Hi everyone... sorry I haven't been chatting much lately... just haven't had it in me. I have hit a rough patch as of late and am not really sure what to do about it.

Ever since I got back from my "vacation" with my f.o.o. I have been really off. I was dreading going out of town for this exact reason. The biggest issue is that I feel really disconnected to my t... like I have to start building a relationship with her all over again now that I am back in town. I don't feel like I have any of her in me anymore and it feels really shitty. I had gotten used to feeling that glimmer of warmth within me- the beginning of me internalizing her. But it's gone now. I don't find comfort in anything and I feel really overwhelmed with life, work and school. Plus, I feel like I shouldn't even go to my appointment with her because I never have time to tell her everything I want to say. Last week I just cried and am sure I made very little sense. I just wish she'd let me sit there and talk until i didn't have anything else to say.

I think I'm frustrated and angry too. I haven't had much time to pay attention to the little girl in me- and at times I have been outright mean and neglegent toward her... I have had this tempting urge in me to throw away the transitional object that I sleep with. I just hate feeling so behind in life and I really don't like trying to be nice to myself when I am not on top of my game. I guess I don't like being nice to me when I'm not easy to be nice to.

I feel like I am regressing back to where I was about 6 months ago. I am fantasizing a lot about my t and what it would be like to be her kid. And I'm really wishing she would take advantage of me like I'm used to people doing. I want to barter... you know, like "I'll do your laundry if you'll love me" or "I'll pay you extra per session if you'll pretend that you're my mom." I know that's pathetic but it's where I am. Fortunately or unfortunately... depending on how you look at it... my t is the first person who WON'T barter with me. Everyone up til now has exploited me and used me for their own purposes... and while I see why that doesn't work well in the end, it sure as hell feels better short term than this shit. It was so much more tangible... so much more clear to me.

I just have so much I want to talk about that all feels equally important and I want to just tell her everything all at once.


-ct

CT I'm so sorry you are suffering. I have felt exactly as you describe at times. I never feel like I have enough time with my T to say everything that I need to. Sometimes there is so much on my mind that I have to write it down and prioritize. This last session I ran overtime by 20 minutes and still left with more to say (I guess I just like to talk LOL). Aside from that...losing the connection is hard to deal with. I've been struggling with it too lately and we have both been working things out to get it back. We had a disruption last week and things have just not felt right since then. Sometimes I think when we are too stressed and busy with life there is no room to focus on the internal voice of our Ts. It just gets lost in the everyday BS we have to deal with.

When you are not being nice to yourself you need to stop and try to understand why you feel the need to punish yourself. I do this quite often and if I stop and think about it I realize I am punishing myself because my mom is no longer around to do it for me. I do it because it is what I think I deserve. We are our own worst judges and critics. And just because I have a little insight as to why I behave this way does not mean I have any answers for you. I'm still searching for the answer myself.

I understand the powerful attachment you feel w/your T and that you want to be her little girl so you can recreate the perfect childhood. I want to live with my T too but not as his daughter ...

So although I have no solutions for you I just wanted to say that I understand how you feel. I'm glad you were able to post about it... sometimes that alone will help. The other thing I would say is to print this out and take it to therapy so you can tell your T how you have been feeling. That should get therapy off to a running start again.

Be well,
TN

TN- Thank you for you insightful reply. It means a lot to hear a voice of reason- and to know that I am not the only one who feels this way.

I had the worst session of my life today. I am actually in shock about how awful it was. I was going in to talk about the stuff I wrote about in this post, and as I gave her my letter, I laid down on the couch like normal. Before she read the letter, she said, "I want to talk to you about this- Will you please sit up?" Long, painful story short, she thinks that me laying down during the session is regressive and destructive. I sat up and she went on to read my letter but I was instantly upset and I shutdown. I don't understand why she wants to take away my sense of safety. She says she doesn't want my safety to depend on her or her couch. The little girl in me is SOOOOO hurt right now. I mean, I look forward to laying on her couch every week, it's as close as I can get to my t and laying down with my face in pillows is what allows me the protection I need to be really vulnerable with my t.

After my t read my letter, she tried to talk to me about something I had written, but I told her I didn't want to talk. She kept asking what was wrong and I just kept saying I don't want to talk about it. She tried and tried but I wouldn't talk and just kept deflecting and trying to change the subject. I talked some in the last few minutes and told her I was embarrassed and felt stupid for ever letting myself be comfortable and that I felt like cutting/hurting myself. I don't even remember what all was said. I just know that one line really bothers me- she said, "this is my office, not my house." What does that mean? What does her house have to do with anything?

