Hi All,

This is such a long story that I don’t want to write a novel trying to get all the details in here. I’ll try to be brief. I could sure use some feedback.

Basically, my best friend is a woman who I dated for a while a couple of years ago. We broke up after about 6 months, but in the wake of that we became incredibly close friends, especially after my breakdown last May. She has been there for me on my worst days, comforting me and soothing me when I feel wretched beyond words, and I’m there for her always. The relationship is intimately close without being sexual anymore, and this is often very hard for her since I was the one who ended the relationship. She wants us to be girlfriend and boyfriend. I feel like I just can’t handle it right now with all my stuff.

When she has days where she feels terrible that our relationship has these boundaries, I feel enormous guilt. On these days, I can see that she is heartbroken, and it tears me up. Aside from my T, she is the most important person in my life right now.

Last night while watching the Oscars, she became upset about the limited state of our relationship again and left feeling very upset. And last night, I had a dream where I violently defended her against a bunch of young men who seemed to want to harm her. I mean, really violently.

Then today, I went to her office for lunch and she apologized for getting upset last night. Just then, I felt an overwhelming wave of fear and despair, and I’m still feeling this now. I can’t even describe how awful it is, and the thing is, I don’t even know what it is exactly or where it’s coming from. It’s like a combination of horrible fear, heartbreak and anguish. It feels like I won’t be able to take it for another second. It’s truly awful, and it’s the same kind of feeling that I woke up with at 3am last May 15 that compelled me to go into therapy in the first place.

Obviously, something was seriously triggered in me by what she said, or how she said it. Something about her disappointment about our relationship, followed by her apology, set off something major in me. I’m sure there’s a connection to my mom in there somewhere, but right now I’m too messed up to think about it. I have some anti-anxiety meds that I will take and they will help, but I’m still feeling awful.

So my question is this: does anyone else here have (or had) similar, overwhelmingly awful attacks of symptoms and pain when they are triggered? Is this was being triggered feels like? If so, it’s God-awful. It totally feels like there’s a process going on that I’m completely unaware of, yet I’m feeling its horrible affects consciously.

Of course, this is the week where my T is away, so that’s not helping any either. I appreciate any feedback on this.

Thanks so much in advance.
Russ

Hi Russ,
I know this feels scary but you'll get through it. The first thing I want to tell you is that although what you're feeling absolutely feels like it is happening right now, it's not. You've already survived this. Its just that when we get triggered and remember a traumatic memory they come back differently because there stored differently. The most noticeable characteristic is that you it feels like its happening RIGHT NOW because it was never processed. So you need to keep reminding yourself that although this feels overwhelming this is just a memory and emotions that you've already been through. It can't harm you any further.

Secondly, pay attention to your breathing. I know it sounds silly but its really important. If you are getting triggered, its likely that you're system is in a state of high alert. There's a simple breathing exercise. Take in a deep breath, hold it for a count of three, then let it all out slowly. As you do, concentrate on how it feels to let the breathe out. This serves the dual purpose of slowing down your nervous system and anchoring you in the here and now. You can keep repeating that until you feel calmer.

Thirdly, when you have a chance, there's a way to handle this. Just sit and let the emotions come. Note what they are but don't feel like you have to understand or judge them. Just let them be what they are. Then journal about what you're observing. The act of writing them down often helps to calm me and it also provides a information to take to your T when he gets back.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this when he's away. Does he provide for any kind of contact? And keep posting here, we get it. You're not crazy, you're just dealing with some long buried stuff. I hope you can get some relief. But know that we really care about you and are here for you.

AG

Russ,

It sounds like you're going through some pretty intense emotions that don't seem like they have a "rational", identifiable source but that are really real. If so, I get this a lot, too, mostly with the fear/terror.

It's a really hard thing, but I find it helps if I can make connections with other people - folks who remind me where and who I am and what I'm able to do (abilities, safety, that sort of thing). Sometimes I tell them what's happening, sometimes I just listen and get involved in what they're doing/saying/thinking to calm myself down.

And, as always, what AG said.

Hi Russ,
From what you describe it sounds like something did trigger an early memory by means of a flashback in you. It doesn't have to be or mean anything horrendous, but what feels so horrible is the old emotions that come flooding over you like churning, tumultuous ,rapids washing you off yor feet and you can't make sense of why it is even happenng.

