Many years ago, I had a T whose father was a major movie icon (you would recognise and adore him)(her Mom was actually a movie star, too). When I first went into therapy with her, I didn't know, but eventually I was doing a little googling and found out. It wasn't difficult to discover, and it was apparently fairly well known.....silly me for taking so long to figure it out.

After I found out, I was dumbfounded, and unable to contain myself. I was sooooooooo mature (NOT) when I mentioned it to her - I'm sure I sounded like a star-struck groupie. She just smiled, and said some people know, some don't....but she was comfortable with what people knew, and there really wasn't much she could do about it. I did become somewhat fascinated with her. To make matters worse, she did therapy out of her home. This invited all sorts of screwy boundary issues. I met the dogs and cats, got to ogle at some home furnishings (hmmmmm interesting), on and on. This made the work I had to do HARDER because in addition I had to reign that all in and keep it from interfering with why I was there. She was indeed fascinating, somewhat eccentric, expensive and unusual style of dressing and at least 700 pairs of shoes (I tended to stare at her feet when I didn't want to make eye contact).

When I thought about it,and even asked about it --- if I thought I had issues with my father, I could only imagine how difficult it was for her. She shared just enough to let me know that the fundamental underlying relationships are tough for all of us for all kinds of reasons.

Back to Googling/Facebook issues. What is out there for Google to find is essentially public information. And people who dabble in social networking sites do so at their own risk; she also can't control what her extended family chooses to engage in. I would be astonished if you T terminated you for natural curiosity that is enabled by the internet.....so easy and tempting.

Just my 2 cents...........
-hope

CT, thank you so much for updating us! I've been thinking about you all day and wondering how it went.

I still maintain that you were highly courageous, no matter what her response was. Especially to walk back in to her office and keep going. That's amazing and I hope at some point you can see how brave you were to do that! Not because you did anything terribly wrong (in my opinion), but because you believed you did and were willing to be honest to set it right, no matter what the consequences. I'm happy for you that she wasn't shocked and is willing to look at why you looked so you can continue therapy with her. This looks like it might be a springboard to a deeper healing for you.

I've been reading (again), this time The Road Less Traveled by M. Scott Peck, M.D. The following excerpts are taken from that book. They give me a lot of encouragement regarding honesty in my own therapy, especially scary honesty like the kind you just successfully faced. I hope you can take some encouragement from them, too.

(from p. 52)
"A life of total dedication to the truth also means a life of willingness to be personally challenged. The only way that we can be certain that our map of reality is valid is to expose it to the criticism and challenge of other map-makers."

(from p. 53)
"No act is more unnatural, and hence more human, than the act of entering psychotherapy. For by this act we deliberately lay ourselves open to the deepest challenge from another human being, and even pay the other for the service of scrutiny and discernment."

(from p. 53)
"Entering psychotherapy is an act of the greatest courage. The primary reason people do not undergo psychotherapy is not that they lack the money but that they lack the courage."

(from p. 63, on the topic of honesty)
"All this might seem like an extraordinary task, impossible to ever perfectly complete, a chronic and never-ending burden, a real drag. And it is indeed a never-ending burden of self-discipline, which is why most people opt for a life of very limited honesty and openness and relative closedness, hiding themselves and their maps from the world. It is easier that way. Yet the rewards of the difficult life of honesty and dedication to the truth are more than commensurate with the demands. By virtue of the fact that their maps are continually being challenged, open people are continually growing people. Through their openness they can establish and maintain intimate relationships far more effectively than more closed people. Because they never speak falsely they can be secure and proud in the knowledge that they have done nothing to contribute to the confusion of the world, but have served as sources of illumination and clarification. Finally, they are totally free to be. They are not burdened by any need to hide. They do not have to slink around in the shadows. They do not have to construct new lies to hide old ones. They need waste no effort covering tracks or maintaining disguises. And ultimately they find that the energy required for the self-discipline of honesty is far less than the energy required for secretiveness. The more honest one is, the easier it is to continue being honest, just as the more lies one has told, the more necessary it is to lie again. By their openness, people dedicated to the truth live in the open, and through the exercise of their courage to live in the open, they become free from fear."

