I'm feeling anxious right now and just need to "talk". The couples T is supposed to call me back today. I also checked to make sure that my remaining appointments with my T had been canceled (because one of them was tomorrow), and they had.

A few days back I finally had a couple days' worth of clarity and acceptance about being referred. Yesterday and now today, I'm dreading what our couple's T is going to say to me and how she's going to say it. Last time I talked to her, she seemed surprised when I told her that we'd been talking about transference for several months. I don't know if this is a realistic fear, but I'm afraid that he might have gotten in a little bit of trouble for not referring me sooner because he wasn't "trained" to do that kind of therapy. I'm also afraid of what my T thinks of me now and having a hard time letting it go. And I'm afraid that he might have told her I'm making it all up. So I'm mostly a big ball of fear right now.

I'm also going to miss talking with him. Even though our sessions were always mainly about the therapy, I really enjoyed his sense of humor, his intelligence, and his energy. I liked to hear how he thought through things. But I won't miss the fear of rejection or abandonment that went with it. Now that it happened, and I'm through the worst of the grief (I hope), I'm starting to feel some sense of relief.

Well that's about it...just wanted to share.

Thanks,
SG

Our couples T called back a little while ago. She was very nice…she said she had arranged for my transfer to the new T, that she is very experienced and has done lots of family of origin work. She also told me that the meeting tomorrow morning is a transitional meeting between my old T, my new T, and me, so my old T can summarize for the new T where we’re at, and I’ll have a chance to contribute, to meet my new T, and also say good-bye to my old T. I told her I didn’t know I was supposed to be there. She said I sounded anxious about that. I said I’d like a heads-up as to what my old T is going to say because our last session didn’t go very well, and I didn’t want any more surprises. She said she didn’t know exactly, but it sounded to her like we tried to work through the issues and just couldn’t go any farther. I asked if my T was upset with me and she said no, not at all. She said I’ve been very open about bringing up the issues, and assertive about asking for what I need, and that I’ll be in very good hands with the new T. She also confirmed with me that my husband and I will continue seeing her for couples work.

Now I’m feeling bad about a lot of the posting I’ve done...no one is actually blaming me for anything. Also not shaming, rejecting, or abandoning. That must have come from me and my overactive imagination, jumping to conclusions and trying to read minds. Why do I always assume the worst?

Well, maybe the new T will be able to answer that. I’m really nervous about tomorrow. I’ll let you know how it goes.

Cheers,
SG

Hi Summer,

I was so scared by the time our couples T called, I was relieved to just have it "smoothed over". It bothered me a little that she didn't address the concerns brought up last time I talked to her, like why my old T was doing that kind of therapy when no one at that clinic is trained to do it, and what did her review team think of the printouts I brought. But I do believe he was doing his best to help me.

When we first started seeing him, we told him that the first couple therapists we had tried hadn't worked out. Judging from some things he said to us, and to me later, I think he felt personally responsible to make sure it worked this time. Seeing that pedestal probably made it worse, like I expected him to be a hero. And wanting to be a hero isn't bad - it's probably why a lot of T's become T's, right? So maybe that's why he kept trying to help long after he should have referred me.

Argh, I'm doing it again - trying to figure out my T.

The only thing our couples T said to me today by way of explanation for the transfer was "We don't want to hurt our clients. That's a no-no." She said that a couple of times. I'm not exactly sure how to interpret that and I was too scared to ask her to explain. It's hurting me to have feelings for him that aren't possible to fulfill, and that may hurt my marriage, maybe?

Thanks for your encouragement, Summer - I really appreciate it
SG

Hi Echo,

I don't mind you asking that - it's a very important question. When the subject of my attraction to my T first came up, I didn't tell my husband because I was afraid he would feel threatened or jealous about my going to therapy. I had been reading a lot about transference at the time, so I knew that it could be really useful, but also really confusing, so I figured I would tell him after I'd worked through it and could explain it better.