May I tell you of an event I had this last summer and you tell me if this sounds similar:

I was relaxing outside after doing some gardening and I sat back in my lounge chair to enjoy the view and the warmth of the sun. For no apparent reason I started thinking about my family, about one particular brother who my parents signed papers for to join the Vietnam war and I thought, "What were they thinking? He was only 17 and this was the Vietnam war..." Anyway long story short I was immediately grief stricken that my parents allowed that and I started spiraling hard and began to panic. I went inside the house where I collapsed because I could no longer hold my body up under this tremendous emotional pain and I found myself on my hands and knees sobbing and crying like a baby. I couldn't get anywhere except by crawling on my hands and knees. I became extremely cold and shaking uncontrollably and I felt like I was transported back in time to when I was an infant. I could see vague images and people and noise around me. I could see the hardwood floors from my first childhood home and I remember feeling so cold and alone and needing help but I could not ask for it and all I could do was cry.

Now I spiraled into quite a dramatic flashback, but it doesn't have to be that dramatic to feel traumatic, and from what you describe Russ, I wonder if that is what is happening to you. The anxiety you experienced is definitely old, perhaps feelings of grief and abandonment, which may include fear, heartbreak and anguish and cause you much anxiety today.

So I think yes, you were triggered by something. A word, a look, a smell, a feeling. It could be anything and very indistinct at the time. Your T will probably have you follow that feeling or trigger as far back as your mind can flow and see if anything comes up.

For me I knew this was an infant body memory that I had of not being cared for when I was tired, hungry and cold. When I was working through this in therapy my stomach was growling and my body temperature was low and I was shivering just as I was back then. My T believes that we honor those memories no matter how they come up and when they fit together with what we know, well it's easier to put enough of the pieces together.

I hope this helps. I wasn't trying to steal away from your experience, I was just illustrationg where I was coming from.

Not to mention you may be feeling slightly abandoned by your t right now too. Though you know you'renot, you may feel it because of your unresolved childhood issues. It would make sense I think.

How many more days before you see your T Russ? Keep counting them because while they seem long now, they do get shorter and they reinforce that he will return and he has not abandoned you physically or emotionally. Did he say he could accept phone calls?
We'll get through this!
JM

Hey Russ- I want to second the support and advice of everyone else here. You can get through this and we are here to help you. (((RUSS)))

I also want to make a suggestion of a commonality I see here. In another of your posts, you mentioned being very aware of your mother's lack of connection, noting that it "didn't feel right" with her. But you also were very compassionate towards her because it was obvious to you how hard she was trying to connect. I see great similarity here with your relationship with this woman. She is trying very hard, but for some reason, it isn't right for you. You feel deep compassion for her and, perhaps, internally you wish you could MAKE it feel right like you wish you could have done with your mother.

I don't know how accurate that is or is not as it's a shot in the dark. But I hope you do find some relief and grounding today. When I had a flashback-like experience, my T said to make sure I did something physical to differentiate between now and then (eat something, exercise, do a puzzle); anything to make the two experiences different. Don't ignore the problem- allow yourself to feel- but make sure you physically recognize the difference between now and then.

Keep posting!

-CT

quote:

So my question is this: does anyone else here have (or had) similar, overwhelmingly awful attacks of symptoms and pain when they are triggered? Is this was being triggered feels like? If so, it’s God-awful. It totally feels like there’s a process going on that I’m completely unaware of, yet I’m feeling its horrible affects consciously

My heart goes out to you Russ. I have experienced similiar reactions as you describe here and also been unaware of where they are coming from. I liken it to being a field with snipers all around waiting to shoot you but you can't see where they are or what they are doing.

Anyway I am glad you have some medication to help and sorry your T is gone. (Isn't that the way it always goes?)

I was trying to think of what may help. Would it trigger you more to journal about it? Maybe write it all down so you can share it with your T when he comes back? Also my T showed me something that helps me. I was taught to look around and see that even though I feel terrified nothing in the present moment is hurting me. I am safe right now in this moment. SO what I do is look around the room and see that nothing awful is going on right now. I know it's so simple but this helps me slow my heart down and breathe more easily sometimes.

