Wanting more from your T is a very understandable and ctually a healthy thing. It means you are forming an attachment that you need and didn't aquire as a child (perhaps?). I don't see anything wrong with 'googling' a T... it's a way of getting 'true' information on them (imho).

Antoni

I can't help but to laugh a little here. Hugs! In a good way!!

I don't see anything wrong with googling, etc either... but maybe cause I do it too!! The way I see it is that if THEY put it out there and allowed it.... its on them.. not me. LOL. It is the FIRST thing I do with the therapist I have had is search engine.... and anyone else actually that I know or plan to work with in any way... potential jobs and so on.

In fact, there are several psych topics focusing on this towards students, interns, professionals about deciding how much you have online because it might be/can be used when others make decisions about hiring, acceptance into programs and such so it's always best to decide just how much you feel comfortable with potential clients, friends, bosses knowing. I know that overall, like with my facebook, I am careful about what I write. I tryu and write things I wouldnt care if others knew. I also google myself to see what comes up. I have found articles I have written, my researhc project and once that I was a member of a obesity community which I DIDNT want people to know so I wrote them a letter and asked them to take me OFF of their list so thjat this did not show up and now it doesnt... lol.

Anyways, I think with Adrine for instance, I told her that I researched her, her school which I knew some about anyways, her research and than also happend to find her wedding story which is online an d some of the marathons she has ran. She didnt have a problem with it and again, it's out there... so.. it's up to the person to decide if they don't care or not.

I know with Holly, early on, I found an article of some award she got, a nice picture of her and her research. IT was REALLY good. But latter it dissapeared off of the web so I have a feeling she didnt want that out there for everyone. I incidently had rwad it and it was cool to me cause I found out she focused in behavioral medicine which is a field I love but I can also see why some things, you just don't want it in the wrong persons hands.. some clients are kinda... posessive, stalkish types sooo.. lol...

Anyways, wanting to have a closer relationship with your therapist, as AG said is perfectly normal. It is healthy in many cases and means you have greater trust and attachment. (AG's favorite word.. lol). It's really good that you talked about it and btw boundaries are tricky. THey aren't black and white. There's a lto of grey. It really varries on one's theories of practice, person ethics, the client and so on.

For instance, when I was at the university, the hterapists there are very involved in the campus community so its HIGHLY likely thjat if you are an active student, you will be exposed to your therapist outside of the 'room'. lol. I remember I was working at this event at my college and ended up in the same work tent as my therapist. I was so shocked because I was a new student at the time and didnt know about these things. It happened a lot more during my time in the Uni. I also ended up working as a peer counselor so I ran into her A LOT and it was fine. We still keep in touch and she is now at a different Universityh as the director of their counseling center. We had dinner before she moved away and it was wonderful. She is very much into the cultural competency zone and has even written an article about boundaries, ethics and clients that it's not necessarily always wrong to know a client outside of therapy and in some cases.. feminist therapist also feel this way.. it can be for some clients something that can assist greatly with trust especialy in communities that work together not as individuals or ones that have a lot of mistrust because oif historical discrimination. So learning other ways to establish theraputic alliance might be outside the norm which is really part of hegemony... the whole... never see a client outside of therapy blah blah blah is something set fourth by one culture... it's not someting that necessarily is good for everyone but its taking time for some psychologists to challenge these assumptoions.

Anyways, long story short... everythin g you have said is gtreat, normal, healthy and its good you are talking to the T about it.

You guys are awesome! Thank you for the replies, you've helped me feel a lot more normal and a lot less guilty. Its funny BW, my T actually said that his son and daughter-in-law had put the blog about his granddaughter on the web knowing that people could read it, so he's pretty aware of issue. I am glad I talked to him though because I've continued to do a whole lot of processing since the session and had a bit of breakthrough once my unconscious surfaced I'm actually looking forward to my next session, which is not always the case LOL so I can talk to him about it. Thanks again, its amazing how much it helps to have someone understand.

it's always amazing to me as social beings or how we know we are social beings because of our need to connect and feel understood as well as our consistent concern that we're abnormal.. lol

Hmm wonder how he feels about his relatives and the blog? LOL. I wouldnt like that very much but family!! LOL.

