((( SG ))) how are you doing? I’m hoping that no posts means everything is going ok? Thinking of you and sending lots of support your way.

Lamplighter

Thanks LL for asking, and everyone else for all your wonderful replies! As I mentioned on another thread just a little bit ago, I've been feeling kind of shut down lately...I hate when that happens. But I've really been wanting to respond to at least say thank you for all the great supportive replies you posted. You are the best.

I can't really give an update yet because the session I was (am still) worried about is tomorrow, the one where my husband and I meet with the couples T again. Your replies have helped calm me down, though, so thank you again.

MTF: Thanks for the hugs and good luck wishes! And for reassuring me that it's okay to be "informed". To be fair to this couples T, though, I don't think he was as put off by it as I made it sound. That wasn't the overall feeling I had when I left that day. It's just that now I'm feeling afraid and looking for any little nuance to confirm my fears, know what I mean? Hopefully tomorrow's session will allay those fears. I will definitely keep you posted!

Lamplighter: Thanks for the hugs and support! And I had to laugh out loud when you suggested that perhaps my husband was the one who brought it up, and that he wasn't telling me an entirely accurate story. I almost wanted to ask you if you know my husband!! Now I don't know if that's really what he did...but I do know that he is VERY reluctant to express anger about anything, and when he does so he always does it in a very evasive and passive way, often giving the impression that someone else has the anger and not him! So it is very possible that is how it was brought up. If that is the case...then I'm really glad he brought it up, even evasively, because his anger deserves to be heard. Actually my reaction at his possibly being angry was "it's about time!" That being said...I am also thinking the T will want to know more specifics because of something in particular my husband said. It was not the way I would have said it so I think I'm at least going to need to clarify that. After that, I'll just try to answer the questions that come up and not try to orchestrate anything. You made me laugh when you mentioned the 5th amendment...I had thought of that, too.

STRM: Thank you too for your hugs and well wishes!

Monte: You are so right, thanks for reminding me to be honest and transparent. I liked the summary you put out there...start with the overall picture (as I see it, anyway) and then give more details if he asks for them. I don't expect him to read my mind...but it is already hard, sometimes, to remember what I've told my current T (meaning I might have told it here, and mistakenly think I've told her too, when I haven't). So if anything I'll leave huge gaps in the story thinking I've told him when I haven't. Thanks for saying I'm not "risky" or a psycho just because I have powerful feelings. I hope he sees it that way too! I hope he turns out to be as safe as he felt last week. What a relief that would be!

Echo: I'll bet you are right, the couples T wants to know how it impacted my husband. At the time it was all going on, I was wondering why he wasn't reacting more. One of the things I'm hoping will happen in couples therapy is that my husband will be more real about his feelings, whatever they are! And I like your summary, too. Very succinct. Thank you!

Jones: Oooo...you are definitely on to something with my having guilty feelings. I'm so intent on explaining that I knew it was therapy, I knew what the boundaries were...and it's true, I did...but yes, there most certainly are parts of this I'm wanting to deny, or at least greatly minimize. Here is just the first of many examples: I was immediately suspicious when my former T suggested meeting with him as an option (actually said he was leaning toward that), because all the T's I'd seen so far had told me they don't switch from individual to couples or vice versa. And I had just stated about ten minutes previously that if I could have figured out a way to have an affair, I would have had one by now. So why does he think this is a good idea? I just said my biggest complaint is that my husband and I can't talk. And what are me and Mr. T going to be doing? Talking! Doesn't he know I'm probably going to start looking at him funny? It seemed like such an obvious setup to me. But then...here's what I feel guilty about...maybe that means he thinks I'm special. Maybe he likes talking with me enough that he's making an exception this time. He even called me at work to tell me I'd be meeting with him next time. And that's what sucked me in, that wanting to feel special, even though I knew it wasn't a good idea. So I rationalized. He said he was going to run it by his review team first, so I thought, they'll catch it if it's not a good idea. But they didn't flag it. Then I thought, it's a professional setting, so nothing can happen, my husband knows I'm meeting with him, it's therapy, right...so what if it gives me a little thrill on the side to get to talk to a guy who is attentive and a good conversationalist? Oh, and he's funny, too...did I ever tell you how FAST "funny" sucks me in? It was really his idea, anyway...There is something in me that is afraid I'll get called on this, I should have known better, that I somehow caused everything to go wrong because I was trying to get away with something. Anyway I could go on in this vein for a LOT longer but I'll spare you...just wanted to say, you are spot on as usual. Thank you! And I hope you are right that this T is going to be looking at it as what role it plays in our marriage, what it says about the "emotional system" of our marriage (I like that term).

