Here is one downside to transference with T (besides all of the painful unfulfilled longings) I want her to like me! I want her to like me so desperately that I am afraid to tell her anything that I find embarrassing or shameful. I have trouble admitting the truth when I am failing because I don't want to make her mad or disappointed. I can't ask for anything because a "no" seems like it would be way too devastating. I can't depend on her because I don't know if she wants me to. Sometimes I dread going to a session because of how awful it feels to leave. I don't want to open up too far because it feels even worse when the time is up and that is it, "see ya - and don't let the screen door hit you on your ass on the way out." I don't want to know anything about her because then I just put her on a higher pedestal and feel less worthy of her showing any care or concern or interest in me. I can't wait to see her but then I get so anxious while I am there I can't enjoy it or remember much of what she says. I have found that even though I thought that there were some things about myself that I thought would be impossible to talk about with anyone, I can blabber away all day about those with her but I can not, for the life of me, talk about any of the above. Talking about our relationship has been the single most difficult subject for me. I freeze whenever I try to bring it up and she doesn't seem to bring it up herself much. This internal battle has been fierce and seemingly endless. I am just tired and want a break. Anyone else had any success taking a break from intense, almost-obsessive type feelings for their T? (Or I guess anyone else if applicable?)

River,
I'm sorry, I really get everything you're feeling because I've struggled with all the same feelings. If you can figure out a way to take a break, please, please share. I'd like to figure that one out myself.

You know what I'm going to say, right? The only thing to do is talk about it with your T. Your feelings for her are causing a fog in the therapy because they're hampering your ability to talk about what you need to. You can start by telling her just how scared you are to talk about what you need to talk to her about.

You're living in fear right now and to quote "Strictly Ballroom" "A life lived in fear is a life half lived." You deserve to be free of that. And I'm am sure that your T will understand and be able to reassure you so that you will feel freer to speak. How you're feeling is normal and natural. This is a person vastly important to you, that you are scared to lose, so you edit yourself. But don't you see that was the problem in the first place? That you weren't allowed to be who you were? That your emotions and feelins weren't welcomed or understood? The relationship with your T is your chance to experience something different. A place where you can express ALL of your feelings and ALL of who you are so you can learn that all of you is acceptable and worthwhile. I've known you long enough to know that who you are is a wonderful person, who need have no fear about showing herself or being seen.

And you could stop spending so much energy editing yourself. Sorry, I know I sound like a broken record, but I do believe it would be for the best. And please know that I say it because I care, not because I am insensible to the pain you're in or the horrendous difficulty of doing what I'm suggesting.

AG

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I am just tired and want a break.

River

Do I ever understand this! The thing is though, if you take that break, it won't make those intense feelings go away. It may just even make them more intense. All of the things you are saying are so normal! And yes, I know that may not make you feel any better. But, I've been there and still am. My T doesn't bring it up either. (So, how do you feel about me today? Still in love with me? Want me with all your heart?........ ) But she does listen to everything I say and when I bring it up and she sees that I'm struggling, she helps me along and things come out of my mouth that truly surprise me. Your T is probably waiting for you to open the door. And when you do, you won't believe the relief. You don't have to say it all at once. Just let out a little. Start by telling her you have some strong feelings about her and you don't know how to start to tell her. It sounds like you have a really great T and she will be happy that you have finally brought it up. None of this is easy and it is all very scary. It is up to you whether you take a break or not, but do you think that will really resolve your feelings?

I hope this helps. Now that I look back at it, it sounds a little preachy. It wasn't meant to be.

PL

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Start by telling her you have some strong feelings about her and you don't know how to start to tell her.

Oh I have told her - more than once - there is no mystery in the room as to what I feel about her. And even though we have talked about it I don't feel much relief. I guess I am not done talking about it but I get so nervous every time I bring it up. I would rather endure the questions I think. But even when I tell her it is easier for me to answer questions she still doesn't bring it up.

