<<<CSA TRIGGERS>>>>

incognito. i am sorry you are struggling. i do think that is an unusual response by t. one thing that all t's have tried to reassure me regarding csa, is that, with the age difference, it is NEVER 'willing' participation.

there are so many things that influence a child. respect for an older sibling, being the little one that has been told my mom to obey. y'no?? it is confusing. and kid's don't have many tools. and older siblings, i know, can be threatening in many non verbal ways. and for me, and possibly for you, i didn't have anyone safe that i could tell. my parents couldn't talk to me. they couldn't handle us pulling each others hair, so this, i knew, was off limits.

another thing that t's have tried to reassure me, and i am still not able to process or open my mind to, but...pa said, that the body responds to touch, and that THAT can't be helped. and if the body is stimulated in certain ways, pleasure WILL happen. and that pleasure IS confusing...yet, pleasurable...and it is all just such a swarm of stuff, that a kid can't figure out what to do....like you can now, as an adult.

maybe that thought above is what your t was moving towards.

i can't go there yet, myself. i can't even open myself up to consider it yet. so, be easy on yourself.

please share. it helps, and people on here really know alot.

so, just know a child makes decisions in childish ways, so don't try to put an adult mind on you as a child, ok??

and ten years difference?? and a brother???

honey, it wasn't your fault. despite what you look at now as what you shoulda done. ok?

i wish i could help. xxoo jill

((((Incognito)))))

I think it is possible you didn't feel scared or worried about being forced because you may have been disassociating at the time. You may not have even really understood what was happening.

For what it is worth, I was repeatedly abused by my older cousin and I didn't really do much to stop it. I had been abused by a neighbor years before and when my cousin started abusing me, I just sort of shut down and disassociated. For years I thought that must mean that I wanted it on some level. In fact, I believed that I must have wanted it until just now when I read your post. Sometimes it is so much easier to see things clearly when you are reading about someone else. We tend to be so hard on ourselves. We forget that we were ever children. We forget that we didn't always have a voice.

(((Incognito)))

I'm so sorry that you had such a hard session and you feel the need to run from your T.

Your T is right, there is NO yes. Period. So this particular time you managed to get out of it, that doesn't mean that the times you weren't able to equated to yes. I'm so sorry that happened to you. It was not your fault.

It sounds like talking about the memory has you really activated. I know it feels like you need to run from your T, but is it possible that the flight feelings are about the memory and not about how your T is handling you talking or not talking about it? I know that I've felt that way before when talking about memories and it is so hard.

Could you go to your T and explain that you need to talk about this, but you need help breaking it into smaller pieces or pacing the work so you don't get overwhelmed?

I'm so sorry that it is so hard and you feel alone. I understand how hard it is to live with the memories, the feelings, the knowledge. It is a really tough spot to be in, but you don't have to be alone. I am here listening to your story and feeling very honored that you felt safe enough to share it here. Please be gentle with yourself, it's hard stuff.

**Triggers


I feel your pain so much, Incognito. This is kinda hard for me to say because it’s so soo deeply personal, but I’ll go ahead and share. My favorite, most cherished thing that my T has ever said to me was, “Your body reacted in the exact way that it was made to react, and just because you had a natural bodily reaction, does NOT mean you enjoyed it.” I can picture exactly how I was laying on the couch and how my T looked as he said those words. During my sexual assaults, I didn’t do anything to stop it, except try to push them off a little, but I didn’t scream, didn’t run, didn’t kick, didn’t put up a fight at all. I just laid there while my body reacted and seemed to enjoy it. Because of that I lived with an intense and debilitating shame. It took me about 2 months to fully believe it, but now I am so incredibly grateful for those words, because those words, along with writing and reading and lots of talking, is what freed me from the shame.

I understand feeling irritated by your T’s comment. Your T might have asked you that because he recognized the dynamic of the little sister wanting to make her big brother happy, in a way that was purely innocent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I also want to say that you don’t need to rush, or force yourself to tell your T anything that you don’t want to. You have time. Your T is right when he said that there is no “yes”, but please don’t feel bad or be hard on yourself if you don’t believe him right now. Healing is a process, and right now you are exactly where you are supposed to be. From what you just said I know for a fact that none of this was your fault. I know from my own experience though, that I could say those words over and over and over again, but it won’t matter until you are ready, and that takes time. Take care, Incognito.

Incognito,
I want to join the chorus. You were not responsible. I am sorry, I know the shame can absolutely eat you alive but it's undeserved.

