((((((((( TN )))))))))

This experience sounds dreadful. I wish I had some words that would be comforting but I don't think I have any just now, but I do want to add my support, FWIW.

I think you are 110% justified in being highly distraught over the changing of the rules, regardless of the reasons behind the change. It sounds to me like your heart has been broken while you are protesting for what you know you need from your T. You deserve a T who is capable of supporting you the way you know you need to be supported. Not getting a reply to an email when getting one is expected and appropriate would trigger the hell out of me, too. From what you describe in your post, your anger and outrage and heartbreak all sound completely justified to me.

Still, I hope there's a way to somehow sort this out with your current T. It seems clear that there is also a lot of healing attunement with him.

So, I don't have much to offer at the moment, but sometimes when I'm really, really struggling, this Mary Oliver poem helps me somehow.

---------------------------

Wild Geese

You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
Tell me about despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
Meanwhile the world goes on.
Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
are moving across the landscapes,
over the prairies and the deep trees,
the mountains and the rivers.
Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air,
are heading home again.
Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting
over and over announcing your place
in the family of things.

---------------------------

Please keep safe no matter how. You clearly have the ability to progress and improve and feel better, and this hell will yield to a better place eventually.

Russ

((((TN))))

I have been trying to come up with the right words all weekend after reading your post. It seems that there are no words that I can say right now to convey how sorry I am for what you are going through. It is absolutely dreadful and I understand why it is so upsetting to you. Please stay safe and take gentle care of yourself right now.

TN,
Your pain sounds unbearable, and my heart aches for you. It is not fair that you have to carry this burden and feel so alone with it. I am so sorry.

I am glad that you were able to find a tiny microscopic speck of some hope to be able to post and let us offer some support to you. I know ultimately, unfortunately, and unfairly the pain is yours, but can you let us try to hold you up just a little bit?

Please, TN - Please be safe. Please. And try to gently take one moment at a time.

FOT
It's by Mary Oliver, and one of my absolute favourites. Thanks Russ for posting it. I always get real shivers when I read it Thise words are so gentle yet so powerful.

TN

quote:

Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting
over and over announcing your place
in the family of things.

(((((TN))))))

starfish

How are you doing, TN? When do you see your T next? I'm sorry you are in so much pain over this.

I agree with what Jones said above; he is not asking you to leave or abandoning you, he is only suggesting that you need a more specialized therapist. He is doing this because he cares about you and feels underqualified to help you. Seeing another therapist doesn't mean you have to stop seeing him.

I think I recall you mentioning that your husband doesn't even know you go to therapy...? Is there anyone else in real life you can talk to now? Does anyone know about your T? I hope there is someone you can call or visit when you are afraid to be alone. A friend who can go out for coffee with you? Even if they don't know what's going on, it helps to just be with someone, sometimes.

Take care, and please keep us updated. We worry about you.

TN, so sorry it is so hard for you now. i know getting through it seems so hard, but you can move through it. you have such strength to be able to post it all, and that takes strength, and HOPE to do. so, you have that. build on thoses strengths, sweet friend. and as to advise?? what i wished i would have done, when the writing was on the wall with t1, was line up t2 and run a bit parellel until i felt i had a place to land. i don't recommend going it alone til you find a spot, should YOU choose to leave your current t. post here all you need to to stay connected, you can pm me and i'll call you if you need an unskilled fellow friend in struggles. really, i would be happy to talk, to be a friend.

i have kids, too, and i know the feeling that you can't even catch your breathe to heal, as you have dependants, so please know i mean that about phoning.

that abandonment fear is intense. brings me to five years old real fast. just know, that that five year old is only a PART of all of you, talk to her, comfort her as you would comfort one of us. accept her fear as real to her, and comfort her.

i wish i could hold you and help.

((((((((truenorth)))))))))

Hi everyone and thank you all from my heart for all the support and hugs and love I feel here. I will respond in more depth to each of you at some point but I wanted to show up to say thanks and tell you all how much this means to me. My heart still hurts so much but I see things now that I missed in my agitation last week.

I just got back from seeing T again. We talked and argued and he told me over and over that he is not terminating me, that he is not asking me to leave BUT... he feels unable to give me what I need, and he thinks I should see someone else to do this work with because he sees how motivated I am to heal and he feels that he is hindering this healing by not understanding what I need and how to best support me as I go through this. Then he told me that it is also an ethical matter and that he would be unethical if he did not make me see this. And I know he is hugely ethical and that is why I feel so safe with him and why I respect him so much. He says he can see 3 things happening... either I finally give in and see that he is right about this or 2) we just agree to disagree or 3) he comes to see it my way that he is the only T for me. He's banking on number 1 and I will settle for 2 or 3. What I do see more of now is that he really really cares about me and that this is not easy for him either. I told him if I must go then I will leave therapy with wounds open and bleeding and that is the way I will live the rest of my life. He didn't like hearing that. I told him I'm not leaving him and I can be very stubborn. He said I never have to leave him and even if the time comes when he is no longer around I will always have him in "here" (pointing to his heart). And he said even if I decide to leave for a little while I am always welcome to come back to him and I asked so why would I come back then if I heal with someone else? And he said, there could be other things that come up that he could help me with and I asked him like what? And he said...well you think of something and I said, okay parenting and he said okay good and then he said he could help me decide on school and/or a new career and I said could you help me break this attachment I have for you? And he looked at me and said... I see no reason to do that. I see your attachment as a positive thing and I would not want to break that.

