(((SG)))

Oh what your poor little girl self went through. It isn't fair. I sort of grew up with a similar image about women being weak and sex objects. My dad had a "boys will be boys" mens club approach to parenting and life and "the only thing women were good for"... "HA HA HA! But you should know I'm only joking," make me puke, inapproriate saditsic humor. Rrrrrright! BITE ME!

It's no wonder I had to create male personas believing that boys were better and stronger than girls. And for a tiny little scrapper I could usually beat the S*** out of any boys who provoked me.

quote:

I started to see her after everything that I went through and I literally took out pictures of myself as a toddler and would look at them and cry.

I did the exact same thing SG! I even took a cpl pics in to show my T to which she replied that I was as angelic as she had imagined. LOL! Ok, yeah whatever.

I can understand why Dr X struck your transference chord so deeply SG. He sounds so warm and caring and not looking at you in that wrong hurtful way. How refreshing that must feel for you to be cared for as the remarkable indiviual that you are and not because you are some sex object or lowly gender. He sounds so gentle and compassionate in his approach, the way I wish my father would have been. Whenever I have seen fathers behave so tenderly to their children it always seemed so odd.

I am glad you got in touch with your little girls self and keping a picture of her out is a good idea. I might have to do that. But I never used to give her the time of day either. I used to ignore her like all the other adults in her life. But no more! Never again!

Its good to hear from you SG.
JM

My T asked to see pictures of me (and the family) and she couldn't get over what a cute little girl I was and how could someone be so mean to her? "Because they are f'ed up," was my response!

I remember looking in Dr. X's eyes and scanning his face when I was trying to tell him about the trauma, and quite honestly, I wasn't sure I could trust him based on what I saw. I told him a little as if I were testing him, just enough that he knew something horrible had happened to me. In response to that, he softened considerably and I knew my story would be safe with him whenever I decided to tell it in full. I often picture my little girl self standing next to him as he holds my hand and we walk through the hospital together.

But always...in the back of my head is what I read about a transferred replay; that I see something familiar in him from the past. That haunts me.

Anyway, I didn't go as "tomboy" as it sounds like you did, but I hid my sexuality (I was very overweight until recently), I didn't care about my body at all, and have just not presented as very feminine, not that anyone has to do so of course, but I just had this feeling that I wanted to be invisible.

(((JM))) as well!

SG

quote:

My T asked to see pictures of me (and the family) and she couldn't get over what a cute little girl I was and how could someone be so mean to her? "Because they are f'ed up," was my response!

Isn't it nice that our T's take that kind of time for us to show genuine interest and concern that they even get upset at how we were treated and the injustices we suffered? I think these are some of the most significant sessions we have when we share something personal and meaningful that way and get such an authentic response and connection. I love feeling that my T is entirely on my side.

I was a bit of a tomboy. I traded my beautiful little dresses and favorite dolls for blue jeans, and cars and trucks when I was about 7 years old. A very pivotol age for me I am finding out. And as for invisible, I just believed I was. I remember the last day of school in 2nd grade my teacher was lining us up to go home and she asked each of us what we were going to do for the summer...everyone but me. And when I tried to speak up and tell her my exciting news that we were moving far away she just ignored me and talked with all the other kids. This from a teacher I had two years in a row. She was sort of distant anyway, but I still remember this so it was very hurtful. I didn't have to pretend or want to be invisible. I went from being the vibrant, adored baby of the family to being a nuisance and in the way it seemed over night somehow. I learned to withdraw and to internalize very young and my mothers first battle with breast cancer was about this time in my life too. It all added up to too much to compete with for attention and I found it easier to just dissociate and pretend none of this was real.

It seems like a lot to undue sometimes.

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I was a bit of a tomboy. I traded my beautiful little dresses and favorite dolls for blue jeans, and cars and trucks when I was about 7 years old.

Oh JM - say it isn't so!!!!! Dolls?? Yuk! I had no time for that! Now climbing trees, getting dirty, having perpetual skinned knees - that was the life! You totally must be my twin!! (although quite a bit younger )

I saw my little girl self about a year ago. I saw myself at about 6 yrs. old skipping along on a plate of glass that surrounded the world. As long as I was above the world by myself, I was happy and ok. But I had a huge fear of the glass shattering, and falling to the world below.

This actually really frightened me and I called my T and cried on the phone to her. At my next session we talked a little about it and she said it was significant, but we really haven't spent too much time on it. Other things interfered with just "my stuff" and sometimes things get complicated because we have to take care of too many things at the same time. That is why after 2 yrs. I still have not finished grieving for my mom. Other things come up and some things get put on the back burner for awhile. I don't know if this makes any sense. In clearer terms, I'm dealing with more than one trauma that took place in a very small amount of time. therefore, it seems like I can't resolve any one in the short amount of time I want, because they all interfere with each other.

PL

quote:

I was a bit of a tomboy. I traded my beautiful little dresses and favorite dolls for blue jeans, and cars and trucks when I was about 7 years old.