Also if you heart is pounding it sometimes helps to talk to your heart. Again this sounds weird but it helps me to say soothing things to my pounding heart.

I will keep you in my thoughts today Russ.

Everyone,

You guys are the best. Just the friggin' best. God bless all of you.

I am somewhat calmer now that the benzo has kicked in and I'm still at work (yeah, I love it when this stuff happens at the office.

I want to read all your posts a few times before I respond, and I'll do that after work.

Thanks so much again for saving my bacon...again. I'll be back in a little while. Just an initial read through of all your comments has made me feel better.

Russ

I am so sorry that you got hit so hard by this - especially with your T away. That kind of crap always happens to me at work too. I've never had flashbacks but I have had plenty of panic attacks. I hope you can get through the rest of your day OK.

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:

I know this feels scary but you'll get through it. The first thing I want to tell you is that although what you're feeling absolutely feels like it is happening right now, it's not. You've already survived this. Its just that when we get triggered and remember a traumatic memory they come back differently because there stored differently. The most noticeable characteristic is that you it feels like its happening RIGHT NOW because it was never processed. So you need to keep reminding yourself that although this feels overwhelming this is just a memory and emotions that you've already been through. It can't harm you any further.

Thanks so much, AG. I guess what I'm so confused about is that it doesn't feel like a memory. In fact, I'm not remembering anything at all in particular, and I didn't suffer from any kind of real overt abuse that I've repressed. Is that what you mean by traumatic memory? Maybe a traumatic memory of feelings from so early on that I can't actually remember feeling it then but am now feeling it? Sorry for so many questions, but it's so confusing to think about it as a flashback.

quote:

Originally posted by Wynne:
Russ,

It sounds like you're going through some pretty intense emotions that don't seem like they have a "rational", identifiable source but that are really real. If so, I get this a lot, too, mostly with the fear/terror.

Thanks, Wynne. It's always great to read feedback from you. Yeah, the fear/terror thing. Would you say that this is a kind of flashback for you? Or more of a response to something else? Sometimes I think it's so hard to describe the feeling becase it comes from a place that's impossible to describe (soul, heart, mind).

You are right, of course, that these emotions don't feel "rational" but they as hell are real.

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:
Now I spiraled into quite a dramatic flashback, but it doesn't have to be that dramatic to feel traumatic, and from what you describe Russ, I wonder if that is what is happening to you. The anxiety you experienced is definitely old, perhaps feelings of grief and abandonment, which may include fear, heartbreak and anguish and cause you much anxiety today.

JM, thank you so much for your story and your wonderful feedback. I've never thought of these episodes as flashbacks, and my T has never described them as such either, so it's a new idea for me. If they are flashbacks, then they don't come with any memory whatsoever, just the god-awful feeling...including the sprialing panic that you describe in your post. But there's no aspect of memory at all...I just feel terrible and scared to death. But you're right about the anxiety being old, very old, and possibly based on feelings of grief and abandonment. If this is the case, and I was triggered into these feelings today, I'm guessing that would constitute a kind of flashback...a flashback to the feelings (as opposed to a specific event)...or maybe even feelings that were repressed back then and only coming out now?

quote:

Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
I also want to make a suggestion of a commonality I see here. In another of your posts, you mentioned being very aware of your mother's lack of connection, noting that it "didn't feel right" with her. But you also were very compassionate towards her because it was obvious to you how hard she was trying to connect. I see great similarity here with your relationship with this woman. She is trying very hard, but for some reason, it isn't right for you. You feel deep compassion for her and, perhaps, internally you wish you could MAKE it feel right like you wish you could have done with your mother.

I don't know how accurate that is or is not as it's a shot in the dark.
-CT

CT, that is a VERY accurate description of my relationship with my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by Jo:
Also if you heart is pounding it sometimes helps to talk to your heart. Again this sounds weird but it helps me to say soothing things to my pounding heart.

I will keep you in my thoughts today Russ.

Thanks, Jo. I don't have the usual panic and pounding heart stuff. I wish I could describe it better, but it's so hard. It's like an oppressive fear combined with what I can only describe as intense despair.

Thanks everyone for getting back to me on this, and for getting back to me so fast. Today just sucked, and it makes me wonder, yet again, when the hell I'm going to turn the corner on this thing and get a handle on it. It's so hard and it's pure hell, but you all make it less so by being here for me. You all have my deepest graditude. Thanks so much.