I'm glad that this has opened things up more so thats very good!

Hugs

Hi AG

I know this is an old post of yours BUT I could so easily have written that post myself today. It just appears that your therapy journey is almost 2 years ahead of mine.

quote:

So, no one is doing anything wrong, I'm just having a difficult time accepting the limitations.

My T said to me yesterday that sometimes it's like I'm a two year old having a tantrum when I can't get exactly what I want (ie: wanting more of my T than is reasonable given the boundaries) and that young children struggle with limitations. So right now I hate limitations!

Thanks for typing such great posts AG so I can just write "yep that's me, that's where I'm at"!

Cheers!
I'm OK

I'm feeling very much like a 2-yr-old myself but can't seem to help it. I identify right now with what AG wrote long ago, except for the part about understanding WHY the boundaries are necessary. Yes, I've read "In Session" before, which is supposed to explain this, but there's no reasoning with a 2-yr-old! I am good at coming up with all sorts of justifications to get rid of a few boundaries. In my case, there has never been any erotic transference (it helps being in a hetersexual female-female dyad). I also don't feel a need to be equals with her. I just want to adopt her as my 2nd mom. Isn't that what everyone deserves? How can that be anti-therapeutic? But if someone knows the answer, I'm really not ready to hear it just yet. I'm still tantruming. I would be interested, however, in tips to help break down my T's fences. How can I tug at her heartstrings a little more? Anyone have some success stories with that?

Ah MH, I know you're hurting here, but thank you for the smile. It's a good one for me today, but sadly I can't help ya. I tried last week to stretch the boundaries just a touch by ever, ever, ever so sweetly asking in an email if I could please send a letter by email attachment (my T's practice has a clear no-contact-out-of-session policy) and the answer, received IN session today was - No. If I have something I want to give her, it's got to be in session.

Maybe I should have put a cherry on top?

Hi Everyone...
Well, I can't say I'm struggling with the boundaries...
For the moment I don't know where they are, I don't dare to go anywhere near them. I don't dare to ask for anything above what I'm getting now... I did text my T once (only after asking if it is alright) and I don't dare to do this again. What could I say?
I was hoping he would be able to meet me this week, after cancelling Monday's appointment, but he didn't get back with anything. And I don't want to bother him with asking. It's end of the week anyway...
sigh...

Hi Amazon

I'm sorry this week has been so rough. When is your next appointment to see your T?

I'm OK

Hi Madhatter,
I do have an answer about your questions about the boundaries, and why they're necessary and why your T can't be your mom, but I did notice you said you weren't ready to hear them.

If and when you want to discuss it further, let me know. And in the meantime, just know that I completely understand how you're feeling. I remember talking with my T and telling him that I wanted any relationship I could get with him, daughter, wife, niece, sister, anything just so I could belong to him. Your desire to move beyond the boundaries, to want something more from your T are very understandable. Even if you can't have it, it's important that you can express you're feelings and have them heard.

Hi I'm OK,
You're on the right track. It has been my struggle, time and again, with the boundaries and limitations of the theraputic relationship, that led to so much of my healing. How I felt about those boundaries led me to understand so much about myself and how I "do" relationships. I'd like to tell you that in two year you'll be completely over this but I must admit that at times I still struggle with it. Even now that I've decided to leave, it is difficult to completely accept that I can't have more. But it is better than it was so there's hope!

AG

Hi AG

quote:

I'd like to tell you that in two years you'll be completely over this but I must admit that at times I still struggle with it.

Well I have hope b/c there was an old post of yours where you and another myshrink member were implying that you might need another 100 plus years of therapy - so I can only assume you took a crash course and survived!!!

I'm OK

Jones, I think some boundaries are harder to accept because they are not the same across the board for every T and client. Your T apparently shuns all extra contact, while other T's allow weekly phone calls and emails. One T allows frequent hugs while another refuses to even shake hands. With such arbitrary differences, how are we to trust that our particular T's rules are best?