So by "planting" courage, we "grow" freedom from fear. That's my favorite part.

SG

Wow, Tuesday@11 and Hope... and everyone for that matter, thanks so much for telling me about your experiences. It means SO much to know that I'm not alone... and that if I AM a freak, I'm at least in good company!!

SG, thanks for sharing the quotes. I'll definitely be reading those over and over.

HB, thanks for starting my list. I'm still unsure of my "okayness" but I think I might be near the part where I realize it's okay to have needs.

I'd like to break down my session for you all (and for me)... please bear with me because it's going to be a little ramble-y. I just want to get it all out there so I don't forget.

When she called me back from the waiting room, she asked how I was doing. I said "shitty. how bout you?" to which she replied "I'm doing pretty good." Right off the bat from there I told her that this was going to be my last session. She said ok, but asked what was going on. I explained to her that I had it all written out, but she said she'd rather hear about it. I told her I'd REALLY prefer she read my letter, but she said, "can I guess what's going on?"- What the efff is that? This was NOT going how I planned it!- I told her yes, she could guess, cuz what else could I say? She said that she thought I was upset because I want her to be a perfect mother figure that she will never be and yadda yadda yadda. I told her that it really had more to do with something I had done rather than something that was wrong with her- then I asked her to just please read the letter. She said fine, she'd read the letter but she wanted to talk about it too.

After she read the letter, I asked her for the letter back and told her that I needed to leave. She said I didn't need to and that we should talk and I told her I didn't think I was interested in that. I just walked out, didn't say bye or anything. Like I said earlier, I made it to the foyer of the building and sat down on a bench out there. It was the strangest experience... part of me was saying GO, LEAVE, GET OUT NOW! But there was this other part of me- like a stubborn child me- that sat down and said I'M NOT GOING OUT THAT DOOR, TURN AROUND (with arms folded firmly across chest, mind you!). I really can't explain it better than that. After sitting there for a bit, I finally went back down the hall to my t's office. I walked in and just stood in the waiting area until she came out. She said, "so, do you wanna talk?" I told her I wasn't sure but all I knew was that I was still here. After a minute or two of silence, she asked what was going through my head and I told her "just that I'm really nauseous." She goes, "maybe that's your body's way of saying that you're about to make a big mistake." To that, I walked back into her office and sat down.

From that point, I really lose all chronological order of events. I can only really recall things that were said, so this is going to be a bit jumbled. I remember her saying that she "wasn't thrilled" that I researched her family so extensively, but that she wasn't shocked either. She said that all that information is out there and that I probably managed to hurt myself more than I hurt her or her family. She did also say that she and her family don't hide and that she knows her family members can take care of themselves. She said that she wished I hadn't gathered all the information I had, but mostly because of what it does to me and the work we are doing- how we keep coming back to this same crossroads where I refuse to accept that I have everything I need within me (ummm gulp?). At one point she asked me if I had considered that I was sabatoging myself. I hadn't considered it and obviously, I wasn't doing it intentionally. She also asked if I was testing her... trying to see if I could finally do something that would make her reject me. Certainly that wasn't the goal or anything... i just knew in my head that I had finally screwed up enough to make her leave me. i wasn't TRYING to play games or be manipulative.

Then she went on about how she doesn't reject me and she won't reject me even for the reason's that society and/or other people might reject me for. She even went so far as to suggest that I may be on a "rejection tear" lately; rejecting other people or making them reject me before they have the chance to reject me themselves. Then she said she knows me and she knows my heart. She said she knows that I'm intelligent and that I genuinely care about other people and this whole thing won't make her reject me or tell me to go away. She followed tha up with "and that doesn't mean you should try to do something bigger that you think might make me reject you!"

I told her that I didn't understand why she was being nice to me and that I didn't know why she wouldn't kick me out. I told her I wanted her to be mad at me and that I really feel like I need to be punished. She said something I didn't really get about how "punishment only reinforces behavior," but i don't really know what she meant by that.

