Well, I haven't actually lied to my T yet. At least, not on purpose. But lately I've been *feeling* like I did. Or at least like I exaggerated.

When I first started therapy, and arrived on this board, I was in the middle of the biggest breakdown of my life so far. First I had about a month of depression where I cried every day, had no motivation for anything, and wished I were dead. Then I discovered that my mom probably has NPD or something similar. After that, I felt less depression and more grief. I still cried every day, had trouble sleeping, felt physically ill, could barely eat, had episodes of self harm, etc.

Now that I am actually feeling more normal again, I keep feeling like I overstated a lot of things to my T (and people on this forum) earlier to make things seem worse than they really were. I feel really guilty about it for some reason. The truth is...when I am not having a breakdown, I am mostly OK. And despite my mom likely having some kind of personality disorder, she managed to do a pretty decent job of parenting, compared to other people with similar issues. My childhood had hard parts but it was more happy than not. Really.

But as I was agonizing over this today, I had an interesting thought, which was this: suppose I *had* been outright lying just to get attention? I suddenly realized that even if it were the case, my T would still not be judging me for it. She would probably assume I had a legitimate need for attention, and that making up stuff about how bad things were for me was the only way I knew of to get that attention. And she would understand that. I shed some tears when I figured that out, because it's so much more generous than I've ever been with myself. I don't know what it would be like to be that accepting.

I guess somehow I've always felt the duty to view everything very objectively and give great care to precisely how I express myself, so as not to mislead anyone. But is that really as important as I think it is? If I don't have any perspective or objectivity when I'm in the middle of a crisis, is that really a moral and personal failure or is that just humanity? What if I just let myself express how I felt unedited, knowing it might be a bit blown out of proportion, and let OTHER people provide the perspective I need, without having to feel guilty or judged or invalidated about it? Could I be really wrong about something and change my mind about it without feeling ashamed?

Furthermore, maybe there is more than one facet to honesty. There could be factual honesty on one hand, and emotional honesty on the other. Factual honesty is being accurate, but emotional honesty is being able to express how you really feel. And in the past I've mostly viewed honesty as just the factual kind I think.

It's all so new and interesting for me to chew on.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BLT,

Very brave Alpaca! I need to post my attention thing but it will be in "sensitive issues" when I can be uninterrupted. I relate to what you are saying but all this posting from others is what helped me with the attention issue in my last session and I feel relieved since I did. Family is around so much with these holidays so I can't elaborate.

Hi Alpaca,
I've been thinking about this kind of thing myself. Especially because I have a tendency to feel I'm blowing things out of proportion when I speak negatively about my FOO, but my T frequently tells me that I am minimizing these same things. Like you, I feel that for the most part I had a pretty good childhood and good parenting. T thinks there is some denial going on. It's hard for me to understand the difference, though, between looking on the bright side and being in denial. I'm sure there is a difference, but I suspect for me the two are very blended. When I try to sort it out in therapy, I end up feeling like I'm misrepresenting things, as you describe.

I grew up in an environment that was safe and stable for the most part, but also chronically invalidating, when it came to my emotions, thoughts, and impressions. Someone was always there to contradict or correct my version of things. I was frequently accused of misrepresenting and exaggerating. From things you've said, I've gathered you had a similar situation going on growing up.

It's been my experience that this has wreaked havoc on me emotionally, but I haven't wanted to acknowledge that, so instead of having the emotions I started sprouting symptoms-- that have, in all honesty, seemed a bit overblown to me given the actual facts of my life (very little overt abuse or neglect). Again, very similar to what you describe here. The symptoms landed me in therapy, where I've had to deal with the confused and denied emotions. . . and what do you know, my symptoms have lessened, too. I'm still struggling, though, and self validation is one of the things I struggle with the most.

Anyway, I didn't mean to make this all about me, but since it seems there are some similarities in our situations. . . I wanted to convey some of that as a way of saying that I relate.

I think it's cool that you are making so many realizations in therapy and I always enjoy reading your posts!

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Or at least like I exaggerated.