AG, thank you for withholding your answer until I let you know I am ready. One day I may come knocking. For now, I am working on expressing my frustrations about boundaries to my T. I think I did a halfway decent job of that yesterday in my session. I came away more accepting and understanding of her limits in our relationship, but maybe not for the same reasons you would tell me. If a dual relationship would threaten my T's career - regardless of how stupid and unforgiving she or I believe some of the regulations are - then I must try harder to be satisfied with less; I don't want to hurt my T that way.

Monte, I had not considered before that my T's heartstrings might be pulled without me realizing it. I wonder how often she tries to hide it from me. I know she has a big heart cuz once in a great while she will disclose concerns she has had for other clients (w/out sharing any personally identifiable info, of course), and I see it in her face and hear it in her voice how much she cares and worries for them. Maybe she worries for me too, but just doesn't say it.

Hi MH

quote:

If a dual relationship would threaten my T's career - regardless of how stupid and unforgiving she or I believe some of the regulations are - then I must try harder to be satisfied with less; I don't want to hurt my T that way.

I like the way you have articulated this point - it's a kind of nice way of us showing respect for our T's (whom we so deeply care for it hurts and from whom we want such deep care in return). So perhaps I too "must try harder to be satisfied with less". I don't like it (sorry, that's my inner two year old throwing another temper tantrum! )but that (for me) is a more selfless way of thinking about the rejection I feel when those boundaries get in the way of me wanting more from my T.

Thanks for sharing MH.

I'm OK

quote:

If a dual relationship would threaten my T's career - regardless of how stupid and unforgiving she or I believe some of the regulations are - then I must try harder to be satisfied with less; I don't want to hurt my T that way.

Even though I continue to push boundaries it is that thought that stops me at a certain point.

Hi Guys,
There's another important aspect to remember about boundaries. You don't only protect your T by respecting them, they're there for your protection also. The statistics on what happens to people whose therapists don't respect boundaries are pretty bad. The consequences range from not being able to trust to an increased suicide rate. You're T isn't the only one who needs to be cared for in this relationship. It's important to remember that not being able to have what we want in this relationship is NOT about not being loved or cared for the way it was the first time around. This time the things being withheld are ALL ABOUT our needs and what will be healthy for us. Our Ts don't cross those boundaries BECAUSE they care and see us as worthwhile enough to be protected and taken care of.

AG

Hi Everyone,
I have a question about boundries. First off- I think my T is the best ever. He really does not set boundries in the talking sense, but the boundries are clearly there. I know more by trial and error, than by anything else. I have mentioned elsewhere that sometimes he says things and I don't know if he is serious or just being validating. (I have learned that mostly- he is being validating)Since we live and work in the same community- on occasion (rarely though) I will run into him. At first, I totally became unglued, and felt that I embarrassed myself when he- his wife and his son came to the restaurant I was working at. Guess who his waitress was? I acted very weird, but he was extremely graceious, and in the end- it all worked out. We both go to the YMCA, and I ski and he snowboards, surfs, longboards... Occasionally at the end of a session, he will mention-"let me know when you are on the mountain" so a few times I have txted him. He has always had an excuse for not coming. So I assumed this is one of those validation things and he really has no intention of taking a few runs with me. (I would love for this to happen) Well this afternoon, on my way home from the mountain, I receive a txt from him, asking me if I was on the mountain,and what were the conditions like because he was thinking of coming up. I really would have turned the car around and gone back, but my daughter was with me, and she wanted to go home, (DARN)so it never materialized. Finally the question- Skiing/snow boarding with your T, is that crossing a forbidden boundry? I should add- that he is extremely professional (not stiff shirt professional) and I feel that no matter what- he would never do anything to hurt me. I would take a risk, but he is way to disciplined and wise to do anything foolish. (DARN)

Hi Helle,
You mentioned living in a small community and boundaries usually need to be less rigid under those circumstances. Syracuse is a large enough place that in 20 years I never once ran into either of my Ts outside the office so it may be that your T is handling things that way. I really feel for you waiting on him and his family. I can get very jealous of my Ts family and don't know how well I would handle seeing him with his family for all that time, so I'm impressed how well you handled it.

I don't know if you've ever heard of a boundary crossing versus a boundary violation? Boundaries can be crossed but as long as the resaon is in the patient's best interest and can be throuroughly discussed in session, then no harm is done. Boundary violations are when the boundaries are crossed and its about the therapist's needs. These are, almost without exception, harmful to the patient.

