Hi All,

I'm new at the forum. Was reading it for a cople of days now. Came across it when one day I realized that I'm in love or something of that kind with my therapist. Because it freaked me out I started to search the web to find out more and understand. I came across transference and this website amoung others.

I'm just wondering how is it possible that the therapist would not be trained in dealing with transference. It seems so obvious to me that all therpaist should have the skills and knowledge to 'walk this through' with their patients/clients.
I'd appreciate your comments folks.

HB and Echo,

Thanks for your thoughts on CBT, it really helped. And Echo, I love your sticky idea. This experience taught me the importance of asking what "kind" of therapy a T or P practices.

My search for a new T continues. In an online search on Psychology Today, I found a woman therapist who does psychodynamic and relational therapy in the same town I was going to before, but not anywhere near the other clinic. It says she doesn't accept insurance, but she's relatively inexpensive. She's a pre-licensed professional with 5 years of experience. I sent her an email asking for an appointment.

Earlier this week I did something weird, probably because I was feeling desperate to talk to someone. I called our couples T at the other clinic and left a message. I told her my husband wasn't comfortable coming back for couples therapy (he doesn't want to run in to my ex-T after hearing about the transference stuff), and then asked if she would consider switching to individual with me (instead of sending me to that other T). And I made an appointment with her for Thursday.

Now I'm wondering why I did that...part of what I need to process is the feelings for the ex-T, and I won't feel safe talking to her about that, especially after she seemed to sweep them under the rug when it was happening. And running into my ex-T would be very painful no matter whether he said hi or not. I think I'm still hoping for one more chance at being understood, wanting them not to think I'm a pain-in-the-rear patient. Because if I can get her to understand where I was coming from, then maybe she can make him understand, and maybe we could have a termination "do-over" where my T acts a bit more compassionate, like he really is terminating me for my own good, and not because he can't wait to get rid of me.

Okay, now I know I'm dreaming...I guess I'm still processing some of that hurt. The inequality of the therapeutic relationship is so disorienting. I want to say, I don't understand how a T can be so cold about a termination. But then, I remember that this relationship was never even remotely as important to him as it was to me. Somewhere along the line I managed to forget about that, maybe because he's such a good actor (he can change character and imitate someone at the drop of a hat. It's kind of spooky). This opened me up to be hurt. And I just knew that would happen.

I'll cancel that appointment with the couples T. No matter how I look at it, going back to that clinic just sets me up to "hold things in" and will cause more pain. If I'm just going back to try to win the T's approval then I'm going back for the wrong reason, right? Right.

Moving on.
Good night,
SG

Hi Summer,

Thank you for sharing this with me...it helps more than I could say. But I'm sorry for the reason, that you went through something similar. Abrupt termination hurts so much. I'm glad you've been able to work through it and find healing in other ways. You are a very strong woman and an inspiration to me. I'm grateful for your example to follow and for your encouragement.

The couples T and I have been playing phone tag. She called yesterday afternoon as I was driving, a few minutes before her next appointment. I said I'd call her right back as soon as I pulled over, but by that time it was too late. But it kicked off thoughts of the old T again, and so I had another hard night last night wishing I could talk to my ex-T again and set everything "right". The ironic thing is that this is the reason I went to him in the first place, because of wanting to set everything "right" with the old BF. And my T knew that.

I keep wondering, how could he do this to me when he knew I was trying so hard. I can't tell whether his feelings were over-involved, or under-involved. In a fairly recent session, I showed him a rather graphic picture of this place I'm in when I'm scared of being rejected and abandoned. The picture is of a naked woman curled up on a bed in what looks like a small concrete basement. On the wall she's written the words Fear, Anger, Abandonment, Despair. There are a few other details that make it quite disturbing but I wanted him to have a good idea of the fear I was feeling in between sessions. He said what struck him about the picture was the vulnerability symbolized by her nakedness, and the grayness and bleakness of the room. So I thought he understood.

He also asked me to describe what it's like in that room. I wasn't feeling that way right then, so I asked if I could call him and ask for an extra appointment next time I was feeling that way. He said yes, he would have no problem with that, and then reassured me (again) that I don't have to worry so much about boundaries, that if I bump into one, we'll work together on straightening it out, that we're a team, and we're in the same boat. But obviously that boat sunk.

