good morning all. I'm having a problem and I really have no where to turn with this. Maybe you all can give me some insight.

I had my session yesterday. Bottom line of all of it was I still blame myself for what happened in the past. T says I have to believe and change the message in my head. Well, it's been a long time and for some reason it doesn't feel any better. T says to write about it. I said I would try but I never put "real" things down on paper unless I know for sure that I will either remain anon or I know noone else would see it. Basically I don't put anything on paper. Too afraid that someone will "find out".

Anyway, since I left the session, I have felt nothing but sadness and shame and pain. I want to run away. I want to die. I want to cry. I can't do anything - i'm frozen. My T is going away for the weekend and not returning until tues also. I could call but I don't want to intrude on her private time unless it is a total emergency.

My partner and I get along quite well except for one area in our lives. My fault there too. Why does the past keep creeping into my life? I want it gone and away and it just keeps creeping back in anyway it can. I know I've said this before but that part of my life needs to die and I want it to. I don't see anyway of healing from all this crap and it is freaking me out right now!

So sorry for the outburst. I'm really frustrated and upset about all this.

{{{{{{{{smiley}}}}}}}}

No apologies for the outburst...you are obviously hurting really bad right now. I'm so sorry you are in such a tough place. You have said many times before that your relationship with your T is great, so please don't take this as a criticism of your T...but my first impression of what she said is, that isn't terribly helpful. If I could just "believe and change the message in my head" then I wouldn't need therapy. Of course there is probably more to what she is saying...but that is just my initial response to just that one thing she said, and as such, I can see why you feel "frozen". I wouldn't know what to do with that, either.

I was going to suggest maybe it might help for you to vent here about what it is you feel you are to blame for, so we can respond with more directed, pointed support...but then you said you are too afraid to write down the details for fear that someone would see. In one of your other posts, you said you prefer to email your T rather than call, but she is leaning more toward calling. But you don't want to call because it's an intrusion.

Smiley...it sounds like you are desperately trying to hold everything in, and I have to say you are really a trooper, it takes a ton of strength to do that...but it's eating you alive, I can hear it in your post, all that pain. Can I just suggest that you need to express it somehow? Is there any safe way for you to do that, so you can get the support you need? Keeping all those demons inside is making them turn on you. Here's an idea: Let them out so we and your T can help you slay them. I know it's really scary to do that...but isn't it even more scary battling them alone?

I'll be thinking about you...please keep posting and let us know how you are faring.

Hugs,
SG

smiley

I am sorry for your pain and hurt now. I haven't long but I wanted first to give you a big hug ((((((smiley)))))) and try and reply a little to you.

quote:

I still blame myself for what happened in the past. T says I have to believe and change the message in my head. Well, it's been a long time and for some reason it doesn't feel any better. T says to write about it. I said I would try but I never put "real" things down on paper unless I know for sure that I will either remain anon or I know noone else would see it. Basically I don't put anything on paper. Too afraid that someone will "find out".

I think a lot of us here still blame ourselves for what happened, it seems to come with the territory and is a really hard one to shift. I know because I could have posted exactly what you did smiley. Your T is right that you have to change the message, but I am sure she would also tell you that it takes a long time, that these firm fixed beliefs can't just change and it is a slow and painful process. Sometimes they need to be explored and even reexperinced to see where the true blame should lie. AG, if you are reading can you help out? You always put it much better than I seem to

The shame and pain cut so deep, I expect that is why you feel so awful now. It is hard smiley. If you need to ring your T and she has said that was ok, then do, but maybe be prepared that she might be away, because that can feel harder sometimes to have no reply. Have you any strategies to get you by in the meantime? The frozen feeling is hard becauseit stops you doing things that ordinarily you might have done to keep busy and pass the time.

quote:

My partner and I get along quite well except for one area in our lives. My fault there too. Why does the past keep creeping into my life? I want it gone and away and it just keeps creeping back in anyway it can

Just reading between the lines smiley, I would hazard a guess that you're not on your own there either. Can you talk to your T about that? Really really hard I know, but sometimes best said and there's nothing to lose - I expect you'll find she might realise already.

Hang in there smiley. Do keep posting, especially when your T is away. And you can always write and then destroy it, or give itt your T and ask her to destroy it. Sometimes just the act of writing things down is really helpful, even if nobody else ever sees.

Take care smiley,

starfish

Thanks for your responses SG and Starfish.
SG - I know what you are saying about the message thing, there is alot more to it but how many times can you change the message in your head and it doesn't work? They say keep telling yourself this or that and I have been. It doesn't seem to make a difference. I am so afraid to express anything - you're right it's eating me alive.