I really feel like this is the equivalent of taking a kids blankie away all the sudden. I mean... wow, I wasn't expecting this at all. And what's worse, is there are two very distinct aspects of this situation that read the same way my relationship with my mother (not the same intent, but the same feelings): 1) I finally had something good so she wanted to be sure and take it away... how many times did THAT play out with my mom? and 2) After last weeks session, I found out I had pink eye and called my t to tell her cause I had just finished crying on her pillows and thought she might want to wash them. I find it REALLY convenient that this week she all the sudden doesn't want me to lay on her pillows... she really just reiterated the message my mom gave me over and over and over that I am disgusting and need to be kept at a distance.

I don't know what to do... I mean the little girl in me DOES NOT TRUST my t right now and I don't blame her. She feels SO rejected again and i feel like this is just another time that I should have protected her from the people that are SUPPOSED to protect her. I can't believe this... I'm in shock...

CT,
Your session sounds so painful. Your first entry talks about feeling regressed and having fantasies of being your T's "kid". So, I can only imagine how it felt to be reminded you are in her "office". T's are suppose to stir things up inside. But they typically stand by us while we figure out why it hurts so bad. And from my experience with T's, there is usually a "method to their madness" and it comes from a loving place with our well being in mind. Your little one is lucky to have you as a protector and a voice for her while the confusion gets sorted out. I hope you're able to tell your T or write to your T about the similarities between your last session and your little one's life experiences, (without shutting down ).

I think you're brave to be able to share such raw emotions. Thank you for sharing them.

Q

quote:

Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
I don't know what to do... I mean the little girl in me DOES NOT TRUST my t right now and I don't blame her. She feels SO rejected again and i feel like this is just another time that I should have protected her from the people that are SUPPOSED to protect her. I can't believe this... I'm in shock...

CT,
I don't blame her either. I would think that your big girl wouldn't be able to trust your T right now either.

I'm sorry this happened. I can imagine how rejected you must feel.

I'm actually pretty angry for you. Sometimes on this site, I'm completely dumbfounded by what some peoples' Ts do. This is one of those times. I don't remotely understand why she thinks that you shouldn't be in a position in which you feel safe. If it's regression, then maybe that's what you need right now. What's wrong with that? Maybe you need to keep going to that place over and over in order to heal that part of you. I don't get it at all. What she did was definitely a way to get you to shut down. If someone had a particular chair that they liked to sit in, would she take it away from them? Or if someone liked to sit on the floor, would she not let them? No! She'd probably respect that. So, I don't understand why she did this to you. It makes no sense to me. Maybe she has her reasons, but whatever they are, I don't agree with them. On top of all of that, this was a time when you really needed her support, and she didn't give it to you.

I hope that you talk to her about it and tell her how painful it was.

catgirl

Thanks Questing and CG. I appreciate the support and understanding.

I talked to my t yesterday on the phone and I am going in tomorrow for an extra session. The adult in me understands why she wants me to sit up. She says I talk more and interact with her more that way, which I see. I also understand that she doesn't want me to think that i can ONLY be safe when i am with her, laying on her couch. The request itself doesn't bother me because I understand her reasoning and trust her (even though I don't agree with her).

I guess it bothered me so much because I was already laying down and in a vulnerable state. In the moment it felt like I tried to crawl into her lap and she just pushed me away- coldly and nonchalantly. That sense of rejection is what stings and is so dreadfully familiar. I truly don't think she knew how deeply this would affect me and I think if she had, she would have brought it up more proactively. Even she said on the phone yesterday that maybe she should have mentioned her concern about my dependence on this position all along... umm, YEAH!

I guess another thing is that is seemed so flippant-- and like I had NO choice or say in the matter whatsoever. She decided it and that was it... I mean, she listened to my protests and all but her mind was made up and I feel like I'm just supposed to get over it. The whole thing just felt so shaming because i thought I was doing a good thing by trying to get myself in a position to open up but it apparently wasn't a good thing after all. And I hate being called out or rebuked like that. I feel so stupid for even trying and it makes me not want to try anymore. I was really getting to the point where I thought she would always be gentle with me and this felt SO abrupt. I feel tricked... like she got me to trust her just so she can f*** with me.

