So. Very. Angry!!!

#)(*%&#)(&%#@*(&*@*#()%&@#*()%&#)*(%&@#)*(&%)*(#&%)*(#&%)*(#&%*(#&%*)#@(%&()&*(_!@*_()!@*$)(*^%#&_()@!*(#%*#.

I just had group, and I got so incredibly mad during it that I had this...weird pain? in my back? the whole time I was trying to bike home. I just couldn't. Normally I can throw myself up a hill (metaphorically speaking) and just get it all out on the road and really go and sort-of work through being angry when I'm cycling but after group I just had this PAIN that was all about being angry but that I couldn't stop. It felt like physical back pain, the kind that makes you lay on the ground and try to make it stop hurting.

BAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*Ahem* Sorry. calmer now. It was just really nice to... vent. pointlessly. I feel better.

Wynne,
Nothing pointless about that venting. That kind of pain is an indication that your emotions are so intense that your nervous system was overloading and that translates into physical pain. Being able to express yourself (quite eloquently I might add, that was one of the finest use of special characters I've ever seen. ) helps bleed off some of the extra energy and helps with the pain.

I don't know if you've read any of Shrinklady's articles on the Nervous System but she does a really good job explaining what's happening on neurolbiological level. And in a manner that's actually possible to understand. The articles on Activation and Discharge would probably be really applicable.

BTW, do you want to talk about what got you so angry? I don't want to push if you don't want to discuss it but wanted you to know you're welcome to.

Okay, so, in addition to being really mad during group, the results are in, and it looks like I dissociated, too. Right when we were all talking about _me_, and everyone was watching.

One of them even brought it up about 10 minutes after the dissociation started - and then the session ran out of time. It was apparently Quite Noticeable - like I just wasn't there.

Not cool.

HI Wynne,

I just wanted to chime in and say I hope your pain is subsiding. I imagine you will have lots to discuss with your Tfella about your anger, pain, and dissociation.

thinking of you,

Well, incognito, it's tricky, because it's group therapy - I don't know if anybody else here is in that, though I remember AG said she'd done it once, long ago.

So it's me, and Tfella, and a Tlady, and four other folks. And this is pretty much the kind of therapy I'm going to be in until August 2009 - other than seeing Tfella twice more (once in December, once Sometime When I Need It).

So I really don't think that I will get to have lots to discuss. I'll have to have it out with all of them, as it were. And it's just not the same. All of the clients in the group come from totally different backgrounds with very different Stuff, so they don't all even get the... I don't know. I don't think any of them know what dissociation is, and I'll be d*mned if I'm going to be their lesson. *grumble mutter*

Sorry, still not very happy about it. At all. I feel like a freak on show, among other things.

Seems like a lot of folks have had troubling sessions today and yesterday, though. I think my grandma would have said, "Must be the moon."

Hi Wynne,
OK, first thing, you are NOT a freak. Say that again and I will get out the HTML slapper (and I'm working on a 2nd Gen version that's new, improved and slaps harder!).

You are exhibiting behavior that happens not because of what you are or things that you did,but in response to something that was done to you. If it says anything about you, its says that you were strong and creative enough to survive something out of the ordinary.

All that said I can see where dissassociating in front of other people would be upsetting. I've only had it happen in front of family members or with my T and that was bad enough. So I'm sorry, I know it must be hard to deal with.

When I was in group therapy, there were around 10 people and two therapists, one of whom was my individual T at the time. I continued to see her for individual appts during the 15 week period while the group was meeting. I agree with you, the dynamics of a group are vastly different, there's rough and tumble and even a competitiveness to group that you don't find in individual therapy. I'm sorry you can't do that because I did find it helpful to go to my individual sessions and work through some of the stuff that happened in group. I really benefited from the group therapy because it made some things obvious to me about myself that I had not realized. I especially remember one woman who was ALWAYS angry, but could never express her obvious (at least from the outside) pain and hurt. I was always hurt but could never recognize or own my anger. It was in watching her that I realized what I was doing, so it really got me past a major hurtle. Anger has always been problematic for me.

So I know it must be tough, not being able to see Tfella for regular individual appts, but you can always come here for what its worth.

And you're not a freak.

AG

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
Say that again and I will get out the HTML slapper (and I'm working on a 2nd Gen version that's new, improved and slaps harder!).

*represses _completely_ inappropriate joke*

quote:

You are exhibiting behavior that happens not because of what you are or things that you did,but in response to something that was done to you. If it says anything about you, its says that you were strong and creative enough to survive something out of the ordinary.

That's the weird thing. When I did it, I felt like it was an almost-choice: like I decided I wasn't going to "give them" anything, and then I closed down, went away. I feel like I had some small bit of control over it, and could have tried to stop. But I didn't, because I didn't _want_ to.