She also talked alot/ asked me alot of questions about why I was looking for stuff on her in the first place. She was kind of guessing about what I might be looking for because I couldn't really offer her any information. All I could say was "it doesn't matter! I shouldn't have done it in the first place." She insisted that is DOES matter and that ALL THAT MATTERS is why I did it, as in what was I looking for, and how it has effected me. Those are the two things she said she wants me to focus on, but i couldn't focus during the session. I think I was still in shock that she was even talking to me. Then I asked her if she was going to tell her husband (and fellow therapist). She said she hadn't even thought about it, but my asking that question makes her think that I am focused on how "bad" i was... that maybe if she won't get mad, maybe he will. I honestly just want to know if she's going to tell him because I'm afraid of him already (TOTAL PROJECTION, TRANSFERENCE! I've never even said hi to the man) and I have this strange, impending feeling that he's going to threaten me or something.

Oh, she also said that the reason I'm in therapy in the first place is because I want to work on boundary issues such as this, and that if I don't look at what I'm doing and why I'm doing it then it will never change. I said "can't we just chalk it up to me being stupid and act like it never happened?" She said, "no, that would pretty much ensure that you WILL repeat this over and over. Plus, i hate the word stupid, it's like a four letter word to me!" I found that hysterical because she winces when I say 'stupid' but not when I say 'fuck'... lol.

Toward the end of the session she asked if I am willing to look at why I felt so compelled to get information about her and if I am am willing to talk about how I've been effected by the things I've read/seen- she also said that this is the best way of making reparations. I said maybe and she said "c'mon, don't let yourself get away with that, yes or no?" I said yes and she said "good, I'll see you next week then."

That was pretty much it. My head is still swirling because there is so much I want to tell her. Every answer seems to lead to another question, but all in all, I'm glad she's still my t. I don't know WHY she still is, but she is. Btw, she mentioned something about how I "don't trust" which confuses me because I don't see myself that way, but I'll have to add that to the things I want to ask her about next week. She also said something about me making my therapy too much about her... and I need clarification on that too.

Oh, one last thing- I told her that if I were her, I would have sent me packing immediately. Know what she said? "I'm glad you're not me then." I have no clue why she is so nice and kind to me because I don't deserve it. It kinda feels good though.

Thanks to all of you who have been reading, even those of you who haven't responded, but have still sent good vibes my way.

-CT

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chronically Transferred,

Hey CT.. it's very late and I'm exhausted but I had to respond to your post. Thanks for updating us on what happened. And congratulations for being so brave and honest. You were so great and your T had a near perfect reaction to your revelations. I'm so glad you are going back to her and will discuss this further. She understands that you just wanted to be close to her and that's why you did it. I am so glad you did not walk out totally but then found the strength to go back and talk it out. Be proud of yourself.

We will talk more when I'm more coherent. I hope you are feeling better now. Get some rest.

Hugs
TN

CT, this is a wonderful breakthrough in action.... I love it, and I'm so glad you're writing your way through it for us.

Not only have you made your way through that very difficult holiday break, but you also used the opportunity to get some really core stuff on the table. I know you thought this was going to be the end of the relationship, but in fact what you made for yourself was more space to be your *whole* self in the relationship - to have that seen, understood and accepted. By your T, but more importantly by yourself. At least, it seems to me that you are moving very strongly in that direction - I don't think anything will stop you now. Yay!

Enjoy the good feelings!

Incidentally, I had a weird boundary thing on the weekend - I bumped into my T while I was out. We didn't speak but she gave me a smile. I was just staring, I literally couldn't even comprehend that it was her. Makes me feel anxious about my next session tomorrow - I think she is going to EXPLAIIIIN why she didn't talk to me, and I don't want to hear it! I'd much rather do the pretend-it-didn't-happen thing!

Jones...I had the same thing happen with my T this summer, however, we literally ran into each other, so there was not an option not to acknowledge each other by saying hello. On my next appt. I shared with him how very weird that was to see him outside of the 4 walls of therapy. He told me that because of privacy issues, he will NEVER approach a client or acknowledge a client outside of the therapy office. I see the point, if I were with someone that I didn't want to know etc...I would have to explain who that was and all. He did say that if a client chose to approach him in public or acknowledge him, then he would of course talk with them. I think that is a good boundry!

TN- I understand exhaustion! Thanks for responding even when you were so tired... and thanks for saying I'm brave. I don't really feel it, but thanks.