Then we sort of focused on my upcoming surgery which is scaring the crap out of me. He knows that and he wanted to focus on it because it will be in 3 weeks. I think he was proud of me for setting a date and handling this okay. I told him that he helped me with this making me see that my fear of losing control can be fought by taking control of the scheduling and picking my doctor and hospital. And then I told him that I didn't even care anymore if I died in surgery. I was in such emotional pain. That made him a bit angry but i didn't care.

And he confessed that he spoke to another T (the one I suspected he consulted with) who is a woman who does EMDR and I think she has influenced his change of behavior towards me. She is the one he wants to shove me off onto and I won't see a female T... NO HOW NO WAY and this is also an issue between us. I told him if I should ever ever decide to leave him and see another T he will never know who it is or what we work on.

So I'm trying to absorb all of this. We are meeting again on Thursday and I will see him tomorrow at a camp parent meeting with other parents so we will not talk but I can at least see him and know he's there.

I promise to be back and write more when I have more time.

Thanks
TN

TN, I hope you are feeling at least a tiny bit of relief.
I like that you remembered this:

quote:

and I said could you help me break this attachment I have for you? And he looked at me and said... I see no reason to do that. I see your attachment as a positive thing and I would not want to break that.

That stands out for me.
This attachment is positive, healing thing and he doesn't want to take it away from you. I'm glad he is going to be there for you. I hope you are going to work this out. I imagine that it would also frighten me terribly, the idea of such a change. I think I understand how you must be afraid, that there might be a danger of loosing this relationship. But he is not going anywhere and you will still continue to work together for as long as you need it. I think it's great. I hope you will be feeling safe again.
Take care.

Hi, TN...well, I am relieved to hear, that you stand on a little bit more solid ground...phew. Yet, it is vclear you are still very much hurting over this. I must ask you, because it keeps standing out for me, that it really almost seems like he means to reccommend the trauma T *in addition* to the work you are doing , not *instead of.* Is that what he meant, I wonder. At any rate, it must be a relief, that he doesn't want to break your attachment, and that he sees it as a positive thing...
At least it is making a little bit more sense now. When you feel like you want to and are able, please keep us posted on your situation...we are thinking about you, sending good thoughts to you...I am so glad, it is clear he cares very much about you.

BB

I don't know if you can call it relief or being on solid ground again. I'm a bit more clear as to what he was saying and wanting. But it's nothing good and I'm still terrified and my heart hurts so much. I don't think he was suggesting doing the trauma stuff in addition to working with him... he was saying to go off and spend how ever many years I need to and work out the trauma and then I could come back and ... what? I have no idea... chit chat with him about school and my career. What kind of therapy is that? What kind would I be "allowed" to do with him? What would I even have left to say to him? And how hurt would I be that he didn't want to try to help me and wanted to push off the "hard" work on another T and leave me alone to do this work that terrifies me?

If I leave him it will be that I'm quitting therapy because the person I trusted most in the world and who I felt safest with in the world turned out to be the one who broke me into so many pieces that there is not another T on earth who could put me back together again...

TN

I understand better. I guess I was so glad to see that he didn't want to break the attachment, and that he kept repeating that you don't have to leave, that I forgot the rest of it...I am sorry. Of course you are feeling heartbroken at the suggestion, even, and I really feel for you. I do see something positive in this:

quote:

he told me over and over that he is not terminating me, that he is not asking me to leave

In spite of the big but, it is very good that he doesn't expect or is asking you to go.

I think it is also good this:

quote:

He said I never have to leave him and even if the time comes when he is no longer around I will always have him in "here" (pointing to his heart). And he said even if I decide to leave for a little while I am always welcome to come back to him

I like the focus on "you decide" and on if he is no longer around, because it indicates that he does not expect you to leave. I think he just feels that ethically he is bound to let you know of his limitations, perhaps.

I'm sorry I said solid ground, I can see that is not really where you are standing now. But I sincerely hope that you are heading that way, and it does seem like there is much good in what he is saying, that points to the very real possibility that he is willing to continue the healing journey with you, but with you fully aware of your options, as well. At least I hope, pray this is the case, for your sake.