The relationship still confuses me even though she has tried explaining all of this to me several times. I am still confused because I haven't been able to ask all of the questions I want to ask yet because of being afraid of the answers.

Oh, and by "break" I didn't mean a break from seeing her or therapy but just a break from the intensity of the feelings I have about our relationship.

quote:

Anyone else had any success taking a break from intense, almost-obsessive type feelings for their T? (Or I guess anyone else if applicable?)

River, my direct answr to that is no. It seems to be picking up velocity the more time goes on. But I CAN say that I HAVE succeeded in breaking through the beariers of intense fear of beleiving she is going to leave me because she is disgusted with my neediness and transference. I so want her to like me and LOVE me and I I think I have finally learned that no matter what I say and no matter what I do she will never stop liking me and never stop loving me. It was by revealing the most shameful experiences and emotions that finally proved it this to be true.

You've shared enough about your T River that I truly beleive you have the same discovery waiting for you.
JM

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Oh, and by "break" I didn't mean a break from seeing her or therapy but just a break from the intensity of the feelings I have about our relationship.

When you figure this one out, could you tell me how you did it? I would be in awe of you!!

PL

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I HAVE succeeded in breaking through the barriers of intense fear of believing she is going to leave me because she is disgusted with my neediness and transference

I have never been afraid of her trying to get rid of me but I do fear hitting the proverbial brick wall that keeps the relationship at a safe professional level. I don't know exactly what I want or need or how much of it I need and I don't know exactly what it is she is willing to give or how much. I've tried asking but it always seems so vague. Human interactions in general are a mystery to me and I need illustrated step-by-step instructions to navigate through relationships with any confidence at all. I want to ask her for some very specifics answers without being disappointed by how little there probably is really available.

I am sure you are familiar with the saying "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, but teach him how to fish and you feed him for life." I guess what I want to know is therapy just about learning how to fish? I don't learn well on an empty stomach so is is possible to just get some actual fish first so I can then start to learn how to fend for myself? It just seems that any time I try asking for something from her what I get is a reason why I should learn how to do or be this for myself. I guess I thought before that I might get some fish first but I think I misunderstood or imagined it something.

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Sleep is the only thing that seems to keep my mind off of it for any length of time.

Me too. But then sometimes I even dream about her.

In re-reading my last post it seems that I am angry too.... oh she'll love that! T's love it when you get angry with them. Probably won't last until Monday though.

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In re-reading my last post it seems that I am angry too.... oh she'll love that! T's love it when you get angry with them. Probably won't last until Monday though.

Ok River, would you stop reading and publishing my thoughts?

I was so angry at our last session and I really took it oout on her and YES, she did seem to get a charge of delight in my being able to do that. She finally tapped into that unearthed anger. But I so hear the "Probably won't last until Monday though." -sad truth sometimes huh? But things have a way of working their way in as they need to.

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Anyone else had any success taking a break from intense, almost-obsessive type feelings for their T?

No. I thought since I wasn't seeing my son's former T anymore it would get easier but it really hasn't. Every time I do see her all the feelings come flooding back.

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Human interactions in general are a mystery to me and I need illustrated step-by-step instructions to navigate through relationships with any confidence at all.

I know exactly how you feel. It would be so much easier if they just gave us a manual with all the rules and boundaries all laid out for us. Does your T know this about you?

I think it is possible for you to get your fish, maybe you already have gotten a little? You can talk to her about things you didn't think you ever could. She has accepted you and your feelings regarding her. You don't have to worry about her trying to get rid of you. And, you are able to be angry at her (and maybe talk to her about that?). I know you want more, but sometimes we have to take the crumbs when we can get them.

Have you asked your T about her boundaries? I was always afraid to ask my son's T, because I didn't want to hear them either. I really wish I knew what they were, especially now. I don't know if I could really be getting more from her than I am now and I'm just missing out because I haven't asked, or if this is really it.

