I know I have not been around much and it's been mostly hit or miss with my replies. I'm sorry for that as I've been going through some bad stuff lately... yeah still with regard to oldT.

Without going into detail I'm still trying to get my clinical records from him. He's making things difficult and letters are going back and forth for the past few months and still no resolution. I am also asking for a face to face meeting. I feel I need to do this and my current T supports me (albeit a bit reluctantly... because he does not want oldT to hurt me again).

Over the past few days I had to go back to certain places that brought back a lot of what happened last summer. I had to face down the fear of going back to a traumatic place and had to battle the grief again. I've also been feeling really tired. I still wake up each morning with the shakes trying to pull myself together to face the day of work and family and school etc.

I saw my T today and just something about finally being there and being with him just released all the sadness and grief that I was squashing down all weekend and I spent most of my time there crying about stuff that relates to oldT. He was wonderful as usual and very caring and understanding. Very "there" with me.

When I got there he noticed and commented on my pendant. He asked if he could look at it which means we sort of had to get closer LOL... and that gave me some anxiety. Not sure why. So I told him that I'm still not used to the idea that he "sees" me. He kinda chuckled and asked why wouldn't he see me? I said that I didn't think oldT ever saw me. In 3 years he made a comment to me 3 times about something I was wearing. My T then told me he likes my jewelry and sometimes it's something playful, just like he sees that as part of me, my personality, and he likes that. He said that I always look well put together and my hair is always perfect LOL. He said, it always looks good even if it's raining out or windy. I laughed and said "well you have never seen me in the morning" and then I thought "ooh did I say that?" and he chuckled and said... well, yeah, that is true..."

I told him I was tired and wanted to just take a nap on his couch. He said it's a very comfy couch and he has taken naps there on occassion on snow days when people have cancelled. Then I told him how I had to go back to a place that was scary and had really hard memories for me on Sunday and we talked about this. It was a place where I had a very happy, lovely encounter with old T and then months later turned into a place where my son last saw him, where he promised my son he would see him again very soon and then terminated him and never saw him again.

My T talked about how my oldT's inconsistencies really hurt me. He was also good at sending me mixed messages and confusing me. He was afraid of his own feelings towards me and of mine towards him. He didn't understand though why oldT would be afraid of my feelings since I seem to be able to contain them very well. I'm never out of control in any way and am very reasonable.

I talked to him about something really scary and difficult for me. I told him how I have been punished at work for going through that period last summer when I could not function. My boss was really pissed at me for not performing up to my usually super-efficient level and had talked to the manager about cutting my salary. I really didn't think he would go through with it, and I have also been able to improve my efficieny and my mood since finding my current T. Well, on Friday, we got paid and it was plainly evident that he followed through and I got a ten percent salary cut which really really hurts me. I tried SO hard to do my job last summer through all the trauma and pain and grief I was struggling with. I didn't take much time off except for my surgery and the other hospitalization for the complications. The problem was that they found me sometimes crying at my desk and I sometimes took longer at lunchtime because when I was trying to find a new T I would be so prostrate with grief I would sit in my car and cry for an hour before I could come back to work. And then of course I as only able to do the more routine stuff. Anything really complicated (I work in financial services) was totally beyond what my brain was capable of. And now I have hurt my family. They are going to suffer because of what I allowed to happen to me. That I allowed oldT to matter enough to hurt me and us like this and I have not told my dh that my pay has been cut and I just don't know what to tell him or how. Things have already been so hard for us that I have cut back on everything I could. But more than that it's the horrible shame I feel. I'm such a failure. It's my fault. Of course my T argued with me telling me it was not me but my T who failed in this. That my feelings were healthy. That if a patient never develops any feelings for a T over the long term while doing psychodynamic therapy he would worry that something was wrong with them (meaning inherently unhealthy to begin with) or that there was an issue with the therapy itself.