I'm not sure I actually could have stopped it, by the by. It just felt a little choice-y. Since it felt that way, I end up blaming myself for it. The what you've said sounds great, I just... yeah. I just don't "get" it, buy it, accept it. I feel like trash and blame myself for doing something bad and counter-productive.

*tries to use new vocab* *mostly fails*

Wynne,
I hate that you feel like trash. I completely understand it because I know how long and hard I've struggled with feeling like that. You're not trash, you just got treated it like it. But when we're little we take in the wrong way.

About the choice thing, one of the most intense sessions I ever had with my present T (which is saying alot as I have a tendency to be a little intense normally. On the emotional intensity bell curve of human behavior I tend to be several standard deviations from center. ) was about going to and remembering the moment in which I would make the "choice" to go away. I started having really bad physical flashbacks, my T later described it as looking like I wanted to jump out of my skin. I was in an intolerable place where I couldn't stay because what going on was so intense and overwhelming that it felt like it would utterly destory me, but if I left, I went to a gray place where I was utterly alone and wasn't sure I could make it back from. But at least there was no pain there because I was too numb. How much of a "choice" does it sound like that was?

quote:

I feel like I had some small bit of control over it, and could have tried to stop. But I didn't, because I didn't _want_ to.

When all your experience tells you its bad to stick around, why would you choose to? That would be insane. This is where the bind comes in, that you will have to learn to stay and experience that its different now when you stay. But I'm not sure if group therapy is a good place to do that, so I'm totally getting why you left. I would have.

I know people are probably getting tired of hearing this one, but please think of someone else on the site saying about themselves what you're saying about yourself and see how true you would think it was. The intensity of our feelings about ourselves can be so strong that it makes it feel like an unarguable truth, but its NOT reality.

And it is a new vocabulary and it takes a while to learn it. And whenever you feel slow, come talk to me, I've been at this for more than 20+ years (ME=SNAIL).

AG

Oh, and could you PM me the completely inappropriate joke?

quote:

On the emotional intensity bell curve of human behavior I tend to be several standard deviations from center.

Heh.

quote:

I was in an intolerable place where I couldn't stay because what going on was so intense and overwhelming that it felt like it would utterly destroy me, but if I left, I went to a gray place where I was utterly alone and wasn't sure I could make it back from. But at least there was no pain there because I was too numb. How much of a "choice" does it sound like that was?

This is by far the best description I have ever read of the kind of dissociation I feel. 'Cause I can even remote-control the human (me) from that gray plane - it's easier, even, and I can get it to do pretty amazing things, like JM said in the "trauma issues" post. It's so much easier, sometimes I don't even _want_ to come back. And it's existentially comforting, to know that nothing can _really_ happen to me, because I can always go back there.

But I also feel like that's weakness - it's relying on a dysfunctional coping mechanism. I hear what you're saying, that there's really no choice - but somehow you learn to do it, to make that choice and stay, after a while. So it feels like even now there should be a choice, of some kind.

One of the reasons I've only-once-ever-and-not-since had a problem actually _getting_ to therapy is because I've told myself that not going is hiding, it's a weakness, it's a cowardice where I'm running away and not facing things and not being productive. So I always go, feel good or feel bad. It seems like dissociation should be the same thing: that I should be able to 'suck it up' and just...stay.

I know this is just an unhelpful reiteration of what I said the post before. I guess...I'm just trying to get it out?

So, have you folks not wanted to go back to therapy after a session where you get mad and then get embarrassed and feel bad about yourself? I don't really want to go to group on Wednesday - I've been dreading it pretty heavy this weekend.

Wynne, I'm on my iPod so this will be brief, I'll post more in the morning. I'm am more often than not terrified to go to my sessions. I am the best terrified driver in the world.
I've lost track of how many sessions I've started by telling my T that I had seriously thought about quitting therapy. But my favorites are when I walk in so scared that all I can do is sit and try to control my breathing for the first few minutes. So no, I have no idea what you're talking about!

There's more to come about dissassociation when I'm on an actual keyboard.

AG

Wynne,

I know just how you feel. Lately, the last 6 weeks or so I'm anxious and terrified every time I go. Last night, I was trying to think how to express myself on some things I've been thinking about for the last 2 months but I can't bring up and I got so anxious I felt like there was a heavy weight on my chest making it difficult to breathe. Usually the dread doesn't start until 24 hours before but this week it seems to be starting earlier.

I'm also going on Wednesday if I can get myself there.

quote:

But my favorites are when I walk in so scared that all I can do is sit and try to control my breathing for the first few minutes. So no, I have no idea what you're talking about!
AG

Heh. While I don't do that so much in individual sessions anymore (or rather, I should say, at this point right now), it's how I react every single week to group. Friggin' terrified. And except for the last two weeks I've just sat there and calmed myself down for the first twenty minutes or so (hour.5 sessions). I'm sure I'll be back to that pattern this week.

Boo!

And many thanks, incognito. I'm sure we can both do it. It's just... a step... at a time....to the door. *shudder*