What sucks is i understand her intentions were not to hurt me- that she has my best long term interest in mind. But she recreated so many past experiences all at once: I thought I was safe/okay but I really wasn't, I tried to connect and was pushed away, I was too disgusting to be accepted, my feelings didn't matter, someone who was supposed to protect me hurt me, the other shoe always drops, I finally had something good and it was arbitrarily taken away from me just because, relying on other people is too unpredictable and scary and being vulnerable will only lead to pain and rejection. And of course all of my old tapes are playing non-stop: you don't deserve to be safe, you're stupid for trying, you never should have believed that she cared about you, people who are supposed to be safe really want to hurt you, you can't do anything (not even therapy) right, you are too disgusting to be loved, you never should have let your guard down, boundaries are just her excuse for not having to be near you, you're a dumbass for letting yourself get comfortable, you deserve to be punished for misbehaving, etc.

Hopefully something productive will come from this. I just wish she had been more careful with me. I hope i can talk tomorrow without shutting down, and I hope that this is a repairable disruption. I'm scared to be vulnerable again though- I fear I will do something else wrong and she'll call me out again. Maybe I'm not supposed to be comfortable with her... I don't know. Right now I'm not even sure i want to risk being close to her anymore... it didn't really serve me all that well. I think i might ask for a referral tomorrow.

-CT

Hi CT

I hope you are feeling a bit better. Your post made me hurt too...and I do understand your pain.

I did have a little bit of a different "take" on the actions of your T. I think she wanted to make sure she was talking to your adult self and asked you to sit up to facilitate that interaction. Sometimes laying down with your T is seen as seductive and perhaps she is feeling somewhat seduced by you and wanted to interrupt that process? I think she could have explained this to you....but you know how T's are. They don't want to "show" you or illustrate anything to you...they want you to discover that "insight" into yourself. Ya know?
Laying down does put you in a vulnerable position but not necessarily in a good way. It is possible, that she was trying to be protective by asking you to sit up.

Anyway...it was just another thought on what might have been happening in your session. Good luck with your session tomorrow. Ask her what her intention was....she may not give you the answer...but she cannot stop you from asking the question....eh?

SD

Hi CT,
Everyone's right - i am not suprised you're confused and hurt by what your T said and did. How can she just all of a sudden decide you can't lay on the couch and expect you to be ok with that? It's something that should have been discussed and maybe you could have slowly started to sit up more, etc. But she can't just snap her fingers and expect you to do what you're told... She doesn't have that right. Feeling safe in therapy is essential to getting anywhere and she has to know that... If she had concerns she should have brought them up and worked through the reasons you need to be in that position, and provide an alternative way for you to feel safe.

quote:

I guess another thing is that is seemed so flippant-- and like I had NO choice or say in the matter whatsoever. She decided it and that was it... I mean, she listened to my protests and all but her mind was made up and I feel like I'm just supposed to get over it.

Yeah i hate that. They pull out the whole "I am the professional here" and it comes out of nowhere!!! It's like they got up that day and decided ok, i need to change this, this, this with these people and *wham* you're like where did that come from!?

Can you talk to her about why you need to feel safe. I understand her desire to talk to you while you are sitting up but your feelings of security have to come before her desire to connect. My T knows if I need to talk to her about something hard, i won't make eye contact the whole time, even when she is responding. If she tried to force eye contact i'd shut down. Simple as that.

I hope today is a better session and you can work through some of these feelings.

LTF

CT,
You and I have discussed this before, so I didn't mention it before, but now, I want to. I lay down the entire session for all of my sessions. When I walk in for my session, my T has a pillow and blanket and stuffed animal on the ground for me, because she knows that that's where I want to be. Most of the time, my head is covered by my jacket. I'm also often sort of scrunched up under a chair. My T has always said that it doesn't bother her. She has never tried to get me to be in any other position. In fact, she never even comments on it unless I do first. That's why it's so hard for me to get how why your T did/said this to you. I've grown so much, and experienced so much healing, and none of it was done sitting in a chair across from my T looking into her face.

I hope that you're able to work it out with her.

catgirl

Hi all... Thanks SD and CG for you support and opinions. It's really nice to have a place to find objective ideas and thoughts!

I had my extra session with my t yesterday and it went really well. Difficult... but productive. I managed not to shut down... for the most part... and we talked through a lot of stuff. I don't want to give a blow-by-blow, but i would like to share how it went.