Later in the therapy, my T decided to move the couples therapy to a different T and continue individual therapy with me, because by that time we'd been meeting long enough that there would be a bias if we tried to return to couples therapy with him. I asked my T if I should tell my husband about the transference work. He said no, not because it's a secret, but because it could be misunderstood, and I could tell him later, when we'd gotten past this point. This made sense to me at the time.

But when we brought my husband back for a session to discuss the plan for couples therapy, I felt uneasy about it. I knew that there was nothing "wrong" with transference, but it just felt wrong not telling him. I am still questioning myself as to why I didn't tell him. I mean, it's MY marriage. Just because my T recommended I not tell him, didn't mean I couldn't.

We only had a few more sessions after that, and then that last one. I told my husband then. He took it amazingly well and was very supportive. He only made one threat regarding my T, that he wants to stake him over an anthill and cover him with syrup. But he said it with a smile (and not an evil one, either )

I thought for sure he'd get jealous over the next 3-4 days when I couldn't stop crying and couldn't eat, but he didn't seem to. A few days ago, we were talking about it again, when I was speculating that maybe my T just asked about my transference to entertain himself (I was in a low spot again), and then I said, "Well, he didn't really hurt me, he just hurt my ego." And my husband replied, "I don't know about that. The way you were crying, it sounded like he hurt your heart, too."

He said this without any bitterness or jealousy or anger at all. It was just a simple statement, but it was right on. And I was stunned. I really, really, REALLY don't understand my husband at all. And I don't understand why I don't put HIM on the pedestal.

That's actually one of the main reasons I went into therapy in the first place. Maybe one of these days, I will!

Good night,
SG

My T met with me and my new T this morning. First he said he knew that the transfer was hard, but I shouldn't think of it as being punished or failing or starting over. He gave a recap of our time together, how it started and where it went. It went fine until we got to the transference part. My T said it was obvious to him and to his review team, from the letter I wrote to him and my reactions during the last session, that he has lost all effectiveness as a therapist because I am focusing too much on my relationship with him, instead of on my therapy goals. I tried to explain about how with people who have attachment injuries, looking at the way the patient attaches to the therapist and working it out IS the therapy, and I can eventually apply it to my life - I even tried describing AG's story because she was kind of in the same situation - but they both just kept shaking their heads and said it sounds like I'm reading all kinds of stuff and probably getting confused as to what it means. She said I need to look at why I'm attracted to unavailable men, and he said I need to look at the way I relate to men. Then he got up, shook my hand, said good luck, and left.

For the last half hour she tried to get to know me, but I started crying almost as soon as he was gone. I tried to answer her questions, but after a while I said I really don't want to get started looking at family of origin stuff just yet, I'm feeling really sad about being transferred. She said I could leave if I want and just ponder over that and we could start again next time. I tried to ask her some questions about herself and her background, but she started asking why is that important to me. She asked since I've been studying psychology, what do I think the reason is that I'm attracted to unavailable men. I said that's a really good question but I can't answer it right now. She seemed to get exasperated with me and said she really does want to help me.

They really seem to know what they are talking about, but I'm more confused than ever. I do not want to go back to her, I felt no connection to her at all and she seemed to have no real empathy for how I was feeling about my T. Neither of them are interested in hearing about what I've been reading and how I've been interpreting it. And they sound so sure that I'm mistaken. I'm sorry to sound so negative, and I know you're all going to want to encourage me to keep going, but I simply don't think I have the energy to keep doing this if it only makes things worse. I gave this therapy all I had, I was as honest as I knew how to be, I opened up some really old hurts and risked showing them to my T, and he didn't understand. Maybe I really am misinterpreting everything and even unknowingly misrepresenting it here. Which makes me feel really bad because you've all been so good about responding and sharing your own stories. Thank you for that, and no matter what, I really wish you all the best in your journeys. You're a wonderful group of people with lots of heart.

SG

Hi SG,
May I once again commend you for how well you're handling all this? I really am amazed!