Once I was struggling (such a weak word) with being ashamed, because I realized that during a flashback, as horrible as I was feeling, I was also feeling aroused. I told my T about it, while staring at a spot on the carpet, and he told me the same thing Mac's T told her. That the body has physiological responses that are hardwired. If you are touched certain ways in certain places, it's going to be pleasureable. He went on to tell me that whenever a caretaker and a child are involved (and I firmly believe that includes a brother 10 years older than you) it is ALWAYS, no exceptions, the caretakers responsiblity. A child is too eager to please and does not yet have a sense of what is appropriate to stave off a determined adult. It's abuse plain and simple, whether or not it was physically forced, it's emotionally coerced.

One of my worst memories, that took me most of the time I worked with my T to get to, had to do with "wanting" the abuse. I think you probably know that my T was first my husband's T, then our marital counselor. When I first brought up seeing him alone after my first T retired, both him and my husband were not comfortable with the idea and I backed off. Later on, it worked out after some things changed that I was seeing him individually but I always, always felt guilty about that. No matter how much my husband and my T assured me that it was ok, I still didn't feel like it was on a very deep level. One week, I had an 8:30 session on Monday morning and we had a couples' session scheduled for Tuesday evening at 5:30. My husband found out on Monday night he had to work late on Tuesday and it was probably early enough that I could have canceled, but he told me to go ahead and go and I must admit, I loved the idea of seeing my T again the next day.

I went but I came through the door, as my T told me later in the session, very differently than I usually do and launched into a bunch of stuff about the kids. I was talking pretty rapidly, without any pauses which is never a good sign with me. My T very gently interrupted me and said I seemed a little agitated, what was going on? I stopped and said "you're right, I'm not sure." I had made a joke (I should have known better by then!) early on about feeling guilty about coming twice in one week. So my T brought it up and said why don't we talk about that. It got really intense. As he started asking me questions, we followed my feelings until I remembered that I hadn't wanted my mother to discover the abuse by my dad, because it was the only time I got any semblance of affection from my dad. On the other hand, my father always threatened me by telling me if my mother knew, then she wouldn't love me anymore. So I knew I was keeping something bad from her, so I must be doing something bad. I finally connected that the guilt I had been having so long over seeing my T was because of the belief from that time in my life, that if I was getting my needs met, I MUST be doing something wrong. It was one of the few times my session ran over because I just couldn't calm down enough to be ok leaving. It took me days, including at least two phone calls and one email to my therapist to get through the horrible shame. Our next session, I remember talking to him about how it felt and he talked about how strong the will to live is. And I told him "there are worse things than death." He looked at me and said that's a very advanced adult thought and a child would never think that. That of course I wanted love and care and affection, we're built that way, and as children we need those things to live. That I hadn't done anything wrong, my father had.

I understand that now. One of the things that helped for me was to think about my children at the age I was in the memory and thinking about how they could have stopped what my father was doing to me. And I realized they couldn't have. And if the abuse starts at a very young age, even when you're older and would seemingly have other options, you are too indoctrinated.

And please do not say you are sorry for speaking of this. This is a safe place to do so, and you need to speak about it, so you can hear what you are hearing. It was not your fault.

AG

Thanks Mac, STRM, LG,and jill

Thanks for sharing your own painful experiences. I'm sorry for what you suffered. It is impossible to blame someone else for what happened so I just have to try and stop blaming myself.

jill, I couldn't tell my parents anything when I was a child. They weren't interested in what I felt or thought just in what I did and if I fit into their vision of their child. I finally told them when I was 15 and completely messed up by puberty and one of my abusers coming and living in our house. They didn't respond and never mentioned it again. They didn't call me a liar but never mentioned it.

LG, I was also abused by more than one person, my brother and my older cousin. My cousin is the one who moved back into our house when I was 15 and told me that I started it when I was a child. He also told me he loved me and couldn't form a relationship with a women his own age because of me. I was smart enough to keep my distance without creating a problem for my family but 6 months later I told my parents. Not that it helped.

STRM, I think you might be right. I've worked so hard on trusting my T and talking out some many issues I've had with does he care, can I contact him, will he support me, will I be too much for him it is so maddening that I still couldn't talk to him about this. I want to talk to him and then when I get there I freeze up and just cry. I say just enough that he gets the idea but I never feel like he really understands. Of course he might understand but I just keep thinking if he really understood he would know how bad I was and reject me so maybe he understands it all and I just can't accept his understanding.

Mac, I don't remember physically enjoying it but this memory really upset me. I'm frustrated because I've been trying to deal with this for 3 years and I just can't seem to get past it. I get close to it and then I close up and run away from the issue. I feel so stuck and so damaged like I should have been able to work through this by now.

I'm going to try and get some sleep now. Thank you for listening and sharing. I don't feel alone now.

Di

AG, We cross-posted. Thank you for sharing now when I now you are gearing up mentally and emotionally for your session tomorrow. I hope your session goes well. You have been an inspiration to me since I joined the board. I just feel stuck with the shame and no matter how hard I've worked to trust my T when we start talking about something like this I can't talk and I am worried about his reaction, my pain, my memory and what it means about me. I'm a huge ball of emotions and no way to express them. It has been 8 hours since my session and I'm still so activated. I am hoping I can get some sleep.

