It's become so much more noticable. I've been more obsessive-compulsive lately, and what that usually means for me, is there is inner conflict and one feeling or ego state is trying to dominate the other.

1. the playful, vulneralbe, sometimes naive, innocent child

2. the protector-smart, saavy, intelligent, confident one-the strong fighter

3. the self-sabateour (sp?) who tries to screw everything up; tells me i'm worthless and don't deserve joy or even deserve to exist

4. the helpless weak one-depressed, hopeless; trapped-imprisoned

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 5. the whole but semi-integrated self trying to regulate (and uncessfully control) the other ego states

I notice now that these have come and gone all my life Well-it feels like 1 and 2 are gone (they were around for the longest) and now i'm left with 3 and 4--who are fighting with 5 for dominance. But number 5 is new. But number 3 seems to be trying to take over and it seems like it is trumping the rest. I am so confused.

Why has #3 become the most dominant one? Why is #4 around now when it was gone for so long?L?When I start feeling like #5, that's when things become the worst. Help!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: xoxo,

That sounds really tough, XOXO but I love your awareness of it all. I think many people have many different aspects operating at different times with different dominance but most people are not aware of them. I think your awareness of each part is hugely helpful to you. Does it distance you from allowing the feelings to emerge from each part, when you analyse it like this, or does it help? I find if I have too much cognitive awareness of my young self - I can unintentionally suppress the feelings from that part, as I am analysing too much.

xoxo
I'm so sorry for your difficulties. Seems like a battle we are all fighting and trying to achieve #5...two steps back will become three steps forward before long. I agree with Sadly the awareness is hugely helpful which I wonder "for myself" if on some level I don't want to let go of the other parts because it would mean changes in counseling that I don't want to let go of. Just hoping it turns around for you soon and those parts can integrate into your whole self...I know you'll keep working. Take care.
Hopeful

XOXO,
Sorry this is such a painful, confusing time for you, although what you are describing does make a lot of sense if seen in the right light I believe. I do want to make clear that what I am going to say is very much based on my own experience, so it may not fit, but enough of this resonated with me that I wanted to offer my input in the hope that it might help.

If I remember correctly, you've been in therapy for around 3-4 years? I am wondering if you've seen a significant increase recently in the amount of trust and security you are feeling for your P?

You identified part 4 as you as a young child. Which means that you were having these feelings at a time when you're needs were not being met, nor were you receiving any help to handle them. It wasn't safe to have these feelings, let alone express them. But now you have found a safe enough place to be scared, to quote my T. In your P, you have someone who can hear and understand these feelings and help you regulate them as you finally let them come out into the light of day. So it makes sense that they are coming back so strongly. It also makes sense that they are so confusing, because although the feelings come back with a sense of immediacy, they're not connected to anything going on here and now which can feel pretty confusing.

And if part 4 is emerging, it makes total sense that part 3 is also coming back stronger. When we get hurt in connection, then a part of us develops to keep us AWAY from connection because we see it as dangerous (for good reason). Shame is a powerful motivator, so we develop that inner critic whose purpose is to make us deeply ashamed of our needs in order to stop us from expressing them and getting hurt again. You are moving closer to a healthy connection and starting to express long buried needs so it makes sense that the shaming part of you would also increase it's volume trying to keep you "safe." That part of you needs to be met with what my T called the "gentle push." Compassion for the self that developed those beliefs and how understandable it was that you learned to believe those things, while being able to recognize that they are not true and need to be pushed away here and now.

As for 5, as clumsy and confusing as it can feel, this is the real sign you are healing. You know that all these states are part of you. My T really didn't like discussing "parts" because that meant to be in one part was to leave other parts of you behind. He used a model of at different times you have different feelings, but there is a consistent "I" having those feelings. I think that is what you are talking about when you talk about 5. You recognizing that you have a consistent self, who can experience a wide range of emotions and feelings. And before you could only let yourself be aware of one set at a time but now you are building an awareness that can tolerate holding them at the same time, even when they are in opposition (tough, tough skill to learn).

But if you think about this in terms of brain stucture, it's like you have these four different sets of neural networks and each network is well worn and highly connected to carry the sets of emotions that it developed to carry. But these networks have been isolated from each other. Now you are working to build neural pathways that connect them so that you can move thoughts and emotions BETWEEN them as swiftly as you do WITHIN them. This is slow, painstaking work and can only be done by experiencing the new way of relating that you have established with your P. So it's going to be spotty and intermittent, because the old way of doing things is still strong. But as you keep working at it, and allowing yourself to feel all of this and express it (as you have very courageously done here) those pathways will become stronger and more second nature.

I hope that might help somewhat. FWIW, it really does sound like you're healing, it's just awfully confusing and painful when you're in the middle of doing that.

AG

hi, xoxo (love the name, by the way) you have tremendous insight into how it is all playing out for you- that's a great thing. I'm sorry that the pain is intense, though. I wish I had something helpful to offer about it, but I figured it couldn't hurt to drop in an offer some hugs of support,

((((xoxo))))

BB

(((Everyone)))

Thanks for all your help with this.

quote:

Does it distance you from allowing the feelings to emerge from each part, when you analyse it like this, or does it help? I find if I have too much cognitive awareness of my young self - I can unintentionally suppress the feelings from that part, as I am analysing too much.