I agree with Summer that I think your T is doing the ethical thing in referring you out if he thinks he's in over his head. BUT I don't like the way that the clinic is leaving you out of the decision making process. I get this feeling that you're being treated like a child. The adults went off and discussed the problem and are now informing you that you're going to a new T without discussing it with you. In my experience therapy is a very collaborative process and I know one of the things I respect and value about my T is that he really is humble in that yes, he brings his experience to the process but he is also very open to my input and assumes that I know myself better and can discern what I need. Therapists who think they don't need to listen to a patient can really miss the things that they need to hear.

On the other hand, I am glad that you're getting clear feedback that no one thought you did anything wrong, since you didn't! I'd really like to know how it goes if you're up to posting about it.

Hi Echo,
I know you asked SG but I thought I'd chime in since my husband has known about my erotic/parental transference from the beginning. I actually went to my T and told him about the attraction when my husband and I were going for couples counseling (he was my husbands' T first) and before I was working with him individually. After I told my T, I realized that it would be very uncomfortable being in a session with both of them, knowing that my T and I both knew how I felt and my husband didn't. Since we were working on communication and intimacy problems this seemed especially problematic. So the next morning I told my husband how I was feeling and that I had talked to our T and at our next couples session we all discussed it. My husband has been really great about it and I have been pretty open with him, although I must admit to not being completely open about the intensity of the longings. But part of what has made it easier to handle is that by being so open from the very beginning, my husband and I have both felt very confident that I am "safe" and nothing will happen. Now my husband does have the advantage of both knowing and trusting my T and the fact that we occasionally discuss it really helps. I must say that it's made it much easier to deal with because I haven't had to hide it when I've been upset.

AG

That sounds really disheartening. I don't think you've been misinterpreting, it sounds like you've got a pretty clear idea about the stuff that is discussed here.

I don't think that the question "why are you attracted to unavailable men" is even relevant for this situation. It's almost inevitable that you will be attracted to them in some way. Here's a person who is spending time listening intently to every word you say, being compassionate and non-judgmental.


The sorts of relationships you create, you do it with your therapist too. The therapeutic relationship is so important. I think my T and I discuss things about our relationship probably 60% of the time we are talking. If you can't connect with this new therapist either, can you try and find another?

SG,
I must have been posting my last reply at the same time you were posting yours. You are NOT imagining things. Heather said 60% of the time, I'm probably closer to 90% of the time. Now the discussions about the relationship usually lead me to identify things or beliefs from my past but it through the relationship that these things are displayed so we can look at them. The relationship is the medium in which we do our work.

Is there anywhere else close enough to your home where you can get therapy? The problem isn't with you, it's with the idiots at this clinic. How dare they presume to tell you how you're feeling!! or what it means!! Their job is to LISTEN to you so that they can discern YOUR patterns and help YOU understand them so you can changet what YOU want to. Not decided what the optimal life is and tell you what to feel and how to lead it. Forgive how strongly this is worded (and trust me I am behaving and not using a lot of the words I'd like to) but I do not like the way you're being treated. I find it scary actually that these people are therapists. I mean, for a therapist not to recognize that ending a theraputic relationship would need some time and processing is reprehensible. My husband and I were going to my T for couples counseling when my first T told me she was retiring (in six months time, btw so we would have time to process it) and I'll never forget his reaction when I told him. He was really concerned, said what a major and difficult change this would be and wanted to know how I was feeling. And he continued to bring it up throughout the time I was terminating and after.

I'm so sorry, SG, you're working so hard and I believe, doing everything you should, and being treated so badly. You deserve so much more and I'm sorry that you're going through this.

AG

quote:

They really seem to know what they are talking about

I beg to differ in the strongest possible terms.

Hi SG... it's good to see you here posting again. I've been thinking about you and wondering how you are doing. I'm sorry you have had such bad experiences with Ts disappointing you and yes, throwing you under the bus. Therapy is supposed to be healing.