Jones- Thanks. I'm not sure NOTHING will stop me now, but I do feel like I don't have the excuse of "if she REALLY new...."

Jones and Hals- i can't imagine running into my t outside of the office! Did your t bring it up in session Jones? And Hals, i agree, I think your t has the right idea about how to handle that kind of situation. Still would be awkward though!

Well, i just got a phone call from my t (which I let go to voicemail like always in case it's something I need to hear over and over!). I thought she was calling to tell me that she had a cancellation for tomorrow or something, but instead she said that she was calling because she hasn't had a cancellation. She said that she doesn't have another time for us to meet until next week, but she didn't want the whole week to go by without responding to the letter I wrote (I dropped it off for her the night AFTER my session). She said she really liked the song lyrics I shared with her (see below), and that she was not going to give up on me. She also said that just because she can't see me again this week doesn't mean that I haven't been on her mind, and that she hopes I'm feeling better about the fact that she's NOT going anywhere. Then she said she hopes I'm ready to start school on Monday and that she'll see me on Tuesday.

Have I mentioned that i love my t? I still have NO IDEA why she is so nice and wonderful to me, but I really do love her. I wish I could see her every day for the rest of my life!

Here are the lyrics I shared with her. I've shared them on this board before, but I (again) found them particularly fitting for the situation with my t.

"oh, inconsistent me
crying out for consistency

you said I know that this will hurt
but if I don't break your heart then things will just get worse
If the burden seems too much to bear
Remember
the end will justify the pain it took to get us there

and I'll let it be known
at times I have shown
signs of all my weakness
but somewhere in me
there is strength

and you promise me
that you believe
in time I will defeat this
cause somewhere in me
there is strength"


-CT

CT, that is so wonderfull that you got so close to your T now. It must be such a wonderful feeling! To feel that she cares for you and she is there for you. I'd love to achieve what you've just achieved in your T-relatinship. Isn't it a good begining of the new year?

Funny, you mentioned that your T doesn't like when you say stupid but doesnt mind fuck. That's really nice of her sort of Well, "fuck" is just an expression of your feelings while when you say "stupid" you mean to hurt yourself, so no wonder she prefers "fuck".

Good luck with you therapy

Im glad things worked out for you! I know exactly how you felt. I had to go in not to long ago and admit to my P that I had been googling him almost every day just to see if there was new information on him and that I was friends with both of his daughters on facebook just so i could see pictures of him and know what was going on with him. I had several friends in common with his daughters and they are close to my age so I tried to reason that it was okay. But it wasnt. I admitted it to him and had about 30 minutes before that where I would start to tell him and then go to scared. He knew there was a lot of information I needed to tell him and it was something I was scared of. He kept asking what was I most afraid of and when I said that he would stop seeing me he would say "if you tell me I wont stop seeing you but if you dont tell me I will." Made it a little easier to tell him. He wasnt surprised at what I did and wasnt nearly as bad as things i have done in the past that made him stop seeing me. Back then I did more than just cyber stalking. He did tell me that he didnt care what information I found on him because he wasnt trying to hide anything from me but that he was more concerned at what it would do to me and the reasons behind it. He didnt want me to have to see a picture of him hugging his daughters if that was going to make me jealous or depressed. And it makes sense but I still continue to look at their facebook pages to see if there is any new pictures of him, but I did defriend them. I am going to have to tell him this part sometime, maybe tuesday when I see him. I know he wont be happy but I now also believe him when he says he will be there for me and help me get through the scary stuff and I shouldnt worry about him not seeing me anymore.

Amazon- You're awesome! I was wondering if anyone was going to comment on the stupid vs. fuck business. I think you're right about "stupid" hurting whereas "fuck" is more of an expression of a feeling. I guess that is nice of her!

