I keep hearing that therapy is supposed to be hard. I get that. In what way?

Can you give me some examples? I have read so far about pain revolving around
1. boundaries
2. transference
3. abandonment
4. looking at painful things from the past.

and 5: shame. I want to talk about this for a bit.

I am not sure I can do this anymore. I am taking a break from my T to think for a bit. He and I seem to be doing OK with the above 3, but he often says things that are blunt and insensitive ..things that would hurt anyone, not just me.(I have done surveys to prove this) I never thought of myself as being overly sensitive, but I cry a lot and can't stop thinking about how things have changed in terms of our relationship. I have not done anything outrageous or weird, I don't step over boundaries, don't go into rages. But he says things that are just thoughtless at times, and when I tell him that what he says is hurtful (by any standards) he puts it all back on me, saying that it is coming from my past. Granted, just a few days ago he apologized for something he said.

So now I'm trying to make sense of it all. sometimes it does (make sense), sometimes he's just plain rude. I can't wrap my head around this. As a matter of fact, I'm falling back into an old pattern of assuming that it must be my fault, I must have done something wrong. I feel like I'm crazy. Or maybe that I am too sensitive. He tells me that I'm not like a "normal" person that he can draw the 'big guns" on. I hear that clients get pissed at their T's when this happens. Is this normal? I decided about 10 years ago that nobody gets to be verbally abusive with me, and I'm quite stubborn about it. T actually respected my wishes in that regard, but he still maintains that it's all about me and my past, not him.

My parents used to "gaslight" me by putting me through much verbal abuse, then immediately afterward, especially if I cried (going numbe worked better later on) would tell me that I'm "too sensitive"...followed by "if only you would just____" Is my T trying to recreate this? But why? I don't understand how this is supposed to heal me. He keeps telling me that he's not my father, but he does the same things, for real. This is not projection, it's happening. I sit and think about this to make sure I'm not crazy, dreaming, making it up..

Is this part of the game? I don't understand why, what the point is of this whole "process". I felt better before therapy. I can handle constructive criticism, but some of what T says, or the way he says it, is hurtful. But I still like him very much. Am I being brainwashed? What is this all about? Am I stupid? Crazy? Scary to think that these are the exact dynamics of an abusive relationship. Should I stay or should I go?

I entered therapy because I was depressed, have had many losses, and I have a LOT that I have to accomplish this year... I'm overwhelmed. But now I just feel like the therapy is bringing out the worst in me, like a self-fulfilling prophecy. I feel insecure, I don't want to talk to T, I'm angry, crying a lot, and I trust people even less. I'm more cynical. I feel like I'm being tricked into pathologies I didn't know I had.

Have they been there all along?


The following is my perception only, but could there be truth in it?:
My T and I started out with a good relationship, and now I feel like the more he knows me, the less he likes me. There may be some truth to this, but of course, there is the black and white thinking. None of this would have been an issue if not for the therapy. I feel like he played the game of getting me to trust him, and now...

But there are also some very good things that he has done for me. He is always there. But now I read here about T's that are there for the client/patient, until one day, they just aren't.

I don't know about this. I am not trusting much at all these days. Really. More than ever, everything seems so conditional.

Well, I guess I will be blunt here too.

Other could beg to dinner, but in my own opinion, it's not a T's job to say mean and insensitive things. If yours does that, I would stop second guessing yourself and find a new T. You have enough to deal with already.



You deserve better than this. Really.

Thanks Alpaca.

I keep reading here that feeling hurt is all about things that I'm projecting on my T about my past, and that there is some pain I am supposed to endure. But I have a life to lead, a degree to finish, and a business to start.

This sucks. I really like my T and it breaks my heart to walk away feeling this cynical.

I will think about this, seriously, thanks Alpaca!

At some point you do have to be able to draw a line between what is pain from our past, and what is a legitimate gripe in the present.