Please do not put any blame onto yourself. You said it... the patient should be able to express any and all feelings and to talk about what they choose. The T's job is to contain the feelings and help the patient sort through the feelings. Your T was inept in handling transference and he was also getting off on your feelings for him. Whether or not he had any feelings should have been irrelevant. Your needs were important and not his. He just didn't get that it was NOT about him. And I think he liked making the others on the team feel that it was about him and he was just too irresistable for you to continue therapy. He was just out of his depth and the fact that you were informed and understood about what was happening was more than he could deal with.

I think you are handling things very well. You were thirsty for getting your needs met.. the ones that were never met in childhood. You were discovering you had the capacity to have an intimate therapeutic relationship...and to form an attachment. Of course it felt good... you had been missing this in your life. If you were freezing outside in the winter cold and someone opened their door and said "come in and sit by my fire to warm up and have some hot chocolate" it would feel good too. Should you feel guilty about that? Or ashamed that you would rather be inside instead of out in the freezing cold? No. Well it's the same thing. So please just put away the blame and the shame over what happened.

I know you feel an urgency to finish what was started and you really do need a competent T to help undo the damage caused by your ex-T. The fact that you feel close to solving what has plagued you for so long is a good thing. Would it be possible to find a T in private practice... someone who is not connected with a clinic? Could you ask your medical doctor for some referrals?

Please keep posting and let us know how things are going for you. Let me know if I can be of any help.

TN

Hi everyone,

I deleted the last couple of posts because having that anger sitting out there really bothered me. It may be understandable to feel it, and express it within the containment of therapy, but I couldn't shake the feeling that it was just too toxic to put up here. So I deleted them. But I still want to thank you for your ongoing understanding and encouragement.

I called a couple of places today that look promising. Both of them say they treat trauma-related issues as well as marriage and family issues.

One of them is a private practice an hour away from where I live, but in the opposite direction from where I was going. There is just one therapist but he's got over 20 years experience. He also claims to integrate faith with psychology (his education includes a Masters in "Divinity" ) and that interests me for personal reasons (understanding not everyone is looking for that, of course). They just called back and I made an appointment for next Tuesday morning.

The other one is also a private practice that, unfortunately, is kitty-corner across the street from where I was going. There are two therapists there, a man and a woman, both with over 20 years experience. The reason I'm interested in that one is because they also do hypnotherapy. I'm wondering if that might help me resolve some of this longing for what I didn't get as a child.

From what I've been reading in books and on this board, I believe that this is what is behind the longing for the old BF. Running into him triggered a longing so strong that it can't possibly be just about him. And unless one of us moves, in a couple of years I'll be running in to him regularly because our kids will be going to the same school. I want to have worked through my whatever my issue is, and make my marriage strong, so that it won't trigger that longing again. That's why I'm being so stubborn about getting to the bottom of this.

Thank you for helping me get through the past few weeks, and for taking the time to give me your support and encouragement. I will keep posting to let you know how it goes. And I look forward to continuing to get to know all of you.

Take care,
SG

TN and Summer,

I also loved the fire/hot chocolate analogy. That's exactly what talking and laughing with him felt like, for while, anyway. I miss him.

Thank you both for reminding me not to dwell on shaming or blaming. It doesn't help anything, does it? Reminds me of a movie quote:

"I never look back, dahling. It detracts from the Now." - Edna, in The Incredibles (referring to Mr. Incredible's old super suit)

I need to remember this.

strummergirl

Hi SG... I just wanted to say sorry that I was MIA from the Board this week. With family, work and school things have been busy. Also had a really gut wrenching therapy session on Monday. Oh, my T was wonderful as usual... it was just the subject matter that was tough.

I am really happy to hear that you have two potential Ts lined up to meet with. Take your time deciding and maybe go in with a list of questions written down so that you don't get nervous and forget what you wanted to ask about. Look around their office, ask about policy and procedures and how they schedule etc. This is about you and how comfortable you feel working with them. You are doing the interviewing not them.