First thing i think i should mention is that i haven't always laid down in my sessions (which, CG, i think is one of the main differences between what you describe doing with your t and what i have been doing... am i correct in assuming you have almost always laid down in your sessions regardless of the topic?). It's something for me that really came about when we started addressing and tapping into some very deep, childlike emotions and areas in me. Well, when my t said she thought this was regressive, i thought she meant in the context of this somehow undoing the progress i have been making... that I was regressing. However, when we were talking yesterday, she said something about me being an adult and i said "i don't wanna be a grown up... i wanna be a kid and get all the stuff i was supposed to get then from you." She said "i know that is what you want and i understand that. However, we can't go back and redo your childhood, but we can have corrective experiences throughout our relationship." At that moment i realized what she meant by regressive... that by laying down i was trying become/act childlike to redo/reinact how things were for me as a child. What she continued to explain, and what "In Session" talks about at some point, is that if i try to become a child again with her, i am extremely vulnerable- and i am only safe as long as she decides not to take advantage of/exploit me. Plus, wanting her to treat me as a child discredits all of the experiences i have had and knowledge i have gained as an adult... it isn't a wholistic, appropriate approach. So it is in this context that she doesn't want my safety to depend so heavily on her and her actions... not that i am not supposed to be safe with her which is what it felt like the other day.

The other thing about this whole scenario that took place was that i hate being noticed and called out for a behavior... in my head i am supposed to pick up on something i am doing "wrong" ahead of time and adjust before someone ever has to say anything. When i was a kid, if my behavior ever had to be corrected, it meant that something was seriously f***ed up. Needless to say, i felt bad and stupid and awful and ashamed when she had to say something to me about my behavior. She asked how i thought she should bring things like this to my attention and i told her that she should write me a note and/or hint around it like i'm used to people doing (mind you i said this half-joking because i am aware that it is dysfunctional). She told me that she will never operate with me like that- in indirect, passive ways. She said she is going to be direct with me and that her being direct doesn't mean what it feels like to me... that nothing has changed and she doesn't think i am bad or stupid because she had to ask me to change something. I told her that i feel like i should have been able to adjust before she had to say anything... essentially that i should have the answer before her... and she said then why are you here? (to which she quickly added "and i am not saying that to be confrontational and get you to quit therapy!... hehe she knows me TOO well).

Another thing i asked her was "if i can't lay down, how am i supposed to hide from you?" She said "i don't want you to hide" to which i said, "well duh, but i want to!" She then suprised me by saying "no... you don't really want to. you feel like you need to but from what you tell me, you don't want to. And I'm not going to willingly reinforce your belief that you have to hide when to talk to me. It isn't true." Wow... still swallowing that one. She also asked me something else that i am still digesting... she asked if i am at all struck by the fact that all the ways in which i say are my attempts to connect with her seem to accomplish the opposite..." food for thought...

thanks for listening... sorry i wrote a book.

-CT

Since the session detailed above, I haven't been in a very good place. Things have been very inconsistent and all over the place for me. There is a big wall up between me and my t... barely talked at all in my last session... and i hate feeling so far away from her. Plus, I've been vascillating between loving her and hating her... at each extreme.

I have written to her some the past few days and she called yesterday and left me a really nice message that helped me not to feel so rejected about the whole "laying down" business... basically she said that she thinks we should talk about how the younger, less developed parts of me can still get their needs met while i function as an adult (sitting up, talking to her like i do when we talk about other things).......... well, that just seems like an oxymoron to me. To me, functioning as an adult has always meant disregarding and ignoring the childish needs and wants and emotions I still have and that I should be independent/self-sufficient... I guess I'm just confused about this whole thing. How do I access the more vulnerable parts of me without reverting to the childlike mindset (hence the laying down)? I know she doesn't want me trying to relive/recreate the situation... but I don't know how to do this without going there... I can't even fathom it. And what do the needs of a figurative emotional five year old look like, anyway? How do we meet those needs without feeling like a little kid? Or how do I function as an adult and feel the things the little girl in me feels? Any thoughts here? Am I making this too hard?

-CT

Hi CT

quote:

functioning as an adult has always meant disregarding and ignoring the childish needs and wants and emotions I still have and that I should be independent/self-sufficient... I guess I'm just confused about this whole thing. How do I access the more vulnerable parts of me without reverting to the childlike mindset (hence the laying down)? I know she doesn't want me trying to relive/recreate the situation... but I don't know how to do this without going there... I can't even fathom it. And what do the needs of a figurative emotional five year old look like, anyway? How do we meet those needs without feeling like a little kid? Or how do I function as an adult and feel the things the little girl in me feels?