Feeling pain because your T redecorated or took longer than usual to answer an email is one thing...when it's obvious that they have not done anything actually wrong. It's another when a T is honest to goodness acting like a jerk. I think you should trust yourself on this one.

number9, I'm sorry that you feel T is mean and insensitive to you during therapy. I am someone who feels a lot of pain in therapy but my T has never called me sensitive or said I"m not like a "normal" person. Whenever I use the terms sensitive or normal my T doesn't let me get away with it. When I've told T that he has hurt me he doesn't put it all back on me. He will tell me that he didn't mean what I thought he did by what he said and he'll explain what he meant. Eventually I can see that what really hurt about what my T said or did is what I thought he meant by it or how it reminds me of my past. This week I was talking about my siblings and how they treat me and I got really upset and didn't want to talk about it because we've already talked about it before. For a brief moment before he encouraged me to talk about it some more my T smiled. Today I sent him an email telling him I felt like he was laughing at me when he smiled and he responded immediately to tell me he wasn't laughing at me but he was thinking about how little patience I have with myself in thinking that talking about something once would work through it. I know we'll talk about it further in my next session.

If I thought my T actually meant to hurt me or felt like I wasn't "normal" enough compared to other patients I would look for another T. I think you deserve to be supported in a gentle way.

Ditto. Yes, well, even if someone were 'secure', I don't think they'd put up with any form of name-calling anyway. I don't think this kind of reaction is purely always from the past. It's a demand to be respected as a human being and an individual.

And in therapy, gentleness is key. I would prefer my therapist to suggest that I have certain traits I need to work on in a gentle way. Being forward about it and blunt...well, we've had enough of this treatment I think? I think you have number9 hon. So many of us have here.

We need caring, compassionate, kind speaking people. We've had enough of spite and anger and selfishness and loss.

Trust your gut I know it's hard. See how you feel. With you all the way

quote:

At some point you do have to be able to draw a line between what is pain from our past, and what is a legitimate gripe in the present

Exactly! This is what I would do in real life. It seems like if we are unable to make this distinction in therapy as well, or are discouraged from doing so, we're going to have a much harder time "out there".

I just can't abide by all these therapy games and "tricks" (Yes, I have heard other therapists use this term... tricks, having tricks up their sleeves, etc) I don't like games. It's funny how T's accuse some of being manipulative (I have not been accused of doing that) but are tricky as can be. Or who won't use the term "love" but will talk about "tough love" as though it's some new toy that they just got that they want to play with.

Not on me.

Yes, I have had enough. I knew this when I came in. This helps, I was wondering, honestly, if this is part of the "process"... putting up with this crap. Maybe part of the process is being strong enough not to, and learning to tell the difference between projection and real, legit anger.

Funny how he told me that I need to trust my own instincts. Now I feel bad because I am imposing an ultimatum. If he were unable to apologize, it would be hard, but I think it would be time for me to leave. He's close to 3 strikes. The apology helped.

And here I thought my flaw was harsh black and white thinking. And here it is, helping me out again, like an old friend. I feel like we are on thin ice with our relationship.

Thanks for keeping me from sliding into cynicism, FMN and incognito!

Number9,

You ask so many good questions. I can tell you from my own experience that my T was using "evidence based" techniques with me that most of his other clients respond to. But it was triggering for me and caused a lot of problems for me. Am I too sensitive? IDK. It was just playing right into my childhood issues and I never developed the ability (mainly a sense of self) to get past it. And, so his techniques were not working with where I was developmentally.

I went on a bunch of consults and actually got outside validation that he was not the most sensitive person. I was on the verge of a huge crisis this past summer and it was this that caused him to look at himself and see that what he was protraying was not what he thought he was portraying.

So, I guess the long and the short of it is that you need to trust your instincts. Maybe he's just not the right T for you. Have you considered a consult?

HUGS,

Liese

Thanks, Liese!

I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all. I thought that my unwillingness to "take crap from anyone" was a strength, (and it is) but I may be sensitive about certain things underneath it all.

But I did get validation (partly from here) that my T can be a little insensitive at times. He says that he is not trying to hurt me and part of me just wonders if he is naturally clueless at times, but he has a good heart. He has apologized, but still seems to think that it's about me and my reactions, not him. Hopefully he will see that what he is portraying is not what he thinks he is portraying, and can take responsibility for his part in it all. But I can't control other people and their actions.. I think I just said that to someone else earlier, and I must remember what I preach, hard as this is.