There was such a push-pull feeling to our therapy relationship once my husband wasn't in the room with us anymore. On the one hand, my T encouraged me repeatedly to talk more, to open up more (the "pull"). On the other hand, I couldn't shake the feeling that he was afraid of me and really wanted to get rid of me. On the few occasions when I was ready to "tell all", he seemed to sense this and would shut me down (the "push). And throughout it all I felt a strong sexual tension in the room. I don't know if it was coming from just me or if it was both of us. At one point I thought maybe I was feeling that way because the therapeutic setup is one where I'm psychologically "naked" and he's not. It made me think of that scene in "Titanic" where Rose is naked on the couch and Jack is sketching her. She's vulnerable, but instead of taking advantage of her vulnerability, Jack draws a picture of what he sees and hands it back to her. Maybe this sounds corny but I thought it was a perfect metaphor of how therapy should go, and I wanted so much to believe and trust that this is what would happen in our therapy sessions. But then, sometimes the way he'd ask questions almost felt like he was trying to make me take more off (the "pull" again). I'm sorry if I'm being too graphic here but I don't know how else to say it. This was one of the things I wanted to talk to him about and I was hoping he'd understand but now I can't.

I also keep hoping that he will "realize" how much this hurt me, and invite me back for one more session so we can wrap things up in a more positive way. You've mentioned that hope before, and it always comes to mind as a wake-up call for me, that I'm probably not going to get it. Sometimes I think, what would be the harm in telling me how he "really" felt at this point? He won't be my T anymore, so why not just tell me what happened on his end, so I'm not left with all these questions? Is it because he's written me off as being too much trouble? Or is it because he really cares? And why is it so important to me that he really cares? Is that a sign that I became too dependent on him?

As you can see I'm still really struggling with this. I've been hesitant to post any more about it because I don't want to keep repeating myself. I really do want to move on. Thank you so much for your support. I've received so much on this board in the way of understanding and encouragement, it's incredible. Sometimes I think I'm receiving more therapy here than I did in therapy. At any rate I'm more grateful for it than I can possibly say.

I have an appointment on Wednesday with a female T who does psychodynamic and relational therapy. She is a pre-licensed professional with only 5 years of experience, but so far she is the closest match I've been able to find for the kind of therapy I'm looking for. So why not try? I'm looking forward to meeting her.

Take care,
SG

SG... I just wanted to make a quick comment here. The picture you described that you showed your ex-T to try to explain how you felt at times...it sounds like the place I got to when I feel that way which is what I call my "black hole". I have discussed this on numerous ocassions with my T. My feelings circle around self-hate, shame, fear, disgust, and hopelessness. To my amazement when doing attachment research I came across a trauma expert, Bessel van der Kolk who describes the "black hole" feeling in his research. If I remember correctly it was in an article on this website with a lot of attachment/trauma articles. It's Diana Fosha's site for AEDP therapy. You may want to check it out...

http://www.aedpinstitute.com/articles.html

TN

TN,

Thank you so much for that link to the AEDP (Accelerated Experiential-Dynamic Psychotherapy) website. Among other things, now I have the official "term" for the kind of therapy I thought we were doing. I'm meeting with the couples T one last time on Thursday for closure's sake (if I don't chicken out first) and this is one of the references I'm going to leave with her. I know I can't change the way they do therapy - and I'm not trying to - but the comments made at that transfer session indicated that the reason I was transferred is because I was pursuing a romantic relationship with my T. At least if I give her a list of references she'll know I really was trying to do therapy. Then I'll just have to let it go.

HB,

Thank you for reassuring me that wanting him to care, and feeling some sexual tension, were normal responses to the intimacy of the therapy relationship. It helps to know that.

quote:

It is often that point that is so unbearable for us and we literally go mad with wanting to know. But if you hear someone else's answer you lose this incredible opportunity to start hearing your own voice and trusting your own feelings. I am not sure if i am capturing the essence of what i am trying to say here, but when you can care irrespective of how the person you care about feels about you, i think you have touched a whole new way of living in the world.

You captured this difficult point beautifully. It's much easier to care about someone when I know they care about me, so it's possible that my caring about them is a reaction to their caring...but if I choose to care without knowing, then it must be coming from within me, and that means I'm free to care without depending on something outside of myself.

Nah...you still said it better . Thank you, HB.

Overall, I think I'm meandering in this general direction, but with setbacks when I start to care too much about how he really felt. But it seems cyclical and the setbacks are getting smaller (I think). When I'm sure I've let it go (probably after working through it with the new T), I want to send him a letter telling him all the things I learned from him and thanking him without any kind of blaming or complaining. I also really want to continue the "therapy gold" project, which has sparked an interest in wood-burning and woodcarving. And I'm excited about that.

SG

Hi SG,
I don't have a lot to add to the discussion because you are getting fantastic insight from many wise women, but I did want you to know that I am reading and that you are often in my thoughts and prayers. And far from posting too much, I think it's a very generous thing you're doing in coming and talking about what you're going through there. There are so many people who read here and you have no idea how you're experience is resonating with them. And I know that you are struggling with feeling overwhelmed and like you're not handling this well, but please know you're doing beautifully. You are displaying an incredible grace and strength as you face this. I am so glad to see that you are looking for a new therapist and not giving up on your healing because of what happened.

