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I have been sitting on this experience for about a month now. I haven't talked with anyone about it because... I don't know... I still feel rather reserved, protective, sad. But I'm going to tell the story, because there has been lots of chatter recently about boundaries, dual relationships, and what others have with their T.

I started seeing "BP" on January 2nd, 2006. I needed a pdoc for meds, because my previous t/pdoc had gone AWOL. (Just disappeared!) I didn't really start doing therapy with her right away, but it eventually developed into that.

There were things about how she ran her practice that really bugged me. Like answering the phone during a session. I had never known anyone to do that. She didn't seem to have a particular treatment modality, but she had a way of listening, remembering and seeing that helped me feel known and accepted.

I trusted her. We connected. She didn't balk at telling me about herself, especially if I asked. I might ask her, "Do you believe in god?" And she would tell me what she thought. Dr. P was herself. She was real. She didn't masquerade as someone or something she wasn't. That was very helpful to me, because my first twenty years were spent submerged in a community that flatly denied what I believed to be real. (Is death real? No. Is my headache real? No. Are these bad feelings real? No.) Through the years, I have needed to do a lot of reality testing, a lot of normalizing.

We had our ups and downs. I have been known to be "difficult." Wink I attached, I raged, I cried, I laughed. It was "good enough."

Then at the end of last summer, she told me that she was going to close her private practice and hoped to move. Her progressive illness was getting worse. One time, I was in the waiting room and Dr. P was running very late. Then my phone rang and it was Dr. P. She was in the parking lot and asked if I could come out to help her. She was walking stiffly and so, so slowly. I carried her stuff and we made it up to her office, but it was obvious that things weren't right. It was really something to see her in such a debilitated and vulnerable state. It blew my mind. This was not the model of stability that was the psychological strength I experienced in her office. I was not surprised, then, when she told me she was going to retire.

And she did retire, on November 15th, 2012 - the anniversary of two different suicide attempts! I grieved that I was losing a t/pdoc. I grieved that I was losing a female parental figure after having lost my mother in March. And I was worried. Worried about her health and wondering what would happen to her. I wanted to stay in touch - at least via Christmas cards and a yearly letter, as I do with another oldT. But would her health allow her to respond? Would I even know if she passed on? I had many thoughts and questions.

I had my final session with her, having finally realized that she wasn't joining my mother. She was still very much on Earth, just an hour away, and still accessible. She wasn't dead. I'd been able to email Dr. P and I thought long and hard about whether I would still do that. I decided that I needed to allow myself (and her) some time to get through the separation. At three months, I sent her a "thinking about you" card. Then at six months, I sent a brief email, asking, "Are you out there?" I didn't want to compose a lengthy email and risk having it fall into a black hole. When she replied, "yes," I said I would send her a long email, and she replied that she would look forward to reading it. She signed the email "B" - her first name.

I did send her a long email, filling her in on things that we'd talked about, things that she knew about me. No response. I worried. Was there something wrong with her? Did she just not care? Was she having computer problems? What? Then one day, a brief response and a suggestion that we meet for lunch. Lunch. Lunch with t/pdoc. Isn't that what half the people on this board would give their eye teeth for? A real world connection with T.

I said okay and we set a date and restaurant. I would drive and pick up "B." Easier that way with her disability. I showed up with an offering of freshly picked sugar snap peas, and we hugged briefly. Then we were off. Lunch was fine. We chatted. She did much of the talking; I'm a good listener. Back in the car, she asked if I had more time and if so, could we run some errands. OK. So I took her by the post office and the bank and fed ex. Then she invited me into her home to introduce me to her new puppy. Of course I had to see the puppy. Frankly, I was grateful for the diversion. While I was playing with the puppy, "B's" phone rang. She talked for a few minutes and then I heard her say, "Well, I've got a girlfriend here." After she hung up, she said, "Did you hear that? Girlfriend."

As I was leaving she asked, "So how was this? Was this too weird for you?" I said no, got in my car and waved good-bye.

I hadn't had lunch with Dr. P; I'd had lunch with "B," someone I only knew about. They were similar people, but not the same. We chatted. She asked me what I'd been doing but didn't ask how I'd been doing. It was not the same level of dedicated interest that exists in a session. It was simply lunch between two acquaintances.

I felt really sad. I felt that I had lost my Dr. P. I wished we'd never gone to lunch.
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quote:
I felt really sad. I felt that I had lost my Dr. P. I wished we'd never gone to lunch.


((RT))

Thanks for sharing this with us. Hug two

That quote is so true. This is the quandary we go through isn't it? That "dance" between what we WANT and what we NEED. That never ending question about when is good enough...enough?

I think your reasons for posting this right now are as timely as you thought: there is alot of insight in this.


Smiler
Wow RT,
That was very emotional to read. I think a classic case of 'be careful what you wish for'!
Whooo would not dream of lunch with T, but the reality is you gain something, but also lose something.
When T and I have talked about our relationship, she has said that it is not a friendship, I have felt a little put out when she says it, but then she says our relationship is about my needs and a frienship is about two peoples needs.
Very interesting to read RT.
A day or so later I sent her an email saying thank-you for lunch (she bought), that I thought her puppy was adorable and smart, and that I was glad to see that she seemed happy with where she was. Then I said that this would probably be the last time she heard from me.

A day or so later she replied and said that she didn't feel comfortable with me saying it would probably be the last time... and was I suicidal.

I didn't reply.

I guess I feel like I lost something by going out to lunch with her and having those everyday experiences. I lost Dr. P.

.
Even though I haven't had an experience like this with either of my Ts, I feel sad about what you lost. I felt it as soon as I read your post. It does sound like you lost the "Dr" part - and that is a huge loss...especially when you think of the role she played and what she came to mean to you in that role.