Ah, yes. Trust my instincts, one of the reasons I am in therapy. What a lesson it is, isn't it?

I am doing a consult and taking a week off to think. I can handle the gap, but part of me still fears that he will decide to leave first, that I will text him next week and he will tell me that we need to part ways. My imagination comes up with the worst case scenario. I can understand the pain that some are going through here because of my fear.

Hugs to you as well!

No9

Hi number9! I'm not sure if we've ever talked before, so if not, Welcome!!

When I read your post, it hurt so much, because so many things about it reminded me of an experience I had with a T about two and a half years ago. He was the first one to really try to listen seriously to why I was seeking help. However, as time went on, I saw so much of the same progression as you are seeing - more pain, more crying, more distrust - and lots of apparent "game-playing" on his part - and I asked the same questions, thought the same things as you, that he seemed to say several really harsh unkind thoughtless things, without it helping, and I began to think the more he got to know me, the more he didn't like me, and the less trusting I felt. BUT I kept thinking, it must be transference, it must be my imagination, therapy is "supposed" to be painful, he must be playing these games for my "benefit"...so I kept going anyway...and when I took a leap of trust, one that he'd been blatantly encouraging me to take for four months, he abruptly terminated me.

All of this was extremely painful and confusing. But I leaned really heavily on this board at that time, and very fortunately found an awesome T a few weeks later, and eventually through working with her, realized that what I experienced with him was not all "my stuff" or my imagination. At the very least, it was a really bad therapeutic "fit". Personally I think it was more than that, I think somehow I triggered a lot of his unconscious stuff. But at any rate, there was a lot of "unnecessary" and unhelpful pain, and ultimately I'm very glad the therapy with him ended and I was able to find someone I could work with and make some progress.

I just wanted to say that I see a lot of red flags in what you are describing, and it sounds to me like it would be a very good idea for you to consult with another T or two to check things out. I am very inclined to think, based on your account, that this is not your imagination, and not all "your stuff" as he is claiming. I wish you the very best of luck and healing.

Peace,
SG

Strummer Girl: Thank you! Nice to meet you as well!

Catalyst: Hello again!

OK, I'm reading both of these replies and I feel so honored to get this feedback. Such thoughtful replies. I see much value in both! I need to read them again and absorb it all and process it, to just shut up and listen and think and respond later.

I feel some peace, even though this is complicated. I will make some tea and sleep on it.

This is a really good thread for me to read, too. I am in a very similar position with my therapist right now, and it makes me feel sick. It's really hard to think about leaving him, but I keep having issues that make me think he's not good for me. All of my friends who have heard me talk about him think it doesn't sound right, and they have thought this since I first started having trouble with him over a year ago. I realize that if he were a boyfriend or something and they all felt that way, their knowledge of me and their concern for me would carry some weight. But this is not a boyfriend situation. Still, it's an important relationship. It seems pretty complicated to me.

Now I am having additional trouble because I tried to get an adjunct therapist for a specific issue short-term, and he seems to be upset and threatened by it and a little mad and a little tired of me. Was I not supposed to tell him?

I keep thinking that there's a method to his madness, and then I keep doubting that he's trying to do anything purposeful at all, but just bumbling along with me. And it hurts, of course.

Everyone's replies to Number9 here are REALLY helpful to me right now. THANK YOU.

Number9, good luck!!

Thanks Quell and Kansas!

I was just about to re-post after backing off for a bit.

He has apologized, but/and still says that "all I seem to take away is pain"-

I'm feeling ambivalent. Not in an intensely emotional way. I just feel like I don't want to share my vulnerability with someone who at any time could step on it again.

I wanted to make sure that I shared with you all some of the exact words so that I do not feel like I am over-reacting. Also sharing with you that I did put him on the spot in regards to the question about my appearance.

The raising of his voice, the use of harsh language, was unprovoked, he just got tired of me intellettualizing and withdrawing and projecting and making judgements/black and white assessments. (not on him, nor another person, but something from the outside world that triggered me, pissed me off, but never raised my voice or used harsh language) But he never wanted to gently explore WHY I do those things.

