I’ve been MIA for a bit and before that wasn’t posting much about my therapy anyway, so decided that now might be a good time to tempt fate and give an update on how things have been going.

I’d like to say categorically in writing out aloud with witnesses that I have finally found the right T for me. Only took a few decades and working my way through 32 therapists to get there, but I think I can confidently say that this man is the one.

I have never come across a T as non-defensive and as accepting as he is and despite all my reservations and doubts and fears and endless grievances about all the things he says and does that aren’t what I’m wanting or expecting from therapy, his consistent manner of mild acceptance has finally started to build in me a sense of trust and hope.

For the first time in therapy I feel like I have someone who is working WITH me, instead of my having to sort everything out on my own between sessions. Who knows, maybe in time I might even become attached. Well pigs might fly too but it’s not totally beyond the bounds of probability.

Something came up in session the other day that pointed up really clearly how every therapist I’ve seen before this one has been pretty useless. And it was to do with what I talk about in therapy. So herein the question of the title of this thread.

With my T’s subtly (and often very UNsubtly) nudging me over several sessions, I finally realized that I don’t ever and I mean NEVER talk about real life details in session. I’ll go in and talk all around the houses about how I feel and what I think and what I perceive my problems and issues to be, but I never say anything that gives away what my life is like, or who is in it, or what I do during my days. Sometimes I’ve thrown out the odd story from the past, but always in the context of supporting a point about my issues, never just in terms of telling a story about me.

So I decided to come in one session recently and tell him about my daily routine. Simple yeah? Not so . I cannot believe how uncomfortable it made me feel, how profoundly painful on some strange underground level it was, talking about ME as a real live person living a real human life . All sorts of hairy issues surfaced, like, how unutterably boring my life is and how irrelevant and unimportant and what a failure I am and how could anyone least of all a T be the slightest bit interested in what I do with my days or what the small trivial details of my life mean to me. I got a shock and a half when I realized just how defended I am against talking about the me that exists as an object in the eyes of others. Being seen as a real person in other words.

Which got me to wondering what other people actually talk about in therapy. Are you happy and comfortable talking about day to day issues and events in therapy, do you find it easy to tell stories about yourself? Does anyone else find it incredibly uncomfortable and difficult to talk about yourself in the context of real life, in terms of who you are in the real world? Or are you more comfortable, like me, talking about things in the abstract, talking ABOUT feelings and facts rather than showing them or describing them?

And anyway, what DO other people talk about in therapy????

This has brought so much stuff into my awareness that I’m almost reeling from what it all means and I’ll be unravelling it for quite a while, so I’d be really interested to hear what others have to say about how and what they talk about in therapy.


LL

p.s. the reason I said that all my previous Ts were useless, is because not one of them ever asked me to talk about my real life, or showed the slightest bit of interest in who I was or had been outside of sessions. I managed to keep wittering on endlessly in therapy about all these abstract and airy fairy things and never getting anywhere because the Ts gave me the impression that they expected therapy to be all about deep and meaningful things (or conversely, about changing my behaviour), and not the ‘trivia’ of my real life

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Lamplighter,

Hello LL
Your post got me thinking about this - good questions. I find it really hard after 10 months now with t to open up the conversation and it usually takes a prompting question like 'hows work?' from t before I'll offer an answer, I usually clam up after about 5 mins when talking about my real life because its a bit like well nothing interesting to say there t. I tend to to talk facts most times because its safer to my way of thinking then I don't have to get the feelings etc. On a day when I am fully 'present' in session we have had general kind of chit chat days, about work, books, art stuff t and I both like - when I asked t about these chit chats and why she asked it comes about that my t likes to do this every so often because as she says t doesn't have to be cathartic and drama and crisis every session so its a kind of breathing space. She also seems to use these kinds of questions about real life to gauge how balanced I am emotionally so we don't dive into trauma work or parts work and risk me dissociating or worse. I think t also uses these kinds of questions/chats about real life sessions to slow the work down when it has been particularly tough like a few weeks ago when we did some grief work.
Don't know if that helps answer your questions, have read some of your other posts so glad you think this t might be the one for you

((((LL))))

I've always found it hard to talk to my T about anything, real or imagined, and so can really relate to what you are talking about. I think it's important to be able to 1) take your own life seriously, 2) be able to talk about it, and 3) find meaning in your life - not necessarily in that order. But maybe if your T can get you at least comfortable with talking about your life and taking your life seriously, then maybe you will start to take your life seriously and invest a little more in it.

