Hm like MTF and Monte in another thread when I saw the helpful things T does thread I immediately thought of starting a thread about unhelpful things Ts do and now I’m going to post it - I suspect a LOT of us have niggling doubts but feel too guilty or ungrateful to air them and I reckon it might help to hear the same things being experienced by others.

My list is taken from my experiences with all the new Ts I’ve been seeing since finishing with ex-T as well as stuff from when I was seeing him. (I should point out that ex-T did do some VERY helpful things so I’ve also posted in the helpful Ts thread, just so you don’t think I’m totally negative about therapists at this point

1. Not listening for the subtext of what I’m telling them. (This is a biggie and ALL Ts I’ve had are guilty of this one). I’m wanting them to listen out for and ask questions about what I’m struggling to try and tell them and instead they all seem to just hear the words and reply to the content of the words instead of checking with me as to what it’s revealing about me (and specifically, how it makes me feel.)

2. They don’t ask questions about how I’m feeling - there’s no focus on what I might be feeling in that moment, right then. And even when it’s obvious I’m having some sort of emotional response (well obvious to me) they either don’t pick up on it or end up talking ABOUT it instead of helping me to go into it.

3. Telling them they haven’t understood what I’m saying and getting either a long argument back about how they HAVE understood or just plain silence.

4. Telling them they haven’t listened to me or heard me properly and getting the classic ‘but I have’ and repeating back to me some of the words I’ve used and their response to it. Why can’t they accept I FEEL not heard and address that?

5. Asking if T has understood what I’m saying and getting a plain ‘yes’ back when what I’m wanting is a paraphrase in their own words of what I’ve explained so I get to know whether he/she has really understood or not. Getting a parroting back of my own words that also doesn’t tell me whether T has understood or not. Asking T point blank to feed back to me what he/she thinks I’ve explained and STILL getting a parroting back of what I’ve said.

6. Having a sentence cut off almost before I’ve finished talking and being treated to a dissertation that contains either advice (!!!!) or a bald statement of fact that allows no further revealing by me. (For instance telling a new T ‘I believe I am bad’ and having her go into a ten minute discourse (I timed it!) on how I should use affirmations to counter that core experience. Asking another new T whether she would ask me questions about how I feel in the session and being treated to (for about the third time) a dissertation on the theoretical aspects of mindfulness - without actually answering my question! And she had her eyes closed most of the time she was talking at me about it too.

7. Explaining really clearly in a particular session what I need and T seeming to get it so I go away thinking great we’re going to start working on that next session only to find next session either it’s been ‘forgotten’ or something totally unrelated is brought up.

8. Explaining stuff about myself to T and getting text book quotes in response eg 'it sounds like what you need is to work on intrapersonal feelings before you can move on to looking at interpersonal experiences’ (which made me think oh yes she’s got it! until next session I realized she had simply jargonized the very things I’d been saying to her.)

He he I could go on and on but that will do for now. Makes me feel a bit better too.

Lamplighter

Well, I identify with a lot of what you have said Lamplighter, very well described in a way with words I would struggle to assemble. I have really not thought that much about the dynamics of therapy, how I'm being approached,
more about the "me" sitting there trying to express myself. With my therapist, what doesn't help me is him recounting other patient's stories...I fail to see the connection lots of time, and its the same stories over and over again. Please get back to me me me!

I really hate it when my T asks me what I need in the moment. I can only sometimes barely hold on to being aware of a feeling - I have no idea what I need most of the time! I told her that it pisses me off when she asks me that because I can never answer her and it makes me feel like an idiot. She said she doesn't expect that I have an answer, but hopes that it will get me thinking about accepting and recognizing that I might have needs. Maybe. Someday.

I also hate when I tell her something that feels vulnerable and she just looks at me in silence. I am usually hoping for some reassurance but can't ask for it, and I would think that would be pretty obvious, but I guess not. I have wondered if it is because she doesn't want to influence my attachment either way. I have also wondered if she isn't really listening, isn't getting what I'm trying to say, or just plain doesn't know what to say.

I'm really sorry for starting the other thread. I wasn't trying to rub salt in anyone's wounds. That really was the last thing that I was trying to do.

Oh seablue--how much I can relate to exactly what you said up there^^---I've addressed the second issue with T and he told me that he thought the reassurance could be conveyed in some other way (the way he "was" with me, whatever that means) and that if he said it out loud, I would think that he was being insincere and just telling me what I wanted to hear. I told him I need to hear the reassurance and he's working on it, but still sometimes, he doesn't get it.

As to the asking what I need, T does that a lot with me too and I never know what to say, because I either don't know what I need or am afraid to ask for it.