As far as snowboarding, as much as I would want to do it, I would probably avoid it. We have a hard enough time recognizing that therapy is all we can have. Doing a recreational activity together can blur those lines and raise the expectations of getting more, which in the end will really hurt. And the fact is that our relationship to our T isn't like any other relationship we have. Anything they say or do towards us carries an enormous amount of both literal and symbolic significance. When you are in session, a good T is very conscious of this and is thus careful in their interactions with you. Even under those conditions, misattunements and misunderstandings can occur and have to be worked through. I would worry that being together having fun, your T might throw out a joke or remark on your skiing that you wouldn't think twice about hearing from a friend and he wouldn't think twice about saying, but because it's your T, it might really hurt you. And you would be hesitant to bring it up as a problem because then you would risk losing this extra "priviledge." And there it would sit, this unaired problem fogging up therapy.

Having said all that, it's definitely your's and your Ts decision on how to handle it. And if I'm painfully honest, I'm not sure I would have the will power to say no to an invitation like that. So that's my take on it but feel free to toss it out if it doesn't feel like this fits.

AG

quote:

And the fact is that our relationship to our T isn't like any other relationship we have. Anything they say or do towards us carries an enormous amount of both literal and symbolic significance.

Hi AG,
I know you are right.
He went up by himself. I txt him to say the schools are closed tomorrow, and the mountain is opening early (because we are having crazy snow here), but his response-"just got off the mtn- work tomorrow, have fun". It is disappointing, but I guess it is easier for me. Why do I have to act too willing to please him. I don't like that part of me.
Thanks for your good stuff.
In an earlier post- you said that you were saying good-bye to your T. How did that go for you?

Hi Helle,
I'm really sorry I was right. I totally understand you wanting to be able to go skiing. My T owns a sailboat and I LOVE to sail although I don't get to go too often and I don't know why but more than anything else I would kill to just be able to spend a day on his boat with him. I really understand wanting to know more of them than you can get in therapy. And don't beat yourself up for being too willing to please. We often had to be too willing to please to survive when we were kids and part of why we're in therapy is to learn not to do that. That's an important part of why a good T will NOT let therapy become about their needs. If you can't take care of them, then you're in a space in which you can, for once, pay attention to your needs and feelings without having to worry about the other person being angry or leaving. Once you learn to do that, you can take it with you out of therapy and do it in other relationships.

Thanks for asking about how things are going with saying goodbye. We're going to take it slowly as my reaction once I decided was a bit of a freak out, you can read about it here:

The Mother of All Triggers

AG

Hi Monte,
What you are describing is definitely what I would call a boundary crossing. Yes, the boundaries are being crossed but it's obviously due to your needs. I think the more experienced a T is the more they can get away with doing this. I often think that the best experienced Ts will actually adjust their boundaries for each patient, and even on an ongoing basis, always reassessing for the same client. The truth is that therapy is at least as much an art as a science and I think that too much rigidity and inflexibility can do as much or more damage than being able to bend occasionally.

Especially with trauma patients, more personal disclosure on the part of the therapist is called for because we have such a difficult time trusting. I know for me, I needed to get some kind of feel that my T was who he presented himself as, so that I could trust him enough to open up. So what you're saying makes a lot of sense to me.

As far as you still being in therapy, I live in a very large, very extensive glass house, so no comment from me.

AG

Thanks Ag, Thanks Monte for your insights. Today I am extremely angry and disappointed with my T (I got it out on another thread) but underneath it all I think my T is the kind of T that you described Monte.
But his willingness to extend himself beyond the norm has impressed me, kept me there long enough to develop a genuine emotional response to him, to trust him and be able to rest in that trust,
That Limbic Resonance- boy do I miss it now. But do know what it feels like. Thanks Guys.

My take on the boundary thing is a little jaded right now ( or maybe its finally real?)