Sadly-I just realized all of this when I was writing to True North in the thread about therapists reading stories! So I really can't say how it will play out. I knew on an intuitive level-for many years-I have been 'different people', but yeah, this is really tough. My young self is very spontaneous but that's good to know how that awareness can sometimes hold you back..Btw-it's nice to see you here.

quote:

Seems like a battle we are all fighting and trying to achieve #5...I wonder "for myself" if on some level I don't want to let go of the other parts because it would mean changes in counseling that I don't want to let go of.

Hi Hopeful-I also think this is true. I know for sure i don't want to let go of other parts-not so much for the changes in counseling, but those parts of myself were much nicer to live with-I was happier. It is common to be resistant to change, for many reasons, too. You take care too.

quote:

If I remember correctly, you've been in therapy for around 3-4 years? I am wondering if you've seen a significant increase recently in the amount of trust and security you are feeling for your P?

Hi AG-I've been with him for only 2 years, but he is just naturally good with attachment and overall a very skilled therapist. But yes, that is true-over the past 6 months or more i don't filter out things i say to him. Everything just spills out.

quote:

[QUOTE]
You identified part 4 as you as a young child. Which means that you were having these feelings at a time when you're needs were not being met, nor were you receiving any help to handle them. It wasn't safe to have these feelings, let alone express them. But now you have found a safe enough place to be scared, to quote my T. In your P, you have someone who can hear and understand these feelings and help you regulate them as you finally let them come out into the light of day. So it makes sense that they are coming back so strongly. It also makes sense that they are so confusing, because although the feelings come back with a sense of immediacy, they're not connected to anything going on here and now which can feel pretty confusing.

That makes sense and yes it has been so confusing because they are not connected to anything..which makes them transference. Which is what our therapy is centered on, so in many ways it is a good thing. It just sux.

quote:

Shame is a powerful motivator, so we develop that inner critic whose purpose is to make us deeply ashamed of our needs in order to stop us from expressing them and getting hurt again. You are moving closer to a healthy connection and starting to express long buried needs so it makes sense that the shaming part of you would also increase it's volume trying to keep you "safe."

I've read about this before-but it's worse than what you said. It's not just in the attachment-it's in all aspects. Everytime lately I try to do things to better myself-that damn sabateur comes out so strong!! I hate it. Hate it. Hate it. It wont go away.

My therapist doesn't discuss 'parts' either. He always said I had a stable sense of self in some aspects but also a lot of inner conflicts. so I always was 5 but now its trying to gain dominance over all the rest....Yes what you said helps. Thanks.

quote:

hi, xoxo (love the name, by the way) you have tremendous insight into how it is all playing out for you- that's a great thing.

Hi BB, I'm UV (thought everyone knew by now). I don't even know how i ended up xoxo but I am now. Thanks for your words of encouragement.

I had to remove some of the details because it sounded 'out there' w/o all of the context (which would be too long to write).

It was better when I didn't have these feelings. This is one reason why i think this type of therapy is not for everyone-by far. I was already going downhill in terms of increased conflict when I found my T, and I do have some hope that it is a necessary part of the process rather than prolonging my suffering for the sake of suffering.

I had a dream I was in prison for 2 years (the same amount of time I have been with T) for some minor traffic violation. It turned into a nightmare when they wouldn't let me out to go to therapy once a week. It sort of ties in with this too. It's just that damn sabateur that makes things so much worse. I just go along my day, being myself (5), and it comes out all the time after I do or say things now. I wish that part would leave me the F alone!!!

Hey, xoxo- yeah I knew you were UV, I just didn't want to call you that since you changed the name- and I do like the new name, it's nice.

That sounds like a very scary dream you had there. I'm wondering if the saboteur is trying to supress the new connection you have with P, similar to what Monte experiences-?

quote:

It just sux.

Amen, sister!

Hello there xoxo! I did manage to read your thread before you deleted most of it (a shame as I thought what you’d written made a lot of sense even without the context you are speaking of.)

It sounds as if you are struggling with strong internal conflicts and I hope you can keep on top of it all. I’m sorry to hear that you’ve lost #1 and #2 , though maybe they haven’t disappeared altogether but are waiting in the wings to be integrated?

That’s very interesting that you say #5 is new – the beginnings of yourself as whole maybe? Obviously #3 is not very happy that things are shifting and changing (for the better) and is really pulling out the stops to keep the status quo intact.

I don’t recognize parts within myself, but I do experience on a moment by moment basis something I call the ‘judge’ which sounds very like your internal saboteur. Only my judge has all the weight of other people’s judgements and criticisms and enmity to give it power, despite the fact that I recognize it as my own interpretation of external reality. Oh that’s probably irrelevant but I’m trying to say that I understand and sympathize with having a perpetual drip drip drip of anti-you perceptions going on in every moment

I really hope #5 can keep growing and gaining in strength, even though it feels like how you were before was a much happier state to be in. The status quo is always more comfortable, simply because it’s familiar and change is scary at the best of times. Well ok so I’m stating the obvious here .