When I told him how hard the mornings are and that I still wake up shaking he asked me where HE was? What was I doing with HIM? I said what do you mean? He wanted to know what I get from him? I said... well if I'm seeing you that day I tell myself I just need to get to him and then I'll feel safe again. He said and on other days? I didn't know. He emphasized that he wants me to take everything I can from him. I told him I get empathy and safety. He said he would hope he offers me reassurance and support and connection and the relationship itself. He wants me to take that in. He said I take very little of what he offers to me into myself and he feels that part of the problem is that I have SO deeply internalized my oldT that it's really difficult for me to allow anyone else in. He told me that what he gives me is mine and is freely given to me. He wants me to have it. That I will always have it even if he drops dead tomorrow. No one can take it away from me, not even me and surely not him. He said this will protect me and make me less vulnerable. He said it's not an option... I must take it in... it will help me if I do. He was sort of smiling at me when he said it's not an option. I said oh that's an order? teasing him.

I think I need time to process all of this today. I hated leaving him today. He shook my hand and patted my arm. It felt good. I really wanted to hug him. He asked me if I was okay to go. We made a few minutes of small talk at the door and it helped me to calm down. He told me I worked really hard today and I always do. He said he'd let me know if my files arrive before our next session on Thursday.

There are times when I'm hit with the grief of what my oldT did to me. It infiltrates so many parts of my life. Then I struggle to live my life because I'm trying to avoid stuff that reminds me of him. Yet, I have to do certain things and then what happens is I get really dissociative or I numb out so I can't feel the pain. Life has become so constricted. The fear is so much a part of everything. Yes, I'm better than I was but so what? I'm still suffering the repercusions of last summer at work and with my son. My therapy has been off track since last June... that is almost ONE YEAR. If I didn't have a journal I would not even remember what I was talking about with oldT just before he went crazy.

sorry for rambling about all of this. I felt I had to write it out to process some of it. I may delete... not sure. I'm just feeling a lot of self-hate right now for all that I've allowed to happen to me and how I reacted to it all.

TN

This message has been edited. Last edited by: True North,

TN - No need to be sorry. You are always there for everyone else. I am glad that you are reaching out here. So much seems to be going on. When I hear how much you are allowing this connection with your current T, I can't imagine that such a devastating thing happened to you less than a year ago. You really are an amazing woman! I really do hope you can receive and take in everything your new T has to offer. It warms my heart to hear of your interactions. I can feel his tenderness to you through your words. You deserve it.

I can't believe they cut your pay at work! Is there anything you can do, like talk to HR? If it had been something blatantly medical, there is no way they would have dared doing it. It frustrates me that people still don't see mental health as essential to the health of a whole person. I can understand a bit how you feel. At my last position, my boss retired and I was promoted and asked to report to a new boss. I was told verbally that my new position would be the highest classification for my job, which implied a certain pay range. After three months of asking my boss for my official offer letter, and having my job description changed about ten times, I found out I was a lower classification and had only received a 7% raise when the promotion I had been promised would have been at least twice that. I had already done the work and couldn't fix it. I went to HR, but they did nothing. I know it's not exactly the same situation, but I know what it's like when a boss uses money to control/sanction you. So, I'm really angry for you. I don't know much about your relationship with H, but I have to imagine he will understand. He must have seen how hard things were for you last Summer. And I'd have to imagine that he'd be angry with your boss, rather than you.

Oh, TN. Everything sounds so heavy right now. I just want to reiterate that you are an amazing woman. You seem to face everything with such courage and grace and still have so much care to offer the others in your sphere. (((((TN))))) It will be OK.

Dear TN,

There is no time frame to grief...and especially the kind of grief you are going through, I hope that you will not be hard on yourself for feeling the way that you feel. Of course you still are badly hurting when stuff keeps coming up to remind you of how badly you were treated by someone who had a responsibility to take care of you and accept you. (((((TN))))

It is so mean of your work to give you a pay cut- you do not deserve that. Of course that is so triggering and hurtful. You do not deserve that, and it's not your fault. How is a person supposed to continue functioning at maximum capacity when they are in deep grief and traumatized? You are not a machine, and I think employers who don't realize that are very uncompassionate.

I'm so glad your T is there 100 percent for you in this, and that he wants you to take in his care for you. ((((((TN)))))))

Love,

BB

TN - I'm so sorry about the work stuff. It really sucks. And the back and forth with Old t (he doesn't get a capital letter) has got to be really painful.

I'm so glad your T. is able to be with you in this. And the part about where is HE when you're upset and shaking? SO GOOD and SO KEY. It's a huge thing when you are able to feel the love and connection even when you're not with T. I've had the experience a few times, and it's powerful and empowering.