I don't like it when my T acts like she has never heard something I'm saying before when I know that I've told her several times.

I also don't like it when she asks me what I need. I feel so vulnerable and put on the spot. I am almost always scared to say what I actually need.

There is something that my T is constantly trying to get me to agree to and she knows that the answer is no, but she still tries. Drives me nuts!

quote:

Monte: Also, nothing worse for those who are having/have had a tough time with their T than having to read other peoples glowing reports and wonderful experiences...talk about salt in the wound.

quote:

STRM: I'm really sorry for starting the other thread. I wasn't trying to rub salt in anyone's wounds. That really was the last thing that I was trying to do.

Sorry to hijack the thread but I really wanted to comment on this. Monte, I'm not trying to put you on the spot because I'm sure it wasn't your intention to marginalize anyone or tell anyone to shut up, but I think we need to be really careful. This forum is about people dealing with therapy, both the ups and downs, and giving them a place to express themselves, both the good and bad. So there's nothing wrong with a thread on what we think our therapist's are doing wrong. But there's also nothing wrong with a thread on what our therapist's are doing right. As a matter of fact, I know that people have posted in the past that hearing about others' negative OR positive experiences have helped them clarify what they're looking for in therapy or what it is that identifies a good therapist.

We're a lot of different people from many different cultures and backgrounds, in different places on our healing journey and I think if we all need to be aware that sometimes the things other people post may be difficult for us for many different reasons. But I would want to err on the side of dealing with my own pain and allowing people to speak. Don't get me wrong, I think a sensitivity to other people and what they're going through is important, but I also don't want to shut anyone down. There are too few places to go where you can be understood when discussing these issues.

If I may provide an example from my own experience, after first saying I would NOT have said anything about this subject if I had not needed an example and I don't want to change anyone's posting about it. (There's already one member who I think avoids this because they know I struggle with the issue, and they need to knock it off!) My therapist has a strick no-hug policy. I know because we spent two sessions discussing it. It ain't NEVER going to happen. when I'm in a bad place and fighting against the boundaries it can sometimes be pretty painful to read about other people getting hugs, back rubs, etc. from their therapists. BUT, I know I want to be able to talk about what it meant to me if I were getting one. I know what its meant to be to be able to talk about NOT getting one. I also take the attitude that there are a lot of things I love about my therapist, and I've chosen to live with the lack of hugs, its worth it. But that doesn't mean I think anyone else should have to do the same.

So I think its very legitimate to talk about a particular topic or action causing you pain but to also respect other people's needs to talk about the same things from another angle.

STRM, you didn't do anything wrong posting that topic. I actually thought it was a good question and could provide a lot of good information to other people about what to look for in a therapist. I also understand this topic because if you're struggling with a therapist it's just as important to be able to talk about to other people who can understand why those actions would be upsetting.

No one's doing anything wrong either way.

AG

quote:

We're a lot of different people from many different cultures and backgrounds, in different places on our healing journey and I think if we all need to be aware that sometimes the things other people post may be difficult for us for many different reasons. But I would want to err on the side of dealing with my own pain and allowing people to speak.

This is a really good point and a really good time to say how much I appreciate that I can come here and vent or celebrate, whatever the case may be. I have an example like AG's hugs...right about the time my T terminated with me for telling him my feelings, several other people's T's were reporting fabulous responses from their T's from telling them the same kind of thing. It was very hard to read those stories at the time...so I just avoided those threads for a while. I'm so glad there is room for everyone here, wherever they are on their journey.

Peace,
SG

1)

quote:

Originally posted by Monte:
Not confronting or even acknowledging my obvious and painful struggles with transference toward him. That is my biggest gripe. Actually I believe that has been damaging and almost...dare I say it...irresponsible.

Yeah, that. And even when I brought it up, he shrugged it off as, "Everyone gets crushes on people; that's okay."

2) Advice giving! I want to be heard; I don't want him to Fix everything.

3) Talking about his feelings, and too much self-disclosure about his family. It's none of my business, no matter how much I may crave it! It just causes me more pain, and makes it harder to talk to him. For example, knowing that his wife is a slob makes me wonder if he thinks I'M a slob when I complain that my husband criticizes me relentlessly. Knowing that he feels defective makes it really hard to give him any meaningful feedback, if I'm worried it might hurt his feelings.

