I'm curious about your living space. Do you think it reflects your current state of mind? Is it messy, cluttered and confused like your brain or is it super tidy and clean. If it is super tidy and clean do you think that is a reflection of your mental state as well?

My house is a disaster much of the time. I need to go through and get rid of a ton of stuff. Don't worry, it isn't anything like those shows you see on TV like hoarders or the like. It's just messy. No matter how much I can clean, I can't keep up. I have 3 kids and a husband and I have been terrible at making my kids take responsibility for themselves and clean up. I tell them to do it, but I don't hold them accountable so guess what? They don't do it.

Anyway, I think my house looks exactly like I feel most of the time. Cluttered, disorganized, messy, can't find anything and unhappy.

The funny thing is that I have several parts that are quite meticulous and very organized. I have the skills to do it, but can't seem to get enough time and those parts around long enough to get it all done!

What about you?

Hi STRM,

This is a very current issue for me at the moment. I'm a total mess in the house - don't keep routines, don't pick up after myself, forget the housework more often than I remember it. Lucky I don't have kids. And in fact, this is one of the things that scares me about having kids - I've no idea how I would manage it.

Once in a while I get it together and get into some routines, but it's amazing how alien this is to me. It's like I let myself off the hook *all the time*. But when I *do* get it together - I find myself more peaceful inside, my thoughts clearer, I'm happier with myself, I'm able to create more, my husband is more peaceful....

I used the Flylady system for a while a couple of times and found it really worked for me; then I slipped out of it. Just recently I felt ready to start again, and I downloaded an application called 'homeroutines' to my i-phone (I'm sorry about the product placement - but it could be helpful to anyone else who has that type of phone). It's been brilliant - breaking down the tasks into little routines for each day, and sending reminders to start the routines. It doesn't take long to do each one.

But I'm finding once again that I'm slipping out of it. This thread is a good reminder. I don't know why I find it so hard to keep up. It's like - I think it would be 'looking after myself' to just let things slide, it's how I give myself sympathy, but it just makes everything feel worse! I notice if I don't do the little routines, I'm so much more likely to just veg out, but when i do them I get shaken out of my vegetative state, and often will continue to do things....

Interesting to think about!!

Love,
Jones

DF: No, not a freak at all! I think we are similar in our ways of handling the cleaning. My issue is that even when I have an anxiety day and clean, my house is too big to finish all in one day so by the time I hit another anxiety patch the entire thing is messy again!

Jones:I will check out that app! Thanks for the tip. I have done Flylady as well, but I then feel immense guilt when I don't keep up with it. You know? It ends up being another thing I beat myself up about, but then I guess my house would at least be clean. I'm probably going to beat myself up about something anyway so it may as well be that. It helps to know that I'm not the only one who struggles with this so thank you!

STRM
This is an interesting one for me. Historically, I've been such a bad housekeeper that I call myself "Domestically challenged." One of the more interesting things about healing is that it's definitely been reflected in my home. It's still not even close to perfect, but it's not unusual now for me to have the laundry caught up (I used to have a laundry pile that could eat Chicago) but it's too the point when our schedule isn't insane, that I might be willing to let someone in the door who showed up unexpectedly.

I've definitely noticed the difference through this refuel outage. The house always goes to hell but this time not only was my husband working insane hours, I've been working 10-11 hour days and the house, while being terribly dirty and in desperate need of a good cleaning, is not all chaotic and the laundry is all caught up. I started to get upset about the house about a week ago and my daughter looked at me and said "Mom, it's the outage and we can still see the counter!" It was a helpful reminder that things have gotten better.

But I'll never have a perfectly neat, squeaky clean home and here's why. My mother was a stay at home mom until I was 11 and my parents divorced and she cleaned the house from top to bottom every day. You could have eaten off our floors and drank from our toilets the place was so clean. Yet there were such horrible things going on in that house. So when a place is perfect and nothing is ever out of place, I (unfairly I'm sure) start looking around for the "mess" that's being covered up. I will always need a certain amount of clutter to feel safe.

And Jones, I totally relate, my getting the housework under control is a stop and start thing.

AG

It's nice for me to know I'm not alone too - and AG, you're giving me hope that I might not always be so bad about this!

STRM, you point out how close it is to your mental state... for me very much so too. Some part of me believes that's the 'real me'. Dirty, disorganized, kind of disgusting, fundamentally useless and dysfunctional but occasionally 'pretending' for outside view. Amazed that anyone could be fooled that I'm a 'real person', when I don't get it together to do the basic stuff, like daily dishes, that most others just seem to manage.

