Oh Ariel

Welcome to you amidst your sadness and despair.
I feel your pain and anxiety and cannot imagine what you're going through. It is a horrible to be feeling helpless, I think it's one of the hardest emotions to sit with. I am so sorry.

Ariel, healing love and a hug (((ariel)))) coming your way, please let us know how things go on for you.

starfish

Ariel - so wonderful to hear from you. my heart goes out to you. sending much love your way. one of the hardest things for me to do in life is sit with the pain of a loved and about a loved one that i can't help or do anything about...

know you are not alone in your tears. we are here with you. i'm sending many good thoughts and prayers your way.

I don't have much to say right now but wanted to say one thing: that it's been really good for my heart to read along with what everyone has been writing and posting. thanks to everyone. please do keep reading, sharing, posting, questioning, and processing if/when it's helpful to you.

Jones and Starfish (and everyone else who’s lost someone they loved to suicide) I’m so sorry for your pain.

I’m also really sorry if my post is triggering to anyone, I really hummed and hahed about putting it up and I can see even more clearly now that it could be triggering to other people - I am quite happy to delete it if it’s causing problems. In fact I would prefer to get rid of it, it seems totally inappropriate considering the theme of this thread is about the effect of suicide on others - but I don’t want to just delete it out of hand because that would make people feel even worse.

I know that no-one is having a go at me for what I’ve written, but I do feel bad knowing that it could potentially upset people, and I’m really sorry for that

Dear LL,

Please don't delete your post. It's the subject that's triggering, not your post, and we can't talk about it without talking about difficult feelings. More important than that, you have just as much a right to your experiences and your feelings, and to feeling them, remembering them, writing about them - as anyone else. If this were a simple subject with only one valid viewpoint, well, we'd live in a different world.

I think it is absolutely awful not only that you went through that pain, but that it was dumped back on you by the people who should have been most caring for you. And then that your experience was 'erased' by those people. I very much wish it was different for you, and I very much wish that you felt your worth in the world and how valuable you are to other people, including us here.

Debbye, this is beautiful and to me it is true:

quote:

"Well, I think we matter to everyone else on this forum. Look how upsetting it is to us when posts from other people disappear or they don't post for long periods. It helps me to know people here care and "listen". ~D."

Starfish, I'm so sorry you lost someone so close and important to you in this way. I am not 'further along than you' for feeling angry. Yours is a really loving perspective, even if you still have lots to work through (as we all do):

quote:

I have never felt that it was a selfish act - and in a way I am glad of that, but I witnessed one family member eat themselves up about it being so.

So much plays into this. One of the things that makes it hard for me to hold on to this is that when I was a kid, one of my parents threatened suicide and specifically told me I was implicated for not being a good/loving child. Others close to me have threatened and attempted since then, on occasion reinforcing that message that it's about my failures. I know it might seem narcissistic, but it is very hard for me to factor myself out of the picture when dealing with my feelings about this.

SF I think you have something very, very precious in your loved one's consistency of care and love for you - a message that allows you to see more of the truth of this choice for him.

Ariel, welcome and I am deeply sorry you are in this spot. I have been on the 'watch' more than once and it is a nightmare of trying to speak and having your words vanish, trying to hold and having your arms stopped by an invisible forcefield. All I can say is that sometimes those trains turn out to be on different tracks after all, and they scoot past each other. Please take care of yourself, be gentle and keep doing what you can to look after yourself - this is not selfish, but the only way to maintain your energy in this situation.

FOT, I'm sending healing thoughts for your friend in ICU. I really hope she or he makes it.

Smiley and Debbye, I'm glad you are both here and talking with us despite the awfulness of those feelings. I believe healing is possible and I hope things start to ease for each of you very soon.

Thank you all for your Love and Compassion.
My mother used to muse "If thoughts had wings.."
Little did she suspect that Love and Prayers sent from the heart, with intent, to another in pain could have such a calming effect.

I have discovered that living with a depressed and suicidal person is not an experience that can be shared with others. Others who have not been in that trying space. The focus, the attention, and rightly so, is placed on the Suicidal. The Watcher is merely an accompanist, but one who suffers along with...

I wonder if some of us are born with natural abilities to accompany sufferers, and do we somehow seek each other out: if there may be a Karmic attachment that requires our maintaining vigil. Do we learn at the cellular level through this experience that each one of us can only be responsible for our own life? Not another's?

Do we learn to reserve judgement about self destruction.. and allow our loved one the option of ending his/her inconsolable misery..
and bless them on their way? It really is not as if we have a choice, do we?

Jones, I will enter tonight's sleep with a visualization of two trains, two tracks, and safe passage to the destination. I value the image. Thanks.

And thanks all, again. I also hold you in my thoughts and prayers and ask your angels to enfold you in their loving wings.

LL - oh please don't delete your post! (if you really really want to, that's ok. I just hope you don't.) It was really helpful for me read and was hoping to respond soon - and I will. (In fact, my mother said the EXACT same thing when she found out what I tried to do...)

but right now, I at least want to say that that what you shared really helped me feel a lot less alone and I am so glad for it. I think a lot more people share simillar experiences and perspectives - more than post here. I even received a PM from someone who doesn't want to post, but just know what you shared helps. (I started this thread about both places anyhow - being in the place of being sucidial and all the stuff that comes with that, and being the loved one of someone who is there - all of it matters greatly. "Both" places and perspectives are really valid and important.)

just my opinion, I really do hope you leave your post up... either way, at least know, it was really helpful for me to read and I'm so glad you shared it.

