So many of you are working on recovering from Very Bad Stuff that happened - everyone has bad stuff, to be honest, and I know everybody responds to it differently.

I'm working on Telling. I'm in group T (Tfella) with my old T and individual therapy with my new T (CalmT). I've been in the group for about 7 months now - it's a group filled with all different sorts of folks, with all different sorts of issues - depression, anxiety, eating disorders, lotsa stuff. Sometimes I feel like it's "Quick! Find a bunch of folks with Issues and put them in a fishbowl with 2 Ts, stat!"

I've talked about the stuff with my dad - wee bit psychotically manic sometimes, threatened to kill me, the usual. But there's been something I haven't managed to tell them, that happened to me for a while when I was younger, middle school like. We talked for a while on Wednesday about how to create a safe space where I felt like I could talk about it, and I actually brought it up with much coaxing. They were all pretty great about it.

I haven't managed to bring it up to CalmT yet, though, though I told him that there's something I'm not ready to talk about yet.

I go back and forth on it. It wasn't really what I think it was, it wasn't that bad, I'm making a big deal out of nothing, it happens to everybody and everybody deals with it without being all flipped-out sensitive...

At the time I told my 'rents what was happened, and they didn't believe me. They asked to see some physical evidence or bruises or something (there weren't any). And now I have a really hard time telling.

Wynne,
It's really good to hear from you! That is really awesome that you talked to your group about what happened to you. It's really important to be able to talk about what happened to us and have other people hear and understand.

I can really understand why you would be reluctant to speak after the way your parents reacted. They should have been the first ones to hear and protect you and instead they demanded an unreasonable level of proof. And teaching you that speaking up is a bad thing.

It was incredibly courageous of you to take the step of sharing this in group and I hope that the reaction you got teaches you that speaking about it is a good thing instead.

I'm sorry you struggle with whether you're making too big a deal of it, that must make it even more difficult to deal with. I really believe that you deserve to be heard and to heal and to know that you matter. A lot.

AG

quote:

Originally posted by Hummingbird:
If your experience is anything like mine, then it goes a lot deeper than simply "telling", it is changing your whole way of being and having to let go of the only protection you have. It is terrifying and the most worthwhile thing you can do for yourself.
HB

It is like that for me, HB. And getting close to giving those up is starting to even affect me professionally for brief periods of time. Like, the thinking that maybe I'm just crazy and I suck and I should buck up and all that jazz? Doesn't go over well when you're talking to your boss. I miss the confidence and protection I had in _all_ parts of my life when I wasn't dealing with or believing this stuff.

AG,
I didn't tell them what happened so much as give what happened a name. I was afraid that they'd blame me? for it happening to me? And that's not crazytalk, either: at one point, when I told the group about participating in some of the crazy@$$ $(*# that my dad did when he was psychotically manic, one of them asked me, "Well, what were you doing _____ (hauling on that giant steel table/putting your mom in a dangerous situation/at the junkyard, insert lots of stories, etc etc) in the first place?"

But I told them that what had happened to me when I was a kid that I hadn't told them about yet was sexual abuse, they listened and were cool with it, even though I didn't tell them what happened. I called it that, even though all the time I hear (in my head) no it's not that, that's silly, that's something that happens to other people, other people who _really_ have that happen have ___ happen to them (insert whatever condition doesn't apply to me), it doesn't count 'cause there wasn't ___ (insert whatever ridiculous condition my head comes up with again), it wasn't that bad, it's not important, stop talking, it didn't really happen, you're making it up, you're overreacting, if it'd happened someone would have helped you, how could they _not_ have helped you, they would have remembered what you told them and done something, someday.

*ponders* Denial is really funny when you write it all out like that.

quote:

*ponders* Denial is really funny when you write it all out like that.

So keep writing... here, there, and anywhere. It's your voice and it sounds good despite the terrible truths there are behind it.

You can keep writing or talking about all the ifs, ands, and buts until you run out of them, and that's ok. Because I believe you and I think everyone else here does to.

JM

quote:

Denial is really funny when you write it all out like that.

You know Wynne, I really wish denial worked, too. I have often longed not to see the holes in the logic of denial (like the rest of my f.o.o.). I remember when my mom would say really awful things to my brother and I, and we would be upset, my dad would swoop in with all the comfort of a bed of nails and say "just let it go in one ear and out the other." WTF is that? I mean, really? Does that work for ANYONE? Who hears their mother tell them to leave and never come back and ISN'T bothered by it?