Wow, there's a bit of a therapeutic goldmine here!!

How I *want* to be, though, is just... peaceful. To have the routines down so that they are just quiet time, not rushed or anxious, just part of the rhythm of life, when my mind clears and I think ahead easily to whatever is coming next....

xxx

It really is nice to know I am not alone as well. My house tends to be just clean enough but never *really* clean. My floors are always pretty gross, bathrooms do not get cleaned enough, the clutter takes over at times. In the past few months, I began an initiative to clean out my whole house, taking on one room at a time. I threw a ton of stuff away, donated a ton, and cleaned out my filing cabinet that has been needing attention for the past...well...many years! I am disorganized by nature I think and sometimes have a lot of trouble trying to literally figure out a system to organize things effectively. (Another reason to question my intelligence. ) I actually succeeded in cleaning out my house and somewhat organizing so at least I know where everything is. I have come a long way and I definitely feel much clearer and more peaceful because of it. I find it impossible to think in clutter, so I wonder why I let it happen sometimes.

Jones, I can really relate to what you said about feeling like the "real you" is pretty inadequate and "disgusting" and like an imposter prentending to have it together. *And* if *I* ever manage to forget my innate grossness, my H is there to remind me that I have neglected the laundry again...."people do not live this way!"

sea

Well, if messiness is any reflection of our internal worlds, then my roommates have some serious problems.

I live in an apartment with two other roommates, although one of them is never there. We coexist but don't really do anything (it was a last minute thing). Anyway, most everything of mine stays in my room so it's a little bit of a tight fit and I'm not great at keeping it clean. It feels nice when it's clean, though. I think it makes me feel normal, like I don't have any problems. I'm just not good at keeping it that way.

I really think low of myself when everything is so messy. I guess I feel like it validates all of the bad things about me...physical proof of what normally can't be seen.

Mine is actually changing, it's quite interesting. I'm still a very disorganized and messy (but clean!) person, but I'm starting to clean up way more often.
Something that's always on my mind is that I have too much stuff. I don't think I do, rationally I don't think I do. I've gone through everything I own multiple times in the past couple of months and just threw half of it away but I still feel like it's too much. I'd like to put it all in maybe 5 boxes and that's it. I'm not sure that is a good thing.

Anyway, I wish it would represent my state of mind because it would mean I'd get a grip but I don't think THAT is happening so... maybe I'm growing up
(with that I'm not saying that messy people are not grown up or mature but there's a certain messy-ness that only children/teenagers seem to have)

AG: My mom worked outside the home and constantly bitched about the house. She would leave lists of chores for me to do and it would take me all day to complete them. Hmmm, maybe there is something to that and especially why I have trouble with FlyLady telling me what to do. My mother (sounds similar to your situation) was big into appearances and making sure everything looked perfect on the outside when the reality was that the inside was torture. It sounds like you have a nice balance now. That is what I'm hoping to reach as well.

Jones: Yes, I relate very much to what you said. I do a pretty decent job of being an imposter out in the real world, but if someone were to come over and see how messy my house is it feels like I'd be inviting them into my inner world and they would see just how horrible I am and all of my secrets would be out.

DF: It sounds like your growing up was stressful with the cleaning situation. I'm sorry you went through that.
My house really isn't that big. It is nice, but nothing special around here. We have 4 bedrooms and 2.5 baths and I have just over 3000 finished square feet to clean. The mess is all spread out which makes it hard, especially when I have 4 other people messing things up right behind me.

Sea (I like that!): It sounds like you've done some great work in this area!! That is exactly what I need to do. I need to get rid of more stuff so that it is easier to keep everything else clean. I'm sorry you get reminders from your H. I do too at times and then he'll say he's just kidding. Ya right.

Kashley: Yes, I too feel as if the messiness validates the bad things and what normally can't be seen. I laughed at your roommate comment. Too funny!

PF: Good for you! It sounds like you are making real progress.

PF,

Well, I've done several different ones. I've used FlyLady, Motivated Moms, etc. FlyLady I feel like a failure right from the start because I don't like to put my shoes on every morning and she pretty much demands it. She gives lists of daily things and then also works deeper in a zone each week. Motivated Moms is a daily list that you can print out and it does daily maintenance and then also pulls in tasks that often get ignored like cleaning out the fridge, changing furnace filter etc.

