Lately I feel like I am relapsing into a bad state again. I'm not even sure if it's depression. I don't know what it is, ever since my T made a comment in an email awhile ago about "that stae of mind that YOU call depression." (my emphasis) So, if it is just what "I call it" and it's not really depression, than what the heck IS it? All I know is that I'm teary but can't really seem to cry or figure out why I'm so sad, I feel extremely unmotivated to do *anything* I've just been sitting around or sleeping/dozing (my husband is home on break and has been watching the kids. I feel badly about my inability/lack of desire to connect with my children. I'm numbed out zoned out and disinterested in doing anything that might even pull me out of it. I feel like I am in a state of despair. I try a bit here and there, but can't really seem to get into anything. A bit better around people if we have to go somewhere (not in my family) then I can pull out for a few minutes, talk and even feel a bit interested in the conversation. Then we come back home and I just want to sleep. Life is falling apart. What the heck is going on with me...? I thought I was over this. I need my T, but I don't know if even he can help me when I get in this place. I hope I will snap out of it before I have my appointment.
I wish I had someone I could talk to about this. It's hard. So I wanted to say, sorry I have not been posting much or been much of a support lately. Not sure why I keep getting pulled into this again and again.

BB

{{{{{{{Blackbird}}}}}}}

Wow, this sure sounds like depression to me. I was experiencing all these symptoms when I started therapy, and only my last T (ex-T) referred to it as depression, and I've always wondered why the first two didn't. I wonder how your T's description of depression would be different from what you are experiencing. Have you ever asked him this? Like specifically what would be different, what makes this NOT depression? At any rate I'm sorry for how you are feeling, and also for the sting of his comment that keeps coming back to you. When is your next appointment, BB?

Hugs,
SG

((((BB))))

I can't say whether it is or isn't depression, but I think that it could be. I just wanted to say that I hope that things improve soon. I'm sorry that the comment your T made is still bothering you. Would you feel comfortable going back to your T and stating what you said here and seeing if there is anything he feels that can be done to help you? Anyway, I'm sorry you are feeling so down.

Hi BB -

This sounds like depression to me, but all that really matters is how you feel. If you FEEL depressed, then that feeling should be acknowledged regardless of whether it is actually depression. I can completely relate to being able to be different when you're around people. I've described it to my T as flipping a switch. All it is is a false front, though. And then I feel even worse and confused when I'm by myself again, because I may have been thinking that I was down/depressed, but then I'm able to be "fine" in public, so it makes me wonder what my problem is.

Also, I think Ts may shy away from labeling things. Some people (not you - or probably anyone else on here, considering we are all TRYING to get better) lean on a label and use it as an excuse. One person in my therapy group a few months ago realized through group therapy that he had been using his depression as a crutch. So I kind of wonder if that's why. Also, I guess I could kind of see it as passing judgment if they were to say, "yes, you are depressed." Then if you aren't depressed anymore, it would be like you'd have to get your T's OK to be "out" of the depression. That seems a little far-fetched, and I know that I don't think I would feel that way, but it's just an educated guess.

Hang in there, BB. I really hope that you can bring this up with your T, even though you're not sure if he can help you. Even though my T can't help me in the sense of making that kind of feeling better, per se, it seems to lessen the loneliness and utter confusion when I know that someone has listened and understands what my world can be like.

Thank you SG, Kashley, Monte and STRM. Your replies are helping me at least perk up and think about things a little bit. I suspect that I am using the dpression as some kind of crutch. Only problem is, knowing that just makes me feel 10x worse. I don't know what is my problem. I am tired of feeling like nothing matters. And it's this:

quote:

And then I feel even worse and confused when I'm by myself again, because I may have been thinking that I was down/depressed, but then I'm able to be "fine" in public, so it makes me wonder what my problem is.

I guess I almost "want" to be depressed, just to have some kind of plausable explanation for why I am feeling/behaving this way. To explain the lethargy and disinterest in a way that absolves myself of it. I can't even believe that the feelings I have a real. I think I am making it all up, using it as a crutch, and I'm actually just a really creepy person who simply doesn't care about anything. Not depressed- just bad. Just a lazy, selfish, self-indulgent, disinterested creepy person. That's how it feels. It just all feels so hopeless. I want to care. How can I make myself care? Is there some magic formula for beginning to care about life, your own life, and the lives of others around you? Sorry I am just in such a bad place, I think I will explode or die or something if nobody cares. It's like I need to feel somebody out there cares.