Starfish - My T always tells me it takes a long time, it's a long process, well what do you consider long? 1 yr, 5 yrs, 10,20.30? Way too long.I have no more strategies. I do the same thing and all it does is keep me alive long enough to live through another day. I play with my grandkids, I work around the house, I do alot of different things to just keep busy. We have talked about my relationship too. I don't exactly have the most understanding partner in the world. Takes everything personally and is not really supportive with me when it comes to therapy or my emotional issues.

I'm basically alone with all of this crap except for my T. There is noone else. Forget about family or friends. Most family is in denial and think I am nuts. Friends I would never tell anything about that past. OMG never. And my partner just doesn't seem to get it. Tries but just can't deal with it I guess. So I have to keep everything in and deal with it all. I'm so afraid that if I let go I will go nuts.

Hey smiley,
I have to agree with SG, it does sound like all this holding it all in, is eating you alive.And the only way to heal i have found in my healing and therapy is to find a way to express all these hurts and feelings.
I have dragged myself over hot coals for years taking all the blame and shame , so you are not alone in that thinking.
i am sorry that you dont have a supportive partner that will listen to you.or any family and friends.......sometimes though , i think that its wise to keep them out of the loop anyway, so that you can have a bit of normality as i like to call it, outside of therapy and all the stuff we drag up. but you are not alone....we are all here
maybe smiley ,the reason you are getting anxious about putting things down on paper is because you would be writing to much in one go........have you ever tried just writing little bits at a time? could you just try writing something really non threatening to your psyche and just sit there with that for a while and see how you go? then when you are comfortable with that add a little more?
I so understand the fear of people finding things that you have written and finding stuff out......i am constantly vigilant about who can see and find what.but at sometime or another i feel that you have to be brave and try, for your own sake smiley, its gonna make you ill otherwise.If you do little bits at a time..hopefully then you wont totally explode all over the paper and go 'nuts'.

hugs smiley
DF

Oh, Smiley, I wish I could just reach right through my stupid computer screen and give you the biggest real hug, and then just listen to you. I feel so much pain and sorrow in your post. I want to tell you it feels so good to see you open up to us here! I often wonder what is your story, and how much pain you seem to be in, how hard for you..
I love everything Starfish said to you...listen to her, she really understands this stuff much more than I, and SG, too...but I wanted to offer my support also to you. I know the past can really haunt us and plague us with it's accusations.

I recently had a friend tell me "you have NO self-esteem. You need to look in the mirror and tell yourself, "I can drive a car." (I was saying I had problems at times driving, because I am too slow people, are rude, etc.) Can I just say, that is not very helpful. No, what I need is someone else to drive along with me, tell me I am doing a good job, kindly say, watch for that person crossing, and repeat, I am doing fine...then maybe, I get a bit more confidence? I can tell myself, "I can drive a car" but it's not the same.

I am so touched by your story, how you play with your grandkids in the middle of all this pain. I think that is so wonderful, so kind, so good, and I just love you for it! Please keep talking here, if it helps you, dear Smiley... your story is a gift to us, truly.


I am so glad your T was there for you when your dog died, and your spouse relapsed. That is very good. You need someone to help you through such pain...that is no wrong, Smiley...I think, imo, reach out, reach out...as much as you possibly find yourself able to. To your T, to us, to anyone who feels safe to you.


(((((((smiley))))))))
xo,

BB

Sorry, I cross-posted with you, draggers!

((((smiley))))

I agree, no apologies needed. You are obviously in pain and needing help in dealing with it. I think that is something that everyone here can relate to. You said that your T said that you have to "believe and change the message in your head". I agree with SG, if it were that simple then you wouldn't need therapy! Like SG, I don't know much about how your T works or what she does with you. I can speak in general terms and from my experience though. The following is from my T and helps explain why talk therapy didn't work for me and might not work for other trauma survivors. It's not that I don't talk with my T, I certainly do, but in terms of getting to the trauma and getting it to resolve, we work on a body level and this allows my nervous system to realize that it is present day and there is no danger. It is a SLOW process, but it does work well when allowed to unfold.

Why can't I just "get over it?"

This is about as easy as willing yourself to not blink when something gets too close to your eyes. Traumatic memory is stored differently than ordinary memory, and your rational, thinking brain parts would probably rather be in charge. But they're not the parts where the distressful stuff is stored--that's deeper in the brain and outside of conscious awareness, tucked away where your rational mind can't override them. And for good reason: they help ensure your survival.

Your brain isn't letting you forget what happened, because it wants to ensure that you have a faster, more efficient response the next time you encounter something similar.
So it makes sure you remember it. What would happen if you "forgot" that a stove is hot? Or that cars sometimes run into each other? You could get hurt, right? So the brain errs on the side of caution and activates your nervous system at the slightest sign of anything even remotely similar to the original trauma. "Better to be safe than sorry" could be its slogan. But to the person, it
can be intrusive and feel out of control.