My new P said something that stuck with me....she said that "outside of the therapy session all bets are off".....therapists are not required to, or are meant to be there to meet our needs outside of the office/outside of therapeutic boundaries. They can seem to be/often are, completely different people. Their training combined with the therapapeutic relationship is designed to replicate that perfect situation you needed as a vulnerable child ......it is designed to heal. I am thinking here of comparing it to wound healing in a physical sense. When bandages over wounds are changed, nurses use aseptic technique....it is designed to keep all bacteria and infective material away from the wound. We have to try to create a special environment with sterile technique which is an artificial environment in this world full of germs. It takes work and determined effort to keep this area inside of the boundary bacteria free, or at least as free of germs as possible.

Therapeutic relationship boundaries are like "sterile technique" meant to keep out infecting and debiliating stuff from the therapist (environment) so that we can heal optimally.

But, step outside of that sterile field into a therapist's real life and who knows what you would get?

So all of our pining for that connection with a T outside of the boundaries is like believing an illusion is the real thing.
Outside of that relationship the therapist is also dealing with infective material that compromises how they are and how they respond to us.

Being outside the boundary and stepping into my T's personal life has sure proven to be a losing bet for me.

IHTS

IHTS,
I think your take on the boundary thing is probably more real now. I have to say that the analogy of the sterile field is an awesome one! It describes what therapists try to do which is to keep their own needs out of the room. But just as a doctor taking care of us is a real person and we are seeing a real aspect of them, in the same way our Ts are real people, but we see only one of their aspects.

My T raises non-defensiveness to a high art. No matter how I tell him I'm feeling (and trust me, I've covered a broad spectrum of emotions!) he never reacts defensively and his reaction is always about how I'm feeling and what it says about me. I said to him once "please tell me that you do occasionally get angry or defensive." He laughed and said of course he does, because in other relationships he is also trying to get his needs met. I've also told him I'd like 15 mins alone with his wife. I'm sure the woman who has to pick up his socks, fight with him about bills, and put up with phone calls at all hours from his patients, has a different take on him than I do. The truth, as hard as it can be for us to face, is that a large part of our T's "perfection" is that they are totally concentrated on our needs. It's a very seductive quality, right up until you slam into realizing you can't really know them the way you want. But I am sorry that you have had to directly experience the disillusionment of seeing behind those walls and being hurt so badly.

May I say thank you for sharing all of this? I am having a very difficult time right now getting to a point of final acceptance that even now that I don't feel such deep needs for my T, that I can do this on my own now, I still can't go beyond those boundaries. I get intellectually it's for my good, but hearing your story helps me to get it on a much more visceral level. My T has always acknowledged that he understands my frustration and anger about the boundaries, but has also been very clear that they will remain in place. Hearing you talk about your experience is helping me to feel very grateful for that. Thank you for being so open about what you're going through.

I hope that your new P can help you to heal from what has happened to you.

AG

I thought most therapists were Rogerian in their methods. I guess that is not so. My T is, and one of the tenets of that type of therapy after putting the needs of the client first (that is the most important)is to be real with he client. Be yourself, and the more they can do that, the more you learn to trust because you know they are being honest with you.(not wearing a mask so to speak- if he did wear the mask, I could tell, and I would have to fire him- again)
If my T was having a bad day- he will tell me that- not talk about it really but just let me know. It makes us both aware- just in case there is misatunement. If this happens, I know it is not me, and I can call him on it. Something like- wow whatever happened today is still bothering you. Because he is real, I feel safe in doing that. It has happened, but it is rare. This also give him the opportunity to apologise. IDK- I could be wrong- cuz I am dealing with a boundry issue involving Spirituality so May-be start a new thread, or just cry for a while.

Hi Helle

So sorry you are having a hard time, sending a hug to you, whether you are crying or not.

I would agree on Ts being able to be honest about how they feel. My T has told me one or two things from her at certain times that I was very glad I knew (and also hepled me to understand issues like re scheduling that had occurred). I have no right to know anything but I am broadly aware I can be more sensitive, without of course taking responsibility for her, and also part of trauma healing is helped by realising and sharing experiences with others, even if their experiences were not as yours. AG you wrote beautifully about the importance of that in trauma work somewhere (put it in the very logical 'AG way')it certainly helped me a bit to see what my T was doing. If I ever wonder how she is feeling, I ask and she says she will be truthful in her reply. I don't often ask but it helps to know I can.