It always seemed so risky to care. To care about myself: who the hell am I? To care about others: can't get attached because I need to protect from loss. But, a life without caring is not worth living, IMHO. I've envied my T his life but what I've learned by watching him is that he invests himself in his life, he cares, he takes risks and he makes himself vulnerable. He doesn't live to protect himself from pain, as I have been living.

I've been with my T for four years and can say that it's only now that I'm almost comfortable talking to my T. The spillover into real life is that in conversations with friends, I take myself more seriously, assert myself, don't freak out if they don't seem to understand what I'm saying right away, etc. etc.

So I think you and your T are on the right track.

xoxo

Liese

P.S. So glad you finally found the right T. It was worth the wait.

What do I talk about in therapy? Hmm. . . that is a good question.

I'd say at least half of the time, and probably more, I talk about my family of origin dynamics. There is a lot there I am still trying-- not so much to understand intellectually, but come to terms with emotionally. The problem sometimes is that, like you, I'll tend to prattle about it all abstractly, like I'm composing my own case study, without really engaging with my stories on a more personal level in a way that would (I think) facilitate greater integration. I sometimes feel like I'm talking about somebody else and not myself.

Other than family or origin issues, we talk about current "symptoms," (which are mainly anxiety, SI, occasional SU ideation, and a tendency to talk (in my head) with an imaginary friend), and how I am managing them. We discuss different strategies and talk about what helps and what doesn't.

Sometimes in the course of a session a disturbing memory from the past will float into awareness and I'll just talk through the memory-- whatever it was that happened and how I felt about it. I rarely plan this sort of thing ahead of time. It seems to happen spontaneously in the course of talking about something else that turns out to be related. These kinds of sessions often turn out to be the best and most productive ones, I believe because I'm just sort of "in the flow" during them and not filtering everything so much.

Let's see what else. . . I'll sometimes talk about one of my friends, or my daughter, or my H, but usually not at very great length cuz there are no major problems there. We also sometimes chat about theology, religion, child raising, social issues, books I'm reading, poetry, etc. I don't know if that kind of talking is exactly "therapeutic," but it helps in establishing rapport, which is important.

As far as the details of my daily life go, well, they aren't terribly fascinating to anyone who does not find hearing stories about my one year old's antics and development engrossing. So I guess I don't do very much of that either. . . T will often ask me about how my week has gone, though. I usually reply very briefly before launching into something else (see above).

Anyway, there is a summary of the conversational material of my therapy sessions. Kind of a mish mash as you can see. I have often wondered what other people talk about, and will be checking back on this thread with interest!

LL ~ awesome for you to find a great T!!!

I'm glad you asked what other people talk about in therapy because I have wondered that lately myself. Mostly, because I feel I am moving at snail pace, I start questioning if my T is doing her job right or if I'm just unable to open up. I usually talk about the week I've had. I have to write it down in my journal otherwise I go into her office and freeze up and can't find any words. I skim over my journal musings and leave out a lot of specific details and feeling. If I start to feel something, she'll ask me why I got teary, and I talk my way around the subject to avoid the feelings. Then I leave and get mad at myself and try to pump myself up for the next week, thinking I'll say what I need to and let my feelings come, but same old story. We don't talk much about my past because she believes all the crap going on now is related to the years of dynamics so we focus on the here and now. It logically makes sense to me, and I do have a lot of junk going on in my life. I think it's hard for me to feel safe and let things come up because I have to keep up so many defenses with people around me. So yeah - we usually just talk about my week and it usually is pretty casual for the first 30 minutes. It seems like when I get to any "meat", my time is up.

