Hi MH,

Sounds like you're having a rough time like the rest of us.

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I am always looking for a reaction. I guess I equate a T's being "in control" of themselves with not being real. Is it actually possible she has nothing to hide? No covered-up anger or boredom? No secret judgments? What, is she an android or a human?

I wonder this myself about my own T. But then I get a 'real' reaction from her and see she is all too real. Ugh. I finally had the courage to tell her she is like no one else I know and that I think she is a fun person (after she sat there trying to coax it out of me for ten whole minutes) and her reaction was to say, "Really? I'm a dime-a-dozen, MTF!" WTF? Sometimes I think I'd rather have the android responses.

I agree with Jill. You are safe with your T. It's clear that she knows what she's doing and that you're not going to push her around with your efforts to provoke her. I agree with you that you probably hurt her with the texts. It's obvious she cares about you, MH. But I hear your fears about TN's situation and know it's kicked up my own fears about my T and what it will take to get her to change her mind about me and send me packing. It's scary. Our relationships with our Ts are so darned important to us, and we seem so disposable to them. It's a very vulnerable place to be. But I think you're safe, MH. I don't think your T is going anywhere, or that she plans to send YOU anywhere, either. I hope by now you're feeling a lot better.

(((MH)))
MTF

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I think I might wanted to say that she would love me or I would feel loved be her, while because he is a man he can't love me and I can't even expect that.

Amazon, it makes me really sad that you feel your T can't love you. I guess I too sometimes feel I can't expect love, but probably with male T's its more complex to sort out. Also as has been mentioned elsewhere, I think T's of the opposite sex tend to be tighter with their boundaries, perhaps too tight.

I talked to my T about hugs for the first time yesterday. Amazon, I told her how your T had given you hugs before, then refused for awhile and it was hard to sort out why. My T said she will sometimes refuse hugs, that she doesn't want her clients coming in expecting that they always get a hug no matter what. I asked her why she might refuse a hug, and she said one reason is if giving it would reward negative behavior. I said, "Like if I were having a temper tantrum and then wanted a hug, you'd say No?" She said, "That's right." I pointed out that as of yet I haven't really screamed at her or cussed up a storm or thrown things but maybe it was coming, heh heh. (I couldn't help smiling thinking of when you broke your T's clock. I bet that felt good. )

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i could never really WANT to be in control, so i am impressed with your confidence to handle that. curious what your t's comment will be, please post,

Jill, I have to say that I never saw myself as having confidence, so please don't be impressed! I did share your comment in session yesterday, and T did smile and think you were wise. She reiterated that I can't control her because if she were to allow that then I wouldn't be able to trust her. Last week (after I had mentioned Jane's equine therapy) she compared me to a scared colt, and how part of earning the trust of a horse is to let it know who is in charge and that it won't get hurt.

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I recently told him that I get more attention from him when I am being bad and that even the sessions go longer when I am bad or we are discussing the bad stuff I did between sessions than they do when I have been good. He has tried to make sure that doesnt happen and will purposely try to spend extra time with me when I am doing good.

Pippi, I think it is interesting that you recognized this pattern before he did and had to point it out to him. I mean, he's supposed to be the expert. Why didn't he see how he was reinforcing your behavior? But at least he listened to you and is trying to do better.

As to understanding our compulsion to repeat this potentially destructive behavior, I have read that it is the unconscious way we try to re-enact prior attachment trauma in order to gain some sort of mastery over it. Doesn't completely make sense to me either though.

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Sometimes I think I'd rather have the android responses.

I'm sorry, MTF. I know you are right. I know if I succeed in provoking supposedly "real" responses I will be miserable afterward. Its like I have this drive to speed up the self-destruction of the therapy, almost like knowing you are going to die and just wanting to get it over with quicker rather than dragging it out.

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I agree with you that you probably hurt her with the texts. It's obvious she cares about you, MH.

Yes, I am now in a regretful stage of this cycle, kicking myself wanting to be closer to T instead of further away. I've talked to her about TN's T and my fears. She reassures me she's not going anywhere. She repeatedly says, "In the end it won't be me who leaves, but you, when you're ready to fly."

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"In the end it won't be me who leaves, but you, when you're ready to fly."

I love that. There is hope there, that we will be able and ready to fly. I can't imagine it yet. I wonder would it would be like, but I can't do this yet.

The thing about love is that I don't know if I am allowed to feel loved by him. I don't know if this is the point of therapy and I don't know how it would work. If he could never say that he loves me then how can I claim that he does? I don't want to take something that is not given to me. I don't get it.

However two things happened. Once I thought I could have tea with him in his new office and I sort of understood that he would make it. He said that he wouldn't. The other time he mentioned putting a bookshelf in his new office and bringing over some books. I asked if I could borrow a book then and he refused.

Now I sometimes buy tea or coffee in the coffee shop and have it during the session. Then I saw what book he was reading and said that even if he wouldn't loan it to me I still could get it on Amazon.
And then he said something about him not giving me something, but I could still get it myself sort of thing... I don't know. I really don't know.

MH, the thing about me breaking the clock, felt very ackward actually. I felt very self-counscious, but I did it, because... I could, I was allowed, I had a chance to do this?. I constantly complain about the clock and the time passing by in my session. He wouldn't let me damage or throw around anything else though. That was a one off event

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I related your story to my T today, to illustrate my paradoxical fear and need to test her to see if I could "break" her. The thing is, if I succeeded in provoking her, I doubt I could get over it either. My T said the same thing. She asked if your experience had hurt or helped you, and I said you still weren't completely over it, and she wasn't surprised.

HI MH and Forlorn;
I have not been on lately and honestly I have not read all of the thread, but I wanted to tell you what happened when I brought this-(I had the distinct honor of being the only client he has ever yelled at. It was and is a very hard place to come back from. It even bothers me to write about it.) up to my T.

He said that it hurts him to know that it still interferes with our relationship, and he will apologize as much as I need for it. He takes full responsibility, and It happened because I triggered something from his past. I explained that my growth needs to come from not taking blame for stuff that is not mine. When someone yells- by the fact that they are yelling- I assume they must be right and that I am wrong and I caused the yelling, and I am the scared child again. I am now at least aware of this, and can sit back and observe and make a choice as to take responsibility or not. I still have trouble with knowing what is mine- and what is not mine (responsibility wise), and I still react- initially the same way, but the awareness is growth. The awareness comes from my T and I working through this, and he says it is us- not me, not him, us. It is part of our dynamics and together we will get through it. That is comforting to know.
Does it still hurt- my answer is yes, but sometimes the best growth comes this way- as long as I continue to stay strong and deal with it. We will trigger each other at times- because it is the process. This is a process that I believe in so eventually I will be stronger for it. I know that. And I know my T cares for me.
So Jill- your negative talk about your T will not trigger me- no worries. I am blessed to have a T that not only truly cares about me, but is also human and can admit when he makes mistakes.

He also wanted to borrow my book- A General theory of Love by Lewis et al.

I am thrilled! Great book