Sorry to hear of your Spirituality boundary issues Helle, how hard too , post if you can, if you feel able and wish to.

starfish

It hurts so much...I've only been a reader on this site but I am in so much pain I don't know where to turn. I've been with my therapist for three years and I think I need t leave her. I think I broke the boundaries and it has hurt me in the end. I fell in love with my therapist within a few months of therapy and I have all the characteristics experienced in transference. For the most part things were going along fine but then I started doing what I do in every relationship...I started praising her and putting her in this "God-like" place. Then I started bring coffee and dessert to every session. Then I bought gifts for every holiday under the sun. The gifts started small but then became expensive. Recently it was my birthday and although I truly didn't want a gift I thought at least she would buy me a nice card. I think I want more than I client/therapist relationship and it hurts so much that she doesn't see things this way. I thought because our sessions tend to be a 50/50 share of both of our lives that she would want to be my friend. I have been struggling all my life with relationship issues and now I just repeated the same mistakes with the one person I thought could help me.

Hi Empty,

Welcome to the site and thank you for sharing what you're experiencing - I know it can be really hard at first, especially with something that hurts like what you're describing. The situation with your T right now sounds so painful - like you've been giving and giving with the hope of getting something back, only to find your gifts can't or won't be requited.

I'm curious about a few things in your situation - did your T ever say anything about the food or gifts? Have you ever talked about boundaries together, or what it means for her to be sharing about her life too? And did you discuss the birthday issue at all?

Different Ts do boundaries in different ways, but I think what's really important is having a T who is aware of them, who can communicate about them and help you through the pain of experiencing them to the safety and security of experiencing them. I think that's the difference between boundaries being, on the one hand, a nightmarish issue, and on the other, rich and rewarding ground for therapeutic work.

It sounds at the moment like there is, at least, not enough communication around boundaries for you to feel sure about what's happening with your T or why. And the stuff that IS happening sounds pretty confusing and inconsistent. But maybe you could say a bit more about the communication and the relationship? What sort of stuff is she sharing about her life?

Again - glad you posted.

Jones

Hi E - I should say that above I meant "gifts" in the broad sense - the gifts of your love and friendship - not that you were hoping for birthday gifts!

Hi Jones,
Thank you for your kind response. I had to leave work today because I was so upset. We do talk about boundaries but it's usally in a joking way.My therapist says she shouldn't enjoy my desserts so much and stuff like that but I can tell she enjoys them and she always thanks me. As far as the gifts, it's kind of the same thing. She usually says, I shouldn't take this but she loves my gifts and is always very thankful. I get such a good feeling when I give her a gift or do something nice for her. I love thinking that I am her favorite client.But
the words you wrote below really describe how I am feeling right now.
"It sounds at the moment like there is, at least, not enough communication around boundaries for you to feel sure about what's happening with your T or why. And the stuff that IS happening sounds pretty confusing and inconsistent."
I don't understand way it suddenly hit me so hard. Maybe because my birthday was a few days before Easter and it hurt me that she didn't really acknowledge it while we were together and then I gave her an Easter present.
You asked me to explain our relationship so I will try. I see her once a week for an hour and we talk about everything together. We both share problems about our family life, work,health,etc. Sometimes she needs to talk more than I do and othertimes it's more about me. We have each taken turns crying about our problems and being there for each other.
I don't know why I am letting this whole thing bother me. I found this site while googling the issue of transference and then I found lots of information about boundaries. Now I just feel confused, embarrassed, and empty.

Hi Empty, nice to meet you, sorry it's so tough for you. I hope you can get some support here to help a bit

It's difficult isn't it when the 'rules' aren't made clear - so maybe it's natural that you might want to behave as you would maybe to a friend if it's not been made explicit otherwise. I think I was really concerned about

quote:

We both share problems about our family life, work,health,etc. Sometimes she needs to talk more than I do and othertimes it's more about me. We have each taken turns crying about our problems and being there for each other.