I think you have handled everything very well and I'm really impressed. I'm also happy to see you here on the Board posting again and offering support to others. I do think helping others also helps us. Have you heard anything from your old clinic? Are you also looking for a new couples therapist?

I do know that despite what happened you will still miss your old ex-T. That is only human and don't feel guilty about it at all. I'm sorry if my hot chocolate scenario brought you any painful memories.

Let us know how you are doing and what happens in your interviews with the new Ts. Best wishes on that.

TN

Hi TN...no sorry necessary, but it's always good to hear from you. Your support has been priceless. I would have been lost without you and the encouragement from others on this board. I can't thank you enough, so I'll just say it again: Thank you!!!

Now that school is back in session our days are flying by too. I'm glad to hear you're holding up under some tough therapy and I hope it brings some rewards for all your hard work. Your T sounds pretty amazing.

Thanks for the well-wishes on the T-search. The T who does hypnotherapy is not covered under our insurance so I ruled him out. And thanks for suggesting the list of questions - I've started one already for the other T I'm seeing on Tuesday. I will definitely be much more careful before jumping in again. Depending on how it goes, he'll probably be our couples T, and I'll continue looking for an individual T, probably a woman this time, to work through my feelings about what happened with the ex-T.

I haven't heard anything more from the other clinic and don't really expect to, or want to. I'd just like to learn from what happened and move on. Today I realized that it felt so good to have someone who was paying attention, that I minimized several signs that he was not really tuned in. I mean, there were some really BIG red flags flapping in the breeze. Not that it makes him a bad T...he's actually a very good T, I believe...he just wasn't the right T for me, at least not long term. It helps to go back through the journal I kept because I can see lots of good things he gave me. "Therapy gold." I'm still going to do that project.

As far as how I'm feeling, yesterday I was on another down-turn, and those really suck, but today I'm back up. And every time I come up, it's better than the last time. I think acceptance is starting to settle in, and it's a good thing. And I learned some new things...and relearned some old things on a deeper level...I would go in to more detail, but some of it (actually a lot of it) has to do with my faith, and I'm not sure how much of that I can talk about here without offending. So I'll keep it general for now.

And I loved your hot chocolate analogy. I think I just got a little too close to that fire but no permanent damage done. At least no more than was already there.

I hope you're having a good weekend! Take care...
SG

Thanks, HB! It is so good to hear from you again. Thanks for your comfort and encouragement.

I've been doing a lot of speculating, sorting, writing, trying to figure out what happened. In doing so, I've read a lot more about the different approaches to therapy. He does CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy), and when I read the detailed descriptions, I can see many ways in which he tried to help me, and he did (focusing on how thoughts affect feelings and actions, and challenging those thoughts to bring about changes, is my rough understanding now). As far as the transference goes, I think he was trying to help me with that too, only from a CBT perspective - I think that's called "eclectic", where a therapist pulls from various disciplines to create their own custom approach. However, I was doing all kinds of reading here and elsewhere, from sort of a psychodynamic/attachment theory perspective, and making assumptions that we were going to look much deeper at the transference. When I look at it that way, a lot of the misunderstandings make sense to me now. He was only looking at the transference from a behavioral perspective, where I wanted to get at the unconscious stuff as triggered by my feelings and thoughts about him. But that's not what he does, and I think that's what he was trying to tell me. It would explain why he kept stopping me. And from my perspective, it would also explain why it felt so awful to be stopped, and then transferred. I wish they would at least say they understand.

I would LOVE to be able to get together with my ex-T and couples T one more time (I don't think they'd let me meet with him alone again, but that's okay) to clear things up. That last session was pretty awful and I hate leaving things that way. Not that it would matter to him, but it really matters to me. Maybe if I tell him I understand now what he was trying to say, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, we can end on a more positive note.

Anyway that's where we're at...I'll post later and let you all know how the interview goes with the potential new T tomorrow.

Good night
SG