Thank you for your kind words, Monte, re:kids being ok, and the Divine buffer. That made me smile, and really feel a little better. If you are so inclined, could I ask you send a little prayer my way as I know you are a believer?

BB

Oh, BB. I'm so sorry...I never meant to make you feel worse. I don't think you're using depression as a crutch. The person in my group was using the label itself as a crutch, regardless of whether he actually felt the feelings that you are feeling. Does that make sense?

quote:

I guess I almost "want" to be depressed, just to have some kind of plausable explanation for why I am feeling/behaving this way. To explain the lethargy and disinterest in a way that absolves myself of it. I can't even believe that the feelings I have a real. I think I am making it all up, using it as a crutch, and I'm actually just a really creepy person who simply doesn't care about anything. Not depressed- just bad. Just a lazy, selfish, self-indulgent, disinterested creepy person.

I COMPLETELY understand this. It seems like, for me at least, that if I don't have some sort of label to explain why I feel the way I do, then what I'm feeling isn't legitimate, and I don't deserve to be feeling that way. I'm sorry - I wish I could offer more help as to how to get out of thinking and feeling that way, but I'm in the same spot myself. It's horrible. When is your next session, BB?

I hope you know that we all really do care, regardless of whether you can actually feel our hugs. Please keep posting and let us know how you are feeling and what we can do to help.

((((((BB))))))

oh, and yeah, thanks also for advice about talking to T about it. I have an appointmnet with him Tuesday. (Only went two weeks this time!) I'm just scared he might inadvertantly make it worse. That has happened before, and I am scared of it happening again, even though things in therapy have taken a turn for the better the last few months. I guess I am probably in the middle of my usual between session spiral downwards, come to think of it, but it's just got worse this time for some reason.

BB

{{{{{BB}}}}} I can relate to thinking I must "want" to be depressed so that I can think of myself as "bad". I am so sorry you are feeling this way, it's an awful dark feeling no doubt about it. I would say "no, you're not" (using this as some kind of crutch) but I know how much that WON'T mean right now. So I will just say, I really know how that feels, I've had the same thoughts when I'm in that place. And I do not have the list of depression symptoms memorized, but I know for sure that the lethargy and disinterest you mentioned is definitely one of the top symptoms of depression.

quote:

Sorry I am just in such a bad place, I think I will explode or die or something if nobody cares. It's like I need to feel somebody out there cares.

We do!!! We do!!! Keep posting here if it helps, dear BB...and I am a believer too, so I will offer up some prayers for you along with Monte.

More hugs,
SG

Thank you, too, SG. As I just said to Kashley, it is true and I know that the people here care, and that is shown every day in a million ways. I deeply appreciate all the support right now. And thank you so much for offering some prayers, too. You have no idea how good it feels, to know someone out there is saying a little prayer for me. Thank you from my heart.

BB

BB

Kashley I just wrote something to you above but I deleted it. I just wanted to say thank you for your kindness, and I know you weren't trying to make me feel worse...of course not, I know that. It just feels good to explain to you and the others what is going on inside, and thank you for letting me do that so kindly. I siad in my post that I don't know if I have the will to get better or heal, and I feel really worreid about that a lot of the time, because I just can't make myself care and let myself instead get pulled in further. I don't know what to do about it. I feel like I am in therapy only to get some attention or something, that I really don't care about getting better. It's pretty hopeless. Maybe I should quit, maybe that is the answer to the problem, but that gets really confusing to contemplate. Thank you for "listening" you guys and offering your support. BB's feathers a bit bedraggled tonight.

BB

BB,

I'm so sorry to hear that you're struggling right now.

I may be totally barking up the wrong tree here, so take my comments with a very large grain of salt.

I wonder if what your T meant by his/her comment is that while you may be feeling "depressed," something else might be going on inside you, something that you can't even discern just yet. Something monumental that, if you really look into it, might be a source or true vitality. After all, in my opinion at least, 'happiness' is not the opposite of depression. Vitality is the opposite of depression.