One thing that is wonderful about having met with the couples T individually...that feeling of safety I experienced with him seems to have brought about a blessed acceptance of what happened with the former T. Finally! Meaning that I no longer feel like I need to figure out what happened on his end, not knowing is no longer dragging me down into that pit of despair I know so well, I'm no longer going round and round with "it must have been my fault", or even "it must have been his fault", either. Now the feedback I've been getting makes perfect sense, I believe it deep down, no longer just hanging onto it like a lifeline (although I'm mighty grateful for the lifeline while I needed it!). It's really okay with me that things happened the way they did, even though it obviously was not the way I wanted it. And I keep checking it to see if the acceptance is still there...and so far it seems to be holding! What a relief. Now I can learn from what happened and apply it going forward. And I'm really going to milk it for all it's worth...because I never want to have to learn those lessons again!

I'm "double-dipping" tomorrow. I meet with my individual T in the morning (we couldn't meet on our usual Monday this week because of Memorial Day), then in the afternoon with my husband and the couples T. So I'll have lots to report (hopefully good) after tomorrow! Thanks again everyone for all your insight and encouragement.

SG

quote:

Originally posted by Strummergirl:
I was immediately suspicious when my former T suggested meeting with him as an option (actually said he was leaning toward that), because all the T's I'd seen so far had told me they don't switch from individual to couples or vice versa. And I had just stated about ten minutes previously that if I could have figured out a way to have an affair, I would have had one by now. So why does he think this is a good idea? I just said my biggest complaint is that my husband and I can't talk. And what are me and Mr. T going to be doing? Talking! Doesn't he know I'm probably going to start looking at him funny? It seemed like such an obvious setup to me. But then...here's what I feel guilty about...maybe that means he thinks I'm special. Maybe he likes talking with me enough that he's making an exception this time. He even called me at work to tell me I'd be meeting with him next time. And that's what sucked me in, that wanting to feel special, even though I knew it wasn't a good idea. So I rationalized. He said he was going to run it by his review team first, so I thought, they'll catch it if it's not a good idea. But they didn't flag it. Then I thought, it's a professional setting, so nothing can happen, my husband knows I'm meeting with him, it's therapy, right...so what if it gives me a little thrill on the side to get to talk to a guy who is attentive and a good conversationalist? Oh, and he's funny, too...did I ever tell you how FAST "funny" sucks me in? It was really his idea, anyway...
SG

Ooooh and the plot thickens!! You never told us THAT part of the story!

Funny sucks me in, too. But not as much as geeky. Or lonely. Handsome and mentally ill? Sign me up!! LOL

Good luck tomorrow. I'm glad to hear things are going so well!

Hi SG, just wanted to say good luck tomorrow and that I will be thinking of you. Haven't posted much lately because I haven't been feeling all that well.

I think you need to go with your original feelings about this new marital T because those are YOUR impressions first hand in meeting with him. The other information was filtered through your husband's impressions and could be incorrect and off base. I like to think I have a good gut feeling about people (well most of the time) and will usually go with that.

Please let us know how it goes for you.

Big hugs
TN

PS... My T also has a really wonderful sense of humor which makes him even more attractive to me... along with his dimples . Okay, he would die if he knew I said that LOL.