Thinking warm thoughts of you today. (((TN)))

TN,

Wow, so much going on. I'm sorry to hear about the pay cut. It seems employers are always looking for an excuse to make cuts and rarely give out extra when someone performs really well (as you have in the past). I know that just adds stress to an already difficult time.

Your T asking where is HE in all of this is great! Definitely a good thing and I agree with BG, it is huge and very good when it happens. I go back and forth with this myself.

I know that you feel as if you've done this or allowed this to happen, but I can't say enough how much that belief just isn't true. You didn't allow any of this to happen. Sometimes bad things just happen no matter how much we try and you are having a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances. Please be gentle with yourself.

(((hugs)))

((((TN)))))

I think it is natural for you to be feeling this grief right now. There are four stages to grief and I think as you move through each phase, it will be like experiencing a new emotion surrounding what happened with oldT.

I'm so sorry to hear that he is not being cooperative with releasing your medical records. (Clearly he feels he has something to hide).

I'm glad that your new T "sees" you. I know what you mean by not being seen. My T2 doesn't comment on my outfits or appearance and I often wonder if its because she doesn't see me or if its because she doesn't want to focus on my appearance since body image is a big issue for me. I dunno. But I do know that it feels good to be seen so I am glad you are getting that need met now.

It sounds like you are dealing with so much right now. Stress level must be high! How are you sleeping?

Thanks all for your kind words and support in this. I'm feeling lost right now. I think when my T asked me where was HE in all of this when I was shaking and unable to face the day he was trying to help me internalize him so that he will be there... in my head...when I need that safe place. The problem is that I have no space for him in my head. It is still so filled with grief from oldT and fear I don't know how to make room for my T. I don't know how to take him in and take in the good things from him because I'm just not good at taking things in. I never was.

I just don't know how to get oldT out of my head. He is everywhere around me. He was so much a part of all the important parts of my life. And as much as I care for my T now and as much as he has been wonderful with me... I just don't feel for him with the same intensity as I did for oldT. The feelings are not as strong and certainly not strong enough to replace oldT internally.

It's probably this time of year too. Last year at this time I was making big strides (or so I thought) in therapy with oldT. We had lots of real connecting and intense sessions and interactions. Now I'm fighting with him for my files. It seems to be triggering the grief and the trauma all over again and I'm finding myself pushing my current T away from me. Part of it may be that I am feeling anxious about allowing ANYONE to get close to me. But I'm also afraid it's just not POSSIBLE to have those feelings for any other T except oldT and it just makes me sad because my T so obviously welcomes those feelings, understands and accepts them and I find myself really trying hard to believe that I do feel them.

And maybe I do feel them on some level but am unable to acknowledge it out of fear. I'm just feeling a lot of different things and some of them are anger but I'm not sure where to place it so I'm very angry with myself. I was the one who was stupid enough to allow someone to matter to me in the way that I allowed oldT to matter. I knew it was dangerous and I ignored the warning bells and let it happen and now I'm paying the price... literally.... in losing my pay and almost losing my job.

As far as management at work goes... no one understands the grief or trauma I've been through. No one died. There is no body. I look normal. But my brain, my executive function that I need to do my work just ceased during the worst of those months from July through at least November. And my boss because I work directly for him on the commission side, can cut whatever he wants to. And he stopped all my commission income.

I'm just so sad right now.

Thanks for listening
TN

(((TN)))

I'm sorry things are so hard now. I wish there was something I could say to help. I'm angry at your boss and furious at your old T. I think it is amazing that you are still reaching out and connecting with your new T even in the midst of all your grief and pain. I can't do that I don't have any negative T experiences to blame. You are inspirational and deserve so much better than life has been giving you lately.

di

incognito thank you for saying that. I'm just like everyone here ... trying to make sense out of the hard parts of life. I really want to attach to my T. I want to have that same kind of satisfying, soul connecting, intense relationship I had with oldT with my current T but it just does not FEEL the same and I cannot really explain it. Something is missing and maybe it's just the instablility and inconsistency that is missing (which is a good thing) but maybe I'm just not capable any longer of going to such a deeply intimate kind of relationship after what happened to me. I'm starting to believe that the damage inflicted by my oldT is permanent and people (especially Ts) and the world will never seem quite the same to me going forward.