I believe in the idea of the soul - or the true self - and that we often cover up our soul with layers and layers of junk. The junk might be a false self, created out of necessity from childhood or some other part of life that required it.

Or the junk could be layers of culture-based expectations and societal norms that all 'normal, healthy' people adhere to, like: "I must always find my job rewarding, I must always love my partner, I must always be cheerfully supportive of others, I must always appear in control, composed and throughly fulfilled in all aspects of my life, etc, etc." You know, all that crap that was drilled into us our entire lives.

The junk might be something like this from my own life. I often wondered why I don't wake up in the morning excited to go to work. It actually took me a LONG time to see - and admit - that it's because, much of the time, my job is a stulfifying, soul-deadening waste of my time. Last week I spent half a day at work just watching live music on the KCRW video podcast. Why? Because that speaks to my soul more than cutting and pasting some dumb-ass Word document into a webpage that no one will ever read.

So when I think about my job and find it meangingless and irritating and depressing, I think it's my soul saying, "ok, how long are you gonna keep doing this thing that I clearly don't really find meaningful?" I could answer, "but I need a job. We all do!" But, the soul doesn't care about the bills. It cares about meaning.

So I think sometimes when we feel flat and vaguely but profoundly sad and disinterested and in a general malaise...sometimes I think that's our long-ignored soul telling us something about how we might be feeling under all the junk. It could be an invitation to look someplace we haven't looked at in a while to see what's going on. I'm not at all saying that this is what you're experiencing, but maybe your T meant something along these lines.

Best,
Russ

thank you very much for your comments, Russ...they are certainly giving me food for thought. I totally agree that the opposite of depression is vitality. I have been looking for that elusive source of vitality all my life... I am just not sure what it is or how to tap into it.

I'm sure that my T didn't mean "you are not really depressed, you are just making this all up to get attention, you loser" but emotionally I guess that is what I believe. My problem is that so much of the time I still feel like the dirty, unwashed, depicable child that I once was, even though rationally that is not true anymore, maybe I'm not so powerless, I guess I don't really know how to find my way out of those feelings of worthlessness without some kind of ideal love that doesn't really exist- humanly speaking.. And that my faith is largely an excercise in "choosing to believe" *despite* my feelings, somehow seems to reinforce this sense of worthlessness, as if even God has turned His back on me. (I am sorry to bring my own beliefs into the discussion, it's just where I am so I can't leave it out very easily) I am wondering what my block is...I feel like my psychlogical defenses must be what are keeping me from experiencing faith or relationships as they are meant to be experienced, but I feel like I am completely unable to do one thing to change them. I don't know how to get rid of that "junk" you are talking about.

quote:

something else might be going on inside you, something that you can't even discern just yet. Something monumental that, if you really look into it, might be a source or true vitality. After all, in my opinion at least, 'happiness' is not the opposite of depression. Vitality is the opposite of depression.

I have no idea what that something monumental might be. I suspect you are probably right about it.

quote:

sometimes I think that's our long-ignored soul telling us something about how we might be feeling under all the junk. It could be an invitation to look someplace we haven't looked at in a while to see what's going on. I'm not at all saying that this is what you're experiencing, but maybe your T meant something along these lines.

My problem here is that I really think you are right, but I desperately need some guidance to do this...I don't really know how to "look" inside at what is "really going on" by myself, do you know what I mean? It just gets too confusing, and I've kind of given up on it. But my T can't really tell me what is going on...or even what he thinks is going on, because I am highly suggestible, and it might not be the truth. I just feel like I am in no-man's land.
Any ideas what to do? I feel like I have been waiting all along for someone to tell me what to think, what to do , how to do it...because I am not at all in touch with who I am inside. So I don't even know really how to look there and see it hoenstly...it could just be a bunch of made-up junk that I don't really think/feel at all, but that someone, somewhere else along the line told me to think. I'm confused. Thanks for listening.

BB

quote:

Originally posted by blackbird:

My problem here is that I really think you are right, but I desperately need some guidance to do this...I don't really know how to "look" inside at what is "really going on" by myself, do you know what I mean? It just gets too confusing, and I've kind of given up on it. But my T can't really tell me what is going on...or even what he thinks is going on, because I am highly suggestible, and it might not be the truth. I just feel like I am in no-man's land.
Any ideas what to do?