I just want to say that I am so sorry for the pain all of you are feeling over the loss of loved ones. I do understand that this is a very tough subject.

I really don't want anyone to take what I say personally, I'm just speaking what's in my own head. I would like to make a comment on the following:

quote:
it is extremely difficult to feel like someone who you really loved had no room for you in their head

In my own experience this isn't true. It's more like the person you love the most is always in your head. What there is no room for is compassion on themselves. Feeling so guilty, so much of a burden to the ones they love, so much of a problem all the time. (Even if it's only in their own mind) They can't see beyond those feelings and that makes it even worse. I can tell you from my own experience that it is a place that you can't break free from on your own, and yet you don't want to bother anyone further because you are already a bother. It's kind of a no win situation. Yes they have a choice, but to them it is the right choice.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone. I truly don't mean it to. I know that suicide is not the answer but it sure feels like it when you are there in the moment.

(((( Smiley )))) You’re here and posting, that counts for a lot - finding the strength to keep going. You’ve got my total support and sympathy.

JD and Jones thank you so much for your caring and sympathetic replies. My wanting to delete my post wasn’t because it’s something I’m worried about others knowing, but I’m really concerned that it’s upsetting to others. Will leave it up now though as maybe yes other people who have been in the suicidal’s position might be able to relate to it.

This is such an emotionally fraught subject - in fact I hadn’t realized just quite how fraught until reading some of the posts on here - but to me it’s not so big an issue as I’ve looked at it long and hard and the topic doesn’t scare me (talking about it, thinking about it, listening to others talk about suicidal feelings). But I don’t have the experience of knowing my own suicide would much affect anyone else, so I find it difficult to put myself in the place of those who really do care and suffer so badly because of it. I can imagine it, but haven’t experienced it myself - there have been a few people I know kill themselves, but we weren’t particularly close so my reactions and feelings were not so intense.

Jones thank you so much for your empathy - that is so kind of you especially considering your own pain in trying to come to terms with your friend’s death. And wow Jones, to have important figures in your life try and blame YOU for their suicidal feelings - that does make me angry on your behalf - I’d be tempted to put them in the ‘spite’ and ‘anger’ category - unfortunately threatening suicide can be used as an emotional weapon - which makes it really hard to deal with in any kind of straightforward way, but when adults use it against children that sucks big time, makes me very very very angry!

And Jones

quote:

it is extremely difficult to feel like someone who you really loved had no room for you in their head.

that puts in one brilliant sentence what the pain must be about - I guess I’ve always known that I didn’t exist in any kind of positive way in anyone else’s head so I always knew that it wouldn’t matter to them much whether I was around or not, but I can still sense the pain of rejection and abandonment and not mattering, that would be there if someone you loved just left, just like that, as if you didn’t figure in their thoughts at all. (((( Jones ))))

And hugs to everyone who is going through any of this - either their own suicidal feelings or having to deal with those of others.

LL

LL

I too am glad you left it up, I didn't find it upsetting at all. It just gives someone else's perspective and that's really helpful.

Did any of you have any inclination that the suicide was coming? Don't answer if you can't....I had absolutely no idea, really at that age didn't know what suicide really was, as had never been exposed to any talk of it. So it was a bolt from the blue and I wonder if that made it any different from those who had warning? But I know that to live with the fear must be dreadful so I am definitely not saying either is any harder, they are both truly awful, but that there is a difference maybe??

As it was such a shock, for me I think it compounded my grieving (or lack of it - I haven't allowed myself to yet ), couldn't believe it had happened, was not allowed by my other parent to view the body, or talk of it at all....so now I am just realising why I have never even begun to come to terms at all with what happened. I shut it all away long with all the other stuff, until gentle probing from T made me realise that I had a real difficulty with that loss. But like everything that seemed to happen to me, it was so taboo to talk about......so I didn't and never have, apart from a tiny bit to T and a tiny bit here.

starfish

FOT, I'm sorry. I have a close friend in this battle at the moment too. I wish you and your friend peace.

Ariel, thank you for your thoughts. What you say about keeping vigil is a big question in my life and one I don't have answers for. Your words have given me a different perspective to think from. I'm glad the image of two tracks is helpful to you - I will think of it for you too.

Smiley, thank you so much for putting words to your thoughts about this. It's helping me to shift out of my own 'stuck' perspective about it. It's certainly not offensive. When I read your words about feeling guilty and a burden and a bother I hear the pain of that, and the illness of depression, how everything is turned in against the self. I so hate that you are going through that, and others here, and that my friend went through it too. And yet he was no burden. It was hard to see his pain, but he was my friend and I loved him and I wanted to help him because I loved his company and his friendship. I tried to say it but I wish I had said it a hundred times louder.

LL, you matter here, you matter to this community and specifically to me. I know you are not fishing for this and i don't wish to embarrass you but I would miss you a lot if you weren't around - you are my friend. Thank you for understanding my perspective and thank you for the hugs. ((((((LL))))))

Love to everyone on this.