Incognito, I hope you are sleeping now and getting some rest from this hellish day. I admit this is a triggery subject for me and I'm not as open as the others but I did want to add that NONE of this could possibly be your fault and you were a child and the adult in this situation is ALWAYS wrong and at fault.

I'm sorry this has been so hard for you to talk to your T about and I think you are quite brave and inspirational to try to tackle this. From your posts it sounds to me like you have a good, knowledgeable and insightful T and that you are safe with him. Don't rush yourself into dealing with this... there is no time limit in working through CSA. When it's time it will happen. Take some deep breaths and be kind to yourself. You did very good and hard work today. You should really be proud of yourself.

Many hugs
TN

((((DF))))) You did everything you could to try and protect that three year old girl. And of course you didn't speak up, I would bet a whole lot of money there was no one to listen. You didn't abuse her, her father did. There is light at the end of the tunnel, but it takes a lot of experience of acceptance and love and understanding to clear out the amount of shame we carry. That's why it's important to speak of the shame as often as we are capable, and as often as necessary, so that we can hear that we are innocent and that the shame is undeserved enough times to finally believe.

And DF, can I say I'm sorry? I've been reading your thread about shame, but haven't been in a place to respond, I'm sorry to not have been more supportive.

Incognito,
I hear your frustration about the time, both how long you've been trying to get to this and how long you've been upset after a session but neither sound excessive to me. This is really deep painful stuff and it takes time to deal with it. The part DF mentioned about what I said, thinking about someone else? Read your post and see what you would think if another member had posted it. Would you be thinking "how could they still be upset 8 hours later?" As foreign as the thought might be, you deserve the same care and compassion you extend to others.

AG

PS Thank you for telling me I was an inspiration, that's very moving for me to hear. But know that you display the same courage that you see in me.

I just wanted to add a thank you here to everyone who shared their stories. I think you are all so courageous and a truly amazing group of people that I am honored to know and to call my friends.

Safe group hug,
TN

Incognito- you are very brave to share your story.
I want to echo what TN said.

I too am honored to have you and so many others know my struggle as well. I draw strength from knowing I am not alone. CSA is so hard to get a handle on because of so many unprocessed mixed messages.

Thank you for mentioning "Triggering" and your story does bring back the confusion, but it is gentler than it had been. (Not derailing)

In my case- I was very young and the abuser was loving and caring for me, and of me- which makes it utterly confusing. When you are with someone you trust (big brother- as in your case) The child's desire is to please. When the older trusted person takes advantage- we (I) thought that person knew what was best for me. My shame came out as me referring to "the little girl" as the stupid, stupid, stupid child. This was hard to work through and even though I have done most of the work, the pain still lurks underneath, robbing me of safety. When I think back to my T's messages to me ( and really believe them) that is when I start to heal again. I had to forgive the little girl. Not for doing anything wrong, but for being so young, as that is what she (I) was, like you, like many of us. We were- young and sweet and loving and trusting and INNOCENT.
Sleep Incognito, know that you are not alone, and that you are understood here.

Your message (and others) bring tears to my eyes once again, but believe and rest in the kowledge of your innocense. Someday that knowledge will move to your heart and fill your being. That is when the healing begins.
Peace my dear friend.

I can't really reply as I would like to, it's too difficult for me...but I want to say thank you for all you who have shared, your stories are so moving and so very sad, and yet inspirational for me, who's default is that it was always my fault. Reading your stories I KNOW in my head and my heart it was none of your faults, you are all so brave and so amazing, maybe I can learn to realise the same lack of fault for myself in time? Hugs to you all, thank you

starfish

I am deeply moved by these posts and I would like to send out my support especially to you incognito for posting but also to all the others who posted here.

I find I have to slow right down when dealing with the abuse issues, as I am the one who has to carry the turmoil of feelings between sessions and that is how I take care of myself.
It is horrible how once we peel a layer off, by talking/disclosing about it, a whole tidal wave of emotions rides in and it is very difficult to live with. So I sympathize. It makes it easier if you can seek reassurance from your T about your current agony of feelings, he can reassure you quite quickly whereas you might live in their torment for days on your own.

We are so hurt and so brave and so ashamed and so courageous, it is very inspiring what we handle and what we disclose and how we keep going.

No abuse stuff is easy. It is layered with confusing mixed up feelings, and I am so glad that good T's know the hell we go through as we try to speak of what has been the unspeakable.

I am cheering you on incognito.

Starfish-
My prayer to you and to all is that yes, you will realize this, and you will heal.

"maybe I can learn to realise the same lack of fault for myself in time?"