Summer,
Would you allow me to tell you that it has been amazing and humbling to watch how you've grown since you started posting on this site? You're courage in facing your feelings and understanding yourself after your sudden termination are an inspiration. And so is watching you reach out and use your experience to help someone else facing the same problem.

AG

SG, I'm very happy if the link to the AEDP website was helpful to you. I read all of the articles on there and found them interesting and helpful in understanding a lot of what I was feeling in therapy and also in explaining the Dyadic relationship. I printed out many of the articles and read and shared some of them with my T. The one article where it talks about how we change our Ts as we ourselves change really struck a chord in me and when I shared it with my T we talked about how much working with me has changed him (for the better). That made me feel very good. Anyway... I know you need closure to your old clinic relationships and if this helps you I can feel good. The fact that you were interested in looking at the transference in a therapeutic way while they were trying to treat you as if you were pursuing a romantic relationship with your T or that you had a problem with being attracted to unavailable men still leaves me shocked and unsettled at how clueless they are. I just want to add here that I admire your courage and perserverence. You have handled this all so well and I'm glad to see you return to the Board to share your experience and to help others.

TN

Summer... we have had a lot of conversation over these past months but I just want to say that you should write about your experience as much as you need to until you heal. And there is a healing in talking about what happened over again and through many different lenses. I just want to say that it was very gracious of you to send your old P a thank you note with a photo. I'm sure it made him happy to hear from you. I am convinced that he left so suddenly because he had a real illness that prevented him from doing his work as a P. I imagine that for someone doing this work for so many years and caring about his patients it was incredibly hard for him to leave you, especially since he seemed so fond of you. I do believe that he had little choice in the matter.

Your voice here has been helpful to many, so keep sharing.

TN

quote:

you are getting fantastic insight from many wise women

I couldn't agree more, AG I'm so grateful to all the "wise women" of this board, including you. The way I've been feeling, any grace or strength coming through is largely "borrowed" from you all...but hopefully some of it will grow on me eventually Thank you for your reassurance and encouragement, especially with what you are going through right now. I'm always happy to see you posting and like others on the board have said, I miss you, but I know you'll be back stronger than ever. It helps me to know I am in your prayers...please know that you are in mine, too.

SG

Just wanted to say to Summer that I hope your appointment went well. I've gone about trying to meet up with a new T via email (basically because I don't have the confidence to ring up...how silly is that!) and I'm waiting on tenterhooks to get a response. I want it and I don't want it if you know what I mean. I'm still reeling from finishing up (funnily enough the first phrase that came to mind was "breaking up with my T"!) with my T.

And to SG, I want to wish you all the best with your work at the moment. You, as well as many others on this forum are so eloquent and open in sharing your experiences and I, for one, want to say a big thank you to you all. And I think your idea for sending a letter once you have "let go" is a really nice and positive idea

Hi Summer,

Forgive me...maybe you posted this but I can't recall...are you looking for a new P to replace your current T? Or to see concurrently with your T? Are there things that a P addresses that a T doesn't? I'm just asking for my own information - I've never seen a P but I might consider it if I knew more about the difference.

Earlier in this thread you said you hoped this P could help give you more insight into what happened with your ex-P.

quote:

"I knew him professionally but I was VERY surprised to hear what happened."

It certainly sounds like she could give you more insight into what happened. I'm wondering if she said this because she assumed you already knew. It would be a strange thing to say if she thought you didn't...in fact, it sounds like she might have been inviting you to talk about it. But now you are left hanging, again.

I'm sure it's really hard for you to decide what to do next. You could walk away, or you could go back and ask for more information. I can really feel your discouragement in how you said this:

quote:

I think it's time for me to find ways on my own to deal with it.

Would it be possible, and more helpful, to find a P who doesn't know your ex-P? If he had over 50 years experience (wow!) then I suppose it would be near impossible to find someone who doesn't.

I wish your T could be more help to you. I'm sorry this didn't go as well as you'd hoped. (((((Summer)))))

SG

Hi Summer.

it's interesting to hear about your relationships with your current P and T and how they vary from that of your ex-P. I think that is the main problem with close relationships with T/Ps-that it is so hard for others to measure up to them afterward. It can also be the case that what works for you was more in line with the way your ex-P worked than your current one. But I'm thinking it might be good to try out something new for a change, and it doesn't seem as if the current T is totally refusing the idea of renewing your prescription. Though I do get your frustration with the money issue. Recently I was ill and between that and getting my antidepressants updated I had to go to the doctor's 3 times in one week along with the cost of all the meds! Not fun. Or cheap!

I hope you can find the right balance. I have only every worked with counselors and recently, when my doctor was prescribing meds she asked me if I had ever been to a psychiatrist. Embarrassingly I barely knew the difference. So after googling it (the source of all info!) I see that a P is someone who can prescribe meds also. Though I'm still unsure about the difference between a T and a counsellor.

Good luck with the exercise anyway and let us know how you are getting on.

CL