LL I am so pleased that you have found the right T for you ((((((LL))))))

What do I talk about in therapy? thats a hard one lol and made harder because my T will sit and wait for me to speak first. Sometimes if my manager at work has pissed me off then I will talk about that, sometimes I will chat about my boys. I told her about my new kittens However after reading your post I realised I rarely talked about my day to day life. I know we did talk about how | thought the only thing she is interested in was my abuse.

She keeps telling me that she is interested in everything I have to say but I still struggle to believe her. I mean my life is so boring, I think I'm boring so why would she be interested in my life? I go to work and then I go to sleep and apart from the occasional night out with a friend thats it! Thanks LL you have gave me a lot to think about

Just have to say again that I am really happy for you (((((LL))))

Hev

Thank you everyone for your replies, and for the good will towards my finding the right T

Very interesting how this seems to be quite usual – I genuinely was wondering whether I was the only one who couldn’t get it together to talk about ‘innocuous’ stuff in therapy – only on reflection it’s not quite so innocuous is it? DF you put it clearly I think (and Monte too) when you said you can and do talk about things in your current life BUT that it’s much more difficult to talk about how you FEEL about them.

DF funnily enough I do exactly what you’re describing too with something current that is emotionally significant in some way, I tend to only bring it up after the intensity of the feelings has subsided. When my mother died I didn’t tell my T until about two sessions later and very successfully managed to make it sound like not that much of a big deal.

I think what I’ve realized is that even trying to talk about what I’d consider really boring uninteresting lightweight things to do with my real life, brings up all sorts of feelings that I’m actually in the daily struggle of trying to squash, ignore, avoid. In fact, it’s precisely in the apparent lightweight stuff that most of my feelings seem to reside. Hmmm. Maybe because it’s current and in the moment.

Also, it seems that quite a few of us seem to find our own lives uninteresting and boring (at least to others) and that’s really sad. There’s something to be said for the therapeutic value of getting comfortable talking to a T about the seemingly not-so-traumatic stuff so as to be able to carry that over into the real world, as you said Liese, having someone else take it seriously means that maybe we can take it seriously too. Mind you sometimes I find breathing traumatic, so I suppose it’s all relative .

Monte it sounds like we’re all pretty much in the same boat here, it all seems to be about defending against FEELINGS. How you describe your T asking questions or you would never say anything, that’s exactly what happened with my new T – he’s the first T I’ve had who asks questions. Without his prompting and asking questions about my real life I’d just not have ever thought to talk about it. For me, it’s the expression of interest that’s the catalyst. I’ve had Ts who have done what Hev’s T does, sit and wait for me to start talking and I’d come up with all sorts of off the cuff things based entirely on what I thought I was supposed to be talking about and it just took the therapy round and round in circles. Hev I gotta admire you for hanging in there with a silent T.

After 32 Ts I’ve decided that having a T who is willing to show interest, who asks questions, who will lead or direct the sessions to a certain degree if I’m sitting there mute is fundamental to therapy working for me. When I finally trotted out my daily routine and sat there going on about how could he possibly be interested in boring trivial stuff like this (read: how could he possibly be interested in boring unimportant ME) he looked quite surprised and said of course I’m interested, as if it was just taken for granted and I said, well I don’t know that how am I supposed to know that? Nobody else has been interested, why would I assume that you would be? There’s too much tacit stuff goes on in therapy, and I think a lot of therapists don’t realize the extent of the fears and defences that clients have about lots of things.

