Thanks SD

I have been with her for over 2 years and it just seems so odd that we have never had any physical contact what so ever. I guess in thinking about this, it parallels my relationship with my mom. We cared very deeply for each other, but never hugged or kissed. I imagine that maybe that happened when I was very young, but I really have no memories of it.

I'm trying to get up the nerve to ask her at my next session, but I know I have to word it in a way that it does not become a rejection of me. If she says it is her policy, I will still be disappointed, but I will be better able to move on without all those feelings about myself that you mentioned you are feeling. I can so understand the way you feel.

She knows how strong my rejection/abandonment issues are, so I guess it would be interesting to see how she responds. I'm afraid that it will also go into a conversation about my feelings about it. That could be good or bad.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It gives me a lot to think about. I just know that I have to resolve this sometime soon because it is starting to consume me. It distracts me while I am in session and I guess it would be best to get it off my plate entirely.

PL

Just want to jump in here. I saw my T for just over a year when we finally had real touch. It would drive me crazy that I couldn't touch him. I felt that I needed to touch him just to know tht he was really real. We had a few "hand bumps" over the year... like one time when he handed me a bottle of water and other time when he dropped something and I picked it up and handed it to him. And those very brief touches were like an electric bolt. Then one time while sort of reviewing the relationship... this was probably about 10 months into it I remarked how he never even offered to shake my hand when I met him (at my son's session) and I thought at first he was a very cold person. At the time I had no idea about boundaries etc. And he told me he had no real hard and fast rule about handshaking and that if someone offered he would shake their hand. Hmmm....

So at the holidays in December I was walking out after a session w/my son and at the last moment I turned around and offered him my hand and said "I hope you have a very happy holiday". He took my hand without hesitation and smiled at me and wished me the same. And it was not so much a handshake as he just held my hand for that moment. There was no up and down shaking part just my hand in his. His hand felt warm and safe and really good. That feeling stayed with me for a long time. He never mentioned it and we never talked about it. But I have never offered my hand again either. After one really brutal session where I had a sort of re-experienced trauma I so longed to touch him again or have him hold me just to sort of ground me before leaving the office but alas that did not happen.

There is a Ph.D. T who writes a lot about boundaries and about the role of touch in therapy that I found very interesting. His name is Zur and here is a link to his website:

http://www.zurinstitute.com/articles.html

and to an article on touch in therapy:

http://www.zurinstitute.com/touchintherapy.html

BTW, you will note that my avatar is a handshake

TN

quote:

There is a Ph.D. T who writes a lot about boundaries and about the role of touch in therapy that I found very interesting. His name is Zur and here is a link to his website:

http://www.zurinstitute.com/articles.html

and to an article on touch in therapy:

http://www.zurinstitute.com/touchintherapy.html

BTW, you will note that my avatar is a handshake

TN

Hi TN...

I've appreciated your posts very much. You write very well.

I found this website too...quite some time ago. I even printed out the VERY long article to take to my T. Well...I still have it. It seemed insignificant after I actually made "first contact" LOL...(what a bonehead!)

I've been thinking about digging it out of my files and taking it to her. The "hug" issue is still bothering me quite a bit. I could feel it in my last post. I feel like I should just shake it off and go on. But I've tried....and it won't go away. It is still an issue between us. I am most miffed about the fact that I am sure that it was not coming from a place of transference with me. And now that is all it is about. Why can't some things be taken at face value and left there?

SD

Hi SD and thank you for the compliment.

I read about your experience with the hug and was frankly shocked that your T reacted that way. After all you had known her a very long time and I would also think it unnatural never to have any touch w/her for all that time. I'm so sorry you suffered such hurt over this. I would feel exactly the same way. I would immediately think that I was so horrible that my T couldn't bear to touch me. It would just confirm everything bad that I feel about myself, while a brief, non-sexual hug would imply that I was okay and worth hugging and that my past had no bearing on who I was and what my T thought of me.

I have not gotten past the handshake stage with my T but I have seen him high-five my son and squeeze his shoulders affectionately so I know he does use touch in therapy... at least with the kids. I guess adult women are a different story LOL. I often thought to tell him that I would not be adverse to non-sexual touch if he felt that it would be appropriate at the time. A touch on the shoulder or pat on the back would be very calming and comforting to me if I was emotionally upset/crying.

As you mentioned, they really do not spend enough time on this in graduate school and it should be addressed more thoroughly.

TN

Thank you HB for the kind words.

TN

quote:

The idea of talking about something is always worse in my head than the reality turns out to be and i hope it is like that for you.