My problem is if there are 10 things on the list and I only do 8 then depending on who is around I will feel like a failure because I didn't do the other 2. Ya know?

Jones: I got the app! Like it so far! Thank you.

(((((STRM))))) I could just repeat what you said. I know how I'd like it to be, but I can't seem to keep it that way. Part of it is, I get things tidied up so I can stand it, then my H or kids mess it up...don't pick up...and I don't hold them accountable and resentment builds. And I absolutely hate looking at the mess...it's like visual "noise" and it hurts...makes it very uncomfortable to live it psychologically speaking...sometimes I feel like I've got nowhere to hide and nowhere to run...no place that is mine...especially as my H and I don't really share a room anymore and there are no other rooms...I hate "our" room, not only because it's messy, but because it's in the darkest corner of the house. In general, I feel instantly tense and resentful as soon as I walk in our house because there is nowhere to go that feels good.

Several of you mentioned how your moms were...my mom was always cleaning too...but I couldn't have cared less...and many times her attitude about it was harmful to us...so yes, cleanliness isn't everything and if extreme can definitely trigger suspicion. BUT I do wish I could get a handle on training my children and husband to pick up after themselves in a positive way so that my resentment didn't build. I have asked repeatedly and told them how I feel and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Blowing up at them doesn't help either but that only happens after my asking nicely is ignored or forgotten several times. And some of it is really obvious...like throw away your used q-tips, for heaven's sake. I don't particularly enjoy finding them in various places and throwing them away for you. And I realize there will be times that using the toilet will result in a mess...but could you be considerate and clean it up, so I don't have to? I mean, really. That is what I do when it's me, so you'd think...especially from a man who I would hope wants me to find him sexually attractive...stuff like that makes my stomach turn.

Somewhere on this forum someone (maybe even you STRM?) asked if we had our own room, what would it be like? I'd want a southwest facing room to catch the late afternoon sun...which would make it glow in a really warm way...and then plants, books, lovely artwork on the walls, espresso maker, kitchenette on the side for snacks, and really comfy chairs so I could invite friends and we could just hang together. Tall ceilings, big windows, polished hardwood floors with sumptuous throw rugs we could sink our bare feet into...upper story level...all light and air and peace...that would be wonderful. Someplace safe and beautiful to talk about fun things or hard things or nothing at all. Just a place to BE.

Thanks for posting about this...this is something that bothers me quite frequently and it feels good to talk about it with people who get it. I hope I didn't say anything too obnoxious.

SG

Wow, count me in here...I relate to everyone's struggles.

SG- my H's particular penchant is to leave his dental floss on the floor or anywhere else it happens to get dropped. yuck. and even other even grosser things. I think I get so saddened by his slobbyness because it feels like he will only be happy with me if I am successful in cleaning up after him, keeping meals made- and, above all, being happy about it and never mentioning it or complaining. If I am nice about asking he just laughs.

Something about this setup is so distressing to me that I tend to completely give up on housework, then, make a few half-hearted attemtps at it, then let is all slide again. In fact I've adopted most of his habits of just leaving things wherever they happen to land, because what's the use, no matter how hard I work it will all be disgusting again a few hours later, unless I literally follow everyone around and do what they left for me to do, plus my own. Forget about fighting with my kids. They can only do it if I help them, which is fine, but...that's all I would do.

Asking- even asking really nicely- doesn't work, my requests get nodded to and assented to and then completely ignored by him. When I get mad about it- I get emotionally punished with comments about my stuff that is much much worse, and totally indefensible. I don't know the way out of this. I would like to have a reasonably clean and peaceful home. I'm so unhappy about it.

SG- you didn't anything in the least obnoxious! It does feel good to talk about it. I hate the deep disrespect that is inherent in leaving something gross for someone else to clean for you. The attitude of course is, if it bothers you then you do it..cause my crap doesn't bother me. It's so unloving and it really triggers my anger, which I have such a hard time controlling in these situations, and have given up in favor of complete apathy. Sorry to be a downer all the time.

BB

(((((((Beebs))))))) So, so sorry you are dealing with this too. And so sorry you've given up, but I know how you feel...I could relate to every thing you said. And I can really relate to the anger at the disrespect. I have absolutely NO qualms about cleaning up after someone who is truly sick, no matter how intrinically unpleasant it is...I'm willing to do it for someone who is incapacitated, and I can deal with that. But that's not at all what I'm dealing with most of the time. But yeah, what do you do, if it doesn't bother them?