Russ

quote:

Originally posted by Russ:

quote:

Originally posted by Wynne:
Russ,

It sounds like you're going through some pretty intense emotions that don't seem like they have a "rational", identifiable source but that are really real. If so, I get this a lot, too, mostly with the fear/terror.

Thanks, Wynne. It's always great to read feedback from you. Yeah, the fear/terror thing. Would you say that this is a kind of flashback for you? Or more of a response to something else? Sometimes I think it's so hard to describe the feeling becase it comes from a place that's impossible to describe (soul, heart, mind).
Russ

Flashbacks? I'm not at a point where I'm thinking I have those. But generally they're because something that happened or that I saw in the world was very much like something that happened that was Really Bad back in the day. I get a bit confused about the time, I suppose. Sometimes I just sit there for up to an hour, kinda paralyzed with the scared? Thinking silly things like, that they're going to find me, or something.

I've gotten to where I notice when my reaction to what's happening around me and what's happening around me don't match up, and I'm getting a bit better at not letting things last quite so long. ...I also haven't worked up the gumption to talk about this with CalmT yet, so I'm a little at-sea about how I should actually go about it all.

For what it's worth.

quote:

Is that what you mean by traumatic memory? Maybe a traumatic memory of feelings from so early on that I can't actually remember feeling it then but am now feeling it? Sorry for so many questions, but it's so confusing to think about it as a flashback.

Russ,
There's two different and possibly overlapping explanations. What you're experiencing may be from time before you learned to speak and use symbols so it comes back as impressions and feelings because that's all you had to work with and store. The other possibility is that its a traumatic memory. A traumatic memory is be definition an event that overwhelmed our ability to process it.

Under normal circumstances, when something happens to us, we process it and our hippocampus actually sorts through the sights, sounds, feelings and catalogs it so to speak, then it gets stored as a memory. This is the kind of memory you would invoke if I asked you what you had for lunch yesterday. You might have an image of where you were, remember what you were eating, and what it tasted like, who you were with, etc etc. But you wouldn't feel like you were there or it was happening right now. It would clearly be something you were recalling from your past.

When trauma occurs the brain is in such a state of activation and so completely concentrated on making sure you survive the danger, that your hippocampus goes "offline." So it doesn't get processed at all; the raw facts are stored without processing and actually in another location in your brain. Without that processing you pretty much get whatever went in. Its not unusual for a person who dissassociated to not have sight or sound attached to these memories. Sometimes its feelings, sometimes bodily sensations. They're really confusing because they don't feel like a memory, as you said, and I totally relate, they're not attached to anything. Part of healing is to experience these and with the help of your T sort through them and make sense of them so that you can convert them to a normal memory so that the immediacy is gone.

You have to keep reminding yourself that although it feels like you're in danger, you're really safe in the here and now. These are very strong, almost overwhelming emotions, but they're emotions, which come and go while you remain. And sometimes our emotions are an accurate reflection of reality and sometimes they're not. People with a background of trauma often get "embedded" in their emotions, taking how they're feeling as exactly what's going on, but that's not always true. We can feel threatened when there is no threat.

I know you feel like you're in hell, but this pain is part of the healing. You will get through to the other side, it won't always feel like this. And to quote Winston Churchill "if you're going through hell, keep going."

AG

quote:

Originally posted by Wynne:
Sometimes I just sit there for up to an hour, kinda paralyzed with the scared? Thinking silly things like, that they're going to find me, or something.

For what it's worth.

"The scared." I love it. Thanks, Wynne. Your sense of humor is right in line with mine. I think I'll refer to mine simply as "the awful."

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:

They're really confusing because they don't feel like a memory, as you said, and I totally relate, they're not attached to anything. Part of healing is to experience these and with the help of your T sort through them and make sense of them so that you can convert them to a normal memory so that the immediacy is gone.

Exactly!! It doesn't feel like a memory at all. I walk into her office, she looks at me and says, "I'm sorry I was short with you last night" and WHAM, it hits me like a ton of bricks. But, now that I think about it, the look on her face, the apology in her eyes, her sadness...it reminds me of something. I don't know what, but something. Something that feels like someone stabbing me in the heart. I think CT is right...it's a vague but profound memory of my mother.