I think it's normal for everyone to lie from time to time as many times it's unintentional. Some people lie to themselves, more than to others.

I think being honest, or coming clean about it is wonderful! And could make for a good therapy session...But I'm not sure if what you are experiencing is considered lying. Like you mentioned, it could be your feeling of how things are.

I was inclined to respond to you because I catch myself exaggerating all the time, so I wanted you to know you are not the only one. And I note it in my mind right after I do it. It's a bad habit, but it's gotten better since I've been in therapy. Though I tended to, in the past, minimize my childhood trauma, I do exaggerate in everyday life. When I'm cold-I'm freeeezing! When it feels like no one cares about me, I know for sure my son does. But I'll still spontaneously say no one cares about me...there are dozens of examples where I exaggerate.

But you sound ambivalent about your trauma, so maybe it's not about honesty vs dishonesty? It could be more related to black and white thinking-you see the good your Mom did, then suddenly, not too long ago, recognized the bad. So maybe it's more that you are integrating good and bad feelings about childhood, while before you realized some of your Mom's negative traits, you held on to the 'good' in her?

My therapist and I recently talked about this. My major depression started right about the time when my mother's negative traits seeped into my consciousness. I had held on to my positive thoughts about her for so long-idealizing-that's what children do to survive. It points to how we have unconscious ways of distorting reality to survive.

It's hard to integrate it all after these realizations. It's a struggle. So it doesn't seem about lying to me, though if it does to you, I think you are courageous to talk about it. You sound like a really honest person to me.

I'm glad to hear you have gotten better, gotten your motivation back, and are processing grief rather than feeling the depression and feelings of wanting to die. I know how horrible those feeings are.

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My childhood had hard parts but it was more happy than not. Really.

This is good to hear.

I just don't see that you were lying to get attention, I just think you're dealing with the feelings of the realization of your Mom's good and bad sides; integrating, which is inner conflict. Everything you say here speaks of inner conflict. But that's only my perception-your perception is what's important obviously.

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And she would understand that. I shed some tears when I figured that out, because it's so much more generous than I've ever been with myself. I don't know what it would be like to be that accepting.

I hope you can talk this over with your therapist. I bet she will accept you, and not be judgemental, regardless if you felt you were exaggerating or lying or not. That's intimacy-sharing all feelings, not just the positive side of us.

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But is that really as important as I think it is?..What if I just let myself express how I felt unedited, knowing it might be a bit blown out of proportion, and let OTHER people provide the perspective I need, without having to feel guilty or judged or invalidated about it? Could I be really wrong about something and change my mind about it without feeling ashamed?

That's a big part of my therapy; getting out my feelings and thoughts without the 'filters'. And if your therapist is good, and it seems she is, then it will not be a matter of right/ wrong, it will be a matter of understanding, empathy, and helping shape your sense of self.

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Furthermore, maybe there is more than one facet to honesty. There could be factual honesty on one hand, and emotional honesty on the other. Factual honesty is being accurate, but emotional honesty is being able to express how you really feel.

I think that's true. And even my therapist lied to me one time, and it was ok because it was a facet of honesty. Sometimes, telling white lies can help a person. Destructive lying is different. The man I dated, who had NPD, didn't even know he was lying. He lied about what he had for lunch. Even that, I think, is a facet of lying because it's more of a psychosis-he didn't even know it. Lying to harm another is a different facet. If you were lying, you meant no harm. That's just where you were at at the moment.

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Because my mom was a huge stickler for the factual kind, but emotionally she is a huge, enormous liar. She barely knows what she's actually feeling herself, and she certainly can't express it openly to others very well.

My Dad was about factual and emotional honesty; my Mom both factually and emotional dishonesty. So this strange and polar opposite mix affected me in many ways. I have trouble expressing emotion at times, but I don't consider it emotional dishonesty (not that I never had this either). I somatacized many of my emotions; they get too intense to describe in words, so they apper to me as pictures or physical feelings sometimes. Acting out, imo, can be a facet of emotional dishonesty. My Mom rages constantly about the guy at the bank, the cop directing traffic, the stock market outcome...but I don't consider that emotional dishonesty as much as I consider it denial and being out of touch with your emotions. Which is not intentional. She is just too far gone to get in touch with her emotions at this point. But denial is a form of emotional dishonestly too.