Wow, that sounds like me too!! JM, you are so right when you say

quote:

Isn't it nice that our T's take that kind of time for us to show genuine interest and concern that they even get upset at how we were treated and the injustices we suffered?

My T makes me feel so special. I am finding out that she is the connection I have been missing all my life. My mom was very sick when I was young and for quite a few years I was away from home. I think I lost alot growing up. All I knew was to do as I was told, and had no thoughts of my own. I didn't even realize I missed some steps growing up until my T pointed it out to me. I see it now, and how much I have missed in the growing up department. I don't know how to feel or how to talk to people or....I just don't know what it feels like to be loved. If it is anything like what I get from my T, I sure like it.

My T makes me feel really good about myself. I love my T.

Kats

quote:

...their inability to understand their vital role in our most intimate needs.

JM, this is so totally correct. It's an inability to GET IT when it comes to what their role actually is/was. I would also add that in a lot of cases, it's also an unwillingness to LEARN or even to WANT to understand. The example of my mom buying my dad that book about raising a son and him telling her, basically, to go to hell is a perfect example. He never understood his role, and didn't want to understand. He just wanted to work, come home, have his dinner and gin on the rocks and fall asleep watching TV.

Russ

JM, yes it is great to have that interest! My dad was never interested and my mom lost interest after I was about ten because in her words, "you just seemed to be grown up so young!" That should have been a clue that something was wrong, eh mom?

Russ, my dad was the same way. He was unwilling to learn; to him being a dad was belittling and criticizing me. I remember getting a marching band set for my birthday one year. It had the one plastic drum and then the tambourine and such were stored inside the drum. I tried to get him to play with me and he did but was really reluctant and only did for a minute, just long enough for my mom to take pictures. I remember feeling rejected by that.

SG

quote:

Originally posted by SprintingGal:
I tried to get him to play with me and he did but was really reluctant and only did for a minute, just long enough for my mom to take pictures. I remember feeling rejected by that.
SG

SG,

i really believe that this kind of stuff is so so damaging. you felt rejected because children are just as perceptive as adults when it comes to reading their parents...probably more. i have a real problem with people who don't take playing with their children seriously.

JM, PL, Katz- I completely resonate with the tomboy thing. I ALWAYS had a ball in my hand and wanted to throw or hit something! There was no reason to be dainty- that meant I was weak! I also had a very tomboyish mom too, so some of it came from me emulating her.

Russ and SG- I also know what you mean about parents not taking the time to interact. I have these distinct memories of trying to physically pull my dad from the couch to play with me! He would go limp and try to avoid it. He wasn't abusive or belittling, just EFFFING PASSIVE. He would just say "maybe later" which meant no, he just couldn't say it. He let my mom abuse my brother and I like crazy (and himself too), and just took it. His favorite line when I was growing up and my mother would say awful things was "just let it go in one ear and out the other." I'm sorry, but that doesn't work when your mom tells you to leave and never come back. Something sticks when those kinds of comments are made.

I digress... as for the feminine part of me, it stayed under wraps until I was about 17 or 18. I spent a very long time trying to have no sexuality at all. I was taught that women got abused and that men were abusers (despite my family dynamics). I wanted no part of either, so I tried to be nothing. And I didn't want to feel anything- I actually remember trying to see how long I could go without having to actually touch another person- I could last for days, wouldn't even hug my friends in jr. high or high school!

As for my little girl, she has been neglected for a very long time. I have tried to make her shut up, but she won't. I'm just now learning that I have to engage her in order to move forward. I still feel stupid though, almost like I'm afraid someone is going to find out that I am being nice to her and reprimand me for it. <--- Lil bit of shame there still! And I don't see her yet. It's more of a feeling and a voice for me, like someone saying, "hey, what about me?"

Thanks for listening
-CT

JM,PL,Kats & C Tran:
I too can totally relate to being a tomboy...well actually in my world, I was a boy. I learned very young being a girl meant weakness and being a daughter meant Dad can abuse you. Mind you I let nobody in on the secret, I knew my Mother would shun me for my belief, I was a boy. I tolerated girl clothes, blah. After I started college I met some strong women that helped change my perspective on gender. My T is the first person to whom I've shared my childhood secret. She calls this my "authenic self". And it feels so good to share my inner world with someone who seems to accept me. I've taken pictures to therapy too...and cried. So, when I connect with my younger "person", I let her know I love her and if she wants to be a boy, that's fine with me.
Questing

How do therapists help support or deal with a person thats got these types of transference.
What do therapists do when someone shows maternal transference?
It could become such a bind if they showed support of these types of transference and if they didnt it could become rejection.

quote:

My T is the first person to whom I've shared my childhood secret. She calls this my "authenic self". And it feels so good to share my inner world with someone who seems to accept me. I've taken pictures to therapy too...and cried. So, when I connect with my younger "person", I let her know I love her and if she wants to be a boy, that's fine with me.

Questing,
Whoa...hello is that me in there?? I just recently shared this with my T and I too feel so good for having done that and to feel completely accepted by her despite my own shame and humiliation I experienced from it.

