my better interests at heart. This has really thrown me.
KOI

Koi- I think when we are in therapy we are highly suggestible to whatever the T says. Especially if there is attachment to the t. So they should be careful. not to suggest things that we may then feel compelled at some point to act upon, even if it was something that wasn't really our own life project, just because beloved T suggested it... Does that make any sense? that being said, T's can make mistakes, heaven knows my T makes his share since he can't read my mind (gosh darn it!)and because I can't read his (double gosh darn it!)
It is possible that she was saying this just to let you know that if that was the case she would still accept you? It is very hard to untangle all these things in therapy, especially if you are prone at all to spaciness in sessions as I am at times, so clarity needed to discuss an abstract concept can get really difficult. But, that being said, it still needs to be discussed so you can figure out what she meant...especially since it is bothering you so much. And that is normal part of therapy. Now, will I PLEASE take my own advice? Good to see your post.

BB

Blackbird,
I really appreciate your advice. I just need to retain my confidence in my T so I can remain open to sharing. I have great respect for her. The amount of the confidence and trust we put in them must feel pretty heavy at times. Thank you for your words. It helps me to frame the whole event more realistically I think. They are as human as we are. I like your reference to wishing either side could read minds; a pretty boring experience for her I'm afraid.

Great Thread LampLighter !!!

As a psychotherapist/counsellor, this is very interesting information.

Hello MHP! Welcome to the forums. It's great that you're a therapist yourself, you can give us the view from the other side, so to speak But I am looking forward to hearing of your own experiences in whichever capacity you write. Glad to have you here.

LL

Thank you very much LL!

I am both a T and a patient. When you are in the mental health field, you learn a lot by just being a patient and going through your own issues. This counts as part of your experience as a T (it should anyway ).

Your thread so far seem to have exposed a lot of frustration caused by miscommunication and maybe sometime, some misconceptions between the patient and his/her T.

I've experienced it myself more than once as a patient.

As a T, I'm developing an approach to avoid these confusions to maximize the efficiency of the therapy.

To LL and everybody else, have you ever experienced 'unhelpful things Ts do' to the point where it made you reconsider/question your desire to be in therapy ?

Hi MHP. Welcome. Very excited that you have joined the discussion. I have one issue with my T that has brought me very close to stopping therapy multiple times.

I don't know if this is helpful, but specific to my experience, I spend time after every session trying to remember any indication my T gave that would make it clear to me I am "welcome" to come back. I'm not talking about whether I "should" come back, because that is up to me. I imagine she would tell me if she felt it best to end therapy and I understand it is my responsibility to decide if I want to continue. I have been on the verge of quitting and/or finding another therapist many times as I leave feeling like I am flapping in the wind. There is no closure. I don't expect an "invitation" to come back, but even a summary comment to indicate "we can talk about this next time" or "we've covered a lot important material today" etc., would leave me with some comfort and sense of continuity. Validation?
Thanks,
KOI

Hi KOI,

Hmmm, I don't want to say too much because I don't want my posts to be regarded as formal advice, so please see me more as a patient that has experience with Ts and the Therapies themselves. Having said that I'll try to give you my point of view by putting it in context.

As a patient, I've never really expected too much empathy from my Ts. Instead, I see Ts as 'tools' or 'instruments' that I can use to 'get better'. I've suffered mostly of depression with a really strong sense of loneliness.

Whatever therapy a T chooses to use for treating a patient, there is always an analytical component in the therapy and I was made aware that this is a powerful tool you can use in moments of distress or uncertitude. The great thing about this is that it challenges your own conclusion and gives it some continuity by putting it into perspective.

In your case KOI, I would suggest that you ask yourself "why do I feel the need of having my T giving me a summary comment?" (I'm sure this is a bit more complex than this, but let's just stick to that for now). This might help you find an answer, possibly related to whatever you are suffering from (or not), and it could also turn out to be substance to talk about while you're in a session with your T.

Does it make sense ?