Holy, this is SO one of my dilemmas. I'm going to be watching this thread to see if I can learn the answers to your questions too. I find it so frustrating that I can't get 'there' and I think that the frustration I feel in regards to it is something that causes great hurt for me, and is damaging my progress, such as it is.
I feel all the time that I'm making this harder than it has to be, but I just don't 'get' it! either.

I hope that someone has some good insight for you

Holly

Thanks for the response Holly. I hate not understanding and feeling like I'm going in circles.

HB-

quote:

CT i completely missed your post on the 16th May and am sorry i did not reply so at least you knew you were not alone. It was such a huge session and i can only imagine what impact it has had on you.

Thanks HB. I know everyone is really busy these days, but it is nice to know I'm not alone. I always appreciate your (and everyone's for that matter) responses.

quote:

what happened is that i started to identify more with the adult part of me than with the child.

This seems SO hard for me to even think about. For so long I was a kid identifying as an adult... and I still feel like that sometimes... like I'm just pretending to be an adult. It's just that now, I'm acknowledging the kid part of me for the first time ever. And I want to be a kid. I want to be young and dependent on my t. I don't want to be an adult at all. It just feels so bad. Before you could identify with your adult part, did you go through a time where you didn't want to function as an adult?

quote:

It is holding those needs gently and kindly instead of denying and rejecting such an important part of yourself. It is opening up to feeling and yet remembering that there is so much more to you today than then when you were tiny.

I understand what you're saying here, and I agree with you wholeheartedly, but part of me thinks this is really backwards... that I have resented and ignored my little girls needs... ever since I was a little girl and could have actually done something about them... and now, I can't go back and recreate/relive/redo them, but I'm supposed to be nice and gentle with them????? That's really unnatural... I feel like since I can't do anything about them, I should just ignore them... it shouldn't matter because I'm not a kid and I can't get those kid needs met.

quote:

the confusion is such an amazing sign of growth and hope.

I wish it felt like it now... I feel so stupid and dense, but thanks for you encouragement.

-CT

I've been doing some thinking and writing since my last post... I'm really angry. I don’t understand this shit anymore… and I don’t understand why I am supposed to tap into this childish shit just to look at it and long for it but not indulge in it. It’s like torture… like my t's saying:

“hey, you, dysfunctional pseudo adult… yeah, you with the thousands of dollars to blow on several years worth of weekly appointments… take a long hard look at this really f***ing big thing you want… this childhood you have always wanted-deep down- but don’t touch it… it wasn’t meant for you. You can’t have it and you will never get it but I really just want you to know first-hand what you are missing... cause it makes for good entertainment… Seriously, go ahead- see it and know it but don’t go there and experience it… learn to express your want for it but don’t hope you’ll ever get it and don’t try to get it from me… I don’t want to go there with you... mmmhmmm, yeah... oh, our time’s up for today”

-CT

CT,

I want to say something encouraging to you, but this whole thing goes against my experience. In an earlier post, you asked if I've always laid down in therapy. Yes, since about the 4th visit or so. In doing so, I am fully accessing my child self. Somehow, when I walk in to her office, a feeling hits me. Sometimes, I'm able to hang on for about 5 minutes or so, then the feeling hits me. Shame or something. I go under my jacket and the blanket, and I don't come back out. I don't care if she told me to, I wouldn't be able to come out. She has so been able to meet me where I am. Just the other day, I was commenting on how I was able to stay "out" for about 10 minutes, then she asked a question that brought me to my child state, and I "went under" (went under my jacket). She asked, "Are you need to access your child?" I said "I don't know." She asked, "Are you wanting to feel like an adult?" Anyway, I'm saying this to say that she understands why I need to go under. She doesn't ask me to stay out. If she did, the shame would be so big that I'd literally RUN out of there.

The adult thing. . . Somehow, even though I access my child in therapy, I'm growing up outside of therapy. I'm 37, and I'm finally beginning to feel and act like an adult. I know what you meant by saying that you felt like you were pretending to be an adult. I'm no longer pretending! It has to do with the attachment that I have with my therapist, and the security that I'm experiencing for the first time in my life. This attachment has developed, because she is capable of meeting me where I am. I lay down, cover up, and she rubs my back as if I'm a child EVERY TIME that I see her, and still I'm growing up, I'm learning who I am, and I'm learning to like that person.

So, I don't quite understand your therapist's point of view, because it is the opposite of my experience. I'm not sure if I'm the right person to be talking to you, because it's hard for me to be objective on this one.

I think about your issues that your going through with your T a lot. How are things now? Did you see her yet this week?

catgirl