It's pretty tough to will your reflexes not to get you all charged up over nothing. That's because reflexes precede thought. Now it is possible to use rational thought to settle yourself back down, and lots of good therapies teach exactly this. But to actually change a life-preserving reflex from firing like crazy to being able to discern between
present safety and past danger before getting all cranked up is going to require more than "mind over matter." Until your nervous system can detect that the coast is clear, it will continue hijacking your thoughts, your feelings, and how your body works.

If you're traumatized, your body's natural ability to detect threat has gone into overdrive. And it can be incredibly creative in coping with trauma. Unfortunately, these adaptive responses on overdrive are often experienced as "symptoms ."

Also here is an article that explains sensorimotor psychotherapy and a bit about how and why it works. http://www.fsu.edu/~trauma/v6i3/v6i3a3.html

Like I said, I don't know what type of work your T does with you and I read that you are happy with her which is great. Perhaps it would be helpful to have her clarify what she meant by her statement and how she proposes to go about helping you to change those core beliefs. I'm sorry you are in so much pain right now.

Blimey STRMS!!!!! have you been taking lessons from AG??!!! or are you a T in disguise????

quote:

Originally posted by dragonfly:
Blimey STRMS!!!!! have you been taking lessons from AG??!!! or are you a T in disguise????

Well, the part after "Why Can't I get over this?" is from my T, but I could probably regurgitate it at this point . Up til the part where I posted the article. I thought I said it was from my T , but it wasn't so clear. I am definitely not a T (although I did go to school to be one) and nowhere even close to AG and her wisdom!

yeah you did say it was from your T,even so, you still remembered it!

quote:

nowhere even close to AG and her wisdom!

well that was pretty darn close!!!!!

oh smiley... my heart goes out to you! and no apologies - that's what this forum is here for! (I am the queen of venting.)

quote:

I'm basically alone with all of this crap except for my T. There is noone else. Forget about family or friends. Most family is in denial and think I am nuts. Friends I would never tell anything about that past. OMG never. And my partner just doesn't seem to get it. Tries but just can't deal with it I guess. So I have to keep everything in and deal with it all. I'm so afraid that if I let go I will go nuts.

yeah, families and friends are all too often not safe enough to share stuff with (i know this all too well).

Although we can't be there in person with you, you are not all alone. You are among friends who "get it" here on the forum. Keep posting and sharing as you need to...

It's ok to let it out here. It's safe here.
(I know, impossible to believe. I still don't quite get it and yet every time I post, people here - - - including you - - - have really helped me hang in and keep going. It's been healing over time! Sometimes, for me, healing is just hanging on even in the midst of all the warped messages I keep telling myself and can't seem to change...)

I'm glad you are here and I'm so sorry for your pain and heartache. It is very crummy (understatement of the century) to try and deal with all the pain and hurt and loss. Hang in there...

((((((smiley)))))

STRM - a brilliant reply, thanks for that

Janedoe, you are so right

quote:

Although we can't be there in person with you, you are not all alone. You are among friends who "get it" here on the forum. Keep posting and sharing as you need to...

That 'getting it' I think is up with the most wonderful things about this forum no quizzical looks, no disgust, no questions about things that are simply so obvious... just a heap of people who get it because they have been there themselves or would instantly know how another feels. Priceless.

starfish

quote:

I'm basically alone with all of this crap except for my T. There is noone else. Forget about family or friends. Most family is in denial and think I am nuts. Friends I would never tell anything about that past. OMG never. And my partner just doesn't seem to get it. Tries but just can't deal with it I guess. So I have to keep everything in and deal with it all. I'm so afraid that if I let go I will go nuts.

I found myself saying something like this to my T a couple weeks ago. (And I also NEVER put anything in writing anymore, since finding out decades ago that my entire family was reading my personal diary for entertainment value.)
My T said I come across as very guarded and like I am hiding something or refusing to share some part of myself; my ex-P said something similar, too, and I've also had friends say this to me in the past.

So my T encouraged me to open up, just a little if that's all I can do, to my closest friends, about my personal problems. I don't normally do this because I don't want to burden them with my "stuff", don't want them to think I'm crazy, think they won't like me anymore if they "know" about me, etc. Well, I did it. And it worked. My friends were 100% supportive and understanding, and offered advice (asking if I wanted it first!) and their help. I was so relieved to share some of the stuff that's been weighing me down, and they were relieved to know what was going on. They could all tell I have been under a lot of stress, but I act like everything is fine, so it's very confusing for people. And every time I share a part of myself and feel accepted, it gets easier. It really does!

Anyway, my point is: Don't write off everyone you know in real life as being incapable of understanding or compassion. Be selective, but DO open up to people. It makes life so much more than just bearable.

quote:

Originally posted by dragonfly:
Blimey STRMS!!!!! have you been taking lessons from AG??!!! or are you a T in disguise????

