The last two or three sessions with Manatee we have been coming up against this block as we kinda slowly work towards EMDR. I tell him about a situation, he asks what I believe about *myself* from the situation, and... I don't know. Cognitively I just don't think that way - I said that yesterday, but also that I understand that doesn't mean that the beliefs aren't there determining or restricting my behavior.

He has a list of stuff that is kinda helpful - "I'm worthless" etc, but I really struggle to catch one and hold it. He asks me for an image from the memory that expresses the feeling, but then the memory just dissolves. I end up making it up/ elaborating/fictionalising instead. He said that was ok. But I'm really not sure that it's doing what he wants to do - getting closer to the beliefs.

I can't get any solid fix on the relationship between feeling/thought/image at all. Part of the problem is that a lot of these memories I've talked about before with other therapists, so the emotional charge is mostly gone - they are just things that I know happened. If I didn't know that they happened because I have talked about them before, I would be unsure they had happened. I feel like I'm turning into a woman without a past. And yet he still thinks they are significant.

This is part of a bigger pattern, I think, where my own ways of being are invisible to myself. Any thoughts welcome.

Hi Jones,

I don't know a lot about EMDR so I can't offer any thoughts there. And, I may be way off base here, but it's my understanding that if there has been an attachment injury, there often follows a lifetime of insecure attachments and trauma, etc. But the problem with the attachment injury is that it's all preverbal. When the injury occurred, you did not have the language, the cognition necessary in order to process it. The neural connections just aren't there for you and maybe that's why you experience the block??? I know for a fact (my T would disagree) that I'm missing a very many neural connections and often "sense" a black hole in my brain. I think that's why these things often have to be "felt" and experienced and then labeled. Does this make sense?

jones, that sounds interesting though. maybe it is just stiff at first. but, seems t is going for the feelings associated with it, and break through that wall of intellect. i think that is where it is at, for this preverbal stuff. sometimes i can tap into it, and sometimes not.

but, i try to remember when i do, and what triggers it. for example, sunday night i cried for an hour, deep, panicky sobbing. the thought that kept crossing my mind is how i have NEVER had ANYONE help me. emotionally, psychologically...really looking at the formative years through 25 or so. and that it has been a one man show, and that i did a lousy job, and i was sad, mad, grieving, pissed. all of the above.

sometimes triggering in on what makes you burn up inside, and remembering it to t.

but, i would keep at it. is sounds like this is going to tap into the right brain, where the injury is, and the healing.

'nuther example. my dr. pa had to cancel twice last week due to bad weather. and it was appropriate that he did. well, i had a bad week, knew it was intellectually not his fault he cancelled. he asked if some of this bad week is tapping into feeling abandoned by him. i argued "NO, you had to cancel!! the weather was icy, i don't fault you!" but he said emotions are not rationally based. and i see this is the argument in my head. and i won't accept pulling on old illogical strings, but i did realize, and tell him, that yes, i was hurt.

so, i guess i am realizing, as i have said elsewhere, that intellect is just confusing the issue.

i would give it a few weeks of trying, and paying attention to whatever irrational thought in your head causes you pain, and bring it up. i have a feeling you will get there. i think your t sounds great, and creative, and tuned into what you need.

and yes, i know what you mean, about grievous stuff not being stated emotionally anymore...i feel like i am ordering pizza, giving my 'schpeel' to a new t...a la, "oh, yea, a little csa, just to add to the mix"!
good luck!! jill

Jill said it all so succinctly. I'm often still in that no it doesn't hurt anymore mode when another part of me is scurrying around, trying to hide my pain. Just a lifetime of pain. Not even one specific thing anymore.

Because I don't know how to protect myself, I've walled myself off from my emotions and from new experiences. And, so really, there isn't anything else. I'm not allowing new experiences to come in. I can give you a narrative as far as the history of my life. I can do it, as Jill said, in a very unemotional way. But I'm not FEELING it.