My main reason for distancing myself from T has nothing what-so- ever to do with him, he is the same lovely T., but I am seeking healing from a more powerful source. I beseech my God through prayer and meditation to heal me. I think my T has taken me as far as he can, and he always said that my spirituality is my greatest resource. So the rest (for me) is up to my God and me. I am putting my faith and trust in HIM first and T second. It is comforting to know that T is there for me- just a phone call away.
Incognito and everyone- Yes- this is so hard, and so painful, and NONE of this is our doing, or was ever in our control. Thank you for bearing your truths. For me, by hearing and sharing, (which truly is cyber love for all of you that know this deep pain) and by forgiving, and by my faith, I will be healed. I am hanging on to that.

Incognito, Starfish, AG, Jill, Lady Grey, Strms, Mac, DF, TN Sadly, and Draggers-(whereever you are)

IT IS NOT OUR FAULT!!!!!!!

Believe that- no matter what. Rest in that truth.

I will come out of the woodwork to say each and everyone of you who are brave enough to share your stories are truly special people. May the Light shine upon what has been hidden in the darkness and healing come forth.

AMEN to that.

Thanks for all the support.

I managed to sleep okay last night but I called my T and then was absolutely silent for 5 minutes making him late for his next session. I was so surprised he answered the phone because I had left him a message and I assumed he wasn't in yet because he hadn't got back to me. I think I spent the first minute just being surprised he hadn't called me if he was in his office but I didn't want to say that. I hate when everything I do is wrong.

Mayo - thank you for your care and encouragement, that means a lot. Do you know, I really do know that it wasn't my fault (well the adult in me does anyway ) but I just don't FEEL that it wasn't my fault, it feels totally mine....I guess that's the difference. My T will never agree to any of what I went through as being my fault...and believe her I have tried so hard to convince her , I have told her that she only says so because: she has to, because it's her job to, because she doesn't understand, because it wasn't her it happened to, because she didn't know me then, because she seems to refuse to see how bad I really was etc etc ....but she steadfastly won't budge an inch, patiently repeats and explains how it cannot be my fault. Yet when I read other stories here, I finally get some insight as to how she might feel, I read what others have so bravely written and feel so strongly for all who write so movingly...'Of course it wasn't your fault'.

Incognito, well done for reaching out to your T, no matter how awkward, I'm glad you were able to and that he answered the phone too - especially as you weren't expecting him too!

Hugs to you,

starfishy

But starfishy- It is not true.
I was 4 years old (abused to age 6 perhaps) logically it is not possible for it to be my fault, and yet I FEEL also, (the child feels) that it is my fault. So it is a lie. My feelings about this- my perception about this is wrong. I still feel it, but it is not truth. Am I making any sense?

(((starfishy)))

I read others stories here and I know and feel 100% that what happened to you and others here was not your fault! However, even though I know that what happened to me wasn't my fault, I also don't feel that it wasn't. The littles are always telling T that they feel like they are bad, icky, wrong etc. I think it just takes time to sort out. You are doing such hard work.

Mayo,

Thank you, you make perfect sense, that is the really hard thing. Like STRMS says there seems to be a big disconnect between knowing and feeling....between head and heart I guess. It is our perception that is skewed, but that can feel really powerful, especially when memories and child parts make you remember more then times than now. Maybe STRM is right, it is just time - for me just me saying to T that I know it wasn't my fault, even if it feels it still, is a huge step, for years I totally believed it was too.

When do you see T again incognito? How are you doing today? Thoughts still, ((incognito))

starfishy

(((((HUGS))))) to all of you brave people out there. Step by step, Incognito, and you will get there.

I am hanging on to the knowing - a leap of faith.

Yes- the feeling does not match yet- so I too think strm is right, it takes time.

I think I will call T today.

Hugs to all of you brave, brave ones.

I am booked to see my T later tonight. Right now we are in the middle of a snow storm which I hope lets up before my appointment. I think that I also know it isn't my fault but I feel like it is. I think Monday during my session my feelings were drowning out my thoughts. That happens a lot when I try to talk about it particularly with T. I think I am so afraid that the person I'm talking with is going to blame me I blame myself first. I also wonder how much it has to do with the way I react to my T as if he was an older brother (stupid transference). He is an older male I am trying to be close to but I'm always afraid of his judgement.

Thank you to everyone sharing their feelings and stories. It has helped me sort out my own.

Di

We just had a major snow- ice storm here as well.

I too fear judgement (in my head I know it is all me, though)from T. Interestingly enough, he says that he fears judgement from me too.

He even once said that my approval is important to him. Is that for real- or just good T lingo? I know not.

Have a great session and I hope you seek the peace you are searching for. Try to connect the 12-18 inches from head to heart- The message that- It is NOT ( and never was ) your fault.

I think my T is in Costa Rica. He never txt ed back and he usually does. Seeing him once a month- I don't have the same connection.