And yes, it is quite a wonderful feeling to be so close to my t. In your "The therapeutic relationship" thread, it sounds like you are really beginning to grasp the relationship idea. During my very first session- almost 2 years ago- my t told me that the kind of therapy she does depends heavily on our relationship. I nodded along like a fool, thinking "okay, so we have to get along, I can handle that." (Oh, naive therapy-virgin me!!!!) Well, about 8 months ago, however, what she meant finally hit me like a ton of bricks! I wrote about it in my "Disconnected and Distraught" thread (the realization came toward the end of the thread). It was then that I was FINALLY able to understand what she meant. I literally remember thinking OHHHHH this is what she meant!!!!!! Don't get me wrong, I KNEW I'd have to trust her and all that, but I didn't know that it would be so deep... so challenging, so much about the way we relate to one another. It actually has very little whatsoever to do with us "getting along." It's the fact that, getting along or not, our relationship survives. We aren't destroyed and repaired at the whim of my feelings, but we are always in relationship. It is continuous. She can handle my WIDE range of feelings and that doesn't change her opinion of me... and she doesn't even react... she just is and I'm slowly learning to trust that. I've often said that I feel like a bouncy ball and she's just sitting in the room while I bounce around, knocking things over, zooming all over the place. But no matter what, she's always right there being her, and when I finally slow to a roll, and want her to engage with me, she's there, like nothing has happened. It truly is amazing, and I'm glad you see it. I'd hate for you to keep feeling like an insect!

Pippi- Thanks for sharing your experiences. I think you are so brave for telling your P all that you told him. It's hard, but as i've seen these last two weeks, very necessary and worth it.

In fact, I had another session today. Since my last session, I wrote out a lot of detailed stuff for my t about what info I got on her and her family and what I was really looking for and all that. I was really honest even though parts of me wanted to keep hiding. I ended up telling her a whole lot more than I intended today (via a post-session letter)... even about how her daughter's provacative clothing choices that I saw in her pictures, combined with the fact that her daughter looks exactly like my t, retriggered some of my erotic transference stuff. Now, let me just say, I haven't been that terrified to tell my t something in a LONG time! I about died of embarrassment just writing about it. But I had to do it. My t knew I wasn't telling her something and kept poking around at it. I had to tell her! I was so scared that she was going to think I was a pervert or a creep or something, or that she was FINALLY going to terminate me... but when she called me back after she read my letter she was fine... she even giggled some- probably because I was writing in a very evasive, panicky way.

I mean, how could I not be evasive? How do you nicely and respectfully say "your daughter looks just like you, except for the fact that she's younger, and looking at her pics- seeing her cleavage and body- made me think about being intimate withyou. I looked at her boobs like I wish I could stare at yours."??? There is no way to make that sound nice!!!! This is her kid for God's sake!!!! So when I wrote her, i did a lot of beating around the bush and hinting and backtracking. I think that is why she was kinda giggling on the phone (hey, I was impressed, I managed to explain everything and not even say the word breast OR chest. I think I said "she leaves less to the imagination than you"- LOL)!! Umm, btw, I guess for those of you who don't know, I should mention that I am a straight, married woman, but i do have maternal and erotic transference issues with my t!

Anyway, she handled it really well and said that me saying that stuff didn't bother her at all and that she wasn't going to terminate with me or leave me (YAY!)! She has had a cancellation too, so I get to see her again this week! I hope she's happy that I finally came clean about this part of things... hopefully she understands more now! It's going to be hellatiously awkward if she tries to talk about it, but oh well. I have to. Plus, the cause of what manifests as erotic stuff with her is just really me wanting to be close to her in a very maternal way (I kinda have a boob enfatuation and she has nice ones... and so does her daughter!). It's like the little girl in me who wants to be nursed- who wants that intimacy and connection- is trying to get that need met by turning it into the most adult thing possible; something sexual. All of my sexual fantasies about my t have centered around me having access to her boobs, nothing more or less. So it's not like I was getting off looking at her kid- it's all still about my t, but like I told her, her daughter's pics just provided me with a better illustration!

Okay, I guess that's it for now. I know I'm really weird, but I just thought I'd update you all. Thanks!

-CT

CT:

Thanks for sharing this stuff with me via the link you posted in my thread. I could have written a lot of the earliest stuff myself. It makes me feel a lot better and gives me some courage that I can do this! Ugh. Scared still, but I'm feeling a bit better now. I'm so glad that you had a good outcome with your T, and I'm so hoping that I get a similar response from my own!

MTF