Anyway, I am glad you gave your issue a name. I imagine that was very difficult, and I am proud of you for being willing to step outside the sickness that is denial. I encourage you to practice validating your experience outside of the context of comparison. Imagine it was your kid or sister or friend that this happened to... would you tell them that it wasn't that bad? That it's not important? That they're overreacting? Often, learning to be gentle with ourselves is one of the hardest parts of recovery. Accepting what has happened to me without judging myself for it is a struggle I face daily, and I often still lose. But I know i have to do it.

I'd like to share one of the best things my T ever said to me: I had been talking about how I see myself the way my mother always saw herself (stupid, useless, worthless, etc.). My T said "Why are you so content to judge yourself based on the perceptions and actions of a F***** up person?" I had never thought of it like that before- it was the most impactful thing she has ever said. I hope that you do not continue to judge your experience based on the reactions of the people around you. I know it's easier said than done, but it is my hope for you nonetheless.

-CT

quote:

it wasn't that bad, it's not important, stop talking, it didn't really happen, you're making it up, you're overreacting, if it'd happened someone would have helped you, how could they _not_ have helped you, they would have remembered what you told them and done something, someday.

*ponders* Denial is really funny when you write it all out like that.

Wynne...

I think you minimize your experience too much. The severity of the abuse is not important....what is important is how you internalized it and your deep felt reaction to your experience.
It was horrible for you...but because you see others as having had more extreme abuses. You may believe that yours was insignificant. It was not! I guess I would just like you to understand that and know that we understand it too.

I had some really horrific experiences and most of them I would not dare post in the open forum. But my reaction to them is no different than yours. I may have developed a more extreme way of coping with it but the emotional responses are the same. We are not that different...and my experience of abuse is no more "valid" than yours.

Denial exists in every "state"....hmmmm....multiple meanings there
It's a HUGE city and way too overcrowded. I've lived there myself but decided I HAD to move! It's way too dangerous and painful there.

SD

Unfortunately it seems that the only ways out denial city are through those awful crime-ridden suburbs of guilt, self-loathing, doubt, shame and fear. At least that is were I usually get stuck when I run out of gas.

Wynne,

I was never sexually abused, but I was the victim of a form of humiliation during the same time frame; middle school. As you're learning, it takes one hell of a lot of courage to talk about that stuff. It takes guts to get it out, then to talk about the details is ever harder, but talking about the details is critical because you are then able to define exactly what it was, and then you can start to quiet all those voices and work through it. Keep at it.

quote:

Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
"just let it go in one ear and out the other." WTF is that? I mean, really? Does that work for ANYONE? Who hears their mother tell them to leave and never come back and ISN'T bothered by it?

to paraphrase my T, when a parent says someone like that to a child it's like shooting them in the stomach with a shotgun.

quote:

Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
"Why are you so content to judge yourself based on the perceptions and actions of a F***** up person?"
-CT

That one might just go on the fridge. Brilliant.

Russ

quote:

even though all the time I hear (in my head) no it's not that, that's silly, that's something that happens to other people, other people who _really_ have that happen have ___ happen to them (insert whatever condition doesn't apply to me), it doesn't count 'cause there wasn't ___ (insert whatever ridiculous condition my head comes up with again), it wasn't that bad, it's not important, stop talking, it didn't really happen, you're making it up, you're overreacting, if it'd happened someone would have helped you, how could they _not_ have helped you, they would have remembered what you told them and done something, someday.

*ponders* Denial is really funny when you write it all out like that.

Wynne, I am so sorry you suffered as a child, both from the person who abused you and from your parents. I could have written the above. I also have lots of qualifiers that mean it wasn't that bad or shouldn't still be affecting me. I told my parents and while they didn't accuse me of lying what they did was say "we'll get you help" and then I went to bed and they never mentioned it again. I remember months of thinking they will do something sometime, right. They really aren't going to leave me alone.

I think it is great you could tell your group even the name. Keep telling as much as you can online or in group. I have found that the honest reactions of my T, my husband, the couple of close friends I have told this year and the support I have received online has done more to challenge the denial I have lived in than any of the thinking, analyzing, rationalizing over the last 30 years I've done in my mind.

I don't think I'm very much further on this journey than you because I still struggle with the denial but I am thinking of you and wishing you well.