Sending you lots of support in your battle with the Saboteur.

LL

I talked to my therapist about this last week. It's still a work in progress. Still have conflicting feelings.

quote:

I'm wondering if the saboteur is trying to supress the new connection you have with P, similar to what Monte experiences-?

BB-I thought and thought about this and couldn't find it. I am just not very conflicted with my attachment to my T. I am happy with it, actually. I feel good seeking comfort from him, no inner battles there...

So i thought maybe what you said isn't related. (BTW-I love when people bring up things i hadn't thought about-whether they apply to me or not-thanks so much for the idea!!) Then just over the weekend, i felt that the internal saboteur might actually be the projections of my mother, the projections i internalized as a baby and child. The projections from her mind (the look in her eyes, the leaving me unprotected, the neglect, the rejection, the pushing me to be an adult at such a young age) that i was unwanted, that she wished i wasn't born, and that i would go away. And that maybe, my therapist can't 'get in there' because SHE is still in there. Uggg. This was more of a realization than it initially seemed, actually. Thanks for your help in leading to these insights, BB.

Hey again Lamps,

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That’s very interesting that you say #5 is new – the beginnings of yourself as whole maybe?

Gosh, i re-read what i wrote and one time i said 5 was new, another than it was there all along. See, i told you i was confused. but i'm not worried about that any longer....

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I don’t recognize parts within myself, but I do experience on a moment by moment basis something I call the ‘judge’ which sounds very like your internal saboteur.

Oh, yes, I used to call that my superego. I told my T once, "thanks for shutting up my superego"!!. It's deeper than that now. I think it's just starting to become conscious.....

quote:

anti-you perceptions going on in every moment

haha

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Sending you lots of support in your battle with the Saboteur

Awwwww-thanks....yes, join my Army, please!! Are you a Captain? A Colonel?? A Lamptain? A Cololamp???

Seriously, though, this came up last week in session, and i've been digging deeper. My therapist will not refer to parts, will not use the phrases 'inner child' or 'saboteur', won't even use the phrase 'ego state'...

He made so much sense though. He asked me what would make 'it' go away, and I lauged and said that if i was religious, than an exorcism. He told me that I feel that there is another person inside me because the emotion is so strong. We've talked many times about how emotions take on a concrete quality with me as they are so intense. He said different people express or experience emotions in different ways. He gave me examples of other patients-like someone who pictures violent thoughts of physically attacking another (they seem like 'normal' people, and would never act on those thoughts, but that's how they experience anger). Visual. He said with me, it feels like there is another part of me, another person, but that it actually represents a very strong emotion that I can't yet conceptualize/experience or talk about.

Then, as I mentioned in another thread, he said-what stops you from interacting with me as the inner, playful child? And really, there is nothing about him that is stopping me....which led me to the thoughts about my mother, which feels like her projections are inside me, and that i can't get them out....it was so horrible the other day..it got worse. Almost unbearable.

But, I found this to be true. The conflict is not really seperate me's fighting some kind of inner battle for who I am or should be. It seems like I have to eradicate my mother's projections of me to let in my therapist's projections of me-which are safe, loving, caring, authentic, accepting, empathetic, and protective.

And this ties together with the dream, after all. Aside from the authorities who wouldn't let me see my therapist while in jail, one person who i specifically remembered who was in jail with me was actually the judge who put me in there for the traffic ticket. He is, in real life, a very, scary judge i once met before...i think he is a psychopath...i have radar-but that's another story.... but this judge represents the internalization of my mother. It has control of me, or is trying to control me, is holding me back from internalizing my therapist's love.

I just have to get my mother out of my system. It is becoming torturous...hopefully i will have a break though as we can't be exposed to too much pain without relief. I am hopeful. I am lucky.

xoxo,

I love your insight and for your struggle. I've too recognized that I seem to drift in and out of different states of being and I'm unsure which one I prefer.

I have the state where I think I'm bored and anxious. I tend to talk to myself a lot and be a bit silly with myself, doing silly things in a very childish manner. I keep that state to myself at all times, but it tends to come out at random times when I'm at home.

Dress really affects me, especially coats. I know it sounds maybe a bit strange, but coats have a real effect on how I feel about myself and what state I perceive myself to be. I like my long grey coat because suddenly the intelligent, down-to-earth, relaxed, mature sense of who I am comes out really strong and I like her.

When I wear my small puffer jacket, I feel like I am 7 years old and I get extremely childlike and self conscious with it. All those qualities of feeling like a timid child come out and I don't like it.

I have my bomber jacket which makes me feel 'cool'. That's the teenage, 'hip' side of me that couldn't give a s**t about it all 'cause I got it goin' on, type of thing.

So my ego states come out in dress a lot and how I hold myself with what I wear. I think it's why I get so confused with my self-identity and what I wear. I go through bit phases Lately I'm wearing baseball caps and jumpers and I feel very lesbian (I am lesbian) but I'm not sure if I truly like it...it's very confusing for me what I feel comfortable in with self-identity.

I thought I was BPD because of self-identity issues but I'm really not sure these days...