Interesting topic, thanks.

Thank you for the kind replies, everyone. They have been interesting to read. I guess what I meant when I said I felt like I was lying or exaggerating, was that I felt that way EVEN THOUGH I rationally knew I hadn't actually been lying. But that it was also so interesting for me to realize that even if I had been lying, it wouldn't necessarily make me a horrible, unlovable person.

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It's been my experience that this has wreaked havoc on me emotionally, but I haven't wanted to acknowledge that, so instead of having the emotions I started sprouting symptoms-- that have, in all honesty, seemed a bit overblown to me given the actual facts of my life (very little overt abuse or neglect)

I know what you mean, there. I think maybe the symptoms come out so severe because things have been accumulating over the time we wanted to stay in denial and not deal with the feelings.

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It's hard to integrate it all after these realizations. It's a struggle. So it doesn't seem about lying to me, though if it does to you, I think you are courageous to talk about it. You sound like a really honest person to me.

I think you are right. Even though I feel guilty as though I had been lying, it's not actually lying. It's struggling to integrate different sides of things (myself, my mother, my childhood) which are frankly quite difficult to reconcile. I feel ashamed to be struggling with it so much, as though I should easily be able to just come up with a balanced picture without having to flip flop between idealization and seeing just the bad. But...maybe that's the only way to go about it at first. Also...thanks

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Everything you say here speaks of inner conflict.

Yes, I guess that is true. It's a new experience for me to let other people (this forum, my T) see me struggle openly so much. In the past I always felt the need to iron out everything for myself first before sharing any thoughts with others. It feels awkward and unsafe to allow anyone to see how conflicted I really am, but so far everyone's been really nice about it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BLT,

I have constantly felt I am lying or exaggerating and I have dissociated an aspect of myself to enforce those beliefs and keep me quiet about anything from events I don't know happened (memories that are surfacing), events I am 100% sure happened and my feelings about either. I can't really talk about it in detail, because I am struggling with it so intensely right now. We spend a good deal of time in therapy exposing the invalidation, as it otherwise prevents me from saying anything. The early months, I could barely avoid understating every single feeling or experience I had as a result. It delayed so many things, because I was paralyzed to share anything. It is exhausting and painful, constantly feeling as if the things you think and feel and say aren't true, are lies, exaggerations, manipulations (even my honest identification of a need feels like one), attention-seeking. I can commiserate and am very sorry for anyone who also feels this way. My T has guessed my mom has at least some narcissistic tendencies from my descriptions of her relationships within our family, but as far as I know, she has never been diagnosed with anything.

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What if I just let myself express how I felt unedited, knowing it might be a bit blown out of proportion, and let OTHER people provide the perspective I need, without having to feel guilty or judged or invalidated about it? Could I be really wrong about something and change my mind about it without feeling ashamed?

My T has really shown me that I can say what I think I feel or express it and modify it later or change it, he never would EVER say, :but YOU said....!". He knows that I am slowly coming to grips with a reality that is murky for me at times, and i still think I minimize a lot, without even knowing I am doing it. When I scream out that it was really REALLY bad, I often slink away feeling a bit of a fraud, as it feels unreal to be doing that, but actually I have found out that I have not even begun to grasp the enormity of the traumas.

A small thing (apparently small to others) can upset us as a child, deeply and profoundly - so the T's job is to work out what felt awful to us and listen to that.

So I sympathize. It is hard.

Sometimes I feel like I am lying when infact I am just beginning to talk about something that a whole part of my mind still wants to minimize.

And thank god our T's do just what we DON'T expect

Whatever the case may be, Alpaca, it sounds like you are exploring your sense of self (or however you would describe it in your own words). Good therapy works all week long, and you seem to be working hard.