Thinking of you, Red Tomato.

The Kid
Aside from possibly additional contact (or something - I don't know) what's the benefit of not responding to someone who is worried enough to ask if you're suicidal? Humans (animals) are pleasure seekers, most things we do benefit us in some way or another. Just curious.

It sucks that the relationship has changed, maybe in time you would have found 'B' as a friend... changing dynamics in relationships takes a while Frowner and especially given the previous one-sided (for the most part) dynamic. Sorry you regret the experience and I'm also sorry she retired and is sick Frowner I have a similar situation (not with my T) and even though I knew them so long it was one sided and instead of not asking me how I was she WAS asking me how I was and me her. It's weird to learn the other side of people. You were brave to try it out - especially eating yikes... I can't eat in the same room as my Ts. Eating disorder thing.
quote:
"November 15th, 2013"

Did you mean 2012?

I can relate RT in some ways. I always thought that when I see a T that I want to know them intimately and they know me the same way.
I saw T who gradually broke down many of the therapeutic boundaries between us and the short story of it is that I eventually lost interest in seeing her. She became like a friend to me rather than a T. Over time this depressed me oddly. I got very depressed. She called me every day whether I asked her to or not. I got to the point where I didn't even care if I heard from her anymore. It took a while for me to find a new T. I fell apart while searching for a new T and because of that I scared a lot of them away because I think I came off as too needy. The T I see now was willing to look past that. I am gaining strength now and finding my way again. Though the new T won't really catch up with me. She is still treating me as though I am still that overwhelmed, needy person and it's frustrating. I have explained to her many times that I was in a horrible place.

Anyway I get what you're saying about wishing you had never gone to lunch with her.
RT,
Thank you for posting this. I am struggling so much with wanting my T to just, for once, drop those boundaries a bit and let me in, but I know it wouldn't be good for me. I think how you feel is natural. I know what I long for with my T is to have him 24/7 as he is in his office and that's impossible .

I am truly sorry for the pain you find yourself in over this and I am close to certain I would feel the same way. I so appreciate you being vulnerable about this though, as it is a valuable lesson for me. Hug two

AG


I have often thought of what it would be like to be able to see T o/s the office. After reading about your experience and additional feelings it's caused you, I better understand why it's not favoured. I am really, really sorry you're having to go thru this, too, RT.

I know it doesn't give you any comfort but please know you are in my thoughts.

The Kid
I'm sorry RT for your loss of your therapist. It sounds more than awkward. I became friends with a T gradually, after moving away from where she was. We had had a good therapeutic relationship for 2 years. Our social relationship began gradually, we exchanged letters, etc. Then she made a visit to where I now live, and I also visited the place where I used to live and we had lunch. I went to her house and met her cat--awkward. I do feel like I gained a friend, but with all that entails--having it be give and take, realizing they aren't as perfect as I thought, and finally, losing a therapist since they forever leave that role.

Last year, I was terminated by a T I began seeing after "friendT" it was traumatic and I wished I could have discussed the situation with her and gotten advice, but she seemed awkward dealing with the situation. She was caught in being a former T and now friend. She did respond, but in a cut and dried manner, very unlike her as a person.

There have been other awkward moments over the years of being friends with her. We live in different states, so we don't see each other regularly, and our emails are now every few months or so. If I had to choose, I'm glad I have this kind of relationship with her rather than nothing, but there are some downsides.

I think you can gain something but then you automatically lose something too.

I think it would have been very awkward for me to be asked to help a physically ailing exP with errands, not only is she no longer your P but now she is needing something from you. Was it uncomfortable? Would you have felt differently about her if she hadn't needed your help back at the office or at lunch?

I guess one way to look at it, is that she clearly likes you and finds things about you that are likeable that she wants a relationship. I hope you feel good about that.
Wow! Red Tomato thank you for sharing your story!

Hug two

My relationship with my former T felt like a friendship many times. I felt like I was helping or counseling her. She was honest about the stuff going on in her life. At times I didn't feel like opening up though due to her stuff. That was an issue that I didn't bring up until the last session, so that was something that I should have gotten into before that, I guess. That's one of my issues that I need to work on. Anyway, I wish in some way I could have my former T in my life socially or in a work capacity, but I'm pretty sure it will just continue to be an accidental run in around town instead. I will definitely let others on here know if my relationship with former T changes to something else.
I've run into my former T at community events and at a bar. It has been awkward and at the same time nice.

Ok...I rambled...

Red Tomato-I hope you feel better about P/B and the way things have gone in your relationship with her. I would hope that you let her know that you are ok and not suicidal.
No, Athenacus, I didn't didn't answer her email, to let her know how I was. I felt that our T relationship was over, and I didn't want any further contact. Answering her would have opened myself up in a therapy kind of way, and I'd just told her (and realized myself) that it was over.

One other part of this story that I hadn't included in this post was that when we met for lunch, she told me she had taken on some consulting work with a local health clinic. At first it was going to be just over the phone, but that wasn't working out, so she was going to start going to the clinic. That felt like such a ... betrayal doesn't seem like the correct word, but it's close. She closed her practice and "quit" me, yet other people are now able to be her patient. It just felt like a slap in the face.

(And, no, there isn't an option of me seeing her in the clinic. It serves a geographic and economic population that I'm not part of.)

RT
Oh, I see RT. Sorry about that.
I see where that would seem like a betrayal.
Frowner

My former T mentioned a different type of relationship that I could have with her. Then, in my last session she back peddled a lot when I asked her about it. I felt like I was letting go of the therapeutic relationship in favor of a different one that might not ever occur anyway. I also felt that she was trying to get rid of me. I still get confused when I think of our relationship, but I miss her soooo much at the same time!
Confused

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