Maybe it is all too overwhelming for you to experience all at once and that you have to learn to experience it little by little? Maybe you are putting too much pressure on yourself to do too much at once?

I don't know a lot about EMDR. How far along in therapy do you have to be in order to attempt it? Do you have to have a secure attachment established first? You haven't been with manatee that long yet. Maybe you have to successfully attach first? Just throwing some stuff out there.

Jones,

I've only done modified EMDR because I'm dissociative, but I found that it helped to read a book on it. The best one that I found out there is EMDR If you haven't read it, maybe it would help to allay some of your fears about it and get a better feel for the process.

Sorry I can't be of more help. The version that I do with my T is so modified that I can't really comment much on identifying the beliefs and all of that.

Thank you everyone - these messages have been both interesting and comforting. I'll come back and write more soon.

xxJones

Jones,

Hope you are okay. I know how frustrating it is trying to reach something that is so blocked off. I often feel the same way. Sometimes I wonder if I'm just trying to be a different person, one with feelings. Maybe I'll never react to things the way a "normal" person would react. I don't know. It's so confusing.

Dear all,

Thank you so much for your thoughts on this, and for being there for me when I reach out. I want to apologize that so often when I do post about my own stuff I then withdraw from the responses - I just often seem to need that space to process privately. But I appreciate each of the responses, and they always give me something to think about.

Liese, thank you for your comments and your lovely concern. About preverbal attachment injury - I'm not sure that's what is at play here. I'm not even sure it's trauma based, or that it's a problem. It's something to do with the visualisation and felt experience of memory - that something is clear at first, then when I get closer to it it dissolves.

I discussed this with Manatee yesterday before we began EMDR (more on that soon) and was able to describe the dissolving, and being left in this situation of 'making stuff up'. He clarified whether I was sure that the things had happened, and I said yes, totally sure, but that they don't *feel* real as I get closer to them. he said that was totally okay, and that it was fine to elaborate in ways that weren't from the original experience. He saw it as part of the processing of the memory, and said this was not problematic at all.

So that helped me to feel a lot more comfortable. I want to clarify, too, that what I'm describing here is not the same kind of block as not being able to remember, or feeling frightened of a memory and unable to approach it. The experience in my body is not one of great fear. The other thing about it is that many of the memories I am considering have been part of my consciousness for a long time - I have considered and reconsidered them, and felt very wounded and nursed them, suppressed my anger and to some degree experienced it and so on.

But there is still some processing work to do - the hidden beliefs.

Jill, I relate to that feeling of having 'never had anyone help me'. Which is sort of funny when I think about how much professional help I've had over my whole teen & adult life - not to mention the help of wonderful friends. I think for me this is really one of those core early experiences - and then the rest, the patchwork of putting things together after the fact - a beautiful patchwork, while the emotional experience is still sometimes one of trying to look for that first whole blanket that was - or wasn't.

I am hopeful about getting past the intellectualising with Manatee, but also at the moment enjoying being in there and not needing to get past it - connecting there a little bit, which helps me feel safe.

Liese, that question of whether EMDR is okay at this phase of the relationship - it's a good one, and a few people have asked me that. I'll write more about yesterday's session shortly, but I will say that it's okay for me right now. That's for a few reasons though. One is that I have done enough work that I can express my doubts, discomforts and even anger when necessary. We established that in the second session, and that protects me *a huge amount*. So asking about the dissolving thoughts was important to me, and I was able to. Manatee has made it very clear that it's my choice to do this, and he made sure that I knew how to stop it yesterday if I wanted to.

While we were preparing, I also thought through what might come up (EMDR is basically a free-association process). I don't have traumas that I have repressed, though there is some non-traumatic difficult material that I've never discussed with anyone. I decided that if that stuff came up I could simply say I wasn't going to talk about it, and that's exactly what happened yesterday. Because I'd decided that ahead of time, it felt okay (though there was a lot of emotion through the whole process). Manatee spent some time checking out if that was what I really wanted, and I said yes. Afterwards he told me it was totally fine to have done that.