4) Not shaking my hand when we first met. It seemed really odd to me, since it's a social norm for two people to shake hands when they introduce themselves. Since he didn't, I wondered if he had a no-touching policy, or maybe he's phobic about germs...? It became kind of a preoccupation for me and I craved touch yet was always worried that he must find me repulsive if he can't even shake my hand. (OK, so this one is obviously about ME, not him. I should have just asked him about it.)

quote:

Originally posted by echo:
3) Talking about his feelings, and too much self-disclosure about his family. It's none of my business, no matter how much I may crave it! It just causes me more pain, and makes it harder to talk to him. For example, knowing that his wife is a slob makes me wonder if he thinks I'M a slob when I complain that my husband criticizes me relentlessly. Knowing that he feels defective makes it really hard to give him any meaningful feedback, if I'm worried it might hurt his feelings.

Echo, I think you're absolutely justified in being really concerned about this.

This is a MASSIVE red flag to me. Maybe I'm just used to having a more psychodynamically-oriented T who reveals nothing about himself, but I think that revealing any personal information that is suggestive of any personal belief, conviction or judgement does just what you experience; namely that it damages the perception and confidence that you're talking to someone who is objective and non-judgemental, and that is a problem.

I mean, of course a T can comment on something that is a matter of basic issues of right or wrong, but casual opining about his family, man, that ain't good in my opinion.

Russ

I have one to add to the list. How about how UNhelpful it is when your T tells you he/she is burnt out.


Top Ten Signs You Are Approaching Burn-Out For psychologists and mental health workers.
by Storm A. King

10) You think of the peaceful park you like as “your private therapeutic milieu.”

9) You realize that your floridly psychotic patient, who is picking invisible flowers out of mid air, is probably having more fun in life than you are.

8) A grateful client, who thinks you walk on water, brings you a small gift and you end up having to debrief your feelings of unworthiness with a colleague.

7) You are watching a re-run of the “Wizard of Oz” and you start to categorize the types of delusions that Dorothy had.

6) Your best friend comes to you with severe relationship troubles, and you start trying to remember which cognitive behavioral technique has the most empirical validly for treating this problem.

5) You realize you actually have no friends, they have all become just one big case load.

4) A co-worker asks how you are doing and you reply that you are a bit “internally preoccupied” and “not able to interact with peers” today.

3) Your spouse asks you to set the table and you tell them that it would be “countertherapeutic to your current goals” to do that.

2) You tell your teenage daughter she is not going to start dating boys because she is “in denial”, ”lacks insight.” and her “emotions are not congruent with her chronological age.”

And, the number one reason you may be burning out....

1) You are packing for a trip to a large family holiday reunion and you take the DSM-IV with you “just in case.”



I am going to print this off and give it to my T. Not kidding.

Thanks AG. I appreciate your response. I really contemplated whether or not to post the thread in the first place and I tried to reference those who aren't in a T relationship or in a difficult one by asking what you would want in a T relationship.

Your example was helpful as well. I actually had a really good session with my T a week ago and really wanted to post about it and the impact that it had on me, but I didn't because I was afraid that it would be insensitive to what others are experiencing and posting about. I've been in both positions and I understand that it can be so hard to read about the positive, but at the same time it can help because it gives reference points for the good that is out there when you find the right T for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Russ:

quote:

Originally posted by echo:
3) Talking about his feelings, and too much self-disclosure about his family. It's none of my business, no matter how much I may crave it! It just causes me more pain, and makes it harder to talk to him. For example, knowing that his wife is a slob makes me wonder if he thinks I'M a slob when I complain that my husband criticizes me relentlessly. Knowing that he feels defective makes it really hard to give him any meaningful feedback, if I'm worried it might hurt his feelings.

Echo, I think you're absolutely justified in being really concerned about this.

This is a MASSIVE red flag to me. Maybe I'm just used to having a more psychodynamically-oriented T who reveals nothing about himself, but I think that revealing any personal information that is suggestive of any personal belief, conviction or judgement does just what you experience; namely that it damages the perception and confidence that you're talking to someone who is objective and non-judgemental, and that is a problem.

I mean, of course a T can comment on something that is a matter of basic issues of right or wrong, but casual opining about his family, man, that ain't good in my opinion.

Russ

Thanks Russ. I'm no longer seeing this therapist. It took me a loooong time to realize our interactions had moved from helpful to agonizing for me, but I finally quit a little over a month ago. Unfortunately, he seems to think I quit because he cured me, because I was never able to tell him that I feel like I traded one set of problems for another, worse, problem after 14 months of therapy with him.

Monte,

No worries. I wasn't mad, I just felt bad that I may have upset other members here and it was not my intention. I really struggled with whether or not to post the thread and when I did I also had others in mind that have been struggling in the T department. It probably made me feel more scared than it normally would because I am just getting to know everyone and I really didn't want to step on toes.

I appreciate your clarification and apology. Thank you.

ETA: LL, thanks for starting this thread as well. You were one (of several) that I specifically had in mind when I was torn about starting the other thread. I certainly was not wanting to upset you or throw anything in your face.