Funny - I was thinking to myself, "Wow, Strummergirl is starting to sound like a therapist!"

Hi Smiley,
I'm sorry for all the pain you're in right now, I've been in places very similar to what you're going through and I know how overwhelmingly painful, confusing and frustrating it can be. I'm really glad you came to talk about it. You have gotten a lot of really amazing input from people.

(Sidebar: Hey guys, it's immensely flattering that you use me as the measure, but seriously, I have NO corner on wisdom, nor are my responses any more valuable than anyone else's. I'm human and I have my blindspots and prejudices and weaknesses, and can mess up just as badly as the next guy, if not more. One of the things that amazes me about this community is how incredible a group of people this is, and how everyone brings wonderful strengths to the mix. The value is so often that we get different perspectives and insights. So I'd like to step down off that pedestal now, ok? Cause I don't deserve to be up on one. And STRMs, you are so close to me you often surpass me! And don't get me going about SG, I'll only make her blush. )

OK, sorry Smiley for interrupting your thread, back to the subject at hand. As I said, you got a lot of wonderful input, I especially liked what STRM said about how to heal and change. But I just wanted to talk about the whole issue of blaming yourself, since it's something I struggled with for years and have experienced a great deal of shame about what I saw as my responsibility for the abuse.

quote:

Bottom line of all of it was I still blame myself for what happened in the past. T says I have to believe and change the message in my head.

Smiley, the reasons we blame ourselves can be very complicated and are often intertwined but are a result of both the abuse we endured and how we managed to survive it.

Blaming ourselves actually served some very important purposes when we were little.

First, we are biologically driven to stay close to our attachment figure in order to survive and the will to live is incredibly strong. Most of us will do whatever we need to do to survive, and most especially children. It is only later in life that we can develop a sophisticated enough understanding of life that we can decide in some circumstances to sacrifice our lives for others or that there are worse things then death. When we're children we're just driven by an immense will to live. And for many of us, that's the only thing that allowed us to survive.

So there you are, you have to stay close to this person to live. But they're hurting, abusing or neglecting you. To face and accept who they are and what they're doing would be facing that you have NO options, you can't get what you need which at that point feels equivalent to death. It's literally intolerable. So you reject it, you don't believe it, you do what you need to in order to keep the person whom your life depends on "good." I remember at one point, when discussing my disassociation, that I used it to keep my "good" father and my "bad" father separate. The only semblance of love and affection I got from my dad was when he moved closer in order to abuse me, so I stuck around for the good parts, but when the abuse became unmistakeable and overwhelming, I literally left so I didn't have to know my father as bad. But you're still left on some level knowing ther's badness, and it can't be left where it belongs, that's too threatening, so what do we do with it? We put it on ourselves. It's the only explanation that allows us to experience our caretakers as "safe" enough to move towards. These things happened to us not because our parents failed us or were bad but because we deserved them. And when I say we decided this, I mean we learned this as a truth on a VERY DEEP, almost cellular level.

Which leads to the second reason we blame ourselves. The truth is as a child, you're completely powerless in the hands of adults. You have no control and no way to stop the abuse that's happening to you. But acknowledgement of that powerlessness would lead to despair or insanity because it was just way too much to handle (I barely felt like I could bear it as an adult when I finally came face to face with it, with my T alongside me.) Blaming ourselves for the abuse actually provides us with some hope of control over the situation. After all, if the abuse is my fault, if it's because of something I did, if I can only figure out what it is, I can make the abuse stop. We clung to our own culpability as the only thing which offered us a glimmer of hope in a hopeless situation.

Like so many of the behaviors we learned as children, blaming ourselves can be honored. It was an important part of the strategies that allowed us to survive. But like so many of the behaviors, it's usefulness has been worn out and it has even become detrimental to our well-being.

Changing the belief is long difficult work but I would argue that it doesn't really so much come from within as it comes from allowing ourselves to listen and try to accept when other people, especially our Ts who come alongside of us, make it clear it wasn't our fault. Every time I would express my shame and have someone tell me it wasn't my fault helped. Everytime I confessed how I felt, expecting to be driven out in disgust, and instead was met with acceptance and compassion, it receded if only a little.

It is so difficult to express our shame. The whole point of shame is to get us to STOP. But that's what had to happen, we need to talk about it so that we can learn that we really didn't have anything to be ashamed of. I've included a link below to one of my posts about a time I dealt with a very deep sense of shame, hoping that the illustration helps.


Incredibly painful shame

There's one last thing I want to say to you. It wasn't your fault. I understand why you feel that way, I know how deep the belief runs and how true it feels to you, but that doesn't make it true. It's a lie. and we'll all keep saying that as many times as we need to until you can start to believe it along with us. You were an innocent child and the lack wasn't in your nor was the wrongness. Those things were in the people who failed you.

AG