Today after asking my T for a second weekly session, I was really happy that she said yes. But it also made me think about how afraid I was of hearing a "no," and how this fear has a constraining effect on my life in general. Apparently I've learned to fear "no" a lot because of how it was delivered. Which made me think it might actually be really therapeutic for me to practice hearing "no" delivered in a safe and understanding manner.

This is what gave me the idea for coming up with a "no" game to play with my T. The rules of the game would be that I would ask her for things, and she would be required to refuse in a polite and compassionate manner as though it were a serious request. Since hearing a no to something too close to reality might be too overwhelming at first, we could practice with inane or amusingly over-the-top requests instead! (Like, "Dear T, are you willing to help me rob a bank?!")

What do people think? Is this worth trying? Am I already likely to get a no if I ask to play this game? Any ideas for a some good ridiculous requests to start off with?

That's interesting. I am actually equally afraid of no and yes for different reasons, so I don't know how I'd react to such a game. You did remind me, however, that my T once suggested that I ask him for something, anything possible or reasonable (I think he was thinking along the lines of "pass me that book, please") so I could deal with hearing yes. At that point, he had already told me a number of things he would say yes to that I had been wanting, but I was still paralyzed about asking, even knowing a "no" wasn't coming...or perhaps more because I KNEW a "yes" WAS coming. A yes always had strings and consequences that were hidden, long-lasting, unpredictable. It was something to be used against you, the fact that you had needed something and received it. It was a debt. So, yes might actually be a larger burden to me than no, because I learned fairly early not to need from others (well, more to dissociate those needs, so I didn't even know they were there). Anyway, I am just musing here. I was too paralyzed to take T up on his game, but eventually we got to a place where he can offer and I can say yes and sometimes I can ask, though it still often takes over half a session to get myself to that point. Progress...slow, but at least in the right direction.

Alpaca - this is a really interesting topic, I I would have an incredibly hard time asking for anything...and would feel an incredible sense of anxiety if I did have to ask for something...

I wonder if anyone might be willing to share something that they have 'asked' of their T?

When I first started my T would touch my back or shoulder on the way out of the session... I found it grounding and like it was a strong gesture. I think she only did it for the first few sessions, then stopped.

After I read 'The 5 Languages of Love', we were discussing my primary language (physical touch) and I brought up her gesture as something that I found to bring a lot of comfort and was very grounding when leaving.

After that conversation - she started doing it again.

And now I feel like I inadvertently asked for it.. and while it's something I find helpful.. I now feel like I kind of manipulated her into doing it, and that she likely feels forced to do so...

I don't know how to say that to her - I've tried twice and just can't.

So... back to the topic at hand... Would anyone be able to share something they've asked for, how they felt when they were asking and the results?

Interesting topic.

I, too, fear 'no' as I see it as a rejection of myself.

Yesterday I said to T 'I brought something for you'. She didn't say anything which worried me a bit. I said to her 'Do you like chocolate' she said 'Yes' and I gave her the chocolates I had brought her. I had loads leftover from a promotions job I did.

But if she had said 'no' or rejected what I gave her, I would have felt embarrassed and wanted to hide. Her saying 'no' would have translated into 'I don't like what you are doing/this is too much/I cannot accept anything off of you which then translates to 'You don't mean that much to me' sort of thing.

I'm not comfortable enough with her to play the 'yes', 'no' game suggestion though I'll keep it in mind. It's a nice idea.

And good luck!

Alpaca
Interesting topic - I have a hard time asking for anything so hearing no or practising to hear no would be off limits for me at this stage. A few weeks ago when doing some really intense grief work with t, she noticed that I sometimes like to grab hold of her cushions when things get pretty intense, she commented on this and I was able to ask whether I could bring something into hold when we did the 'ceremony' connected to this bit of work, asked it in a round about way and t reminded me that I could bring in anything that made me feel safe in the room with her at anytime. That's how t got to meet my teddy bears and even several weeks on she remembers their names. This is the only very significant thing I have asked for of t

What a lot of interesting replies. It seems like asking for things can be fraught for many of us! I will update if and when I actually try this but it will be a while before I get a chance, due to the holiday.

Maybe, that's so adorable that she remembered your teddy bears' names!

Alpaca,
Hearing "no" was quite the long term topic for me in therapy. One of the strongest issues I had to wrestle with was that I never asked for anything unless I could be sure the answer was "yes." I got so hurt and damaged from hearing no as a child, often when I should have heard a 'yes' or shouldn't even have had to ask, that I promised myself somewhere along the way that I wouldn't hear no again.

Most of my struggle centered around actually making my needs known in a way that risked a no. Email was the huge battleground for this one. My T allowed me to email him in between appointments but responses and response times could be sketchy. (One of our worst disruptions centered around me sending an email, getting no response for three days and when I made an emergency call and asked if he had read my email, he told he couldn't remember. Call didn't end well. ) When he didn't respond, I brought up how anxious that made me and all the horrible messages I would hear and how could he not know that I wanted a response? Didn't get far with that one. He told me that I was avoiding the risk of hearing a no. If I didn't ask for a response, and didn't get one, then I wasn't actually being rejected, but if I asked and didn't get one, it was too threatening. So if I wanted a response, I had to explicitly ask for one. It's second nature now, any email to my T either says "I don't need a response" or says "please respond" in some form. But it was agonizingly hard to learn to do. OK, here's a list of my major yes and nos.