TN

TN,

You are not to blame for getting hurt by oldT. You were not stupid to allow yourself to care for him. He was abusive of his power and the fault is his, not yours.

I am wondering if maybe it is possible to let go of the need to get the files from him, perhaps for now? It seems to be adding to your stress. Is there a reason you need them now or can it wait until some point when you are more healed?

(((((((TN))))))) I'm so sorry that your work have cut your pay...I know they mentioned it last year but am shocked they didn't discuss this with you again prior to following through. I'm also sorry you are still hurting so much at the hands of Old T and I am so happy that you have new T to guide you through this pain.

Take care
Butterfly

TN I’m also really sorry you’ve had this pay cut, it seems so unfair and almost like a punishment. Something similar happened to me when I had to take time off work to be in psych hospital, my boss decided when I came back to try and get rid of me (I fought it and retained my job) but it was very much the attitude, we are a business here and can’t afford to carry freeloaders! So much for the old fashioned paternalistic way of running a business. It sounds like you can’t do anything about getting your pay reinstated but is it possible to work your way back to it (ie show increasing productivity and earnings for the company?) Would he then have to up your pay commensurate with your output?

I have lots of thoughts about your feelings vis a vis oldT and newT. Firstly the way you felt and still feel about oldT struck me as very intense, all through the time you were seeing him and posting about your therapy it was really clear that you had profoundly strong positive feelings for him – in a word you loved him. I would be very surprised if you could feel the same level of intensity for newT, especially so quickly and given how you are still affected by oldT’s abandonment, and also I wonder whether it’s actually necessary for you to have to feel so deeply about him for healing to take place? It sounds to me like you are expecting to feel similar sorts of positive feelings for newT as for oldT and that that is some sort of measure of how well your therapy is going, as if you are required to feel like that as part of the therapy.

I think it’s great that newT wants you to take him in and have him in your head to sustain you between sessions, but maybe sometimes that might feel to you like he is expecting that to have happened and is contributing to your feeling like a failure, or that there’s something wrong with you for not feeling the same way towards him? It also reminds me of the classic (for me anyway) situation where my feelings get all tied up with the handsome rogue and the nice kind gentle man who is actually offering all the good stuff just doesn’t inspire the same feelings – a bit like, if it’s being offered on a plate it can’t be worth very much, whereas if it’s withheld from me that’s what I really want… I’m not saying that’s what’s happening for you at all, but it does sound as if you are almost beating yourself up for not having the same profound loving feelings for newT who is by far and away a ‘better’ T.

Can I say that I think you’ve been doing an amazing job of pushing yourself to keep healing, and remaining so open and vulnerable to the awful stuff that keeps ambushing you with oldT. If you can bear to think it, maybe this is all necessary for you to grow and heal – after all you could have just shut down on it all and gotten on with life without the awful pain of trying to resolve what happened. All kudos to you for staying with it and keeping on working through intolerable feelings. ((((((( TN ))))))))

LL

quote:

When I told him how hard the mornings are and that I still wake up shaking he asked me where HE was? What was I doing with HIM? I said what do you mean? He wanted to know what I get from him? I said... well if I'm seeing you that day I tell myself I just need to get to him and then I'll feel safe again. He said and on other days? I didn't know. He emphasized that he wants me to take everything I can from him. I told him I get empathy and safety. He said he would hope he offers me reassurance and support and connection and the relationship itself. He wants me to take that in. He said I take very little of what he offers to me into myself and he feels that part of the problem is that I have SO deeply internalized my oldT that it's really difficult for me to allow anyone else in. He told me that what he gives me is mine and is freely given to me. He wants me to have it. That I will always have it even if he drops dead tomorrow. No one can take it away from me, not even me and surely not him. He said this will protect me and make me less vulnerable. He said it's not an option... I must take it in... it will help me if I do. He was sort of smiling at me when he said it's not an option. I said oh that's an order? teasing him.

My goodness, TN - this is DIAMOND stuff! This T is saying all this to you? Wow!

I want to hug him - "keep saying this to TN - keep saying this - she really needs this right now, - please just keep telling her, you are just so good with her, keep telling her!"