HIC that is exactly how it feels to me when I’m talking about anything, like I’m talking about someone else. I seem to have perfected this way of detached story telling that keeps me and my feelings and what it means to me out of the picture. But trying to talk about day to day or real life stuff for some reason is much more difficult to attribute to a third person. I liked what you said about it being like you’re composing your own case study, that’s exactly what I do, but am finding it’s so much harder to do that when the stuff I’m talking about is unique to me (ie that can’t be fitted into a generic text book scenario.)

Raven I agree with your T, stuff that’s going on in the present inevitably can be connected to the dynamics of the past, and vice versa – that getting in touch with what’s going on the present is a way of uncovering what happened in the past. DF that’s what you were saying too – it actually makes a lot of sense and I think I’ve always acknowledged that intellectually, but for some reason (!) not applied it in reality. I suppose I’ve had a vested interest in not being in the present precisely because it links so directly to the past – sorry going off tangent here a bit and thinking aloud...

JMB you another one defending against feelings. I rather like that you and T can ‘chit chat’ about all sorts of topics, though like you I’d probably be wondering what’s the point of this, is this therapeutic or what lol? But I can see your T’s reasoning.

Sorry this is a bit of a rambling post, I didn’t want to write reams like I usually do if I responded directly to everyone individually but have ended up doing that anyway. Everything you guys have said has brought up even more interesting things and I don’t quite know how to pursue it without making this a super mega post (which would be boring (!) and make me feel like I’m imposing (!) – exclamation marks to indicate that I’m recognizing boring uninteresting unimportant me messages here ).

Thank you again everyone for sharing what you talk about in therapy. It’s teaching me a lot.

LL

Hi LL I am so happy to hear you found a therapist you are happy with!!

I just wrote a well-crafted post and it disappeared..ughhh. I usually don't invest that much effort in writing clearly...so here's the 2nd version, choppy-as-usual:

We talk about everything under the sun.

It's up to me to bring up all of the topics as patients usually bring up what is important, either directly or indirectly. Once in a while he will bring something up, but i noticed, at least from my perception, they are usually things to challenge me, confront me with...because he noticed that i didn't have awareness about certain things that were coming up in session.

Initially we worked through the feelings from the therapist who terminated (referred) me, who sent me to a consultant, who sent me to my T.

In the beginning we talked alot about my history, interests, dating relationships, what my child/siblings/parents are like, friends, what it was like growing up, things i've accomplished, how I think and view myself and the world, symptoms such as anxiety/depression. We talked about politics, art, music, philosophy, medicine, human behavior... Discussions about my attachment feelings for him were interlaced throughout.

So after a couple of months getting to know one another, our discussions were more focused on my feelings for him. Love feelings, sexual/sensual feelings, abandonment fears, rejection, anger towards him, romantic, intense feelings of longing for him. Alot of these are transference feelings but many are relationship feelings too. These feelings are sometimes linked to the past.

We talk about my life regrets and guilt, like things i did as a mother that i now know i should not have done, things i feel guilty about with my child, life regrets, things I've done that were 'bad'. Like not spending more time with my Grandmother before she passed, drinking too much, telling a lie to someone, dumping a man who i dated etc.

We talk about my current symptoms such as feelings of hopelessness, feeling lonely, intermittent feelings of self-hate. Many of these are linked to the past, and these are the things that just sort of naturally flow into deep, core issues.

We talk about medications since he is a psychiatrist. He always wanted me to suggest which medications i should take, then let me decide.

Our sessions start with about 1 whole minute of small talk, followed by discussions about my text messages to him throughout the week. I send him random messages as feelings arise, sometimes as simple as "I miss you so much"; other times, things like "you forget about me as soon as I leave" or "i keep thinking of snuggling with you". Most all of my texts are about deep feelings towards him, and I'm not 'thinking' when i send them. I'm not a journaler, and texting has been such an asset to my therapy. I can text him as much as i want.

We talk about my week alot now. In addition to all my feelings about him, we talk about my weekly interactions with family, friends, work, sometimes linking feelings to the past.