1. Regular appointments - NO
My T does not do regular appointments and because of his schedule and how I backed up into working with him individually, I didn't always make it in every week. Near his vacations, if we had a couples' session, he would sometimes not be able to provide my own session. I finally walked in one session and told him it had been a miserable two weeks and I needed a regular appt or at least the guarentee I could get in every week. He listened, empathized and understood, but the answer was no. He doesn't work that way and he would not promise me something he knew he would fail to deliver. And I wanted a regular appt so it could be "my" time and I wouldn't have to risk reaching out to him when I needed him. This was at tough one, as my first T had provided regular appts and I had to decide if I could work this way. I decided it was worth it and stayed with him. In retrospect, an excellent decision but not easy at the time. (Catching a theme? )

2. Asking for the blanket from his office - YES
My T had a chenille throw which he gave to me at a very crucial point in therapy so it had a lot of meaning to me. I was having a VERY difficult time at one point and emailed him and asked if I could borrow the blanket. He told me yes and left it outside his office so I could pick it up (bonus, my name handwritten on a note he left on top ) I borrowed it for a week. After I returned it, my T offered to let me cut a piece from it, but being a chenille throw it really would have ruined it, so I proposed a deal. I replaced the throw and took the one from his office and he said yes. The exchange took place in front of my husband, which led to some very interesting conversations. I carried that blanket everywhere for a while and my family started calling me Linus. The blanket is called my by T's name by everyone in my family and one vacation they actually went so far as to put sticky eyes on it and talk to it. Yes, my family has a twisted sense of humor.

3. HUGS - No

My T has an across the board "no hug" policy for his clients (its one of his very few across the board rules I believe). It took me a long time to ask because I was pretty certain he would say no, and I needed to be able to hear it. It was an incredible session as my T was very accepting and clear. This proved very important because I learned that I could hear "no" in a loving, caring relationship and it didn't end it, nor did it mean the person didn't care for me. The subject resurfaced a number of times and at least one major breakthrough centered around not getting a hug from him.

4. Asked to fix a typo in his name in the email setup on his smart phone. - NO

The typo drove me nuts (frankly, it still does) so I offered to fix it. He told me no and unfortunately used the word "creepy" (not about me) in his response and I went into total meltdown and made an emergency call. He felt it was important that I not take care of him and also pointed out that even in a normal relationship some people would want to do it themselves to learn it. That it was perfectly OK I asked and there was nothing wrong with running into a boundary. That boundaries say things about the person who sets them but not about the person who runs into them. Very important lesson.

5. Asked if he could leave a voicemail on my cell phone - YES

Again, was having a particularly difficult time with a flashback so I emailed him and asked if he could call my phone and leave a voicemail, because I thought having his voice available would help. He did so, and said it was no problem, so now I have this incredibly awkward, self-conscious, but highly sweet recording of my Ts voice (yes, of course I still have it!!)

5. Contact between sessions - YES
He allowed both email and phone calls. This was actually a super-charged yes as he worked VERY HARD to convince me it was ok and actually had a deep theraputic value in that I needed to learn to reach out in need and have my needs met.

6. Asked if I could live under his desk - NO
We both agreed it would probably make his other clients uncomfortable.

7. Asked for a handwritten note at our last regular session - YES

So, so very glad I asked for that one. It was a lovely note, not least for the fact that he opened with "Dear AG." All our other correspondence opened with either just my name or Hi. But I also have written reassurance now in his handwriting that the relationship was real.

Very good question and a lot of insight. Learning to hear "no" was one of the most important lessons in therapy for me. I had to learn that both I and my relationships would not actually be damaged by saying it.

AG

Hrm, I have to think hard to figure out where T has said yes and no. I think so many of our conversations have been more like negotiations of what works for both of us, so there haven't been a lot of concrete yes or no items.

Sitting close and touch - Sitting close just happened and had become a no, because he saw it was too activating for me. Eventually, we discussed it again and both that and touch became a yes (after a period of "let me think and pray about it").

Giving gifts - Yes. He allowed me to give him the two sock animals he has now, one in each office and even returned the anniversary gift by getting me an anniversary cupcake the next week, with a candle in it and everything.

Reading a story to a cp - Yes, emphatically. He seems more excited about doing this than she is, honestly, perhaps just because of my allowing that vulnerability, which was so much further out there than anything I have asked for.

Transitional object - has said yes, but hasn't done it yet and I haven't pushed.

Regularly scheduled sessions - No. I knew it was no when I asked, but I just needed to express that it would be helpful to me, even though I understood he couldn't work that way. On the other hand, he has shifted to telling me much earlier, whenever possible, when the next session will be.

Out of session contact - Yes. He is the one who suggested staying connected via text, so that was always a yes, though he (like AG's T) had to convince me it was OK for a LONG time. Email I asked for and the answer was yes to reading my journals, but no to doing anything with them (even replying) outside of session. He just doesn't have time. If I need to connect, I can text or I could probably call (but never will).

A second session a week - Yes. He did this for me once and after discussing how helpful it was, I kind of asked (indirectly) and he agreed to continue offering me (at the time a phone call).

Not to say certain things that I didn't like - No. He won't purposefully try to trigger me, but there are certain ways of writing and/or speaking that he knows he won't be successful avoiding, so we just have to deal with what it triggers for me every time it comes up. This included a lot of the God stuff for a while, although he did tone it down.

Hi Alpaca,

So glad you asked for and got a second regular session. Nice to meet you, btw. I hardly ever ask my T for things because I'm scared of both a no and a yes. But one time, I decided to test the waters and ask him something I knew he'd say no to just so I would know how it felt to hear him say no. I didn't tell him what I was doing until after it was all over and he'd already said no. I asked him if he would send me daily inspirational text messages. I'm not sure he really believed me that I'd made up something that I thought he'd say no to or I was just covering my butt!

Liese