(((TN)))

BB

BB, my kind feathered friend.. no need to apologize. Your words were helpful and meant a lot to me. I'm just in a really bad place and don't mean to appear churlish. Yes, there was some good in the session and he left the decision up to me but in a way where I sort of feel backed into a corner. He did discuss ethical concerns and I told him I'd sign a paper saying I was aware of his limitations but freely chose to stay. He said that is not necessary. I think the woman he consulted with had a really adverse effect on him and that's why he is acting so strangely all of a sudden. Maybe she shook his confidence.

I know he does not have trauma training but he does so many things so right just instinctively. The attunement can be very powerful between us and because I know he's so ethical I feel safe with him... or I did... that has now been shaken.

I need his help to get me through the surgery in a few weeks and then we can talk more about how therapy will proceed.

One question though... for those of you dealing withi past trauma, do you all have Ts who are trained in dealing with trauma?

Thanks,
TN

TN, it's really good to see you here and posting. Like the others I feel some relief at reading the developing situation - partly just to know you are here and physically ok so far, that you still have access to him, that he is taking the time and talking it through with you and that he appears to be willing to stand by you and respect your decisions about this. Some of the worst possibilities have not yet eventuated and are looking somewhat less likely - hence the relief.

Having said that I know that the pain hasn't gone away for you - your world is STILL being absolutely rocked, and you are in the thick of great uncertainty and shock at the uncertainty, at a time when you actually deeply need the security you had come to trust. I know you are in acute pain, and I really hope that will be relieved soon.

I thought about your question, and I don't think I'm a good person to answer it. But I have to say thinking about it actually made me really mad on your behalf. WTF kind of therapist doesn't deal with trauma? But maybe my reaction here is just about the fuzzy definitions of this term. Some traumas and trauma situations are severe, complicated and/or just particular in kind - and they probably are better served by certain kinds of therapy work and/or training and/or contact conditions. I am NOT saying therefore you DO need a different T - the powerful attunement between you and the trust you've already established counterbalances that - but I can see how these things are factors.

The surgery must be extremely scary for you given the way you feel about medical stuff. I'm sorry this is adding to your load. I'm glad he is there for you to help you get through this.

J

Hey there TN well I’m glad on one level that you have been able to have this out with him and that he’s explained some things that maybe have given you a bit of perspective on what’s going on with him.

My first reaction though to when you mentioned he’d spoken to this EMDR woman was ‘hm isn’t that breach of confidentiality?’ Unless she’s his supervisor? I don’t understand why he would talk to someone else about you outside of the proper channels, even if he were struggling with feeling that he couldn’t help you heal in the way he perceives you needing to. I’d hate to think he’d been talking about your therapy ‘in passing’ to a fellow T and that she put her spoke in - which is what it sounds like has happened.

I’m also a bit gobsmacked by his listing the three choices - if he’s so adamant that he can’t help you in the way he thinks you need, giving two opposing choices (number 1 and 3) comes across as incredibly confusing, at the least. I also don’t understand how he can say that he would in no way help you break the attachment to him as that is a positive thing, yet at the same time is suggesting you go see someone else - sorry none of that makes sense to me (and I guess it doesn’t to you either!)

Actually it sounds as if he’s NOT clear or certain about what he’s suggesting and you may be right, this other woman has put a flea in his ear and he’s been put in the position of considering the ethics of continuing to help you when he is apparently not trained in trauma work.

And saying that if you do leave for a little while you’re always welcome to come back - well why do you have to leave in the first place then? I’m sorry it’s not really clear what he wants you to do - maybe all of this is really just about his feeling obligated to present you with the ethical options and that he doesn’t at all want you to go off and work with someone else, just that he is duty bound to give you that opportunity?

Whatever is going on with him, it sucks bigtime that you are being made to feel this way. And it must be really hard to have to need his help and support (for the upcoming surgery) while all this is unresolved. (((( TN ))))

LL

Thanks Jones and LL... I'm running to work now but wanted to thank you both and to clarify for LL... A while back when we were both struggling with his trauma inexperience he asked me if he could consult with someone about this issue to help me and I said he had my permission if he didn't use my name and if it was with someone that I didn't know or that knew me. I kinda guessed who it was and it's the same woman he wanted me to do EMDR with awhile back. I didn't see how that would work as you really need a secure and trusting relationship before doing EMDR work I know, and I didn't see that happening with this woman and bouncing between the two Ts would be ..first way out of my financial means and also impossible because I don't want a female T and the thought of revealing my trauma to this woman make me actually physically ill.

He wants to support me in the surgery and I think I do need him for that. He is good in that area... getting me past challenges. He is also really good with me when I have broached trauma issues and I think this is all in his head... more of a crisis of confidence on his part as he has been fine except for forgetting to reply to emails and perhaps backing off once in awhile when I move too close to him.

In so many ways he has been wonderfully healing. A real ressource and comfort for me.

I'll be back tonight to talk more if I can... it gets painful and also... I need to leave for work and cannot post during the day although I can read here.

TN