When I get there, it's like i'm in another world-the thought part of my mind shuts down. I dissociated alot though its gotten much better over the past few months, and now it seems I am able to feel intense emotions and think at the same time. I remember a couple of times feeling like my unconscious was outside of me during sessions; i could actually 'sense' it's presence. We talk about how I feel emotions so intensely that they take on concrete qualities, as well as somaticism. Sometimes i enter a trauma memory, not of the experience, but the feelings and half-dissociate, where i feel like i'm posessed an am not controlling myself, or regress.

Often, lately, it's the same feelings over and over and over. I told him I was worried he'd get sick of talking about the same things all the time, worried that i might bore him, but he said this is good and that patients who come in with 'stories' and different issues all the time are usually those who are really out of touch with their true feelings.

We talk about fantasies and dreams. I have told him of times where I felt like I wanted to be married to him and imagined we lived together and the things we would do, like watch the Daily Show together....Talking about dreams, i think, is very helpful. I think dreams can point to some of the most important underlying issues that need examined more.

Everything is mostly spontaneous. Things i want to address, that I plan to discuss, usually come more towards the end of the sessions.

Well, i hoped all of this information helps you, Lamps.

quote:

Something came up in session the other day that pointed up really clearly how every therapist I’ve seen before this one has been pretty useless. And it was to do with what I talk about in therapy. So herein the question of the title of this thread.

I think that through your 'shopping' experiences, that you progressively got in touch more with underlying emotions behind the dissapointment with all of the therapists you've seen in the past. Just my 2 cents.

Hey Lamps, we cross posted.

quote:

After 32 Ts I’ve decided that having a T who is willing to show interest, who asks questions, who will lead or direct the sessions to a certain degree if I’m sitting there mute is fundamental to therapy working for me.

This really stood out to me. This is just an observation, maybe a question you could ask yourself. Can you see how this could be a barrier to intimacy, to the therapist getting to know the real you?

Hello xoxo I crossposted with you!

Thanks for your reply. Lol I grew steadily more amazed as I read the kinds of things you've talked about in therapy. Way to go! Sounds like you've not only covered just about everything it's possible to talk about, but that there's been a steady method in it too, I really got the sense of progress and building on what's gone before. Wow you must have real trust and faith in your T to feel free to talk about all this stuff. I openly confess to feelings of ENVY.

I hope you feel safe enough to leave your post up, it's really enlightening and has lots of things in it I'd like to refer back to.

LL xxx

Lol double cross-post. I'm not sure I understand your question properly. Could you explain it more to me?

LL

ETA:

quote:

patients who come in with 'stories' and different issues all the time are usually those who are really out of touch with their true feelings.

This really struck me and has me thinking. What do you think your T meant when he used the word 'stories'? I can certainly classify myself as someone who is out of touch with my true feelings, I just wondered about the stories element as I find it almost impossible to tell stories about myself or my life.

xxx

Hey Lamps,

I'm glad my post helped you, maybe if even showing you the whole range of things that can arise in therapy. I do get uncomfortable with posting personal details here but will try my best to leave it up. Thanks for the encouragement.

Oh-I forgot to mention feelings of envy. We talk about those too! Envy usually leads to feelings of deprivation as a child, for me...

I think people underestimate the importance of talking about the details of everyday life. It's really a good way for the therapist to get to know you. People don't normally 'stop and think' about what they do day to day, so it can be revealing to discuss these more 'automatic' things we do. It also shows the therapist how you relate to the world....

About the question-if your therapist chooses the topics, then you can unconsciously avoid scary feelings, core issues. It can be a barrier to intimacy because you are not revealing your inner state or your true self. (btw-this is not a criticism!)

Maybe you can/will address these things when trust develops, and you will be able to be more spontaenous. I just have pattern radar, and noticed this was one of the most consistent patterns with your complaints about therapists....just something to think about.

quote:

This really struck me and has me thinking. What do you think your T meant when he used the word 'stories'?

Well, everyone has different ways of avoiding intimacy, and this is one of the common ways. It's basically narrating childhood memories, coming to sessions telling stories about past childhood experiences the whole time.