Good luck tomorrow SG! Sounds like it will be quite a busy day.

quote:

Originally posted by echo:
You never told us THAT part of the story!

Echo, you have NO idea. And it's probably better that way. This part of the "story" wasn't even the "story" yet, considering we hadn't met for the first session! You would not believe the chatter that goes on in my head. What I write here is only a small, small portion.

quote:

Funny sucks me in, too. But not as much as geeky. Or lonely. Handsome and mentally ill? Sign me up!!

Um...yeah, he's all those, too. Yes, I'm including mentally ill...but then, aren't we all? Or maybe it just seems that way to me, because I am......sorry, I'm obviously feeling a little punchy right now!

Thanks for the good wishes, TN! But I'm really sorry to hear you aren't feeling well lately. Sending big hugs right back to you, and hoping you're feeling better soon!

STRM, thanks for the good luck!

SG

(((( Strummergirl ))))

I am so glad you sound so much more positive about the upcoming meeting - and it's so heartening to hear that your realization about what happened with former T has stayed with you:

quote:

And I keep checking it to see if the acceptance is still there...and so far it seems to be holding!

Made me smile because that's what I do - get an insight or an understanding and constantly check to make sure I still believe it. It must be so good to reach that place after all the pain and guilt and thought spinning you've been going through about it. That's got to put you in a stronger position emotionally to talk about it tomorrow.

I so wish you well for tomorrow - buckets of hugs for you SG.

Lamplighter

Good luck SG

Hope it goes well tomorrow. and yes you and LL are right, it's kind of hard to believe that full acceptance is there, truly there, for us...Just about learning to accept that and not wait for a change in her behaviour when she knows and sees the real me.

You'll be exhausted by the end of tomorrow, do let is know how it went if you can. That head chatter is exhausting too - so maybe a good chance tomorrow to let some of ot out and round it up a bit.

starfish

Hi everyone!

Well, I was worried for nothing. I spent a lot of time talking about how worried I was with my individual T, but then the couples T didn’t even ask about the former T at all. He started out by asking if we had any questions from last time, but we both said no. So he went right into explaining the model he uses in his therapy with couples (Gottman’s) and how our marriage stands right now, based on the answers we gave on the worksheets we filled out, and also on our individual interviews. Not surprisingly it looks pretty dire. He said we both seem to have an avoidant attachment style.

Then we watched a video of ourselves from the first session, where he had asked us to talk about a problem we were having with communication, then he just sat back and let us talk for about ten minutes. Now, I have to tell you something about this. We both thought we had done very well. When our couples T asked us, Do you always talk like this? I thought it was because he was so impressed. I actually told my individual T I was very worried that he was SO impressed, that we’d have to convince him that this wasn’t reality, that at home it’s a totally different story, and we really do need help. Once again, I needn’t have worried. Watching ourselves was SO enlightening…and rather disturbing. He pointed out that there’s absolutely no caring for each other at all. We’re very factual but there’s no emotion and no comfort offered to the other. Very polite. Much like strangers, only I think strangers would be a bit friendlier. Not that our conversation was hostile…just very, very devoid of anything warm. There were a few “attacks” and resulting defensiveness, but even these were “polite”. He said it was depressing to watch.

At the end, he said the prognosis for our marriage was quite poor. But he’s willing to work with us, because we’ve both expressed commitment to the marriage, and neither one of us has been physically unfaithful. He said he can’t guarantee that we’ll make it, but he did have a couple like us once who surprised him by making more progress than he expected. I think that was supposed to give us some hope.

Our only assignment for now is to find 30 minutes a day to talk to each other. The only rule is there can be no problem-solving taking place, and no opinions or insights offered unless the other one asks for them. And we are not allowed to ask for them in order to avoid talking ourselves. We should each have about 15 minutes of air time. We did this last night and it was awkward but also feels exactly like what we should be doing.