STRM (YES, I always think Storm! and I like it ), thank you for this link. I found when I first started this that reading stuff about the process made me feel over-defended, but I feel okay to have a look now.

I think one of the things I was most scared about in doing this was that it might be the end of my relationship with Manatee (because I'd be instantly cured, haha!). Having done it, though, it feels much more like a beginning. So much stuff came up yesterday, just in image form, and I think - hope - we will be able to discuss that stuff more. Though I guess I'm still scared about this, I know also that this fear is not really about EMDR, and I'll have to engage with this, EMDR or no.

When we began yesterday Manatee told me to think about it like a train - we would go through different places and stations, but the thing was not to get off the train and stay in one place, but to just keep going and see where it went. At the end he told me that it was okay that I had been crying (I can't remember which part I was crying about), and that keeping moving in that way was not about dismissing the feelings or experience. That the brain is still processing through the eye movements, even though we keep moving.

I feel kinda vulnerable and emotional now, but okay. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

love,
Jones

Jones,

It sounds like you did well with the EMDR and that you are open to where it is going. That is great!!

Funny that you mention the train thing. It must be something that they teach them in training because my T says the exact same thing!! She says to just think of it a scenery going by on a train, don't hold onto it, just let it move right on by.

I hope it continues to go well for you! Thanks for updating.

Dear STRM,

Thanks. I am feeling pretty wobbly now. Trying to use my safe place and also to hold on to the things he said afterwards - that it was okay not to have said some stuff, that we weren't dismissing things.

After an EMDR session, do you talk it through in the next session? I am really feeling like I need a slower processing session, or a few, now.

I think the train thing is part of the protocol, along with 'there's no right way to do this, whatever comes up is okay' or something like that.

J

Jones,

I know what you mean about resisting because you don't want it to be the end of the relationship. I have thought that countless times during my therapy. Okay, I'll follow his advice and it'll be that easy and I'll be cured. I actually read on a therapists website how she handled that and somehow she used the word AND. I wish I could remember exactly what she told herclients. It was like yes,you'll do this AND we'll still work together. Only better than that.

I'm so glad that you were able toidentify what was bothering you and workthrough it. I'm still so bad at that. But I'm glad you were able to do it.

Sorry you feel so wobly today. I'm glad you updated. I do worry about you when you don't post. But I did kind of figure that you were processing things. I know how it feels when I am in that raw state and needing to keep things close to the vest.

Will Manatee do regular therapy with you too?

Jones,

Yes, things often come up after EMDR and sometimes for a week afterwards. Unless I am still really dealing with intrusive images, we don't do it in back to back sessions. We often have sessions in between where I process the knowledge and any thoughts that come up surrounding the material.

My T says that after EMDR you can think of it like a glass of soda/pop. There will be bubbles that break loose from the side of the glass and rise to the top and that is normal.

I hope you aren't feeling too wobbly today and can utilize your safe place. (((hugs)))

Hi Liese,

Thanks for the kind thoughts. There's no need to worry about me - I have good resources. Often when I am doing a lot of processing it is most comfortable for me to do it privately. Also I really get a lot from people's feedback but I find it hard to integrate, I am slow with that. Sometimes if I go too fast I feel threatened when people identify with me, rather than reinforced, as other people seem to feel. And then once I take my time, find myself again and take it in, the feedback takes its proper value and I really enjoy the support. Just one of my quirks.

The EMDR is in the context of some kind of 'regular' therapy with Manatee. But I've yet to figure out (or ask) what the greater shape of that might be.

Take care.

J

Hey Jones,

You do strike me as the independent type. That's a good thing. Wondering what your birth order is? Do you have a younger sibling who tended to latch onto your identity? Just wondering about the comment you made about how it makes you uncomfortable when people identify with you. I WAS the younger sibling!!!!

Glad things are going well with manatee.

Liese

Hi Liese, good question! But no, I was the younger sibling too! Until I was 14 or so, anyway. I don't know where it comes from... just is, I guess.

Takes care,
Jones