He made an entire dx about my personality based on the B&W thinking, and I called him on it. He doesn't know much about these things, and retracted it. But as a result I feel shame, a vague feeling of ugliness on the inside and outside. Nothing about me has changed, I just feel like I have been railroaded into pathologies I didn't think I had. I was not aware that black and white thinking and severe depression and withdrawing constituted a personality disorder, and that just made me want to crawl under a rock, or fight back, either of which would have (have been) even more damning to me.

I feel like no matter what I do, it will become some sort of negative self-fulfilling prophecy. And I don't want to put it ALL back on him.

Those things he said feel like too much of an assessment of my essence, my entire being. Is this what it means to have someone "tell it like it is?" Others tell me I'm a good person and that I'm very attractive. Why does his opinion matter? He has asked me that himself.

And now... I am feeling not emotional, but flat. I used to be like an excited little kid, wanting to share things... thoughts, insights, photos, etc. And I have lost that. I don't know what he will do next, even though he has apologized. It feels like a loss of innocence, like there is no going back.

I can't beat him up either. What would be the point? To make him feel the same pain? Guilt? No point in that. But I just... don't want to share anymore. I have done this with my family as well. No drama, I just kind of disappear. I don't want this to happen again.

In that sense, he is correct, I would be repeating the past. If he wants to do this "reparenting" thing, he would literally have to tell me how wonderful I am about 3x per day for the next year or so before I would begin to believe him. And I don't feel like becoming a black hole, a vampire, an energetic drain on anyone. So.... I tend to withdraw.

Perhaps some of you recognize how I do tend towards "either/or" thinking- make friends with it, or shoot it, or run away. Friend or Foe. What is the middle ground here? Is there one? Should I continue on, feeling like something is just "off"?

Dammit, I really am/was? attached to the bastard! He is very kind, and real, 95.7% of the time.

Is this weird? I feel oddly detached. Like I'm really, truly ready to not care anymore, to just enjoy my solitude, hunker down, lots of people do it, why can't I as well?

I'm not trying to be pathetic. Yeah, I'll watch some movies that glorify/romaticize the lone hero and fool myself for a while, till I get lonely/desperate enough to call T.

I put all my "lameness" in one place, and he sees it. Nobody else that I see on a day to day basis needs to know.

I feel sadness and grief. I don't know if I'll be able to "break up" just yet.

Your posts are so kind, thanks so much. Maybe there is a better way. If this keeps up, all my energy will be gone. Such fun choices. At least I don't try to change him, I am wise enough to see the futility in trying to change another person. Reframing? This feeling runs deep. I could tell him all this, too.

Kansas, thanks... no games, no more games! and Quell, let me know how it goes!

I will do the same.

It kind of looks like your anger is coming to the fore, for what ever reason. That can be pretty scary, enough to make one want to hide under a rock and numb out. If there is enough trust between you and T, perhaps you can face it together? Feeling pissed towards T can also mean less fear of him, and his rejection. It can feel like you are losing him a little, because there is less dependence, and more hostility. ALL normal. Be brave.

Thanks so much, Muff!

I don't think I did a very good job expressing my gratitude to you guys, just started to ramble again. And I am repeating myself.

Your posts mean a lot to me! And sometimes I confide more in you all than to my T. Well, not always.

But damn, you guys are good. This sick feeling- is it shame? or anger? Energetically, anger is on a higher level than shame. Only anger can move and transform the muck that is shame.

What I wish he would have done, when he raised his voice (to get through to my defenses) during my "bitch" session, was ask WHY those things triggered anger in me. Or even now, he is avoiding talking about the whole appearance thing- he wants to move on and talk about "other things".

Because I can let some of this stuff out and still hold onto my observer self. I want him to allow me to do that and still see me in the same positive light he saw me in when we first met.

(the sick feeling also feels like grief)

I will bring all this up during our next session. I want to give it another chance. You guys were my consult. I promise if he does this again I won't come crying to you guys, it must seem ridiculous.

OK, enough, time for bed.
Much gratitude, I feel more at peace.