Wynne,
I was very moved by your post - it really struck a chord with me. It makes perfect sense to me that Telling would feel very difficult based on the reactions you had from your parents in the past. I'm so glad that you made the leap to share and also that your sharing was received respectfully by the folks in your group.

I'm impressed by all the insight offered by all the folks in this forum already - i would like to "me too" a lot of what has been said. The only other thing that i think of is something that i have been working on lately with my T... the idea that we can't simply judge events as 'big deal' or 'no biggie' on some sort of Richter scale of human suffering/experience. To say 'this shouldn't be a big deal or affect me because other people have been through worse' isn't an accurate measure of an experience.

So when I say in sessions "Whatever, it wasn't a big deal, I shouldn't have this big a reaction to it" my T's response is to say "If you're having a big reaction to it, then it was a big deal."

Not sure if this feels useful to you, but it has been a good thing for me to work on. I don't think I've really internalized it yet, but I'm trying to...

HB:

quote:

So yea, Wynne even though your head is saying this doesn't really apply and it wasn't really like that, it is time to start listening to that part of you that knows better, that part that knows exactly how it was and how it felt.

SC:

quote:

So when I say in sessions "Whatever, it wasn't a big deal, I shouldn't have this big a reaction to it" my T's response is to say "If you're having a big reaction to it, then it was a big deal."

Incognito:

quote:

I think it is great you could tell your group even the name. Keep telling as much as you can online or in group.

Russ:

quote:

It takes guts to get it out, then to talk about the details is ever harder, but talking about the details is critical because you are then able to define exactly what it was, and then you can start to quiet all those voices and work through it. Keep at it.

River:

quote:

Unfortunately it seems that the only ways out denial city are through those awful crime-ridden suburbs of guilt, self-loathing, doubt, shame and fear.

SD:

quote:

Denial exists in every "state"....hmmmm....multiple meanings there Wink
It's a HUGE city and way too overcrowded. I've lived there myself but decided I HAD to move! It's way too dangerous and painful there. Smiler

CT:

quote:

I encourage you to practice validating your experience outside of the context of comparison. Imagine it was your kid or sister or friend that this happened to... would you tell them that it wasn't that bad? That it's not important? That they're overreacting? Often, learning to be gentle with ourselves is one of the hardest parts of recovery. Accepting what has happened to me without judging myself for it is a struggle I face daily, and I often still lose. But I know i have to do it.

JM:

quote:

So keep writing... here, there, and anywhere. It's your voice and it sounds good despite the terrible truths there are behind it.

You can keep writing or talking about all the ifs, ands, and buts until you run out of them, and that's ok. Because I believe you and I think everyone else here does to.

Best responses ever. I live with a housemate, so this isn't exactly going on the fridge. But I've been struggling the past many days with going _back_ to group after having told them that. I hearing that I'm a horrible liar, that I shouldn't go back, that now they're going to want me to talk about it, that once they really know it all they'll think I'm bad and weak and... and it keeps going. But I read these things and it calms me down a bit. I wanted to thank ya'll.

I got the idea from the replies that other folks have things that make them feel this way?

quote:

Originally posted by Wynne:
...that once they really know it all they'll think I'm bad and weak and... and it keeps going.

Wynne,

This cracks me up. This whole b.s. macho idea that it's "weak" to talk about insanely painful things. It's all part of the twisted image of male strength that our broken culture has created and crammed down our throats...you know, "suck it up, it's not that bad," "be a man, don't be so sensitive," "did we hurt your precious feelings? awwwwww that's too bad." it's all 100%, grade-A, All American b.s.

roughing up some guy on the athletic field isn't toughness. having the guts to get to the bottom of your neurosis, that is toughness.

Russ

I'm not a guy, Russ, but I think I can kind-of imagine the macho-pressure that you're talking about. I think I deal a little more with being called an overly sensitive person, overreacting, that sort of thing.

Different flavor, same kinda b.s., I think.

quote:

Originally posted by Wynne:
I'm not a guy, Russ, but I think I can kind-of imagine the macho-pressure that you're talking about. I think I deal a little more with being called an overly sensitive person, overreacting, that sort of thing.

Different flavor, same kinda b.s., I think.

Oh no!!! Sorry Wynne!! I thought I'd read in another post you referring to yourself as a dude. My mistake...how embarrassing!

Anyway, you're right, same b.s., slightly different look. And I'll add that you have more guts than I do being in group. I'm not sure I could swing that.

Russ

No worries, man. It don't bother me. And I appreciate your take on things.