HB

You hit the nail on the head right here. (or maybe the nail hit me on the head ) Anyway, this is so true and my T and I had some of this conversation just last week. It has to do with my fixation of what people think of me, always thinking that they are thinking the worst. She reminded me that many times I come to therapy and project what I believe she will think about something I'm saying or feeling, and she is nowhere in the ballpark of what I thought. Does that make sense? She always says, "Well thank you for letting me know what I am thinking." Of course then she laughs and tells me that she is not thinking that at all.

I'm trying to muster up the guts to ask this. I have played several scenarios in my mind, actually many more than several. I guess I won't get it out of my head until I do it. I really do trust her and I know she won't make me feel bad about asking. I just know I'll feel bad if it is not the answer I want, but at least I'll have an answer.

Sometimes I get so obsessed with things!!!

PL

quote:

surprisingly the judging and criticising turns out to have had a lot more to do with me than him.

Oh yeah! I can relate to this. A few weeks ago my T asked me a question, wondering if I thought about myself in a certain way. I answered honestly and said that I didn't see myself that way. Well that evening my mind went crazy and I called and left her a VM asking her if that is how she sees me. If she thought other people think that of me because that is not how I want to portray myself. When we talked, she said she should have known better than to ask me that question. What she meant is that I have a track record of assuming that others will judge me as harshly as I judge myself.

I think I really need to ask her. My brain says, "Why would she want to hug me?" But my heart wishes she would. Which is another issue I am dealing with. I have this habit of wishing for things in a relationship instead of asking for them. Then I get ticked off when the other person can't read my mind and give me what I am wishing for.

I hate that one issue always leads to another. Sometimes I think there will be no end to the issues I have stored inside me.

PL

quote:

I have this habit of wishing for things in a relationship instead of asking for them. Then I get ticked off when the other person can't read my mind and give me what I am wishing for.

PL... I do this ALL the time. I sometimes drop veiled hints about what I want and when the other person does not pick up on it I get angry with them. It comes back to the problem of not being able to ask for what I want because I never learned to do this as a child. This need was never met as a child and sometimes if I tried it was met with harshness or punishment and so I just learned it was better not to ask. In fact, I was praised to others by my parents for not asking for anything. As in "my kids NEVER ask for anything!" As if that was something to be proud of and it just reinforced my belief that it was wrong to ask. This is a huge part of what I am working on with my T, who is ever patient with me. And when I do ask for something and he gives it ... we look at how it was the right thing to do and that if I didn't ask I would be sitting there suffering.

As I look back onto my life this not being able to ask damaged my life in a lot of ways. So many times not being able to ask for help (especially) caused me to try to do it all alone and there were times that I messed up because I didn't have the tools to do it all alone. Sometimes ya just need some help with stuff!

As for the hug... I think you could ask your T if she has a policy on hugging without making it so personal. That may be easier for you. But as a wise friend once told me "don't ask unless you are prepared for a no". I am not prepared yet for a no so I have not asked.

Good luck

TN

quote:

In fact, I was praised to others by my parents for not asking for anything.

TN

My T and I have talked about this at length. My mom especially always praised me for being so "tough" and being able to do things on my own from the age of 2. When I was 3 my mom had hepatitis and I had to take care of her during the day because my dad had to go to work. People were so afraid of getting it from her that no one would come into the house. I made her peanut butter sandwiches for lunch every day and entertained her. I always remember feeling that I could and should do everything on my own.

Since my T really understands this, and knows about the wishing thing, I think she will put 2 and 2 together if I ask her this. Do I want her to say no? Absolutely not! But the wishing is killing me and I think I just need to get past it. I'm actually telling myself that she will say no. Therefore, if she says yes, I will probably freak out and then get major anxiety about that! There is just no easy answer in any of this therapy stuff is there?

PL

quote:

Originally posted by True North:
As you mentioned, they really do not spend enough time on this in graduate school and it should be addressed more thoroughly.
TN

This ^ is why it is called Gradual School!


Thanks TN...and everyone....

It's nice to know that SOMEONE understands...and feels the way I do. I've been afraid that what I did was totally inappropriate and off base. When in reality (I know)...it was not. I have even asked her if she had a personal issue with casual touch. She did flinch a bit...so I may have hit a nerve there. hmmm.... Anyway...she denied having such an issue, which I thought was really strange. After all...I had just offered her a very convenient out, and she did not take it. OK...so she is either really dumb, wants to work out the problem, or just can't admit that she has any problems. hmmmm....I don't know. And I don't know if she will work it out with me or someone else...but I do hope she eventually understands what happened between us. And...if I live long enough...who knows...maybe I'll hear about it.

SD