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For some odd reason I am proud of that. Or maybe I am proud of her. Not sure which.

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Originally posted by Hummingbird:
JM everytime you go deeply into the pain you come out the other side with such depth of understanding and wisdom that all of us hold our breath waiting to hear from you, to hear what you have to say. But i bet you can't see that either.

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And I get the sense that with the way your father acted that it comes as a surprise for you to realize that your mother was emotinally distant too. The women we never expected would or could be. It was a shock to me too.

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It is probably not surprising that I have so much trouble interpreting what my T says. Also, it makes me feel a lot of relief to know others struggle with the T relationship and it can work out.

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Originally posted by Just Me:

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And I get the sense that with the way your father acted that it comes as a surprise for you to realize that your mother was emotinally distant too. The women we never expected would or could be. It was a shock to me too.

I was going to add to this if it's ok Russ: Because we HAD to believe that our mothers were there for us when we were children. With our fathers being so detached and unavailable we could not have beared knowing our mothers didn't fit the bill either. I know I created fantasy mothers because my mother was sorely not meeting my needs, but the painful reality of that can only be dealt with now. When one parent is so far removed from the process we have to invent a perceived truth that the other one is more available. I think many of us have done that because we cannot bear the real truth at such a young age and now we are experiencing the grief and loss of what we really never had.

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Almost all patients who enter into a psychotherapeutic process struggle with the unconscious wish to view the therapist as the ideal parent who, unlike the real parents, will gratify all their childhood wishes (19). As a result of the longings stirred up by the basic transference situation of psychotherapy or psychoanalysis, it is imperative that some degree of abstinence be maintained (20). However, strict abstinence is neither desirable nor possible, and total frustration of all the patient's wishes creates a powerful influence on the patient in its own right (8, 19).

In attempting to delineate the appropriate role for the therapist vis-a-vis the patient's wishes and longings to be loved and held, it is useful to differentiate between "libidinal demands," which cannot be gratified without entering into ethical transgressions and damaging enactments, and "growth needs," which prevent growth if not gratified to some extent (21 ). Greenson (22) made a similar distinction when he noted that the rule of abstinence was constructed to avoid the gratification of a patient's neurotic and infantile wishes, not to lead to a sterile form of treatment in which all the patient's wishes are frustrated.

Efforts to delineate the two varieties of needs often lead to problems in the area of defining the appropriate role for the therapist. Certainly, the patient may have legitimate wishes to be empathically understood, but when the therapist goes too far in the direction of trying to provide parental functions that were not supplied by the original parents, the patient may experience the therapist as making false promises.

Casement (21 ) expressed reservations about Freud's providing a meal to the Rat Man because of the possibility that the patient may have experienced Freud's taking responsibility for a particular part of his life as an implicit promise that Freud was prepared to take over responsibility for other areas of the patient's life as well. Clearly, a therapist cannot become the "good mother" or "good father" in a literal sense and attempt to make up for all the deprivations of childhood.

Even when therapists feel as though they are being coerced into a parental role by their patients, they must strive not to conform to the patients' expectations. Spruiell (1 7) made the following observation: "It is as disastrous for analysts to actually treat their patients like children as it is for analysts to treat their own children as patients" (p. 12).

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Clearly, a therapist cannot become the "good mother" or "good father" in a literal sense and attempt to make up for all the deprivations of childhood.

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I am really struggling with this. It's easy to accept stuff like this about my father. His lousy parenting is clear, but my mother is a different story, and your response above illustrates the causes of why I'm having so much trouble with this idea perfectly. She wasn't overly warm and affectionate, but she also exhibited real authentic caring for me in many cases, too, like when I was extremely ill as a child. So it's confusing as hell.

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Originally posted by Attachment Girl:

Russ,
I agree with you that JM described it perfectly! I just wanted to tell you that this perfectly describes my mother also. My father disappeared after my parents divorced and left my mother to raise four children alone. And she managed, often working long hours in a factory to keep us clothed and fed. And I also, have really good memories of being wonderfully pampered when I was sick. So my mother is more mixed for me. And in some ways it was more ok to "lose" dad, I still had mom. I find it deeply ironic that it was less painful to face the damage done by the one who actually abused me and to forgive him, than it is to deal with my mom.

The pain is so much deeper because I think that to also lose mom would have been to lose everything. I also struggle with guilt because there was more good that flowed from her, and even in some ways, deep sacrifices. My T is spending a lot of time telling me that acknowledging my loss and anger does not make that good disappear or even become unknown.

AG

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My T is spending a lot of time telling me that acknowledging my loss and anger does not make that good disappear or even become unknown.

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I also struggle with guilt because there was more good that flowed from her, and even in some ways, deep sacrifices. My T is spending a lot of time telling me that acknowledging my loss and anger does not make that good disappear or even become unknown.