What he is saying to you is music to my ears. I really feel AWE for the man, - he is GOOD. Really really operating from the heart, with true wisdom and kindness, and so experienced.

Drink this in, TN. Drink this in.

I feel for you. I don't know whether it helps - but I am on a 10 of my level of 1 to 10 of how bad it gets. I too find just functioning hard. I am hurting so bad. I have a friend who has terminal cancer. She was in the cancer hospital here until Sunday as the latest bout of chemo knocked her. Everyone is rallying around and being supportive and kind and she is inudated with help and advice and support and free reflexology and money for massage and all that


....

well you know what I am going to say next - and you will probably loathe me for it ...


but I cannot TELL anyone how much I hurt. And no kidding my pain is life threatening too in a quite different way - but no one knows and if they hear a bit, they back off, or they tell me to get my act together

This emotional pain hurts so much - and to go through it just with the support of a T - but no other real support is HELL>


I feel for you. I am sorry I have probably gone on too much, but you are holding a lot of grief that is utterly valid and it is going to feel hard going through this and I wish it was easier. I am so glad you posted and keep posting. I am sorry I am not here much to cheer you on and offer a cyber hand of gentle care.

quote:

I think it’s great that newT wants you to take him in and have him in your head to sustain you between sessions, but maybe sometimes that might feel to you like he is expecting that to have happened and is contributing to your feeling like a failure, or that there’s something wrong with you for not feeling the same way towards him? It also reminds me of the classic (for me anyway) situation where my feelings get all tied up with the handsome rogue and the nice kind gentle man who is actually offering all the good stuff just doesn’t inspire the same feelings – a bit like, if it’s being offered on a plate it can’t be worth very much, whereas if it’s withheld from me that’s what I really want… I’m not saying that’s what’s happening for you at all, but it does sound as if you are almost beating yourself up for not having the same profound loving feelings for newT who is by far and away a ‘better’ T.

LL...you just have a way of wading through all that I write to find the nugget that needs to be looked at and explored.

I feel like I'm backsliding. I don't know what is wrong with me but I feel a total disconnect from my T. Like I don't even want to go back. Something happened yesterday that was like a switch that is either killing my emotions or causing them to switch off into numbness. I am trying to figure it out but it's like the past six months never happened and I'm back into that black morass of hopelessness.

I've been pushing myself to feel for this T what I felt with my oldT and LL like you say maybe that is just not possible. They are different people and I'm a different person now too. But I understand it cannot be the "same" but I hoped it would feel as deep in it's own way. As meaningful in it's own way. It does not. I'm wondering if what happened yesterday was that it felt like my T was telling me I should feel about him the way I felt about my oldT that I should think of HIM in the morning and not the loss of my oldT. That HE should be the one in my head when I can't seem to be able to get him in there. There is no space in there. I'm trying but my emotions and my wants just switch back to my oldT. So I'm a freaking failure with this. The man keeps hurting me, won't see me, won't cooperate with me, hurt my child and caused my life all sorts of damage and I still cannot get him out of my head! I'm so defective I'd rather be hurt than cared for. That is totally sick.

Yesterday my T told me he could see how much I loved my oldT. He didn't think I was IN love with oldT but that he was clearly a very important person to me and I cared a great deal about him. I HATED hearing him say that to me. I don't know why except that it made me feel even more sick that I could love someone who was so cruel to me.

I just want to crawl off some place and hide for the rest of my life and just give up on all of this. I don't feel like I'm capable of a therapy relationship... I've been too damaged.

TN

TN - I was abused, hurt, molested, assaulted, manipulated and used by a guru, then by a T. I loved them both, I wanted to go back to them both. I was an adult both times, one when I was 26 and one when I was 33. Would you call me sick for responding to the little kindness of both,that made my 'little me' so fond so attached to both of them, for the hearing they gave me, the little moments of kindness that I had never gotten in my life before? No - you would understand.

You LOVED old T. Your 'little you' was attached to him big time. He was THE person in your life. Your 'little you' does not know all the reasonings of your big you, or of your new T, all she knows is how she feels and she MISSES him. I understand that.I think you understand that. I know your T understands that.

Please cut your 'little you' some slack. She is missing him BIG TIME. This is so hard for her.

Please - and I send hugs