One thing I got to talk about is how concerned I was that he might not see anything wrong, because I thought we had done SO well during that ten minute conversation. I spent a lot of time worrying that he might refuse to treat us because he simply couldn’t see the problem, and that we might have to convince him that there really wasn’t a problem! He had been thinking along the same lines, so we really connected over that and had a good laugh. It was nice. And I am still laughing about how sincerely concerned I was that we had given him the wrong idea. It is just too funny, really.

When we first left I felt a little let down and upset but couldn’t figure out why. Later I realized maybe it was just a release of all that energy I worked up preparing an explanation, a defense, an argument, that it turned out I didn’t need after all. I was worried he wouldn’t be our T because I was too prone to transference. I would have said as long as we focus on the marriage therapy I should be just fine. And that’s exactly what he did, without me having to explain. So I’m very okay with that!

Everything he said seemed to "fit" with what we've experienced. He didn't spend much time at all on the "why" of anything, but more on the "what are we going to do about it". He said it’ll take 25-30 sessions and we should book weekly, but we can’t get in now before the end of July with our schedules and vacations. But that’s okay, I think we’ll have our hands full with the assignment he gave us.

So that’s it, just wanted to give you all an update!
SG

SG,

I'm glad that it went well and better than you expected. It sounds like the T does feel like there is reason to hope even though it will be a difficult road. I got a chuckle out of you two talking about both feeling like the T wouldn't think you needed help. Sounds like something that my husband and I would do.

Please keep us posted on what happens when you go back!

Thanks, STRM! My individual T got quite a chuckle out of this, too. I knew she would.

The 30 minute talks already seem to be stirring things up...a little bit feels good...most of it doesn't. And it's only been five days! Criminy. The habit of running, avoiding, closing down is very deeply ingrained. The resistance is extraordinary. Takes everything I've got just to make myself sit down across from him and start in. And it's not because he's an awful person...this is all coming from inside ME. YUCK My T said it's good to keep noticing the feelings that are getting kicked up, keep asking why, keep moving toward them, into them. That's just like her, to say something like that.

I'm glad I have my T to talk to about this, because we're not going to be able to see the couples T again until the end of July. And grateful all of you are here too.

SG

Oh boy, SG - I can feel how challenging this is. My husband and I get away with a little chat before therapy, therapy and an hour of debrief afterwards... that is pretty much our formalised talking each week. I don't know how we'd handle this assignment! It sounds like *exactly* the thing you need to do, but wow, talk about stirring things up.

I'm so glad you didn't need your 'defense' in the session. I sort of hope you get to have your fears laid to rest more directly, but the most important thing is that you are getting your needs met - the need to work safely and directly on your relationship with your husband.

Well done you, for seeking this out and being ready to enter into it fully - this may be challenging but there's a sense in which it will also be such an exciting journey for you both and your marriage. The journey of truly coming to know each other and yourselves.


(((((SG)))))

Hi SG,

I just had to chime in to say that I can understand you and your DH perfectly. I so badly wish my DH would do couples therapy with me. He and I would be exactly the same as you and yours. We are both avoidant and our marriage sounds like yours. It's sad and very empty to live in that kind of a marriage. My T told us to talk for 20 minutes a night and we struggle trying to do that. It usually takes us about 10 minutes to accomplish the template she gave us, so I can't imagine trying to stretch it out to even 20 minutes, although we need to set a timer and make it go for the full time. It's so hard when you're not used to conversing on any real level with your spouse. Seems weird. I could really understand how you felt about needing to tell the T that he might not see what was really wrong with you guys based on what he'd seen in his office. You so desperately want help and wonder if your issues are really that apparent. Good thing he's so perceptive, but sad it was that obvious. I'm glad you're getting help. It makes me happy for you!

Keep us posted, as I'm really curious how this all turns out for you. Best of luck. I know you can do it, SG! You want it, and if you're both on board, that is pretty powerful ammo!! It gives me hope that maybe my marriage can make it, too.

MTF