that is really not her role. No wonder it feels hard for you now. Her role is to be there 100% for you and your difficulties and she shouldn't be offloading her problems onto you in your time and certainly not sharing more problems in a session than you. She should have her own therapy / supervision for that. How confusing for you Empty and difficult too now that the pattern has been established. In a frienship the relationship of sharing and being there for each other would be wholly appropriate, but then of course you would have expected a card on your birthday.... so it seems she is a little mixed on her boundaries which makes it even more mixed up for you. It is her responsibility to sort this out and I don't know if you could find the courage deep inside to speak to her and tell her how confusing and upsetting it is for you. Big ask I know and so easy for me to suggest. I know

I do think some openness and sharing is helpful in that relationship because that is in itself often validating and teaches us about life and how to trust. Of course our Ts are only human and will have problems and difficulties of their own, that might become obvious in the course of our sessions, but the main focus should alwaus be on you and your difficulties - always.

I hope this hasn't been too harsh Empty. It's only my opinion of course
Take care

starfish

Hi Empty,
Welcome to the forums, I'm glad you posted and asked about this. It's really understandable that you're upset and confused. On one hand your therapist is treating this relationship like a friendship, which it most definitely isn't, on the other hand she's not reciprocating like she's in a friendship which is the part that's hurting you.

The theraputic relationship is an odd duck, unlike any other adult relationship you'll have. The closest "regular" relationship is a parental one but even that's not exactly right. The relationship is supposed to be centered around your needs and concerns with clear boundaries that keep your therapist's concerns and problems out of the room. That's why they get paid. In a sense, that's what they get out of the relationship while we get their expertise and a place where we're free to totally concentrate on ourselves.

I am not questioning your therapist's genuine concern for you, but I am worried about her implementation of that concern. You said that sometimes it's about her problems or her crying and that really shouldn't be. A therapist needs to get their emotional needs met outside of therapy and most definitely NOT by their clients. Don't get me wrong, most therapists will do some self-disclosure and I have given small gifts (under $20 or handmade) to my therapist which he has accepted very graciously but we have always the thoroughly discussed the gifts (what it meant to me, why I gave them to him, etc) and his self-disclosure has always been based on my needs.

Just the fact that she's telling you she shouldn't do something but is doing it anyway concerns me. Part of why a lot of people go to therapy is because they never had healthy boundaries modeled for them. A therapist has a professional responsibility to model good boundaries both for the welfare of their client and so the client can learn them.

I would also urge you to discuss your confusion and hurt with your therapist. She should be able to remain non-defensive and concentrate on how her actions have affected you and allow you to express all those feelings. If that doesn't happen, I would really recommend looking for another therapist to work with at least to process the feelings created by this situation. If you do some other reading around the site, you'll see that a therapist having bad boundaries can lead to a lot of pain and confusion for the patient. I'm really glad that you're looking for help with this as it's understandable that you're feeling the way you do.

AG

Yeah- what they said.
Hi Empty,
I don't have much to add because there are so many wise people on here. And they have your best interest at heart- even when you might not agree with the words. (I know this by experience)
My T is a cross between a parent, a girl friend (he is a guy though,) and my dog- who is always happy to see me.

Hi E -

Thanks for saying more about your relationship with your T. Sorry I couldn't respond sooner but I think folks above say a lot of the stuff I want to say. I'm not surprised you're really hurting over this. The relationship may seem like it's "50/50" in some respects, but it's worth remembering that your T is getting paid for her services. That alone, and the professional satisfaction of helping you heal, is supposed to be the 50% she gets from this relationship. That's why it's her job, not a hobby.

She knows (on some level) she shouldn't take the other stuff from you, or share her life-troubles with you, because it actually unbalances the "50/50" deal, badly, and it leads directly to the kind of pain and confusion you're feeling right now. In my view she's taking stuff she isn't entitled to and giving you less than you deserve.

I say that with some hesitation because I know it probably stings to think about the relationship that way. Sounds like you are close in a sense, and that she is (to some degree) kindly and caring, and that you have been thinking of her as a friend.

But as AG says, she's not reciprocating as a friend - and she's not healing you as a therapist - and you are left feeling dreadful. Maybe it feels like you are not "worth" friendship or healing or both. The reality is, you ARE. While friendship can (and will) come from other sources, you've done such a brave thing in seeking out the healing, and frankly it sucks that she's let it get confused like this.