Okay, that's it. Let's run away. Let's leave them all behind. I'm coming to get you and we're running away in true Tuwanda fashion. They can all stay behind and wallow in their Q-tips and dental floss and dirty underwear and used tissues and God only knows what else. Let's make a space of our own.

Gentle hugs to you Beebers...I'm sorry. And stop that, you're not a "downer all the time". It sucks to live in a space like this. I'm glad we can both be heard somewhere. Maybe we'll discover a solution here. But at least we can vent.

Love,
SG

Chiming in late here as I'm just now feeling up to a little more participation (sorry).

My space is somewhere in the middle. It is extremely clean and organized compared to what I grew up in, but compared to my standards of what it should be, it is messy. I don't get around to the stuff like dusting, washing windows, deep cleaning bathrooms anywhere near as often as I should. Everything has a spot that makes sense, but stuff piles up on shelves and tables, which I periodically need to clean off. I reorganize at least twice a year and do big cleans. I really don't have problem getting rid of stuff, even stuff that some people would find too sentimental to get rid of. Even though I do keep sentimental stuff, I keep it to a minimum...the most important stuff. I actually have a harder time getting rid of stuff that might be useful again (and gifts, which I feel "obligated" to keep, even if I didn't want them). Overall, I have a pretty easy time tossing stuff if there gets to be too much. I keep things "straightened up" but not too clean, because with two toddlers (mine and my client's) and an infant and two cats around...there really isn't a point in doing so.

My home growing up was very different. My mom became a borderline hoarder sometime around junior high. She started collecting antique furniture that she couldn't afford. She collected them until they covered pretty much all the walls (and windows, which she liked as she slept days and worked nights). Then, she would replace some that she didn't like anymore, or move the old ones into the garage, or the attic. Then she started placing them in the middle of rooms to divide them. She always has so many people living there that people are either sharing rooms or sleeping in rooms they shouldn't be. Right now, my oldest sister (just moved out of my living room) is sleeping in the dining room. My mom sleeps in the living room on the couch. My little brother has the attic. His dad has a bedroom next to the attic (even though him and my mom split up about a dozen years ago). My little sisters each have their own room. My mom would fill all of her new furniture with outfits for her gigs (professional pianist/singer). Many of them still have tags on them from years of not being used. She collects bins and baskets and fills them with things she has obtained, used maybe once or twice, and cannot get rid of even though she has replaced them with newer versions. She loves animals. She collects them and then doesn't care for them properly. There is often animal hair all over the home. The dishes that get washed still have chunks of food stuck to them. It wasn't this way when I was very young, but my dad was around more then. All the laundry just gets thrown on the garage floor, then washed and dried in loads so big that they don't really get properly cleaned. Then, they just sit in laundry baskets until people fish out their stuff. I understand why. She works nights, sleeps days, doesn't have time for laundry. I did my own at a very young age, so I could be sure it was properly washed and not completely wrinkled (though that doesn't bother me too much). Once a year, because my mom receives rental assistance, the authorities would come inspect the house, so it would be like slave labor to get the place clean and hide all the stuff she had been buying. I always kept my room pretty clean when I lived there, but not obsessively so, just like I am now.

I don't know if any of this actually says something about my mental state, though. It was just my reaction to how I grew up. I don't like to "keep" stuff unnecessarily. I need my personal space that is just for me (i.e. my kid's stuff does NOT belong in my bedroom). I don't like to buy things just because they look nice unless I'm 100% sure they will have a lasting function. I am VERY picky about how my dishes and laundry are done, and even though I hate doing them, I will make sure that I am the one to do them if possible, so they are up to standard. I abhor deep cleaning, because it reminds me of "inspection" weeks.

My house is messy, not dirty (well i hate to think what it looks behind the cooker lol)It don't help that i work 4 nights a week. I really dont mean to be messy, i dont like a messy house but i never seem to keep up with it all. I have 3 young men in the house and me so quess who has to do the housework! lol My boys are not too bad, they will help but I remember my eldest son saying to me, mum i look around at the mess and think why bother coz its only going to get messy again.

But! i have big plans, the house is going to be redocorated from top to bottom, new carpets, new bathroom etc so im getting a huge skip and dumping everything that i dont use. Once its done I AM GOING TO KEEP IT LOOKING NICE and god help my boys if they ruin anything lol

Hev