BB,

This is something that I'm still working on myself. And you're right, your T can't tell you what's going on inside you. And even if he did, it would only be beneficial to you if YOU saw it and FELT it, too. That's why our Ts have to tell us stuff over and over and over and over.

For example, if my T knew exactly what my problem was and said to me, "Ok, here's your story. You are in an unconscious rage because your mother rejected you, but because the idea of being enraged at your mother goes against everything you believe and feel about her and about yourself consciously, you aren't allowing yourself to feel it. But, the feelings are trying to come to the surface regardless, and the conflict is causing you to get panic attacks and to feel depressed"...or whatever your symptoms may be.

This would be great information, but if I don't actually believe it, feel it and know it myself, it just remains information.

This is why therapy is so insanely difficult. We have to excavate our lives and our history and our beliefs and get to the truth of things before we can change how we actually are in the world. And believe me, I feel like I'm at square one with all this stuff and I'll be 80 by the time my psyche is actually healthy and I can wake up in the morning feeling good.

I don't how your T works, but my T puts a lot of importance on the content of dreams, the way I use language to express myself and, especially, my defences, to chip away at my "junk" to get to what I might really feel about things.

And now, as I've talked about in my other posts, he's really pushing to make the therapy about how I feel about him.

I think the idea is to see my defences and anger and fears in action between us so that I can see how I really feel about things. If I can get to those buried, defended feelings, then hopefully some healing can begin. But I think my defences is where a lot of my particular "junk" is, layers of "protection" against the risk of hurt feelings.

Do you do any dream work in your therapy? I just had a dream today during a nap where my dad puts his hand on my shoulder in an attempt to be affectionate and I jerk myself away from him and say, "don't f-ing touch me." Now, I can tell you that before therapy, I didn't have dreams like that. And before therapy, I didn't know the depth of anger I had toward my father or why. Sure, I hated his guts when I was in high school, but I didn't know why, and I also tried to pack those feelings away for 20 years because I didn't think it was right to be angry at a man who's been so generous to me in other ways in my life. Now, I'm starting to learn why I feel this way.

Maybe doing a bit of dreamwork, even as just an experiment, might be a place to start looking at your own "junk?"

I hope all this doesn't just confuse you more. I know it's confusing and maddening to me. I hope some of this makes at least a little bit of sense.

Russ

Thanks Russ... what you are saying makes sense.
My T has never asked about my dreams, though. Not sure what his view on dreams are, but I know I don't really remember my dreams. Every once in awhile I have one I remember. It would be very hard to talk to my T about dreams unless he asked. I have this idea, might just be in my head, that he doesn't go for stuff like that...if that was the case (and I don't know if it is) than I would be inclined (of course ) To follow his lead. I did have a very pleasant dream about my T once, in which he was teaching me how to swim. I later thought about an intense recurring dream I used to have when I was small where my mom was casually watching me drown, and kind of tied the two together, but that was all just in my own head. I'm pretty nervous to share stuff like that with T. Goofy I know, he's probably heard it all a million times. groan. I know I need to talk about more "real" stuff in my therapy, but I get really spacy and it makes it awfully hard to connect with what I need to talk about, let alone figure out how to put into language he will understand. I guess I just have to keep practicing.

Thanks for your input, Russ. One more sleep until my session...hopefully it will help with understanding this depression (or whatever)

BB

BB,

I've been seeing my guy for over two years, multiple times a week, and I'm still uncomfortable every time I go in there, so I understand feeling awkward about bringing things up.

But I've reached a point where I pretty much just force myself to reveal really, really private, awkward and/or shameful (to me) things to him, if for no other reason than to get them off my chest.

One thing I love about my T is that he is totally, totally respectful of everything I tell him, no matter how freaky or shameful I might think it is. For him, there is meaning in everything, so he takes nothing lightly, and he knows when something is difficult for me to say, and he honors that completely. He once told me, "nothing you say will offend me." I like that.

I don't think many T's these days work with dreams, which seems a little sad to me. For me, they represent a part of the massive ice berg of ourselves that's below the surface of the water (so to speak), even when they're disturbing and leave me feeling awful. In the same way that our conscious emotions aren't random and meaningless, neither are our dreams, in my opinion.

Russ