I wonder if it helps to think about the goals you had when you went into therapy, and the goals you have now, and use those to help you move to the next step. I agree with AG that it would be well worth talking to her about what's going on - maybe that will be easier if you have in mind what you want for yourself.

For me when I've hit problems with my T it's helped to remember that I want to be in a place where I'm sure about my relationship and working productively. I'm not there yet, and that is a good motivator for me to keep saying the things that I need to my T so I can get there - even though it freaks me out sometimes!

What do you think?

J

Hi, Empty, and welcome to the forums! I agree with all the excellent feedback you've already received. I'm really glad you took the chance to post your questions, so that you could find out that you were absolutely right to question what's going on! You really need to hear that the problem is not with you, that it is with your T not holding the boundaries.

quote:

I have been struggling all my life with relationship issues and now I just repeated the same mistakes with the one person I thought could help me.

What you said here especially tugged at my heart. It sounds like you are beating yourself up. Which seems especially out of place, when you are beating yourself up for bringing coffee, dessert, and presents, and giving your T as much air time as you get! Actually, it sounds like you know how to be a really great friend. The only thing you did that might possibly be a "mistake" is putting your T in a "God-like" place. And let me tell you, I really understand that one! I call it putting someone on a pedestal. I even draw pictures of them sometimes.

You say you've struggled all your life with relationship issues. Me too! That's probably what drives most of us to therapy in the first place. Now here's what's really weird about therapy: We are actually supposed to try and repeat the same troubling relationship patterns with our T! Our T's are supposed to expect that. The first time I read that, it surprised me. But then it started to make sense. Of course we're going to try to repeat those patterns...because we obviously can't see them. Otherwise, we could just change them ourselves, and we wouldn't need therapy! So you really weren't doing anything "wrong". You were showing up and showing your T how you relate to people.

Notice that I said, we "try" to repeat the same patterns with our T's. Here's where our T's have the responsibility not to let us actually take action! Instead, they are supposed to reflect back to us what we are trying to do, so we can see ourselves more clearly and make the changes we want to make.

So just like others have already said, your T didn't do her part. She allowed you to do what you normally do in relationships, possibly because she needed a good friend. Granted, I'm sure your T never set out to hurt you on purpose...in fact it sounds like part of the reason she allowed this to happen is because she likes you so much...but like everyone else here has said, she should get her needs for friendship met outside of the therapy room, so that instead of the "same old thing" happening again, you get the therapy and the healing you came there for. If she keeps her needs out of the room, then she can help you look at why you want to bring treats and presents, and why you see some people as "God-like", and how all of that affects your relationships, and how you want to change it, etc.

The T I have now is very good at keeping her needs out of the room. She has mentioned a few things about herself, but always to illustrate a point in the context of my therapy. It is just enough to know she has been through her own hard stuff and done her own therapy work, and she really understands some of the stuff I'm struggling with. Just enough for me to feel safe...but not so much that I feel responsible for her. She never talks about her problems or expects me to help her. There have been a couple of times in the last few sessions where I've inadvertently bumped into boundaries, very lightly, just reflexively asking the kinds of questions I'd ask someone who is a friend, and I've noticed her not answering and gently redirecting the conversation back to me. I didn't mention this specifically, but I did just tell her today how much I appreciate that she holds the boundaries in general. But then, it's also true that I haven't developed any strong transference feelings for her (like I did for my former T), which means I don't have to deal with the frustration of wanting to break boundaries. That makes it a whole lot easier to feel grateful.

I believe that your T really cares for you a great deal and I very much hope that you can work things out with her. I hope the feedback you're getting here helps to clarify what is going on, and gives you the encouragement to take the next step in your therapy.

Take care,
SG

Thank you all so much for your wonderful responses. I wish I had as much knowledge as all of you. Everything you wrote makes so much sense and helped me really understand why I am feeling so poorly. I have talked to my therapist and explained that I have some important issues that I would like to discuss with her this week. I pray I am strong enough to really tell her how I have been feeling. I have a hard time asking for what I need and find it easier to just let things continue as they are and just cry it out later.
Again, thanks to all of you...you are an amazing group of caring people.