Man, AG, converting this stuff to a normal memory and sucking the awfulness out of them sounds so good. My god, how I want to do that right now. How I want to go through each memory like a computer program reading a folder of files and do that.

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:

I know you feel like you're in hell, but this pain is part of the healing. You will get through to the other side, it won't always feel like this. And to quote Winston Churchill "if you're going through hell, keep going."

AG

AG, you totally rock. Seriously. Like rock really hard. Your remark about healing and the Churchill quote made me smile for the first time today. Thanks so much.

Russ

quote:

Obviously, something was seriously triggered in me by what she said, or how she said it. Something about her disappointment about our relationship, followed by her apology, set off something major in me. I’m sure there’s a connection to my mom in there somewhere
Russ

Russ...I had a bit of a different take on what you said here...so I'll just toss it out for consideration.
I do agree that you have hit a trigger. What I am wondering about is this. Do you think that you have possibly had a projection/transference/counter transference reaction?

You are currently dealing with the fact that your T is unavailable to you. And yet...your friend has made herself available to you...even beyond the boundaries you have set. You expressed that she was upset by the limited state of your relationship...and that you feel enormous guilt about that. You were triggered by her apology (and/or not being able to meet her needs while she is offering to meet ALL your needs.)
There seem to be components of guilt, caretaking and need to your post. And I wonder if it has anything to do with your T being unavailable to you.

Anyway...just a thought, I'm a bit unsure if it has any validity so I'm not pushing it. It was just something that occurred to me.

SD

quote:

Originally posted by soulfuldaze:
Russ...I had a bit of a different take on what you said here...so I'll just toss it out for consideration.
I do agree that you have hit a trigger. What I am wondering about is this. Do you think that you have possibly had a projection/transference/counter transference reaction?

You are currently dealing with the fact that your T is unavailable to you. And yet...your friend has made herself available to you...even beyond the boundaries you have set. You expressed that she was upset by the limited state of your relationship...and that you feel enormous guilt about that. You were triggered by her apology (and/or not being able to meet her needs while she is offering to meet ALL your needs.)
There seem to be components of guilt, caretaking and need to your post. And I wonder if it has anything to do with your T being unavailable to you.

Anyway...just a thought, I'm a bit unsure if it has any validity so I'm not pushing it. It was just something that occurred to me.

SD

SD,

Thanks for your reply. I think the fact that I don't have access to my T this week is certainly at play. After all, how can it not?

I'm not sure I follow you on what I might have been projecting, transferring and/or counter transferring. Then again, I'm not thinking all that clearly today. But there's no question that guilt is in there in a big way. Guilt is one of those feelings that I've felt many times before but have never really understood the real meaning of.

Thanks,
Russ

LOL...Russ

I'm not sure I follow me either. *groan* I have always struggled with the transference aspects of therapy. I don't relate to it very well because it seems like a transference is the least of my troubles in therapy. My T loves to work it...but it is not very effective for me as I tend to project and transfer internally. She would love it if I would externalize these processes...but I just don't seem to work that way. She actually told me that I HAD to abuse her. LOL... I called her a weirdo...refused and told her that just being with me was abuse enough.

Anyway...as I see it... With your T unavailable, could you be feeling a need that you wish your friend could fulfill and transferring that need to her? Your friend may misinterpret that need and try to fulfill it in the way that she thinks she can. That would be the counter transference.
You feel guilty about needing something your friend cannot provide...and may project that...your friend in turn feels it and apologizes for being upset with you. What she may be feeling is that she was inadequate to meet your needs at the time. Which in turn makes you feel more guilty for needing something you know only your T can provide you with. This may also be compounded by your guilt about not being able to meet the needs of your friend. You know she is hurting and wishing that you would remove the boundaries you have set.

Your T's absence is a boundary that you wish was not there...so your friend triggers that feeling because it resonates (strikes a harmonic chord) with the boundaries you have set with her.

This is a very simplistic (in it's convoluted way... ) explanation of where I was going with my post. I may be WAY off base, because my understanding of these dynamics is limited. I think AG may be better suited to address this. HEEELLLLPPP AG? What the frak am I saying?

SD