Some people, through these stories, are conveying to the therapist only things they want the therapist to know about them. Talking about the past like that doesn't reveal your true self. That's what people often refer to as 'filtering'.

Besides that, it can be unresolved trauma feelings that people narrate in a detached manner. All of these experiences are good to bring to therapy, but how PD works is that these experiences come up spontaneously, usually linked to the transference feelings, which is when ideally they should be worked through. I guess my idea of PD therapy is linking transference feelings to past experiences as opposed to merely telling your therapist about childhood stories.

I started to do this for a while but he confronted me and i naturally stopped doing it. This is related to emotional defense or intra-psyche restructuring that analysts tend to do more than other therapists who often practice a hybrid version psychodynamic therapy.

Howdy, LL!! What a wonderful thing to see your update. Thanks for sharing. I often think that you think you are boring and...whatever...when the reality is that you are interesting. One thing I've noticed about you, is that you tend to ask people for their perspectives on things and get them to share their stories with you- which most of us really long to do. In other words, you are a good listener, and asker of questions yourself, and because you communicate in that way- with interest in others- it makes perfect snese that you would need that type of interest directed back to you- it's neat that you give others what you long for yourself.

Ok- so LL, I'm real happy that you found this T. To answer your question, with Guru T, I cannot for the life of me remember what we talked about. I tried to talk about what he wanted to talk about, because he did not express interest in me. This interest in me is crucial, not because I want to present myself a certain way- but because I need *permission* to speak about myself. With this permission, I can quite freely open up and be myself. Without it, I am a clam. You seem similar.

I once asked my old T if we could just talk about non-serious things- I told him in an email, of my longing to share the everyday details of my silly life with him- and his response was that therapy is too expensive to use making small talk, or some such answer. It devastated me, and you can be sure that from that day forward, I did try to present myself as educated, thoughtful, interesting, and intensely spiritual. I to this day have *no idea* if I am *really* any of those things, but by golly, I know I can put that on pretty well.

Fast forward to Cowboy T. He initiates small talk, which I find irritating, but ever so useful! It is amazing how much it helps me to be able to use at least part of the session for what I need. He literally giggles at certain things. He asks me how the home renovations are coming. He ask me stupid stuff about my life. He says it's important we can talk this way- that he is interested. I find this extremely freeing- and it totally has the effect of dissipating any (for me therapy-ruining) transference. Transference for me, means that I do most definitely *not* have the freedom to explore who I really am, or to find out what I think or feel. Without it, I no longer feel that I have to present myself as intelligent, thoughtful, or impressive- Cowboy clearly does not value those things, particularly. I think somehow, that he understands what I need...or at least, what he happens to do, or be- works for me. So, I can find out, within the context of this realtionship- who the heck the real me really is. And paradoxically, I have revealed more to Cowboy and with total honesty- than I was ever able to do with Guru T. I really think there is something to be said for T's that are "regular guys." My T is all about being a regular guy. It helps. I have no idea why, but it helps.

So we talk about- my marriage, my past, my Foo, my last T, my issues, my faith, my kids, my emotions (or lack thereof) and we talk about him, his boundaries, he tells me little stories about his family, or stuff that illustrates the point that we are trying to uncover- and, we also I think- analyze the transference between me and my last T, and try to figure out that bit.

All of this continues to have a dimension of complete unreality to it. It's like walking into a dream once a week. I wonder if Cowboy T really exists outside of that room sometimes.

Anyway- so that is my expereince with it. It sounds like your T is interested, and of *course* it is fundamental that that interest be expressed to you, if it is not something that you have been able to take for granted. I know I wasn't with Guru T. How boring I felt. But with Cowboy- idk, I feel interesting, so I have permission to speak. It's funny that for you and I, it seem the cardinal sin is being "boring." I wonder what that is all about?

Hugs, you!

BB

****ing page two!!!