I used to drive my mother crazy with my obsession with wanting to be a boy. My older siblings used to tease me and tell me that I was crazy. My oldest sister insists she used to think it was cute and funny, but I was very sensitive about being made fun of about it and learned it was a bad thing to want, so I felt very ashamed of myself and it became a secret life instead. But I wanted it soooo badly. When I was very little I used to ask my mom what she would've named me if I was a boy and she'd get irritated and tell me to "stop talking like that!" So I came up with male names of my own.

quote:

I still feel stupid though, almost like I'm afraid someone is going to find out that I am being nice to her and reprimand me for it. <--- Lil bit of shame there still! And I don't see her yet. It's more of a feeling and a voice for me, like someone saying, "hey, what about me?"

CT, I hope you give her a voice! Don't be like the other adults in her life. You are still hearing the lies they used to tell you; that you don't deserve to be heard, and that you don't deserved to be loved for the way that you are. Those are all venomnous lies that you can overcome and throw in the garbage where they belong! Look at some pictures and try to get in touch with her however you can. She has much to say and much to teach you I am sure.

Perhaps we could all get in touch with our tomboy little/girl "wish we were little boy" selves and meet Russ atop a giant maple tree somewhere.

PL, How MUCH older? I somehow doubt that you are though.

Emerald,
That's why transference can be so difficult and why it can be difficult finding a therapist who can really deal with it. I've actually told my T that he needs to write a book on how to handle transference. He's incredible and I think a lot of Ts would benefit from his wisdom and experience. Of course, he's told me that he would not have handled a lot of situations as well earlier in his career. I owe a debt of gratitude to his earlier patients.

The T has to walk a fine line between completely accepting, understanding and validating the client's feelings, so that they feel heard and understood and that all that they are and feel is acceptable. And for that the T has to be emotionally accessible. If that doesn't happen, you run the risk you mentioned of the client feeling rejected and the theraputic alliance is then ruptured.

On the other hand, the T has to avoid in any way gratifying the feelings or making the client think that those feelings can be acted upon. Therapy is the place where you can examine all that you're feeling but you need to go outside of the theraputic relationship to fulfill those needs that you can and use the theraputic relationship to grieve the needs that can no longer be met. If a T doesn't carefully guard those boundaries, it can slip over into a reenactment with the T filling the role of someone from the client's past. This leads to only repeating and reinforcing the very patterns that you're trying to break. There is a certain necessary frustration in therapy. But having somewhere where you can be totally heard and understood but that also makes obvious that some needs can't be met, you face your pain so you can let go of the hope of having them met which is often causing you a lot of pain in your present relationships.

An example from my experience. I spent a very long time wanting to ask for a hug from my therapist. There are times where things could feel so overwhelming and scary that I really just wanted to be held so I could feel safe. This was a very complicated issue for me because my memories are that I would seek out this kind of contact with my father. I would want to be held and feel safe but it would invariably end up as me being abused. I even struggled with feeling like the abuse was my fault because I sought out the hugs and so tempted my father. And let's throw into the mix that I sometimes experience a strong erotic attraction to my T and I'm no longer a little girl, I'm a grown woman.

I finally got up the courage to ask my T. ( I waited until I knew I could hear a no if I needed to). I asked at the beginning of a session because the last thing I wanted was to walk out after hearing no and not see him for another week. He immediately and very gently told me no. Then he told me that he wanted to talk about why I wanted a hug and how I felt and then he wanted a chance to explain why he said no.

He was able to hear why I wanted to be held and really affirmed how I was feeling, why it made sense I was feeling that way and that I had had every right to be able to ask for a hug as a child. Actually he told me I shouldn't have had to even ask, it should have been given to me freely.

Turned out he has an across the board rule of no hugs for clients. That balancing what little good a hug would do against the potential harm made it not a good risk. That if he gratified my need for a hug, it would allow me to avoid facing the pain of not getting that hug from my father and that in order to heal I needed to feel that pain and grieve the loss.

So he couldn't give me that hug I didn't get from my dad BUT, and this is a big but, he could provide a safe place for me to feel that pain and grieve the loss with someone there to understand and soothe me and help me make sense of it.

In the end, it was one of the most loving "nos" I ever heard. Hope that helps.

AG

quote:

I spent a very long time wanting to ask for a hug from my therapist. There are times where things could feel so overwhelming and scary that I really just wanted to be held so I could feel safe.

AG

I swear I'm going there today in my session. After two years of wanting it from her, I just need to know her answer so I can stop wishing for it. I am prepared for a no. In fact I'm expecting it, but I think it is a discussion I need to have with her and I'm tired of dwelling on it. OMG I think I will have a panic attack just before my session!

PL

Breathe PL, and remember you have all the virtual hugs you could ever want here.
(((((((((((((((((PL)))))))))))))))))))))

Though I secretly hope you get a hug from your T. I know you will at least get a reasurring answer. If she has a "no hug policy" it is vital that you reach an understanding that this is not a personal rejection and work on that as long as you need to.

But you never know until you ask. Even after my T hugged me when she came to see me in the hospital, I still had no clue for the longest time what her hug policy was in session. I thought the hospital was an exception. *shrugs*