OW

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Have you asked your T about her boundaries? I was always afraid to ask my son's T, because I didn't want to hear them either. I really wish I knew what they were, especially now. I don't know if I could really be getting more from her than I am now and I'm just missing out because I haven't asked, or if this is really it.

You're absolutely going to hate this answer.
But the pain of NOT knowing is probably much worse than the sting of hearing the definite answer and then being able to accept where you stand and where you DO belong.

Boundaries can make me feel like such a dissatisfied child kicking a can down the street, but before I know it I see a bunch of kids at the end of the block motioning me to come play ball where I do belong.

I think we're better off knowing and we may have to hear it repeatedly, but that's ok.

quote:

But the pain of NOT knowing is probably much worse than the sting of hearing the definite answer and then being able to accept where you stand and where you DO belong.

JM

I have been thinking about this for quite some time. I want so badly to ask her for a hug, but I'm afraid of the answer. I think I need to ask her what her "general" policy is, so I don't take the answer personally. Which is something else I am working on.

I agree with you that knowing the answer is better than yearning for something I may never be able to have. I just need to get up the courage to ask. I know that she will handle it in a gentle way, I just don't know if I can handle it.

PL

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I have been thinking about this for quite some time. I want so badly to ask her for a hug, but I'm afraid of the answer. I think I need to ask her what her "general" policy is, so I don't take the answer personally. Which is something else I am working on.

I agree with you that knowing the answer is better than yearning for something I may never be able to have. I just need to get up the courage to ask. I know that she will handle it in a gentle way, I just don't know if I can handle it.

PL

Hi PL....

I would encourage you to ask her, and ask her why or why not. Make sure you understand it clearly. If it is her policy to have no physical contact with her clients it is far better to hear it than to experience it. I say this because I actually did it. BIG mistake. BIG disappointment. I will NEVER do it again!!!

I didn't do it because I was yearning for her to hold me...but because I wanted to feel closer to her and deepen my trust level with her. And because I have been with her for so long it felt incredibly unnatural to not have any physical contact with her.
Well...she had absolutely NO response to my giving her a hug. She was as stiff as a board and in no way returned my gesture. (A gesture that took enormous courage and all my ego strength) I am still trying to regain some of that back.

It has effected my trust level with her. And I fear that she is going to hurt me further.
This is clearly a backfire for me...and I suppose for her too. I don't think she expected me to react that way.
What she said to me was this: "this is the gift I am giving you." (The gift of not touching me, because I had been so harmed by touch.) She was clearly working from a transference point of view...I was not. For me...it had nothing to do with a transference. My response was something like this: "well...we seem to be giving each other gifts that neither one of us really wants." At that point I tried to laugh it off. But it wasn't funny...it was very painful and has caused me much damage.

I don't feel that she handled the situation very well...this is an area where I think that therapy needs to meet the needs of the individual and not follow a general policy. It was meant to bring us closer together (nothing more...nothing less)and it has only driven a wedge between us. I still have trouble with it. And wonder how I might have done it differently. I basically knew she didn't want to touch me...but I had to test it...for whatever reason...there are many reasons.

I guess my main point is that it hurt me and damaged my trust level with her. It also embarrassed and shamed me. It seemed to confirm all those terrible things I believe about myself. I am not worthy...I am ugly...I am dirty, untouchable and bad to the very core. This is where I took the rejection. So it became a transference issue for me. I'm angry about that...it was not a transference until she made it one...this is probably why she responded the way she did. She does seem to love to work transference. It is also possible that I knew this was going to happen and that I wanted to hurt myself.
I am not sure how to repair this damage. It is a nagging pain for me that I am unable to shake. And it is a part of the reason I am considering terminating with her after 18 years of work.

Be very careful around this issue, it really depends on the T and how she handles it. But I can tell you that it can hurt in ways that you can't imagine. I feel incredible vulnerable just writing this post. hmmmmm....
Anyway....I can tell you not to wait 18 years before you work on this!

SD